Just ordered new Sumitomo HTR Z III tires

My car is on break right now as I'm working on replacing the spark plugs (I got 4 done, gotta do the last two tonight!). As I was under the car I realized that the driver's side rear tire is down to the cords on the inside AND it has a nail in it. So after much research and primarily based on price, I went with the Sumitomo HTR Z III tires. Even though my front Michelin's are still in great shape I will replace the whole set (anyone want used Michelin 18" tires?). I'll probably get them installed on Thursday then report back what I think of them. Oh and thanks Tire Rack for the great price on these things! Imagine that, four tires for the price of 1.5 PS2's!

You got the HTR Z IIIs right? I think the IIs lack the load handling capability for a 996. Most guys go for the IIIs when it comes to the 996.

hope you meant III's

Yeah edited my post and the title!

Sumitomo HTR Z III came with the 911 when I picked it up back in Sep 2009. They feel good, I am below 50% tread with 10k miles on them. I will be getting 295 18s when needed. 2002 C2

the HTZR III's are a great tire/value I enjoyed mine

UPS just pulled up with my new Hankooks V12, considered the Sumi-III as well since they were also on the inexpensive side. $610 total for the 4 @ Discount Tire Online including shipping for the kooks. I was down to the belt as well on one of my fronts PZeros..... got 20-22k out of the PZeros on the rear. Can't wait for the grip to be back later today !

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I think you'll be extremely happy with the Hankook's. I am surprised how good they are (both wet and dry) especially considering their low price.

I'll probably be ready for rears in a few months for mine... Wow, the rears really do wear out faster than the front and getting rears once a year is probably pretty accurate. Fortunately the ZIIIs have a great price... Rudy

Tire wear on these cars is deceiving since the outer 2/3rds of the tire looks relatively fine but the inner 1/3 wear much more quickly. If I hadn't been under the car I would have still assumed my rears had some life remaining in them. I hope these can last at least a year so I can chalk this up as just an annual expense.

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Seriously? My rear Conti's are near the end of their life after 8K miles. No track or autoX, Just street use and no abuse.

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Translation: more turning - harder turning - more turning - harder turning your next set wont do that If you do not like that plan the alternative is less negative camber in the rear - you should have a relationship with your alingment guy and stop in about every 2-3 months for a quick "look" then the next time he aligns your car he will know how to set it up for you - unless you are willing to make changes based on what he sees, then he can adjust what he sees in your tire wear to your alignment

I bought Sumi IIIs for my rear tires and think they handle very well, although I'm not a track junky. I wanted to see how they would handle and wear, and so far I am happy with them.

I bought the III's for the 996 last year. I have 10,000 miles on them and this includes 2 DE's (VIR and CMP). I had the rear tires flipped to put the inside wear point to the outside. Once we dismounted the tire, I could barely tell which was the inside and which the outside. I won't be surprised to get 20,000 miles out of the rears. Conti's were lucky to get 10,000 miles of streeet driving only.

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Keep in mind that the 3's are asymetrical and the 2's are directional. You can flip the 2s and get extra life, but you can't with the 3's. -td

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+1. I've had a couple of track days on mine and love them. I'm sure the Michelin's would be better on the track, but that little extra added performance a couple/few times a year, I'll pass on the extra money and save.

fpena944, I just went through the Sumitomo - Hankook debate with myself. My Hankooks were delivered this afternoon. I have to lube up my tire irons those rears look like they are going to be a bear. I might break down and bring them to a shop. How many miles are on your Michelin fronts? What year manufacture date? I agonized about whether to get new Michelin fronts to replace the original front tires. They have 2102 as manufacture date on my 03 cab. They were just into the wear bars with pretty even wear. I replaced the rears about 4k ago and they look good but I did not want to be "stuck" with Michelin$ for the next 40K mile$$. Maybe we could make somebody one good set of used Michelins between us?

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I have the lls on the rear and plan to buy a new set of 4. The IIs are rated for longer tread life or wear than the IIIs and the IIs also have a slight decrease in weight capacity, but it's still plenty for a 996 at 5336 lbs for the set. I'm very impressed with the IIs, as they are very quiet even when worn, handle very well on the wet and also suprisingly well below freezing for a summer rated tire. I can push quite hard and get them to break in a turn but this is long after my passengers would be screaming. Why mess with success?

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I use a 12:1 dish soap to water for lube and take very small bites with the irons. Some people don't like a wet lube and use talc or baby powder. They're all a snap to mount. I also have a bead breaker that makes dismounting easy as well. I have Discount Tire or the like do the balance.

Did you guys experienced with different brand of tires on front and back ? I have good Michelin PS2 in the back but I need to change the fronts...to debug a steering wheel shaking problem that I have. the Sumitomo II or III look like a good deal...

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I was all set to get the Hankook but figured let me give this Sumi's a try since they seem to have also received decent reviews and were a bit less expensive. As for my current Michelin's, I'm not sure what the mileage is on them since when I bought the car last April they were already on there. One of them has a manufacture date of 44th week of 2006, the other one must have the date on the inside. I'll have to do a measurement tomorrow to see how much tread is still left. I contemplated going with just the rear Michelins but thought if this is a yearly expense there has to be a better way to go. Plus if I hate these new tires I know I can always go back to the more expensive choice. I'll let you know the rest of the tire information tomorrow night. I've always been told not to mix. Otherwise I would have absolutely tried the different brand choice. But I would assume that if you're just driving on the street and not pushing it, it really shouldn't make a difference. But I'm just guessing here.

Funny - I was doing my spark plugs last week, and looked over at my driver's side rear and whoa - check out those cords! I went with a set of the Hankooks. $834 mounted, balanced and taxed at Discount Tire in Bellingham WA. One week later and so far so good. The ride is beter than the bald and brittle Bridgestones I had on previously that's for sure. I'm thinking of stiffeneing the PSS9 even the ride is so nice.

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Wow! I logged 19K on my Conti rears. The inside edge was at the wear bars. The fronts had about 50% left. Maybe I need to drive harder?

Well, I was at the Porsche dealer today getting my car inspected for an upcoming DE event and they told me that my Conti's were on their last legs (passed for the event, but, would need new ones soon). Curiousity got the better of me and I asked them to quote a set of Michelin PS2's. I just about lost it when I got the number - $2100!!! I will definitely be going with the Sumi's or Hankooks. At these prices I could go through 2 sets for the price of one set of PS2's!

Ive had continentals on almost all the cars Ive owned....lots of sets on the audis, I do not like them, they grip well in the dry but have terrible wear ratings and once you mix moisture into the mix they are crap. Ive been running yokohamas and sumitomos and have never had an issue with either traction or wear. Just put a set of the brand new sumitomo all-seasons on the saab, very impressed from the conti's that were on the car...stiffer sidewall and overall better grip, plus the look alot better also. Ill most likely grab a set of sumitomos for the 996 when the time comes.

I checked the status on the tires and found that they're already out for delivery! That was damn quick, I just ordered them less than 24 hours ago. But unfortunately I'll have to wait until tomorrow anyway to install them because my car is muffler-less from my spark plug changing effort. I don't think my neighbors would appreciate me running around without the cans on. Looking forward to the new shoes!

Admitedly, I'm an N-spec guy. Since tires affect steering, cornering, handling, and braking - I want to be confident (and safe) when I'm in the car, especially when tearing down an entrance ramp to an interstate highway, drving in an autocross, or having fun taking corners "briskly" on back-country roads. My tire of choice (just took delivery of them) is Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. Prior to that, it was Michelin Pilot Sport Rib (but boy, they wear fast!). I know that other brands can deliver solid performance (as you guys have noted), but the N-spec means a lot to me.

I just installed a set of Bridgestone Pole Positions for $1200 including balancing. I also went from 17" to 18" wheels. I was suspect of the cheaper tires so decided to buy a midrange pair hoping they will last longer. It seems that the reviews for these tires were better than the rest. I'll let you know. They are also offering a $100 rebate right now.

Yeah, those cords showing on mine sure made my decision to replace the tires easier! Got the Hankooks put on yesterday. $785 total including Alignment ($610 for the 4 tires + local mount/balance/alignment). Can't complain.... very pleased so far.

Based on another thread "best bang for the buck tires" I ordered a set of 19" Hankook's. Had them installed last week and so far I think they're great. Can't beat the price @ $780 delivered! Cheers, Stanley

I put the Sumi IIIs on my car(2000 C2) late last fall and so far I really like them. They do not grip quite as well as the Michelins they replaced but on the street it is very hard to say for certain as the cars limits are so high. They certainly give great dry/wet grip for the money and I am very happy with my choice. I hope to do an AX soon with them. I'll be happy if they give me 8/10 - 9/10ths of the Michelin's performance.

Mine went on today. And while admittedly my PS2's were quite worn, the ride on my commute home was sure a lot more enjoyable - much softer and quieter! Unfortunately it's snowing here today so tomorrow might be a "take your truck to work" day....

Tires are on but since it was raining all I did was drive the 3+ miles back home from the shop. But just on that short drive I realized how bad my previous set must have been. The ride is so much smoother and quieter. I'll give a full assessment in a few days once I get to push them a bit!

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I am at exactly the same decision point as you were. PS2's on the front are fine but the rears are just about done. I don't track the C4S and will be interested to hear your Sumo impressions. Can't beat the price

Might do the sumis as well. Be a shame to toss My front contis.they are easily 70% good.

Installed the Sumi IIIs about 2 mos ago. I think they are great - could never justify spending $100 more per tire.

I had Hankook V12's installed a year and 13K miles ago for $829, including 4-wheel alignment. Handling, ride quality and noise has been excellent for street, freeway and backcountry driving. The front tires still look like new and the rears are showing wear, with the insides a bit closer to the wearbars, but still with plenty of life remaining. I see no reason to replace them with another brand when the time comes.

What tire pressure do you guys run on the street?

36-front 44 rear.........

35psi f , 42psi r ...

I believe the 36 Front and 44 Rear PSI is for a car that is fully loaded with 2+ people and luggage. The tire pressures for a "normal load" is something like 32 to 33 Front and 39 to 40 Rear. I don't have my 996 anymore so I don't have access to an owner's manual. These lower pressures will give you a better (less harsh) ride and not prematurely wear out the center of your rear tires.

Okay, I admit it...I'll come clean...I run about 32-40 most of the time....It's softer, quieter......

The tires have been great so far, very quiet and smooth. Of course this may not so much be the tire as much as the fact that it is new rubber. I do have one bad thing to report though regarding the installation. I took it to a Tire Kingdom and on my driver's side front rim I noticed a couple of black scuffs today when washing the car. I saw it on Thursday night but it was raining and my rims had a lot of brake dust on them. So I called the place today and was told to come in tomorrow to speak with a manager. I know for a fact the damage was not caused by me because I NEVER park the car close to any curbs or anything. I hope they do what needs to be done... Next week I'm heading to an autocross, so I'll really be able to feel the difference between the Michelin's and these.

Last time I went to discount tires, and the guy was so quick using is impact tool to remove the lug nuts, it slips and left a nasty scratch on the rim. I figured next time I will take out the wheels myself and bring them in the trunk of my SUV. I assume only Porsche owner have OCD when it comes to wheels scratches. I am curious to see what the manager will say about that. I doubt they will pay for a brand new wheel. let's see.

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Ok I feel like a total a$$ this morning... Went to Tire Kingdom and showed them the scuffs on my rims. The manager tells me, "We have no tools in our shop that can create those marks." I respond to him, "Well it didn't happen in my garage so how did they appear?" We went back and forth and he calls out a technician for a second opinion. The tech looks at it, rubs it with a shop towel and tells us he'll be right back. He comes back with some carb cleaner, sprays the marks and they come right off! That's right, wheel cleaner didn't do anything, neither did a brush or even a fingernail. So the marks disappeared and I went back in to apologize to the shop manager. Now I know wheel cleaner is still a little too gentle for simple road tar. But I am absolutely relieved that I didn't have to deal with wheel repairs and all I lost were a couple of man points and took a little hit on the ego. Still happy with my tires...Next week I'll give out the autocross report!

Yes, but now your wheels don't need a paint touch up..just your ego.

no need to feel like an a$$ however the fact that you do and the fact that they are the ones that left the stuff on the wheels means you both still feel good about it...its not bad, and it was resolved. however they are thinking "dumba$$" just kidding!!

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I love the PZero's grip... every time I have an instructor in the car at DE's they ask what kind of tires I am running... But they have worn in <8K miles of street driving and 3 two-day DEs. How do the Sumi's do on the track?

OK, just ordered a set of the Sumi's as well. Had a long conversation with Damon at the Tire Rack (I have no affiliation with Tire Rack and, hopefully, this doesn't break any rules) and he was extremely helpful. The tires should ship out today and I will have them on the car with enough time before my DE to have them properly "scuffed". Hopefully, this will be as smooth for me as for everyone else!

seriously!,go with a n spec tires,its not snake oil,they are porsche approved for a reason,load characteristics etc. by all means shop around for the best price,i did and saved alot(on PS2 s no less)dont skimp and dont mix and match ever! by the way i called tire rack to see if they would match the price,not a chance!. i guess they dont have to.anyway just my opinion,good luck!

I mixed Dunlop SP8000s(discontinued) on the front that were 80% good and classified as HIGH PERFORMANCE tires and new MAXIMIUM PERFORMANCE classified Sumi 3's on the rear with no handling issues in wet or dry at all speeds up to 100.....pretty quiet, good if not great grip....... Air= 36/36 lbs all around on 993...................... Price is so good, that if they wear out twice as fast I am still aheadversus PS2...... SUMI has Dunlop technology as Dunlop owns a piece of that company and collaborates on R&D according to several articles I have read about these tires....satisfied buyer with 3,000 miles on the tires....we'll see how they wear and if they get noisy as they age......

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With all due respect, you sound like an attorney. No, N spec tires are not snake oil, they are tires that are built specifically for the Porsche 996. That means the aspect ratio is exact to work best with Porsche stock suspension, rather than within the specs of the tire mfgs. The rubber compounds, casing stiffness, water dispersal abilities, road noise and all other factors fall within Porsches requirements for a tire. All this means, is you most likely won't go wrong with this tire, as it is approved for use on the 996. In reality, it may not even be the best tire for the car, or the best for your particular application. I've run the N spec Pirelli Asymetricos on my 996 and Boxster and thought them to be ok, that's until I ran Dunlops, Yokohama and Sumis. By comparason, the Pirellis are harsh and noisy. Porsche does not want to be responsable for handling, braking or other problems arising from tire choices so the test a few brands, tweek them a bit and supply them on new vehicles. They recommend only what they have tested and found to work ok. They get special OE contract pricing on these tires based on the fact they are not speced for general usage and the quantities used. If for example Michelin made two seemingly identical tires, one N spec and the other not, the difference could be very subtile. The casing of the front tires could be less rigid and more compliant to offer a softer ride for a rear engined car, or the total diameter could be very slightly less, even though it is speced the same aspect ratio, to allow for quicker steering changes. On mixing tires, a manufacturer of cars or tires would never recommend this, nor would I. Read between the lines, because I would not recommend something, does not mean it should not be done or that it is unsafe. It means that I don't want to assume responsablity for what I have not specifically experienced. If in competition, or building a show car, I would not mix tire brands. But driving a 170mph vehicle on public roads, usually never exceeding 75 mph with a few quick bursts up to 130mph or so, I don't see the logic not to. My tires wear out generally 2 fronts to 1 rear, so when I need rears, I may want to switch brands. I certainly won't trash my half worn fronts but run the mix. If I find this combination adversly affects anything I'll address it. If not, they will be replaced with a match when expired. If you are not in tune with your car and don't have the ability to pick up subtile handling, braking and suspension related quirks, I recommend you drive the speed limit and don't mix tires and stick with the N spec only. Oh, and replace the tires when you are close to the wear bars. You might like nitrogen instead of air, too!

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Dunlop 404 motorcycles tires are made by Sumitomo Tire and Rubber Co as stated on the sidewall. They are an inexpensive, good handling, relatively fast wearing, good wet weather tire, priced well below the Dunlop premium line. I believe the Sumi car tires are several notches up from the motorcycle ones.

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A little carb cleaner works well taking out cone kills during a rough AutoX or DE event. Just becareful with the stuff too much and itll start messing with your clearcoat.

I have the Sumi II's and for the road they are great. I'm currently running mixed as my goodyear F1's up front are still 80% even after 6 DE's. However been on the Sumi II's at the last DE and then another open track day and I can say over 135mph they are dangerous. Car bounces from the back. Going into some of the high speed corners compared to the F1's that were on the back before, the Sumi II's are no where near the same. Confidence level for 2 corners completely gone. So I'll be keeping the Sumi II's for the road, wet and dry I can't complain and road noise is really low compared to the Pzeros which came with the car, the F1's were quiet also. I got the Sumi II's for $115 each for the rear compared with $400 for the F1's. The fronts for the Sumi II's were coming in under $100. I could get a whole set for $500 including shipping. And on US roads I don't see the need for $400 each tire to sit in traffic with no real hope of doing autobahn speeds the Sumi's are great.

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Great feedback -- thanks!

For anyone interested in the Michelins I had in the front before, I now have them listed for sale: https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...res-100-a.html As for these new Sumis, tomorrow is the autocross so I'll let you know what I think of them!

Can't access your link - what are you asking for your front PS2s?

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$100.

Ok here's my analysis of the tires so far: Street Driving I've driven them in rain, sun, and cold weather. The first thing I noticed about them is they are MUCH quieter than the Michelins. But of course the old tires were down to the cords in the rear so that's understandable. In the rain, I don't feel a difference between these tires and the old ones. In fast corners though you can tell there is a little more sidewall flex. This might just be because these tires have more tread and aren't quite broken in yet. But I still can corner with confidence and have yet to hit the tire's limits on the street. One thing that I don't like though is in cold weather it takes about 2-3 minutes of driving before the tires become fully "round" again. There is a slight thumping when the temperature is in the 40s until the tires get warmed up. I didn't have this problem with the Michelins so it must be unique to these tires. Not annoying enough to pay another $300 per tire but just wanted to let everyone know it does happen. At the autocross I participated in an autocross yesterday and for the sake of testing this tire I left the air pressure at stock specs. Although I'm not the greatest autocross driver I felt this was still a good way to see what the tires had in them. I can't say they improved or impeded my performance - which is a good thing. In other words I felt no difference in handling during an autocross between the old Michelins and these Sumis. I even got them to scream a little for me when I came out of some corners too quickly. But throughout it all they maintained their poise...that is until I turned the PSM off on the last lap. This time I was swinging my back end back and forth like a fish tail. But throughout it all I didn't touch one cone, so I was still somewhat able to maintain control. My assessment? For street driving and light performance driving these are well worth the money. If I was going to do some hardcore DE driving or really want to win my class in autocross - I would probably choose something else just because the Michelins are considered the top of the game in those categories. But if you have a daily driver these tires are perfect for that purpose and won't hinder your ability to enjoy the car on the street.

that is exactly how I feel about them - like I stated before, if price it not a factor I wont get another set, if it is - these are great tires!! yours still very new, in about 500 miles they get better, in about 5000 miles they get worse (thru the cones) - street is virtualy the same

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I actually just had some Sumis (III) put on last friday and I drove in near freezing weather this morning on the highway. I did not have what you're describing at all--the tires were butter smooth--so it could be something else entirely.

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You're right - it could just be the road I am taking to work every morning and that these tires react to those bumps a little differently. I'm not sure but I know it works itself out after a couple of minutes and then the ride is quite smooth.

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There was a road near where I just recently moved from that had invisible "waves" in the pavement. You couldn't see them from the side of the road or when driving but they made it feel like the tires were out of balance. Try taking a different route to work and see what happens--quick way to eliminate one possibility.

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Hi Dream Carrera, how did your Sumi's go. I am ready to order based on your response. Cheers Jason

What Conti's is everyone talking about that have worn out around the 10k mark? Just curious as I have the Conti DW's... Thanks

Holy thread resurrection batman! I have sumi IIs on my pcar and have been very happy with them. Actually bought a set of sumi's last year for my bmw 3 series DD. For normal driving they work well and are priced well.

Yeah this one is an old one considering I'm on my 2nd set and about to move on to another set of tires! I might go with the Sumis again but I'm also thinking of trying some Bridgestone tires. The Sumis have been good but just thought with track and autocross events I should try something a little more performance oriented.

I'm getting ready to buy new summer tires too. I tried Sumis, and they weren't bad for the money. However, I'll be moving on to something else. I still haven't decided yet, but I'll probably go back to PS2s.

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Hi Jason, I still stand behind what I previously wrote about the Sumis(HTR Z III). I highly recommend them for the money. The only thing I would add to my earlier comments is that I now believe the Sumis do give about 8/10ths(maybe 9/10ths) of the dry performance of my previous MPS2s, however I believe they actually perform BETTER in the wet than the Michelins and all of this for less than half the price of the MPS2s. Further, I have found their cold weather(below freezing) performance to be a little scary when pushed hard, but these are ultra performance summer tires and should not be expected to perform well in extreme cold. Unless you absolutely need the bit of extra performance the more expensive tires give you at the limit, I think you will be more than happy with the Sumis. They are quiet, wear well, and after thousands of miles on mine I do not notice any drop off in performance. Good luck with whatever tire you choose…

I didn't find the wear of the Sumis to be that much better than Michelins. The Sumis were definitely better than the Pirellis in terms of wear. My experience with the Sumis is that they got very loud towards the end of their life.

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Hi Dennis, How many miles did you get out of your Sumis and with what type of use?

I had the Sumi 3's for 3 sets. Had them the road and the track. The last set I has on the track I was throwing rubber left and right per the guy behind me. They are a great tire but I wanted more. I bought a set of pilot super sports and the results are amazing. Not much more money but sizes are limited. I agree the Sumi gets very loud when at the end.

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Street use only, although that includes some VERY spirited driving on curvy, mountain roads. I've got about 15K miles on them now. The rears are totally shot. The fronts have some life left, but certainly not another 15K. For comparison, the Pirelli P-Zero Rossos that were on before the Sumis went about 10K miles in the rear and about 16K in the front.

You got the HTR Z IIIs right? I think the IIs lack the load handling capability for a 996. Most guys go for the IIIs when it comes to the 996. __________________

I don't really have much to compare them to but I've had the Sumi's on for about 10k miles and I have been very happy with them. For me, as a beginner, they have been great on the track. They did get slippery once they heated up but after adjusting my pressures they calmed down a lot. For the street they are really tough to beat for the price IMO. They perform great in the rain too (but the C4S may be cheating a bit there).

Based on these posts I'm going to try Sumi III on rears for first time

You can flip them but they have to be remounted on the rims. Can't just flip the wheels, you have to flip the tires...

I have the sumi and really like them might try the Yokohama next time just to see the difference.

I have Toyo Proxes 285/30ZR19 on my 2002 996 Cabriolet and I am getting mixed messages on the F/R tire pressure. I currently have 40/45. Any suggestions?

[QUOTE=jefe_not;9286662]You can flip them but they have to be remounted on the rims. Can't just flip the wheels, you have to flip the tires...[/QUOTE What tires are you meaning?