Realistically speaking, if someone made 35K a year and is single...

... can they afford to maintain a Porsche C2 or C4, assuming they already have 25K saved up and bought the car outright?

Honestly, no. You should be focused on saving and other priorities, IMHO. You're in your 20s I'm assuming. Even if you could afford to purchase, you will probably most certainly have problems keeping it running. You'd be one thrown rod away from financial catastrophe. Buy a Miata and learn how to drive it fast. Save the 911 for your 30s or 40s. You need something to look forward to anyway.

IF: You dont own a home with taxes, insurance, etc. You dont eat. You have your own shop and tools.

TheLastTempler, we owe you an explanation. This 911 may be over 10 years old but insurance, parts and labor does not take that into account. It would be like maintaining the car when it was new, maybe more, because lots of parts are worn. You can save a lot from DIY and non-factory parts but you still get Porsche 'tax'. A seemingly similar part for an Audi would be half the price by comparison. Had this car the reliability of the average Toyota, you could risk it. Unfortunately, it does not and there are documented evidence that repairing a catastrophic failure could cost one's home, if not marriage. I got my first 911 at around 30, one that was 20 years old and with significant help from Dad. As Gogito said, learn to drive very well. The 911 isn't easy to drive fast and it's too expensive to be a learner car. You'll be glad when you were able to catch that first slide ..........

I bought my first Porsche at the age of 26. It was a 2000 c2 cab. At the time I was making about 40k a year, i had financed it so i was making payments on it. I do most of the work myself so i guess that really matters if you can afford it or not. I would say go for it. You only live once. If that's whats gona make you happy then do it.

Honest answer is no.

Honest answer, yes. 1. What is your budget for the purchase price? 2. Are you doing the work yourself or going to have a mechanic do it? 3. Are you looking ahead to possible repairs? German cars suck for maintenance (often, expensive, random over-engineered parts that fail, etc); so if your #2 is mechanic and #3 is no. Then you might seriously want to look at a Corvette. SUPER cheap to maintain and virtually nothing breaks on them.

Better to invest the money now and grow future income.

Life is short. thats all i got.

Doable?... yes. Wise at that age and income?... no.

If you are young and have no other real obligations, sure why not.. but maybe a Boxster would be a better entry level p-car. Fun to drive, chicks still dig it (thats why you what it, right ?) .Last thing you want is for your MK1 C2/C4 to be sitting in the driveway because you need to save up to get a repair done.

No; $8K normal used car and focus on your career. Buying a used car that runs more than your annual income is idiotic.

I think 996_north has the right idea. How about a Boxster to get you started. It's a great entry into the Porsche realm and will get you comfortable with ownership...still a damn fine car.

I just bought my 996 from a 26-yr old who owned it for less than two years. He had to sell it because he couldn't afford the repairs and upkeep. I put $2,400 into the car in the first two weeks of ownership and then spent $1,000 on new tires a month later. Sure, you might find a better car but the point is the same, most used Porsche's will require some amount of maintenance or repairs that the previous owner deferred because he knew that he was selling the car. So, you need to be able to afford $2000-$3000 a year ($250 per month EVERY month) for maintenance and repairs. If you can do that, you should be ok. Parts and labor are very expensive and they all add up - even if you do 90% of the work yourself, you'll still spend this much. A Boxster is not a better idea. The only real difference between a used 996 and a used Boxster is the purchase price and there is quite a bit of overlap at the upper Boxster end and the lower 996 end of the pricing scale. The issue for someone like yourself in owning a used Porsche isn't so much in the initial purchase, its in the maintenance and repairs. The Boxster costs just as much to maintain and repair as a 996 (I own both) because many, many of the Boxster parts are the same 996 parts and even if they are not shared with the 996, they are just as expensive. If you want a truly affordable sports car, buy a Miata (I have one of those too).

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this x100. First big repair bill and you will wish you did not listen to the only live once crowd. I am all for having fun and living to the fullest, but on 35k per year, no way.

Buy a decent Boxster for under $10k. Save the other $15k for a rainy day. If something catastrophic happens you're only out $10k. I used a Boxster S as a daily driver for 4 years. Had a 996 as well for a short while. I liked the way the S handled better thought it looked better too. JMHO. Most repairs are do it yourself with some Harbor Freight/Sears tools. Do note Boxster repair bills are just the same as the 996 -- you just have another $10-15K saved up from the delta initial purchase to offset them. Mike

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Sure, based on the numbers for my C2..... Over 5 years, $350 for new coolant tank, and $900 for an alternator issue. At the end of the day any car will need $$ for maintenance, and any car, regardless of manufacturer can cost large. So, can you afford it, yes, should you buy, only you can make that desicion.

My 2002 C4S has ~125K on the odometer. If I look at maintenance and wear items (including tires), I spend about $5,000 per year. Some years it's higher, some years it's lower. If that works for your budget, then go for it.

I don't like the Boxster look (not the ones before the Cayman debuted) Is a first gen (2006-2008) Cayman or Cayman S a more affordable (maintenance and repair upkeep per year) car than a C2/C4 996? I don't do any car work at all as I know of none (I'm not a gearhead or mechanically inclined), and have always taken my used car (when I had it) to the shop to fix or check up, etc.

My late 20's and early 30's when I was cash-in-pocket poor I owned a 924 (piece of crap), 914 (rust bucket), then a 944 (awsome car). All paid for. Of course I did all the work on them myself. Now, a 944 can be purchased for a pretty low amount of $$ but they are older now so repairs may be more frequent. It would be a good idea for any other sports car to learn some basics like changing filters, belts, oil, brakes, brake fluid, etc. and leave any shop repairs to the big stuff. Start by pricing out all the tools you need and if that hurts it may be a good sign a Porsche is not the way to go right now. I'm still poor (and dumb, owning an airplane doesn't help) but when I purchased my 996 it had 56K miles on it. The first thing I did was do all the general maintenance stuff like filters, oil, serpentine belt, plugs and coils, and brakes. Just the parts alone for that were about $600. If I had taken it to a shop my bill could have easily been $1200. As an earlier poster mentioned, figure $250/mo for maintenance and repairs, or be aggresive and call it $200/mo. Instead of putting it into repairs on a car that will only go down in value over time, put it in the bank religiously every month and see where that gets you in 20 years. I learned a long time ago to pay myself first. Get a more reliable sporty car (used: Miata, Hyundai Genisis Coupe, BRZ/FRS in a year, etc) for now especially if you will be depending on shops to do the work. Take them to DE's and learn to drive them fast. You will have lots of fun and able to afford it.

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That would be my answer as well.

If you are single, you probably will have to factor in the number of hot babes who want to date you and how much that will cost. These cars are chick magnets and you'll probably be in debt up to your neck due to unforeseen entertainment costs.

It can depend entirely on where you live. You can rent a nice duplex with a two car garage in my area for $600 a month. A C4 with snow tires, it could be your only car too.

@TheLastTemplar I'm pretty much in the same boat that you are, not sure your age but I'm 22, single, no kids, not a lot of bills, making close to $40k a year. Almost a year ago when I was 21 I bought a 2001 C2 for under trade in value and paid cash for it so no car payments. I had a lot of maintenance records so knew what it may need and what was already done on it. In the 4-10 thousand miles before I bought it the clutch was done, all 4 pads and rotors, alternator, drive belt, front tires, left radiator and a few other things. First month I had it I did a small tune up and had the dealership go over the car ($500). I was recommended to do a coolant flush so went ahead and did that along with the water pump the second month ($450). Month after that I got some new Michelin PS2's off craigslist for $300 on the rear. Also found out that the RMS was leaking so did that along with the upgraded IMS the next month ($1700). After the 4th month everything was up to par on the car. Each month after that I started doing some mods to the car. New Victor black wheels ($1,100), next month got window tint ($250), month after got a K&N CAI kit ($270), painted side markers black ($7), and some smaller stuff. Went a couple months with no problems or mods. Last month I took the front bumper off and cleaned out the condensers and radiators ($0). Next month I will attempt to do the motor mounts, spark plugs and spark plug tubes myself just for kicks. Having free access to Alldata really comes in handy as the plugs may be a little more difficult than my 68 Camaro. I have enough money on the side to cover any big repairs, and also have another car to drive if it needs to be in the shop for any extended period of time. Luckily I have had no problems besides the RMS leak so I am very happy that I got the car. Also, the girls love it haha. So in your case I would say get a online subscription to Alldata so you can do the small jobs yourself, and if you can find one similar to how I did with maint. records and a good PPI then I would say go for it!

If there's a will, there's a way. I live in a very expensive neighborhood near the mountains and have for almost 17 years. My neighbors are MDs, CEOs, profession sports players and the like. I make a fraction of what they do, but make it all work. I paid cash for my home, I pay no consumer interest, I mow my own lawn and wife cleans our house, unlike our neighbors. I am self-reliant, fix my furnace, fix my cars and my faucets. Life is good!

all depends on your priorities. Are you ok skipping vacations or nights out? $35k after taxes and necessities doesn't leave much over. I like other stuff besides cars, so I would not make that sacrifice

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More people need to live like you do. if they did, there never would've been a mortgage crisis. Too many people try to impress their friends/neighbors/coworkers and end up ruining themselves in the process. To the OP, I say buy a nice, cheap Mustang with a V8.

I maintain a 996TT and a 964 on not much more than that plus my 2 houses. I am a couple years away from full retirement so choose to only work part time these days. If you do most the work yourself it normally wont cost much more than any other older used car.

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Depends upon the car. If you don't drive the car much, if you have good luck with the car, if you don't own it long, the car can be as cheap to operate as a lesser car. These cars are rather expensive new. They cost to maintain and keep up like their initial cost, not what they cost when bought used. Even though my '02 Boxster is 11 years old the dealer charges me the same hourly labor rate ($150/hour) as he does for someone who brings in a new 2013 Boxster for service. You probably need to develop the habit of taking the longer view. That $25K if invested wisely and making/earning say 5%/year can double in 14 years. Then double again in another 14. So one way of looking at this purchase the $25K you spend today costs you maybe $100K in less than 30 years from now. You are probably too young to consider retirement but young is when you should start thinking about retirement. I know two elderly people who retired in their early 60's. One, the man, is now in his mid '90's and has been retired longer than he worked once he got out of college. They were getting by quite nicely on their fixed benefits pension (common in their day but rare nowadays) and Social Security coupled with very nice retirement insurance benefits. But recently their living costs have gone up to $6K a month for assisted care. This is considerably more money than they make per month now. Part of that $6K/month is being paid for from their savings. While it is true one only lives once that also means one doesn't get a chance to go back and fix a screwup. Fortunately for this couple they did things right and saved and invested and have sufficient money to last them for as long a time as they have left. I can't begin to imagine their misery -- and that of their family -- had they for instance taken that the we only live once mind set to heart and what condition they would be in now. This is not to say they didn't enjoy life but it was done with the future in mind, not only the present. My rule for buying cars -- my only real real weakness -- is the neither the purchase nor the upkeep can hurt and there can't be any worry on my part afterwards. When I was making $35K/year a Porsche was out of the question. Nowadays since I make considerably more than that I can afford a Porsche. But I have tucked away a good sum of money for my retirement and continue to add to it on a regular basis. That came before, and comes before, the Porsches.

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Buying **** you can't afford because of #YOLO is fastest way to poverty. Max out your 401K, go to college, get a career. After that you should start thinking about toys. There's a term for this, actually

If I made $35k a year, and didn't live in my parent's basement, the last thing I would buy would be a Porsche. There is plenty of time for that. Chicks dig guys with money. Not broke guys who drive a 911.

Pretty much impossible to determine without some idea of your current cash flow and debt, but should be more than doable assuming you don't expect to pull the car into the shop every time you need something checked out or an oil change... If you don't want to or don't think you are able to work on your own car, I'd skip it. This budget should be more than sufficient...: $20K for the car (and makes sure you are patient and get a GOOD one!) $1,000 for tools and a service manual $1,250/yr for parts and supplies $1,250/yr towards a reserve for large, unexpected repairs.repair reserve. Some years it will be much more, some years $0. Shave $2,500/yr ($50 each week) off your current discretionary budget and your good to go!

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I have owned Porsches usually 2 at a time for 30+ years and have never needed to stick money away in those amounts. Service manuals are on line and you can borrow about any one time use tool from most big box auto stores. You dont need $1000 a set ratchets to work on these cars. $50 off each week

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Yup. Unless that $35k is a job you absolutely love, invest the time & money in yourself, and you'll be able to comfortably afford the car you want.

If you have to ask the question, you already know the answer. Buy experiences first, not things. Take $3,000 of your money and a week of your time, fly to Stuttgart and go visit the Porsche & Mercedes museums. That's a trip you'll remember and enjoy the rest of your life and won't cost you a dime in maintenance. I've filed over 11,000 bankruptcies in my career and seen lots of people who've regretted buying stuff (rental property, timeshares, expensive vehicles). No one regrets taking a dream trip.

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I was trying to be generous with the amounts... A $1,000 tool budget if perhaps you have nothing and you want to buy semi-decent sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers, torque wrenches, measurement tools, pry bars, hammers, pliers, punches, other general hand tools, small toolbox, magnetic parts trays, some specialty tools, floor jack, jack stands, small compressor, work light, etc.

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Or double that budget and get yourself a nice impact wrench too.

if your making 35k you should be driving a Yugo

When I was growing up in the early 70's a friend of mine bought a used Lotus Europa. What a bleeping nightmare keeping that POS running. He didn't frigging care he was a God damned TEENAGER driving a frigging LOTUS!!! I say it was money well spent. All my cash back then was wasted on beer and weed. My car? A 1960 Bugeye Sprite. Go for it!!

You know the answer. Sit down with a financial specialist and make a plan, both short and long term. Then, with realistic budget in hand, figure out what the coolest car is that you can afford. There are lots of attractive options, including used Miatas, Mustangs, and VW GLI/GTIs. Most of us started there and gradually moved up. There are no cheap Porsches.

I think one "could", and I believe it was a question of could rather than one of should. I had my first 911 at 20 and I think I made $2.70 per hour and chose to work part time. I lived in a mobile home in Tampa and almost 40 years later it still stands out as possibly the absolute best time of my life. Times were quite simple for me then, as for me, I think I was born with the disease of automotive addiction, it drove my frugal Father nuts. He often reminded me of the homes I could have owned and the money I could have had in the bank if not for all of the Mustangs, Corvette, Saab Turbo, Porsches, etc. My Fathere ended up in a skilled nursing home and suffered for years, his most severe source of agitation? That instead of "living" he saved for someday when, and for him that day was in a wheel chair and I don't think he ever came to terms with exchanging the majority of what he had saved for so-called life time "care". I wasn't into cars for the "chicks" or for the attention of others, I just enjoy the hell out of them. Value add forty years ago that I didn't anticipate, yet thoroughly enjoyed, was the girls who dug the Porsche, cruising to the beach, and then going to my "mobile home" to round out the day. You know, not one ever seemed to mind going to my trailer, and usually on a frequent basis. I sometimes wondered if I was driving an MG Midget or something of that sort if any of them would have ever learned where I lived. I hope that wouldn't be the case, but............. And I actually know a few people who are driving 2012 911 variants, making obscene amounts of money, and in my not so humble opinion, a Yugo would be too classy of a machine for them. You are not what you drive, what you earn, or where you live. And the only time you can truly count on is right now. Plan as you might, too much is beyond your control, ask me how I learned that one.

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That is VERY impressive-- the fact you own a 911 at only 21. Freaking amazing and congrats. I am a few years older than you and have been HORRENDOUS with my finances and don't really know how to save. I understand the concept of saving, but I am addicted to spending. However, I am disciplining myself and going back to school and hopefully get a 50K job after 12 months of schooling, assuming I graduate/find a new job right after. your post is a relief, since it IS possible to get one without being in a financial hole or ruin.

Not recommended. I have spent $3000 in the last 2 months, and I'm sure many $1000's more over next year. My first Porsche was a very inexpensive 914 at 19 that I drove for one year, then took a summer to fix rust problems and paint 14 times with black lacquer. Made money on it. Next Porsche was a 74 911 Targa at 26, got a deal, but only because it needed a ton of work, by that time I had time to tear it down and repaint it. Figured I would buy one that needed work and budgeted for the tools as well. Never really drove it though due to electrical problems and getting married. Made money on it when I sold it (not running). Then life and family and career and budgets got in the way. Next was a 964 Carrera 4 at 43. Spent very little on it, and made money on it when I sold it. Bought the C4S at 49, great car, but I've never spent more money on any car that I've ever owned...that said, I can afford to have the work done nowadays. Some lessons here... I did spend a lot of years in between ownership, wishing I had a Porsche, dreaming of the 911 that would be sitting in my driveway. Start cheaper, used nice 944S or similar, under $10K. Plan to do most of the maintenance yourself. Own it and drive it until career lets you afford more car! Plus you will either get the true Porsche bug, or forget about it.

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so you realize you're horrendous with your finances, but now you want to stretch yourself with a 911 on the hopes that you'll get a higher paying job after school. go to school, get the job...THEN buy the car.

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This. Use the car as your goal to get through school and get the better job. Once you have accomplished both, then look for a 996. There is no reason to make a poor decision now that could negatively impact you for years down the road.

What would Suze Orman say?

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Don't sell yourself short. You can't be all that bad at saving if you managed to save up 25k on a 35k/yr salary. I still wouldn't buy a Porsche if I was you, though. Of course, each of us has different priorities but consider how important freedom is to you before you commit to a large financial obligation. How much do you value having the option to say "F U" to anyone whose face you don't want to see ever again, including your boss/employer? How much do you value having the means to take a nice trip with someone fun wherever you want on a whim? How much do you value the ability to enter into a screaming deal/purchase/investment when/if it presents itself to you? (You won't be able to take advantage of such opportunity with only $1000 in your bank account). Consider the above before you buy the Porsche.

Part of the issue is to understand why you want a Porsche, determine whether you have the means to handle the unexpected and decide if your environment is conducive to owing one. - If you want track/autocross time, then you'd be in a situation of dedicating your resources to getting the car with little chance of meaningful upgrades or keeping up with tires. Starting with a Miata now that you can play with and have room to customize for your track interests might be a better alternative. - If you mainly just want to have one, be seen in one....that's a different issue. - Be realistic about reserves. You'd hope you wouldn't use them, but the old wisdom for performance cars was to have at least half the value of the car in savings to handle the unexpected. But also expect that you'll be paying extra for all parts & maintenance (which is based on the car's new value, not what you paid....which is why there are a LOT of used Rolls Royces for sale needing maintenance). - Also be realistic about where you live & drive. The kids/crooks/jealous-tenants that would never look twice at a Miata might see a Porsche as great sport. I got my first 911 at 23. There really is nothing like them. But when I decided to go grad school, I sold mine as I knew I wouldn't have the funds nor the living environment to care for it properly. I miss it to this day (despite having had several since then), but I still did the right thing at that time. So, it's the old struggle of emotion over logic. But that fact that you're even asking this means that you have justifiable concerns. (Is she pretty enough that you don't mind spending money on her that you'd rather spend elsewhere and put up with her being a diva?)

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FYI, I bought a Lamborghini instead of a house. Financially, according to others' I shouldn't have spent so much on a car. But I wanted it and I don't want a house at this point in my life, so I bought the car and I couldn't be happier with my decision. Put your priorities in front, not how others' think you should spend your money. Porsche maintenance (or any German for that matter) is the most expensive of any country. So you have to budget that. Look around in your area for a good independent shop that works on Porsches because you really want to avoid the dealer hourly rate. To top the maintenance, the 996 is notorious for the engine letting go on a whim, which is why 996's are a gamble compared to other cars in the price range. Boxster has the same issues as 996, so don't 'downgrade' to a car you don't like that has the same requirements to keep it on the road. In my honest opinion, for $30k, I would also look at: 996T Corvette C5/C6 GenII Viper NSX M3 135 BRZ 370Z SKY/Solstice turbo Mustang with Track Pack or Boss I would avoid: Boxster/Cayman TT RX8 G35/37 Challenger Camaro anything you really don't want

I forgot to add, a 996 isn't a big risk. There is the engine failure issue. But if you replace the clutch/IMS/RMS/slave cylinder & oil/trans & brake fluid change right when you get the car; it will be hassel free for the most part and it shouldn't require much besides filters, fluids, and normal consumables. Also, financially, the 996 prices are low. I don't know how much lower they will go, but at this point in their age, they have already taken the big drop. So whenever you go to sell it, you will not have as much of a loss as a newer car.

Gonna be totally blunt: Im guessing that $35k is around $20/hr? If so you should be looking at a $5000 used civic or leasing a new civic, not sinking $25k into a potential money pit. You dont see many folks making $20/hr buying $25-30k cars for a reason...its because they cant afford it. If you do see it its because they arent paying mom room and board to live in the basement or theyve recently inheritted money.

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Managing my finances well is the main reason I have been able to afford my cars. My Porsche is both a toy and an investment. When I sell it I will most likely get a good amount more than I paid for it. In the last 6 years since I turned 16 I have had 15 cars, and with each making a profit of $2,000-$16,000 PROFIT on each sale. I now own an 01 C2 and a 1968 Camaro RS/SS outright, with more than enough money in savings to pay my house rent for a year without working incase anything happens. My monthly bills (rental house, insurance, food, entertaining the ladies, ect.) is about half my monthly income so I have a good amount of money going into savings and investing. Because of that, I am still able to splurge money when I feel. Write out a financial plan that works for you and stick to it for awhile before you make a purchase like that so you can see what your able to afford. I would also like to add that I don't live with the parents nor had any money given to me to help purchase my cars. Keep in mind all cars will require maintenance and repairs. I've had other domestic vehicles that I had spent more in repairs than I have on my Porsche. The cost differences on repairs and maintenance on a Porsche compared to owning something like a Mustang are well worth the joy of owning these cars. Most of the routine maintenance you can easily do yourself on these cars as well. If you have to have a Porsche, try finding a higher mileage 996 that's been well taken care of for around $15-18k. Then put the remaining amount of the $25k away for emergencies.

I think it depends whether you want a long term hobby or a daily driver really. I bought my black 928 s4 when I was 22 and it has been a great hobby over the years, giving me and my friends a lot of challenges and fun. It's parts are more expensive and it's harder to work on in my opinion than the 996, so the 996 would have been a better choice had in been in my price range back then. The first thing I did was get the workshop manuals and pet. It was such fun learning how to work on a car (it was my second car after a fiat cinquecento, which I continued to use as an inexpensive daily driver). As long as you have the apptitude for repairs, somewhere to store it when necessary if it's off the road, and commissioning / storing correctly. I still have my 928 and after 15 years I can't imagine selling it now. Over the years I've rebuilt the engine, gearbox, suspension, interior... Everything was a first time experience for me, done carefully by the book, never had a problem. I have a 996 now as my daily driver but have a lot of good memories over the years from the 928, so my advice is to think about why you want it, consider the compromises you might have to make, and whether you'd want to keep it indefinitely. I always wanted the 928 when I was a kid and I'm still happy taking it out for a blast,had it not been the right car though and I'd not considered it a hobby my view of the effort and expense would be different. Good luck!

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Quit renting. Go buy a house.

depends on the car. My buddy has a 996 c2 and makes 40K a year. Its super clean and he can afford it just fine. I think on a 5 year loan his monthly payments are like $350. Very low in my opinion. LOL at the buy a miata and learn to drive it fast. dont do this.

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Ah yes that is my next step. Once I sell the Camaro and our lease is up I'm using the money for the down payment on a house and leasing out a couple rooms to some friends. I plan on flipping and renting out houses on the side instead of flipping cars, already got my real estate license On a side note: Anyone interested in buying a freshly restored 1968 Camaro RS/SS with a built 454? I will be putting it up for sale in about 3 weeks. PM if interested.

No, you should not. You've been asking questions like this for weeks fighting your instincts which are clearly telling you that this is a risky purchase for you. You know its true. Porsches aren't going away. Save your money and put it into something more long term. Buy the Porsche when you don't have to worry so much about whether a few grand will break the bank. -Eric

I have made a few dumb choices and i am on the fence on this one. If you have never worked on a car before, i would seriously say no. I am very efficient with fixing cars and have saved tens of thousands of dollars and making only 35k a year would make me nervous. I would recommend buying an older honda or toyota product and then learn to repair them since they cost much less to fix.

its just money? right?

Quotes source post: 10558650

Ok, I'm one of those guys who bought a Porsche (86' 3.2) at 21 four years ago, and am running my second Porsche (99' 996) for almost a couple of years now. I've wanted a Porsche ever since I was a kid. While it is exciting to take risks when you're young, you always need a fallback plan. I can say this.. that its definitely possible to own a Porsche at a young age, so long as you know what you're getting into. I'd say finish college; get that better job and then plunge into Porsches. Get into better spending habits so that you're confident of dealing with expensive repairs. Controlled spending and saving would help a lot in other avenues as well. If you're really that passionate about a Porsche and want to own one for years, the one year wait shouldn't be hard Finding 'the' Porsche you want can itself take a while, so you can actually get started with your search in 6-8 months. That will keep you motivated to find the big job and finally buy the car. Good luck

1- cars are money pits. (why I never buy new). 2- unless you live in a low property tax state, so are houses. 3- Anyone can buy a Porsche. There are 1,000 1999-2012 Carreras on Autotrader right now. And God knows how many Caymans, Boxsters, Cayennes and Panameras. 4- The single biggest thing going for you as a young person with no debt and savings is the time value of money. The notion that you need a huge pile of cash so you can turn it into a huge-r pile is a myth. Even if its only $25K, you need TIME to let that money grow. You will ONLY have this advantage of a long investment window when you are young. Once you're in your 30's and 40's that 15-20 years of letting money grow is gone forever. By then you might have responsibilities that mean you have this much in savings: $0. Most young people today and yesterday, **** this away this advantage buying Porsches and Range Rovers. When I first had an oppourtunity to buy an expensive car I was very young but already investing in the markets for many years, no obligations. This was not money given to me by family or some rich aunt by the way. I could have purchased any Porsche, but I decided not to buy a Porsche. I bought a Japanese car instead. The Porsche would have to come later. And even when I did buy the Porsche, once again I could have purchased something very expensive. I decided I would ignore price and buy what met all my needs. I gave the bank back most of their loan amount, figuratively speaking, and kept my cash umolested, in part because I had a feeling that stocks, houses and assets were going to get real cheap in the not too distant future. And boy did they. I plowed money into the market when it lost half its value in a blink. Moral of the story, if you want to play you need cash. And when it comes to investing, you will never have as much of it as you would like. Guard your cash, the Porsche mechanic near you has enough of it already.

I'll paraphrase a line from the movie The Social Network: you know what's cooler than owning a used Porsche in your 20s? Paying cash for a new Porsche in your 30s with a million dollars worth of savings in the bank from all your hard work over the last 15-20 years. Say it with me: delayed gratification. For those of us that didn't grow up with a trust fund, a Porsche is a reward for a lifetime of hard work. Trust me, it will feel good when you know you've earned it and can do it without overstretching to get there. Play the cards you've been dealt right, make smart decisions, and the rewards you seek will be yours in time.

Quotes source post: 10564082

I agree with you completely. This statement perfectly captures the OP's disconnect with some of the advice that's been given to date. You say "only $25K" while the OP is (rightfully) losing sleep over the "$25K" because it sounds like it's essentially his life savings. I don't mean to diminish the value of $25K. It is a lot of money but when $25K represents everything you (TheLastTemplar) has, you don't spend it on a used car...or any car. -Eric

^Agreed. To the OP, there is a great movie called "Broke" on NetFlix. Its a sports documentary claiming that like 80% of all professional athletes are bankrupt within three years of retirement. Why? Because as soon as they got money they spent it. They never actually learned about diversification in asset classes, (the right way). Instead they all buy sports cars and car washes that fold. The worst appear to be the NFL players. Since their season is short, and they are only paid by their teams during the season, many are flat broke by week 1 of the next season. Once they're released/cut still in their 20's, no more checks. The oppourtunity to watch a few million dollars grow over 20 years, at which point they still would be only in their late 40's, gone forever. I blame the colleges for never taking their prized athletes aside and saying "this is a fiduciary. He will help you to understand something about retirement planning". They leave college just as financially illiterate as they came in.Ditto for the non-athletes, except they leave with a $30K-$100K bill.

I can't fully blame the colleges. I might, however, blame the NFL player's unions. They collect all kinds of fees from the players...for what? -Eric

I don't think they pay the unions to educate them on the basics of finance. And I can't think of a good reason why this education shouldn't be included, or better yet required, as part of any insanely over-priced four year college degree. I was required to know that there are basalt formations under NJ but not how your average corp. 401K plan is taking you to the cleaners on excessive fees not included in mutual fund expense ratios.

Quotes source post: 10564961

If you had any idea how many scumbag "fiduciaries" hose their pro-athlete clients, you'd be amazed. Not just unlucky or poor investments, but outright theft. These individuals tend to rely on others for this advice, and its not always good advice.

Quotes source post: 10564961

lol well, that's a just a general criticism of the whole liberal arts education process...not that I disagree with you. But, point taken on the union's obligations. I agree that it isn't really their responsibility. If there's anyone to blame it's really the parents who should have given them some of these fundamentals but they're probably among the offenders encouraging them to spend their earnings away. -Eric

OP... I just realized you started another thread awhile back asking which Pcar color is the most desirable. I hope your investment in a 996 doesn't come down to that. BTW...the correct answer is Guards Red.

Guys, having read more on minimalism and reading interviews on true, hardcore minimalists... I can say money is an illusion created a long time ago. Money only exists if 2 people believe in it. And obviously, MANY folks do believe in it like myself. However, money can always be made back, whereas time-- once it's gone, you can't get it back. So money is just that, an illusion, and unfortunately it is something one needs to get a Porsche, haha. If anyone here has watched videos on "small spaces" from Youtube, you will know many folks have their own homes, all paid for-- usually around the price of a used 1999 Carrera for example, meaning 25K or a bit less. Seriously, besides wanting a Porsche, I have no other big ticket material goals in mind except for a Ninja 500R. I don't live lavishly and don't really intend to. So if I made 35K a year or 40K, I am sure I can set aside $3500 a year put it into a bank account, and not use it unless it's car related.

Quotes source post: 10564082

How and where should I invest 25K-- serious question? I assume you mean investing an RRSP or GIC right, since you sound quite confident in your post.

I'm 35... making about $240-$260k this year, decent money, but with $4500 rent living in San Francisco and California taxes, not much in reality and nothing like most of the people on this board... OH, and I still haven't purchased my first porsche. The idea of my money NOT growing for me makes me sick to my stomach. May buy the 991 gt3 I'm on list for in summer 2014 and keep it for 12 months.. but only if values stay VERY stable... and even then.. the idea of $150k just sitting there doing nothing but looking good for a year or so makes me more sick to my stomach. to the OP... buy a Miata... enjoy the hell out of it.. enjoy your money making money for you with rental properties, stocks.. drugs... whatever floats your boat. Don't dump it into a nice car. You have your 40's-50's-60's-70's.. to do that. or... ignore everything I've just said and smile for a bit while you enjoy your new toy... then keep working for the man until your back breaks and your children don't recognize you.

Holy guacamole, I'm not even sure how to respond to half of what you wrote. Speak to someone at your bank and ask them if you can speak with a financial planner -- someone who does not work off of a commission. Are you putting anything into an eventual retirement (e.g., 401k)? What about an IRA? Bonds? Anything? Are you just stashing cash in a savings account? I've read that the 30K mile maintenance typically costs around $2K. Replacing a failed water pump is going to cost another $1K+. What happens if this all occurs during your first year of ownership and then something else goes? What happens if you have unforeseen medical bills? Are you then completely out of cash? I'm all for seizing the day...carpe diem...woohoo...whatever. I get it but don't be foolish about it. Part of growing up is learning that you can't always act like you're a 16y/o kid with the answers to everything. You can seize the day in a used Mazda Miata, too...and that Porsche you've dreamed about will always be waiting for you around the corner. Best of luck, -Eric

^ I'm scared-- in a few years of holding off on a 996, I will need to start looking at 997s since many who buy 996s from now til a few years from today, owners will sell them since they couldn't afford to take care of their car, or even do basic/necessary maintenance and checkups-- meaning car is even more sketchy, meaning less confidence on my part. I will go visit my bank tomorrow and ask about IRA, bonds, etcs

The CORRECT answer to your question is buy as much Porsche as you can afford. While you're at the bank, ask about a car loan ... 25k and a small monthly will get you a 996 twin turbo

Quotes source post: 10566017

Perhaps your stomach would feel better if the amount "sitting there doing nothing" was an insignificant fraction of your net worth/investments. Why willingly do something that makes your stomach sick? Otherwise, I liked your advice to Templar.

Quotes source post: 10565987

This is all good...until your future wife starts having future babies.

Quotes source post: 10566017

For what it's worth, my COLA income is in the same ball park and I couldn't see myself dropping 6 figures on something like that. A used GT3 is a far better idea IMO, you stand to lose maybe 5K over 2-3years. There's opportunity cost to that money also:

Quotes source posts: 10565987, 10566017

that illusion can become real awfully quick when you run outta cash. There is a big difference between being a minimalist voluntarily and not having enough money to know where you rent payment will come from next month. somewhat uncouth to discuss this. Also, keep in mind that $250k is about 5 times the average annual income.

Quadcammer, are you the same Quadcammer on the benzworld W220 site? If so, small world and it seems like we have the same taste in cars!!

Quotes source post: 10566593

I can tell you I bought my first Porsche when I was 17 (914). I spent every penny modding it and having the rust fixed and painted and top of the line stereos. Was some of the best times in my life! I had nothing else and lived at home. Make yourself happy. There is upside and downside to everything (even investing the money for the future). You never know when your time is up. I now have all the toys I want including several 928's. I am looking for a 996 that needs repairs as a project car. I am 47 now and recently divorced. I have two homes (both with large mortgages) and the one I live in is 875 square feet and is not the 'best' area, but I have never had a problem. If you are into status symbols, you are on a very dangerous slope. If you appreciate fine engineering and are willing to learn to turn a wrench, I say go for it. There was a guy at our 928 fun run who bought his 928 and had never even held a wrench before. In the couple of years he owned it he has even done a timing belt and water pump now. So you CAN learn to do it. Plus there is the internet which has amazing help. There was nothing like that when I started... How is that? Unless I don't understand the word uncouth. (I do) The rent is also 5x just about anywhere else. It all has to do with perspective.

Quotes source post: 10566637

sure am. small world indeed.

Quotes source post: 10566685

Your income is generally something best kept to yourself. That said, yes, rent is high in that area. Nevertheless, if you can't live comfortably on 250k, you may be doing something wrong.

Quotes source post: 10566751

Probably not in a thread that discusses prudence of buying a used high-end sports car given one's income...

When the title of the thread states the OP's income, I used mine as an example for proportion. Also, on a "relatively" anonymous board where one asks for advice, I thought it appropriate. I didn't say I have trouble living on that amount.. I do have trouble reaching my goal of saving $150k/ye though

I see nothing inappropriate about CAlexio's income statement, in the context of this thread. Ummm...LastTemplar.... step AWAY from the bong! A philosophy like that will ensure a lifetime of living in youth hostels, hanging out with the unwashed masses, and saying "cool, dude" far too often. Groovy, man.

Quotes source post: 10567304

... And you forgot to mention, a lifetime without a Porsche…hee hee!!

And, I forgot to make the comment: "A hardcore minimalist driving a Porsche????" ? ?? ??? ????? ?????? Ummm.... OK. Be prepared to spend all your time giving your fellow "hardcore minimalists" rides over to the local medical marijuana dispensaries.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

I'm going to say something which may upset people, but hopefully gets the OP thinking. In my opinion, unless you are severely me tally or physically handicapped, or have highly burdensome family obligations.. There is no reason in this country that one should make only $35k/yr. you can always get a second job, start a small business even mowing lawns or walking dogs, or maybe learn a bit about the equity markets and make your money work for you. Making such a pitiful amount of money is a choice, it's a choice to remain poor.. At any age. I would encourage the OP to focus on doubling his income at a minimum first (you can make $35k/yr walking dogs after work) and THEN much more comfortably go out and purchase his porache with the new-found confidence of a man who has taken his destiny into his own hands. $35k is barely above welfare payments, and any able-bodied man in the US should not be content with that amount.

Man this thread is self-destructing fast. I agree a little with this but wow!, at least he has a job and is not on the "Obama Plan" which seems to be epidemic these days. Have fun whatever you do but dont forget to plan for the future. JMHO but the 996 has become a DIY'ers car only, with very high maintenance costs if you cant DIY.

I think $35K for a family of three is considered poverty level. About ~15% of the country are at or below that level. While I agree that in this country of so much oppourtunity to properly fund a retirement -- when you won't be able to work anymore but will still need to eat -- it is indeed a shame that people don't think about the future. One thing you realize as you get older is how quickly time catches up to you. I'm not sure that earning just enough to pay only your current living expenses is very wise from a long-term view. We're living in an age where spending 20-25 years in retirement is definintely feasible. If you've got to live off at least half your current income that means you'd need about $400K to avoid living off food stamps and other govt programs. No way is social security going to cover that kind of coin. That Dave Ramsey guy wrote in one of his books about a USA Today article that the average senior could not write a check for $600... This sounds to me like a whole lot of older people are banking on the govt to help them out, without the govt having anywhere near that kind of cash. You need a plan B and would be wise to get on it as soon as you have cash to save.

Its worse than that. The "government has zero cash, in fact the government has about $17,000,000,000,000 debt. To the OP, learn more about the 996 and see if your willing to tackle a project car. Fix as you can afford.

Quotes source post: 10565994

Actually I'm not even sure I could answer this question because I don't know you. Myself, I have a very HIGH tolerance for risk. When I was 25 I lost an astronomical sum (to me) in a single morning (best lesson on over-leveraging ever). I screamed at the brokerage person on the phone (who had no guilt in the matter). Then I said F***K it let's get some sushi. I did not repeat that mistake again even though it was told me to dozens of times before I committed it. Other people I know are not so resilient and would not have slept a wink leading up to that day or thereafter. Everyone is different. Some young people despite having a long investment horizon still have no appetite for risk. They're probably the future billionaires. who knows. But you have to know how much it will burn you to lose your entire haul of savings before you start coming up with a long-term plan. The best you can do is sit down and list out all your expenses. All the things you absolutely can't do without or you will be miserable without. Down to every last dollar for gas and who knows what else. Then get a hold of a financial planner who is a fiduciary. Meaning they have signed an oath that they will not make any money by selling you or steering you towards certain investments. After they recover from the shock of seeing a young person visiting them and depending on your goals they'll recommend a plan. Make sure they are a fiduciary and don't buy any explanations for why they aren't. A lesson my folks learned the hard way on one of their annuity investments. The only advice I would give you is to avoid any investments that are actively managed and come with all those misreported fees. Lean towards passive investments (like index funds), they carry the smallest cut of your annual returns and actually outperform nearly all actively managed mutual funds. I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the number mutual fund managers who beat the S&P since the 2008 crash. That crash by the way was their big test to see how smart they were at hedging, as it turned out they had to ride out the downturn just like every passive investor -- in other words their big fees to "hedge against risk" were a waste of money. And be careful to include the same "active management fee avoidance" strategy in any target date funds that have become so common place in 401K plans.

Quotes source post: 10568101

And will probably be $34T before long... But debt level really isn't the main problem its the rate of economic growth and our insane dependence on everything not made in this country. You can cut all the spending you want, but the population is still growing and ageing. If 50 cents or more of every consumer dollar is spent on buying an imported good rather than prioritizing the services of a currently employed U.S. worker, then there's no chance that growth can continue to outrun debt -- The skill we were so good at before China took over as manufacturer to the world. Put it this way if for one month people made buying an imported good the last thing on their shopping list and paying for domestic help, going to a privately owned local eatery a few more times each month, going on a domestic vacation trip, hiring an out of work college student to tutor their kids, bringing in a contractor or house painter to brighten up their home, etc... an amazing thing would happen without any Democrats or Republicans having to fight over a thing. Ahhh forget it let's just all buy another Ipad and contribute financially towards another election of the people least likely to improve anything.

Quotes source post: 10566751

On this we both agree.

OK, to hasten its demise: At first, the OP seemed to be asking a legitimate, albeit naive, question. But, as this thread has progressed, it than apparent that the OP is either: 1) Rather ignorant (I mean that in the literal sense... "Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated."); 2) Or, is just messing with the group here. And just what job is that? Seems very "pie in the sky" to me. Maybe you have some ace up your sleeve, but if so, it has been well-hidden throughout this thread. Here's some basic sound investing/financial advice: 1) Save at least 10% of your gross income, every single year, starting with your first paid job. 2) Put the bulk of it into a diversified index fund. 3) Don't marry some crazy broad that cleans out all of your accounts during an insane divorce proceeding. OK, this thread has officially been flogged to death. R.I.P.

I've lived by the general rule of thumb one should own a car that is no more than 1/3 of your gross income. This website says 10%: http://www.financialsamurai.com/2012...e-must-follow/ which I think is too low.

Time to move this thread to OT. It stopped dealing with 996's a long time ago, except for KK's usual advice to learn how to drop your engine in 5 minutes using only a Q Tip and a spatula. To the OP, always remember...you can fix broke, but you can't fix poor.

Quotes source post: 10555955

No. Here's how it works - I bought my first 911 a few weeks ago. Since that time, I lost my wedding band and had to replace it ($500), and the plumbing in my house ate itself ($3000). You never get to buy a cool sports car in isolation - somehow, some way, the INSTANT you spend money on a nice toy for yourself, 3 things break, you get laid off, and your kid lands in the ER with a nice bill and you haven't made a dent in your high-deductible policy this year. BET ON IT. Good luck with your car and everything else. If you get it, I hope you don't get kicked in the nuts too hard for this reckless, stupid, fun and awesome decision. If you don't get it now, do get it soon when you can afford it having earned the right to own a Porsche 911 without worrying about whether or not you have made a terrible mistake.

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No, being a dick is a choice. Way to be a dick. -Eric

Quotes source post: 10565987

While everyone is talking about investment, remember one thing. You can die at any given moment. Then what's that investment worth to you? That should be more than enough to maintain a 996. Like I said before, find a shop that works on Porsches vs. the dealer, it will save you a significant amount of money.

Quotes source post: 10568751

probability dictates that you won't die prematurely (obviously ignoring known illness). Not delaying gratification is part of what got this country and government in trouble. The you only live once or you may die tomorrow folks sure may have fun now. But watching them on welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc when they are older because they didn't die is a sad thing. Everything in moderation...some money towards fun, some money saved for the large chance you won't die tomorrow.

Quotes source post: 10568725

Eric, I won't return the gratuitous insult, but I suggest you let go of the emotion and think about/re-read what I wrote. You'll find that none of it is malicious, in fact it's real and encouraging advice for the OP to reach higher if his condition allows. The "it's ok, everyone is a winner" mentality didn't help anyone. $35k in this country, means even someone with a high school degree isn't working many hours in a week.. Just by having a bit less leisure time and taking an extra small job would raise that by $10-$15k. (2 nights bartending pr waiting tables/week for example). A bit of entrepreneurial spirit, or depth of knowledge In a field of interest at a basic level can double that total to $70k easy.. Ill let YOU do the easy math there . To reach $100k you need some years of experience and usually a college degree, or you have a regular job and work your own gig on the side if you don't have family obligations (like the OP).. Above that.. Yea, you probably need to excel in some way.. But I know a lot of real schmucks who make $150k. There are many on this board who make 7-8 figures and see someone like me as not reaching their potential.. It's pretty relative. But $35k means you're not even trying.. And that's the truth. Eric, Don't lower yourself to name calling, and don't be scared of the truth.. especially, if your visceral reaction is because this might pertain to you as well.

There was nothing gratuitous about my comment. You earned every bit of it. -Eric P.S. You nailed my reaction on the head. Have you considered a career in psychology?

Quotes source post: 10568960

this thread is regarding the OP's question. If you have something personal which is bothering you please send me a message and I will try to make you feel better. Alternatively, please enlighten myself and others here as to why you feel the need to call others names.. what exactly have I said to upset you? If I nailed your reaction because you also have trouble making more than $35k, it's just a matter of trying harder.. getting upset at others won't do you any good will it? If you'd like, I do have a few basic equity-investing strategies I would be happy to share with you, which while not fool-proof, are generally a good starting point for a mock-portfolio to practice on, before you invest hard-earned money. Not sure about the psychology career, but you really should look into why some hard-truths make you react this way... taking a good assessment of oneself is sometimes painful but good medicine. now, please.. lets contribute to this thread positively, lets get fragile ego out of the way ok? ;-)

Quotes source post: 10567690

Why do you and others view minimalists as hippies or weed smokers. Not me, and not from many blog sites I have visited to somewhat adopt this philosophy. I have gotten a lot of material things and am even considering selling my movie collection and go Netflix, to reduce physical clutter. I think the fact I ONLY want one sports car, a 996 Carrera 2, and one bike, is very basic and not overly materialistic. That is TWO physical items. I don't care for large homes, or boats, or anything extravagant.

Quotes source post: 10568725

Thanks for having my back Sue. And for the record guys, I have made Kijiji postings for services like painting and yardwork-- got a few replies, but replying back I hear nothing. I was much better at this 2 years ago. I made around $2000, by working pretty hard from Kijiji ads, but I have no luck this year. Too many folks offering services on Kijiji, some whom are registered in the city to actually run a business.

I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life, but I still think you don't earn enough to own a 911, pay the insurance on a 911, maintain a 911, AND have anything left for everything that will come flying at you from every direction the instant you buy one. All these people saying go for it, assuming you're a mechanic, assume you already own all the tools - do you own all the tools you'll need? Do you have a place to store them? If you are committed to this course of action, then really think it through. Put together a budget and make it detailed. Be sure to include insurance for your new sports car, 20-something driver, and budget out all the equipment you'll need to maintain and repair your car. If you'll need to rent a storage unit to store all that stuff, include that expense. Factor in some random uninsured person slamming into it every couple of years. Factor in one of your teeth breaking in half - insurance usually caps dental at $1000 and you sail right past that if you need a root canal and a crown. Plan on getting one of those in the next 5 years. Stuff is going to happen to you. It's going to come from all directions and you won't see it until it's on top of you. A terrific book, The Black Swan, makes a compelling case that humans are pretty hard-wired to suck at predicting risks' probability, but we're pretty good at calculating the results of that risk occurring. Right now you are hard-wired to discount the probability of lots of expensive possibilities. It takes a long time and a lot of training for most people to learn to stop trying to imagine away risk and instead start planning for it. So my suggestion is to make a budget that assumes several bad/expensive things happen over the next several years and do the math - can you afford a 911? There are lots of opinions here, including mine, but only you can truly answer that question, so do the work and answer it. But don't kid yourself and don't take shortcuts, really crank out that budget and look at what it tells you.

Leejo, I only plan on doing the most basic things like fluid and oil changes and minor stuff like this. Any thing and everything else will be brought to a reliable, indie shop--never a dealership, especially a Porsche dealership. Never taken into account the other risks and things like root canals and such. I am a minimalist, so I really don't care too much about money. Like I said before, a wise minimalist said; money is an illusion, and the only reason it exists is because people want it to exist-- they believe in money. It takes two though in order for money to work/exist. I would still believe that money is all a facade, but knowing how the world I live in work, I will try and save more of it up. Afterall, money is what stands in my way of having my own 996 and bike.

Reminds me of an old Woody Allen line - maybe the universe doesn't really exist, but it's still the only place you can get a decent steak. Maybe money is an illusion, but as illusions go, it's a pretty handy one. It also reminds me of a line from The Jerk - I don't care about losing all the money. It's losing all the stuff. In any case, good luck! Keep in mind that people sometimes change their opinions about things like minimalism over time. Maybe this will happen to you. There is a chance that you will meet someone and make a baby and suddenly your priorities will change. It's not a bad policy to hedge your bets - keep something back in case you're wrong, you change your mind, or a new opportunity you haven't considered presents itself. And it's not as if the choice is between a 911 or driving an old Yugo. Have you driven a BMW 3-series? You could probably get into one of those and plan for a 911 some day but still be a few steps away from the razor's-edge. There are lots of fun cars out there. Keep your eye on that prize, though!