The hardest part of owning a porsche is...

.....selling a porsche. As much as I hate to do it, and there are many reasons I HATE to do it, I'm seriously considering selling my 2002 996 C4S. How on earth do I determine a selling price? I know it's worth what someone is willing to pay, but I gotta start somewhere. Is there somewhere besides KBB to look for a starting price. The car is in good shape, tons of records, 77K, Factory sport exhaust. A few minor scratches that can (And may) be fixed, the stock wheels have some rash. I don't like haggling so I'd like to start with a realistic price that will make this as painless as possible. Thanks in advance for you help. Mickey

I feel your pain. The wifie wants me to "thin the herd". I"m resisting hard! GL

JMO but if your not mechanically inclined (maybe even if you are), I would consider having a PPI done then repair issues if any or be honest about cars condition. I probably would not do this on most other makes. To me as a buyer, I can live with honesty and repairing some issues versus a seller who is BS'ing about the cars condition. Others may say Im a completely ignorant fool about Porsches but it is an option to consider.

The hardest part of owning a Porsche is... all the girls that come and press their naked ***** against my windows. It leaves oil residue. Sheesh. Oh. That's not what you were looking for. I would check RL, cars.com and autotrader for cars with similar features and mileage to get an idea. Unfortunately, a lot of 996's are coming down in price. Based on a quick survey of cars.com, you could start with low 30's, and come down if it doesn't sell.

What City & State (or country). Makes a big difference that KBB won't be as current on. I would do a search on AutoTrader and Cars.com with a very objective eye. Be one of the lowest for your year and model with similar mileage. I always act like a buyer when I am seller.

The problem is that no banks today Finance cars older than 4 years. Do your buyer is going to be a guy who gas 30 large in his pocket. Your are going to have to compete as a Seller with everybody who is desperate to raise cash If you can fix every little thing and keep it detailed get a car fax and advertise

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Wondering who would finance with a bank? My CU will do a 8+ year old car at 3.74%. My Turbo was cash with a balance of $15K HELOC @2% . I can't see paying off a 2% loan with a CD earning 5%.

I didn't mean to imply the car has issues, it doesn't, other than normal wear and tear. This is one of the things I hate most about selling a car. What I consider a car in good condition someone else may think needs work, or is in perfect condition. I've owned a 914, a 356 replica, an SC and now the 996. I've worked on all of them to some extent. The 996 the least. I've changed the oil every 3k, put on new pads and rotors, new tires and replaced teh cooliant tank since buying it last year. The car has every single record of every thing ever done to it. I ran into the same issues with my SC. I had a binder full of records, detailed pics, etc... and to some it still wasn't enough. As a seller I think all you can do is represent the car as honestly as possible. I think its up to the buyer to arrange PPIs, inspections, etc... Hell, when I sold the SC I offered to drive it up to the guy who bought it in Cape Cod. He opted out of a PPI and flew in and drove it home, without so much as a hiccup, I might add. And the last I heard from him the car was still running like a clock. Same think with the replica. I saw the guy last year at an event and he couldn't thank me enough. Anyway, I guess what will happen is what will happen. I agree with the bank thing, I wouldn't even be considering a $30K + car if I had to borrow the money. CU, thats a different story. Probably a good way to go if needed. Thanks for the tip on the sites to look for comp pricing. Much appreciated. Annnnd, I always carry a pack of glass wipes to get rid of the residue

also most banks won't loan on cars with more than 100K miles or cars getting close to that number. i've noticed many porsche owners are either people who think they want to sell their car or know they want to sell their car - unfortunately most think they want to sell their car and have no business wasting buyers time with asking prices that are ridiculous and everyone in the forum cheerleading them to death i like to purchase drive and sell my 911's every year or 2 because its fun experiencing different cars - i like the hunt and enjoy traveling to california to buy and enjoying the drive home by myself without the family. great for clearing the head just my deal and its a horrible addiction which i've tried shaking but can't. when i sell a car i price it to sell - 1.5 yrs ago i sold my 99 996 w/114K miles for $16.5K and just did the IMS/clutch AOS/RMS - it was a very fair selling price and there was no back and forth BS and lots of people test driving my car - same holds true with my 82 911sc that i just sold in october - buyer wanted it because it was riced right. F_cking around answering the phone and wasting time selling a car that is overpriced must be fun for people who are lonely. do some research, check out the market and figure your car has a bit higher miles than most C4S's out there - the nice examples i've looked at were in the 50-60K miles range and selling prices(the price the owner would part with car) were in the low 30's. and these were really pristine examples in california.

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for a second there tim i thought maybe she wanted you to knock off one of her boyfriends?

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That's another reason to drive the Porsche in the winter. No sun screen oil on the breasts pressed against the windows.

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Bank of America Wells Fargo Etc... All more than happy to help out with a used car loan

Credit Unions will finance them with very little hassle. My old one was willing to finance mine when I bought it, but I ended up going with Pentagon Federal Credit Union and they didn't care about age ('99...bought last year) or miles (79k) when I bought it. The PO actually mentioned PenFed to me, when I already had everything done with my usual credit union because they were quite a bit cheaper and easy to work with...both of which they were. I have no affiliation with them, but if you get a serious buyer who is having any issue with getting his bank to finance based on age, have them check them out. GLWS, DS

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Yes, knowing and thinking are two different things. I guess I should have been specific. I KNOW I want to sell the car. I'm THINKING (or getting input) on a price. I'm with you 100% and I share your same "span of enjoyment" with these cars too. I'm kinda surprised I'm bailing so quickly on this one (only a year). Next up..... 912. My goal always is to keep it short and sweet. I thought I had my 356 replica and my SC priced fairly and still had to waste time with low-ballers and tire kickers. I love these cars. I hate selling them. Got a pretty good idea of what to list it at. Just gotta get some pics done and get it listed. Thanks to all for the help.

The hardest thing this morning... Watching my wife drive off to work in the 911 when I wanted to drive it today. Her car is in the shop and she insisted!

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i totally support and understand your thinking. enjoy the 912 - they are fun cars and a totally different animal. if you want some ideas of resale post some photos and options/miles/etc of your car or PM me- i'd be intersted in giving you my opinion of what it would SELL for and see if other agree.

I've never had problems getting a loan for a car up to 10 years old. There are a lot of factors beyond model year and mileage - and most of them have little to do with the car. As for price... CarGurus.com shows a 2002 C4S with those miles to have a market value of somewhere in the mid-30s, but most of the listings are below that value. My best guess (without knowing where you are located) would be to list around $32k and hold firm at $30k. Good luck.

Here's what I have for my intial posting. A gentleman contacted me last night and I sent him the info with an asking price. I told him I'd give him a chance to consider before posting it anywhere for sale. As soon as I hear from him I'll list it, or not, if he buys it. Keep in mind the engine was replaced by the factory at 41,856 miles so it ONLY HAS 35,000 miles on it. 2002 Carrera C4S Artic Silver (A few minor blemishes) Black Leather (Almost perfect. Normal wear on the driver seat bolster) 77,200 Advanced Technic Package ($3240 option) Self-Dim Mirrors and Rain Sensor ($695 option) Wheel Caps with Colored Crest ($175 option) CD with 6 disc changer ($350 option) Black Porsche Mats ($115 option) Sport Exhaust System ($2400 option) 3-Spoke Wheel ($565 option) *The above are the options listed on the original sticker. � The driver side seat will not fold forward. I think it�s a latch issue. � The wheels have some rash on them and would require refinish to be perfect. (there�s a complete set on ebay right now for $375) � There is a spot on the hood that has paint repair. It can only be seen at certain light angles, but it can be seen. ($100?) � There is a scratch on the driver side between the door and rear wheel well that would require professional repair. It is not to the metal. It is less than �� long ($100?) � The front clip has some minor nicks, dings, etc�.. from everyday driving. If you want a concourse front clip it could be removed and re-sprayed. ($200-$300?) � Front splitter is getting a tad ratty. I�m ok with it but someone else may want to replace it. ($465 replacement for factory. Aftermarket is $200) � There is a small nick in the windshield. It was there when I bought it and it hasn�t gotten any worse. Hardly noticeable but I�m mentioning everything. � One of the screw caps on the rear bumper guards is missing. ($??? Can�t find it listed anywhere) All records of all work ever done to the car are available. The engine was replaced by the factory at 41,846 miles (assuming it was the dreaded main bearing failure) so the chassis has 77K and the engine has 35K. I have replaced the battery, the pads and rotors all around, the coolant tank and cap, tires (Sumotomos) since buying the car one year ago. I installed H&R lowering springs: lowered the car ��. I have the original springs and would be happy to put them on if you prefer original ride height. (no charge) I invite you to speak to my indy tech, do a test drive, request specific pics, whatever you want. I�m more than happy to take the car in for a PPI (potential buyers expense). The car is driven. It is NOT a �garage queen�, as they say. Personally I feel the car is in great shape for an 11 year old car. That said, I�ve bought and sold a few Porsches in my life and I know everyone�s view differs. If you are looking for perfection I suggest you keep looking. If you�re looking for a well cared for car that was driven almost daily then look no further.

PM me price...... I may have to skip on a Targa and go with something like this!! Nice car!

I owned the exact 2004 car. I really miss it! Once you snip the grey wire on the sport exhaust relay, it really rips! GLWS!

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Yes it does I did the relay mod. It is music.

thats a very nice driver car - do you know what lowered suspension it has? also it would be helpful to know what type engine you have - is it an updated non-996 engine or is it the 996 engine with IMS issues or has the LN bearing been done? - this is important info. you need better photos and not pictures of the windshield wipers stopped on the windshield which shows it either sits or you drive it in the rain. good solid photos are a real +. i'd like to see the photos however IMHO, because mid - higher $30's is turbo money with no engine issues and a turbo of course, i would have to guestimate your car would sell and leave your driveway with good PPI in the very high 20's - like i said i have seen pristine 40-50K mile calif examples recently for $32-33K with perfect interior/exterior/wheels/all service records. wish you the best of luck on the sale and get it in the RL vehicle for sale forum, pelican porsche forum and local craigslist - be very careful regarding inquiries - lots of thieves lurking on all porsche forums - i can warn you of a couple of scumbag thieves if you PM me.

+1 .... There are too many freaky people out there wasting our time with endless useless questions, without any intention of buying your car.. I personally had a recent buyer agree to by my 996, everything was agreed through a gentlemen's agreement, furthermore he was referred by a fellow PCA member. Well the day we were to meet at the license bureau to transfer ownership and title, this after changing the date three times informed me that his wife wanted him to take a few days to think about buying the car.. Oh and he informed me he was ***** whipped when I was already waiting for him at the DMV. A few days later I called him and he en informed me he wasn't buying the car.. During this elapsed time I turned away another buyer who bought another car.. Long story longer, I got a really bad taste of dealing with scumbags and traded my 996 for my new to me GT3 from the Porsche dealer.. Yes I got less for my car, but it was worth it for me in the end as I was moving towards a new car more than living in the past.. I attend too many funerals... Best of luck, and hope you have a better experience ..

Where are the perfect turbos for mid 30s? I always hear of these mythical beasts, then when I go look at one despite "perfect records" and great pictures I find signs of paint work, worn interiors, and lurking gremlins. Not sure what the OP will get, maybe it will be high 20s, but one thing I've learned on forums is that for every person that exaggerates way high, there is another who goes way low. My car is a C2 and I was offered 25k last week from a local dealer through the KBB buying service and I have no historical records (second owner). If 25k is trade in for a C2 I've got to think a C4 would be similar. If private sale is really only $28k then it isn't worth the aggravation. Sell to a dealer for 27k and let them haggle with buyers

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i said nice turbos in the HIGH $30's there are so many variables regarding the value of these cars - mileage, records, condition, etc - i don't know much about the KKB buying service but i can't imagine a dealer buying a 2002 C2 coupe for $25K unless it has extremely low mileage and is pristine.

Here's a list of all of the 2002 C2 coupes sold in the last 24 months at one of the large nationwide wholesale dealer auctions: Read as Date, Auction Location, Type Sale, Sale Price, Mileage, Condition, Color, Number of cylinders & fuel type, Transmission Type 02/10/11 TAMPA Regular $25,000 64,937 Avg Gray 6G M 02/10/11 PHOENIX Regular $14,000 88,325 Avg SILVER 6G 6 02/24/11 CHICAGO Regular $16,500 104,261 Avg BLACK 6G M 03/17/11 PA Regular $28,250 38,760 Avg GRAY 6G 6 03/18/11 PA Regular $18,450 70,058 Avg WHITE 6G 03/22/11 TX HOBBY Regular $25,000 39,670 Avg BLUE 6G 6 03/30/11 ATLANTA Regular $27,000 38,889 Avg GRAY 6G A 04/28/11 ARENA IL Regular $22,400 79,979 Avg SILVER 6G 05/12/11 PA Regular $25,000 31,945 Avg BLUE 6G 08/19/11 PA Regular $22,200 56,006 Avg GRAY 6G P 10/20/11 RIVRSIDE Lease $14,500 114,765 Avg BLUE 6G A 10/21/11 FT LAUD Regular $23,500 51,960 Avg SILVER 6G A 01/05/12 PA Regular $29,200 29,875 Avg BLACK 6G A 03/01/12 CARIB Lease $28,000 52,879 Avg SILVER 6G 6 04/04/12 PALM BCH Regular $32,600 19,475 Avg RED 6G A 04/24/12 OHIO Regular $31,750 31,665 Avg SILVER 6G 6 05/01/12 OHIO Regular $30,000 29,933 Avg BLACK 6G 6 05/02/12 SAN DIEG Regular $19,500 58,078 Avg BLACK 6G 6 05/17/12 RIVRSIDE Regular $22,500 58,107 Avg BLACK 6G 6 06/21/12 PA Regular $21,000 61,942 Avg SILVER 6G 6 06/27/12 PALM BCH Regular $31,750 19,530 Avg RED 6G A 07/19/12 PA Regular $31,500 41,175 Avg SILVER 6G 6 10/04/12 PALM BCH Regular $24,800 49,988 Avg SILVER 6G A 11/16/12 FT LAUD Regular $25,000 73,644 Avg Black 6G A Here are the 2001 Turbo's - all shown as coupes: 11/20/12 NEVADA Regular $31,000 60,615 Avg BLACK 6G M 11/27/12 ORLANDO Lease $26,200 55,515 Below BLACK 6GT 6 11/28/12 MILWAUKE Regular $31,000 54,091 Avg Blue 6CY 6 12/28/12 FT LAUD Regular $30,000 67,235 Avg Yellow 6G M 01/31/13 TAMPA Regular $32,500 56,935 Above SILVER 6G A 02/06/13 DALLAS Regular $28,250 67,405 Below SILVER 6G A And finally, for the OP, the 2002 C4S coupes: 03/23/11 SF BAY Regular $18,500 108,896 Avg SILVER 6G A 05/04/11 SEATTLE Lease $28,700 56,087 Avg BLACK 6G 6 o 05/11/11 NJ Regular $24,000 22,968 Avg GRAY 6G M 07/01/11 PA Regular $37,000 18,804 Avg SILVER 6G M 11/16/11 DALLAS Regular $28,000 43,216 Avg SILVER 6G 6 03/01/12 PHOENIX Regular $29,300 54,575 Avg BLACK 6G 6 03/01/12 PA Regular $17,000 131,719 Avg SILVER 6G 6 06/22/12 NEVADA Regular $23,100 89,567 Avg GRAY 6G 6 08/28/12 RIVRSIDE Regular $25,000 79,358 Avg BLUE 6G A 09/13/12 ALBANY Regular $27,500 59,470 Avg BLACK 6G A 09/14/12 PA Regular $30,100 35,436 Avg SILVER 6G M 12/19/12 CEN FLA Regular $23,000 74,268 Avg SILVER 6G A Based on this data, for an average condition (compared to other Porsches, which is to say "well kept" but not perfect) 2002 C4S coupe with manual, 77k miles, I'd say dealer trade in around $25,000, private party sale around $27,000, buy it at an independent dealer for about $29,000.

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Its interesting that only 1 C2 sold for under $20K in 2012, while 4 sold under $20k in 2011. And the one that did sell under $20k was $19.5K. Stability in the 996 market, bad 2011 economy, more buyers in 2012 (better economy) or a combination of all 3 I suppose.

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thanks for taking the time to post these numbers - my guestimate of high 20's for his C4S is close to the mark - if the car has more wear it will probably fall into the $26-$27K category - all depends on mileage/condition

Awesome info!!! I've been getting a lot of PMs with interest. I just want to get proper pics and info before posting ad. So, the fact that the engine only has 35k on it has no influence on price? I know it's a unique situation but I thought it would give the car a little more of a "premium" being that it essentially is a very low mileage car for a 2002. It doesn't make much sense that all the "defects" lower the price but the one "bonus" has no affect.

I've had my car for sale for a while now and each time I get a call of inquiry I get a tinge of impending grief. I somehow got more attached than I thought and I know I'll miss it when gone. Folks call and sound interested but only one person has followed through and if the deal goes through, I know it's going someone who will appreciate it. Ambivalence is a bitch.

listening to everyone bitch about how costly repairs are and thinking, wtf were you thinking? You bought a PORSCHE

DId I miss something? Who's bitching about repairs?

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its always a crapshoot - but if you do your homework, good chance you limit the repair bills!

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mickey - not to get all crazy and start another IMS drama post but if you figure the engine was replaced at 41K miles and you stated that the engine most likely had an IMS failure, this doesn't really help the value of the car having the same replacement engine with 35K miles. there is a possibility the engine could have an IMS failure again since what i have read the iMS failures generally happen in the lower mileage range. in other words if the original engine was in the car with 77K miles and an upgraded bearing, i would be more inclined to buy the car because the odds of the engine having a failure is much lower. also too is the fact that many porsche buyers like having the original engine in the car - i think a win win would be to do the IMS and clutch for $2K and the car would sell for $3K more and sell a lot quicker? or is this just silly talk? should i be taking meds or go to bed?

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Hold firm - giving in will only breed resentment If the boys in the IHI thread find out you did not get pics.............

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Oh my GOD!!! This is why I despise selling these cars, there's just no way out. Low miles. High miles. Doesn't matter. IMS & new clutch in and I'll get "Well that's what you SHOULD do. Why should I, the buyer, have to do ANYTHING to the car after buying it?" What's next, post purchase guarantees? I've decided to get the curb rash fixed and fix the seat. Thats understandable. Beside that if someone wants a new Porsche I guess they should write the $130k check. The thing that cracks me up is these RS "Tribute" cars are getting $60-$70k. Really? I mean for heavens sake, a stock car has been touched, painted, changed, modded, etc... the curse in all other cases. (I'm kidding of course. I totally get it) I remember when I sold my SC I had put on SSIs, Rotas, M&K, RS seats, Rennshift shifter, Momo wheel, duck tail and some other things and all I heard was it wasn't stock. All those mods were worthless. As well as the top end. Buyers were telling me they could buy a stock SC with 90k miles on it for the same price, or less, than I was asking. Someone explained to me as "Porsche Math". I'll never understand why people expect a pristine 10,20,30 year old car. They either have to be "projects" or perfect. Ok. I'm done my rant now. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

You ought to be able to sell your Porsche without doing the IMSB replacement by negotiating your sell price slightly once you have a serious buyer. There are so many non Rennlist people who most likely don't even know about that issue. Stay positive, you'll sell it.

mickey - you'll have no problem selling your car - the C4S is a nice design and i've always been crazy about those wheels - clean it up, take great interior/exterior photos and post it on the vehicle for sale forum, peilican forum CL and i'd also do auto trader - considering it has the paint touch up on the hood and you say its somewhat noticeable, be happy with a $27K sell price but ask $29.5K - keep it below $30K and you should get lots of interest. i'd really like to see the photos when you have them ready - please update this thread so we can check them out. if you ask any more you will be competing with pristine examples in the $31-$33K range with low miles i am sure you will sell it and have fun with the 912 hunt. heres my 912 back in 2006 on my drive back from the purchase in salt lake city - silver/black of course!!

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Hey Groovzilla, do you know a shop in the PNW that will do IMS and clutch for $2K? Thanks

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i am certain Akers porsche on capitol hill will do it for $2K - cost of clutch is $500-$600, IMS bearing $650 and $800 labor - tell them william said hi.

Groove, that pic is awesome!!! I'm actually starting to get a little freaked out about buying a 912. I think I'd enjoy the car, and like all of my previous cars, I'd take good care of it and likely improve on what I bought. The scary part is knowing I'll probably want to sell it in a few years and I can't go through another "porsche selling masacre". I'm torn because I LOVE these cars but the selling process is just too much for me to take. Is it me, or does everyone out there that buys and sells these cars take the hit. And I often do a lot of the work on my cars so I'm not even paying all the labor. Here�s what I�ve found online � All the below cars are 2002 Porsche 996 C4S (it is not specified if IMS was done in any of these listings) 33,450 miles - $42,995 53,000 miles - $35,999 60,000 miles - $31,888 99,000 miles - $26,500 sold 31,800 miles - $39,900 33,000 miles - $35,000 17,000 miles - $37,000 58,000 miles - $34,999 78,000 miles - $29,999 (2 of them) What am I missing here? There doesn�t really seem to be any rhyme or reason to these prices. I�m just not clear on why I should list my car @ $30,000 and take less when most cars are listed way higher. I mean, there�s a car listed at $37K with 17,000 miles on it, but one with 58,000 miles on it is only $2K less? I know I may seem like a pain in the *** here, but I really want to make this as painless and simple as possible without being unrealistic on either end of the price. And since these types of cars are sometimes bought from a distance how can anyone be so sure the higher priced cars are in any better shape than the lower priced ones? The post I put up on my car about the �problems� was me being very honest. I would venture to say that my car, once the wheels are repaired and the seat is folding again, is about as good as one could hope for in a 11 year old car. How do I go about convincing a potential buyer that they are getting a well taken care of car. I have EVERY record of EVERYTHING ever done to the car. It has Porsche Sport Exhaust. It has an engine with only 35,000 miles on it. Why would these things not bring a premium price? I feel like no matter what a car has, or doesn�t, it makes no difference. What�s the secret to selling a good car at a fair price without being low-balled.

Quote "What�s the secret to selling a good car at a fair price without being low-balled." One secret to selling, well it's not really a secret, is to just list it at a price you think is fair and reasonable instead of talking about listing it!!!

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Point taken. You're right. I just hate opening the gates of hell I'll take my lumps. Stop whining. And post it.

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Maybe I can provide a point of reference as a I spent the better part of Oct through Dec looking at MKII's. C2s and 4s. Coupes and Cabs. Ended up with a 2002 C2 with about 31K miles, full service records, consistently driven about 3K miles per year by single owner, virtually no cosmetic flaws on interior/exterior, new rubber and brakes, IMS and RMS installed at local Indy by seller as part of the deal along with new filters and oil change, no mods. Paid $35,000 which I felt was acceptable deal considering all factors. Others may have different opinion on my purchase but in the end its the value that a given buyer sees in a car rather than what a seller believes the value to be. In other words as a seller you need to distance yourself from the object. Not easy to do but..... Based on what I was seeing in the marketplace your car will be competing against very nice MKII c4 examples with considerably lower miles on the overall package that are priced anywhere between $20-40+K. Its really a matter of where you feel your vehicle fits within that range all emotions aside. Given your statements about the condition of the vehicle IMO a list price of between $25-27 is reasonable and I would use the few easily fixable items (seat, wheel rash, IMS) as negotiating items off of that price. As leaters101 said.....just post it and see what happens. Good luck with the sale and your next purchase.

If anything, 912 pricing is rising for decent examples anyway. The 996s have only been heading in one direction. 912s used to be the under powered, affordable, Porsche, that few thought were the better choice than a 911. Now they're coming back and prices are rising. Unless your 996 is a GT3,Turbo, or GT2 we may level off price wise, but it'll be sometime before interest causes higher pricing.

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mickey - a seller can ask all he wants so that above list is not very accurate - got to see what they seller for. the secret is to buy the car with the sole purpose in mind of selling - i know it sounds "flipperish" however this has been my train of thought for years. i always buy a porsche for what i think/know i can sell it for in a year or 2 and not lose my *** provided i don't have any major repairs. of course you can always do what 95% of the sellers on these forums do and price your car way above market value, but you don't sound like an unhappy lonely person without friends who looks forward to several phone calls from strangers just to be disappointed nobody will pay you what you want for your car. of course there are people like "IVANGENE" who are very spiritual and have god like gifts and can actually predcit the marketplace at any given time in the future - i always PM him when i'm about to make a purchase just to be sure its the right deal

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Prices for 996's are all over the map... A couple of thoughts from my recent 996 search: Location/Market: What area are you in? During my recent search, I saw lots of nice looking cars advertised in FL and CA, very few in CO. Inspecting/vetting out of town cars can be a hassle as well as expensive. Your local market might have fewer buyers, but you also might have the only clean C4S being marketed. I ended up buying a local car that was a perhaps a bit more expensive very best deals I saw advertised, but was able to thoroughly inspect the car, talk to the original selling/servicing dealer and indy that had maintained the car more recently. It was much less hassle than fly/drive or shipping the car. Location/Weather: C4S's can demand a premium in areas that get some snow... Personally, I opted for a C2 and have no desire to take the Porsche out in the snow, but plenty of people here love to put snows on their C4's and drive them all winter, again boosting price for that particular model in CO, for example. Condition: I looked at cars that sounded very clean as advertised that I found quite tatty, and ones that didn't have great pictures, not super well described that were pristine. Particularly the interiors... For me, this is a significant swing on the value scale, even on cars that might sound nearly identical on a description. Replacement Engine: Personally, I don't put additional value on a factory replacement engine... I'd rather have a 75K car with a perfectly running, documented, never removed for service original engine than a car with a dealer installed replacement motor. Others might have a different perspective, but for me it is actually a price negative that it has a replacement motor. Comparing to the 'best deal ever': Lots of price advice I see above is against 'fantastic deals' that people have heard about, often without ever seeing the car. Clean, mid-mile 996 turbo's for $35K? Yup, I looked at one (online) in FL, it sounded great. I decided against flying down to check it out, but it did sell pretty quickly. It could have been amazing car at a fantastic price, or it could have raised lots of flags when I saw it in person. Doesn't matter either way... Those deals don't come up every day and you don't have to compete against them. Just don't price your car at $10K over market and have the ad copy read "priced to sell! won't last" when it's been on the market for six months. Comparing to wholesale auction prices: Wholesale auction cars have risks for dealers that are buying those cars, and that is factored into the price. The auction company usually does an inspection, but these are as is/where is cars. Buyers are going to get burned every once in a while and the sale prices reflect that. If you are selling privately, ignore auction prices. If you are trading in a car to a dealer, then they are somewhat relevant. Don't trivialize repair costs: Some people are going to see your estimates of $100 to repair a scratch or paint defect and $375 to rectify curb rashed wheels as fantasy. When I see ads underestimating repair costs like that, it definitely turns me off. If you want to list cost for replacement parts, cool, but top quality bodywork and paint repair is ridiculously expensive to do right. My price: Haven't seen your car... But overall, I saw *zero* local 2002-2004 C4S's in very clean condition with mid miles under $30K. I saw a ton of C4 Cab's, mostly with Tiptronics... Tons of them out there and not much love for them, plenty of bargain prices. But a good C4S (manual transmission?) is, in my experience, much harder to find. If you aren't overstating the condition of the car (those paint defects you mention would definitely concern me without detailed pictures), I think an ask $33K take $31K is probably a relatively quick sale if you advertise it on the forums and your local craigslist. Some of the prices suggested above? You could probably sell it in a day and have multiple buyers lined up as backups. Secret to selling: Take lots of high quality pictures! . Maybe even a walk-around video and a start/drive video. Describe all the details. Describe the service history if you have it. Describe the ownership history if you have it. Take a picture of the option code sticker. Take a picture of the owners manuals if you have them. Example... You post one fairly grainy picture above. I immediately want to see a picture of the defects you mentioned... The scratch, the wheel rash, the bolster wear, wear on the dash buttons & carpet, the ratty splitter, tire condition. If you are using craigslist, use a photo hosting service and link to the additional high resolution pictures instead of limiting yourself to the four low-res craigslist pictures. Host the videos on youtube and link to them. Not only will you interest more buyers, but you will waste far less of your time answering questions on the condition of the car. PS: I ended up with a 2004 C2, 55K miles at $26,500. Pristine, 100% unmolested, locally owned and serviced, cool color.

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you could be my twin - your above definition is about as close to what i have relayed in several posts however i would have to say people in colorado may desire C4S but the value of a C4S from colorado is only worth a premium to someone living in that state. someone shopping for a C4S will not be looking for cars that are driven on salty roads like colorado/north east/etc. can't beat a garaged unabuzed california, tx or az car for cleanliness - unless they are stored in climate controlled enviornments and washed after use, cars in florida tend to be an oxidation nightmares especially the brakes and undersides being attacked from the salt air if the car is from the coast. auction cars should be thought of as cars with issues - i bet 50%(or more) of auction cars are being sold for some unspecified problems - a one man show local dealer in seattle purchased a 99 996 at auction and it turned out to have intermix issue - he tried selling it locally for months and it finally most likely was sold at another auction to some drunk moron thinking he got the deal of the century.

All good, sensible info, pfbz and Groove, and everyone else as well. I do very much appreciate it. I get lost in what I've posted or written because I've been posting here, another forum, and answering quite a few emails, but I've decided to get the wheels refinished and fix the seat and then post the car. As soon as we get some decent weather I'll get some good pics for the ad. I have a very good idea of what I'll put it up for (thanks to the helpful info here). Again, thanks to everyone for their help.

I know it's almost been a year ago since this thread was posted. Just curious about what happened. Thanks