purchasing a 2004 996 C4S

Hello Everybody, I discovered this forum a few days ago and I wanted to start by saying I love the sense of community that is across this forum. Its amazing to be surrounded by such good people that all share something they are passionate about. That being said, a local BMW dealer has come across a 996 C4S which the previous owner traded in and is going up for sale soon. Here are the details that I know of so far: 2004 C4S Black on Black 11,800 miles 6spd manual Full Leather power seats, windows, etc Bose audio Navigation Xenon lights I drove the car the other night and I was blown away by the handling and the overall condition of the car. Dealer told me that the only thing on the record is that it's been involved in a fender-bender in the past, I was able to verify that the hood had been replaced/repainted, otherwise the car looks great. I've bought cars from this salesman before so he brought up this deal while we were in there other day shopping for a friend. The car hasn't actually gone up for sale yet. Long story short, they are asking $42,000 for it. I haven't discussed the features/options in detail with him nor have we spoke about CPO, etc. He just emailed me the asking price as he found out from his manager. What do you guys think?? Is this a good deal? Thanks! Hov

First of all, welcome to Rennlist. Many will warn you about low mileage Porsches that can have their own set of issues due to inactivity. Second is pricing, its just so hard to determine 'value'. I would suggest driving a few before you commit, and I would want an expert to look over the previous damage to be sure there isn't any hidden damage after the fix. 42k is a bit dear, so maybe a CPO would sweeten the deal.GL and keep us in the loop.

thanks barn, I'll see if I can CPO it or get them to include some sort of warranty. I'll see if I can drive any others before committing. And I'll definitely be having a specialist look at it first. It is a BMW dealership so I'm somewhat assured they won't be as sneaky as some private dealers. The story is that a lady traded the car in for an bmw x3, she recently got divorced and wanted to have something more convenient for the kids. KBB states that with the options and mileage if buying from a private seller... Excellent: $46,742 , Very Good: $46,042 , Good: $45,142 , Fair: $42,442 Suggested Retail... Excellent: $50,342 Certified Pre-Owned... Excellent: $52,342

I would get a PPI at a reputable indy shop IMHO before the purchase. Accident record hurts resale on these cars.

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At $42K apprently not I LOVE my 02 C4S, by the way.

Can you get a CPO on a 2004?

I would not pay that high for a car that has been wrecked! I don't care how low the miles are. Also it doesn't matter how well you know a salesman. His job is to sell

good advice guys, love all the input here. Apparently someone had backed into her car when she was in a parking lot a there was minor damage to the front... The only way I was able to tell was by seeing some unpainted hood (underneath edge) which is right above the windshield. Besides this, the interior is totally free of any wear, looks and smells just about brand new. What would you guys expect to pay for something similar to the car that I'm describing? At this point my only reference is KBB prices. Here's what it says under "Fair Condition" which is noted at $42,442: Fair: 18% of all cars we value meet this criteria. This car has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing, but is still in safe running condition and has a clean title history. The paint, body and/or interior may need professional servicing. The tires may need replacing and there may be some repairable rust damage.

Sounds to me like you really want this car! Go get a PPI and have fun with it. What's a few grand here and there...

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You just brought up another point. Its got 6-7 year old tires. Can you track down pics of the car from the said accident?

lol Gonzo, I come from a BMW background. 2002 M3, 2008 335i, and currently a 2003 540i. This would be a complete change of character for me but I welcome the opportunity to own and enjoy one of these fine machines if I can find a good deal. I just want to be sure I'm not getting shafted by the sneaky dealers. Chao. I'll find out about tires, they looked new on the car but I'll check. The pics may be hard to come by but I'll find out more on my next visit to the salesman. Most importantly I wanted to share what I do know with you guys in case you had some suggestions to load me up with before I go see him again. He told my father about the car (he's helping him buy a BMW) and my father told me about the 911. So after work I stopped by for a test-drive. The car wasn't prepped for sale or anything, the salesman didn't even really know anything about the car at the time.

The difficult thing about buying a used Porsche is that if you don't have service and maintenance records from the previous owner, it's extremely difficult to find out anything about the car's history. This is true even at a Porsche dealer. There isn't a central network that allows a dealer to track down the car's service history. All they can really find in the system is whether a car was in for a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) repair. Because you don't have much in the way of history on this car, you'll need to rely heavily on your PPI and on your own gut. If you like the car and the PPI checks out, then I say go for it. You can drive yourself crazy if you get too deep into the weeds here. On the other hand, if the PPI reveals some issues and if your gut starts telling you that there may be issues, then walk away. It's easy to get emotional when shopping for Porsches. If this isn't the one for you, there will be others. Enjoy the process!

good advice dennis! on that note...I need to find a good shop in BOSTON!

I'm going to point out the negative: If the accident shows up on a carfax or similar report, that's a non-starter for me. Value is already effected and far more than the $42K asking price would suggest. With that low mileage on a 8 year old car you can most likely assume: 1st, Tires are original - sure the tread is good, just don't ignore the dry rot! make sure you check the date of manufacture of the tires. It's a 4 digit code in the side wall. first two numbers are the week in which the tires were produced, second 2 numbers are the year (etc 2105 means that the tires were produced in the 21st week of 2005). 2nd, the trans/differential fluid has never been changed. 3rd, the oil may have been changed 3 times (if your lucky) 4th This car sat, not being used for quite a long time. 5th The car has it's original IMS/RMS None of these things are good when it comes to these cars (or any cars for that matter). IMO, low mileage on these cars is a cause for concern. No way they would get $42k from me on this car, regardless of mint condition appearance.

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Thank you for saving me the trouble of typing. I just turned 125,000 miles on my 2004 C4S.... would never buy a Porsche with miles that low, and in a fender bender - no matter how minor. I mean 42k is pushing 2004 Turbo pricing. Welcome to Rennlist, good luck!

just did an autotrader search for a 911 with max pricing set to $50,000. Only found 1 and its a carrera S with 40,000 mi asking almost $43,000 lol I'm no pro but around $40k seems decent for this car if it checks out with PPI. Is there something I'm missing here, or is it just that I'm from Boston and there aren't too many used Porsches around here.

Black on Black 4S huh? Sounds nice to me considering the miles. Like others have said, get the inspected by and independent mechanic. Consider doing some elective maintenance on wear items and deduct that from your offering price. As far as the hood replacement goes.... well that just gives you more ammo to negotiate. I imagine the front bumper cover and other bits were replaced as well. make your indy take the cover off and also take out the trunk carpet to see if there is more damage then just a casual fender bender. If the car checks out it may be worth mid 30s as it a low mile and desirable color combo. $42,000 is would be a number for an absolutely perfect example with low miles, records, no paint work etc. The 4S is a special car however and sometimes when you find the right combo and miles and local you can toss a lot of common sense out the window. Good luck with your negotiations... and yes this a good group on RL...

$37K for a 60K mile 2001 turbo for example. Body style did not change between 2001 to 2004 turbos and it is the same body as the 2002 to 2004 C4S http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/a...96tt-sale.html

Yeah, you'd be crazy to pay KBB for that car! You can buy C4Ss all over the place for like $100. Same ol, same ol......blah, blah, blah. You'll always hear this kind of stuff, truth is, you never really know. Get a PPI from a well respected shop in Boston (I'm sure someone here can suggest one) and go from there. The benefit you have is the car is local so no travel or trans costs (that $38k turbo is in Cali = $1k trans). If its exactly what you want then that's also a plus. Just because a car has low miles doesn't mean is got issues and there are plenty of cars that have had minor body work done by shops that don't report to carfax. It's an 8 year old Porsche, its not THAT exotic where minor panel work will affect resale much. I'd buy it if you like it and it checks out.

The C4S is a special 911, turbo body,brakes,suspension bits, and without the Turbos extra maintenance costs. I would also be a little concerned about the low miles, and lack of service because of this fact, but a THUROUGH ppi would be well worth the expense. EXCELLENCE magazing would peg this car between 30-40k,with 10% more allowed for low mileage, but I would put it at 36-39k if I was buying. You have to also take in to consideration that all of our 996's are more than likely to take another depreciation hit soon with the 991's arrival. In buying my 2000 48,000 mile cab about a year and a half ago, I used EXCELLENCE mag's value chart for the past 4 years or so as a bargaining chip. It clearly showed how much they continue to depreciate. I also took in some print outs of recent actual sales of comparible vehichles from ebay to solidify my point to the dealer as to what the "real world" market was on my car. I hope some of this advice helps. Good luck, and welcome to our community!

I would take turbo's GT1 block over the M96 engine anyday for the same price. IMS bearing retrofit cost = turbo replacement so its a wash. 996 turbos are not maintenance hogs. They are extremely reliable kept in stock form. One rennlister(T2) has over 318K miles on his turbo with very little done outside of regular maintenance. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...ge-996-tt.html

brake flush, maybe brakes, tires, coolant, oils, filters, plugs, another $2500ish....make it an even $4k to upgrade the stereo, and the final $3 - 3.5k for the 50K warranty.....now at $43k that's a smokin deal. then u can jump in w the rest of us & worry about the IMS & the RMS & THE AOS..... STOP....reading now or u never will buy one-

2004 C4S Black on Black, 6 speed and full leather and low miles sounds like a dream car ! If you lift the hood, are the original stickers there or are they missing ? Missing would indicate hood replacement rather than painting, and probably more signifigant damage. If this is the first one you have looked at, hold off and keep looking IMHO. The fun in getting your porshce is the "hunt".

i love you guys already! i never imagined to get so many responses! haha i'll keep you posted once I check back with the dealer. thanks for all the input!!

thanks barn, I'll see if I can CPO it or get them to include some sort of warranty. I'll see if I can drive any others before committing. And I'll definitely be having a specialist look at it first. It is a BMW dealership so I'm somewhat assured they won't be as sneaky as some private dealers. The story is that a lady traded the car in for an bmw x3, she recently got divorced and wanted to have something more convenient for the kids.

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Holy crap is she legally blind?! haha

Jerry Pellegrino @ EPE in Boston has an excellent reputation. good luck with your car sound like a beauty. Bill

I have been tracking the 2004 C4S cab market a while. I don't know how much cheaper coupes are but I imagine a few grand. If it had no accident $42k would be a decent price assuming you don't think that low of miles is a negative as some do. The accident is a wild card and probably pushes the price down. How much I don't know. 10%? 15%? If it checks out I would pay $37k and enjoy it.

Hov, buy mine for 28,500! check the listing on here and pm me your email for more pics. seriously.