Feedback on roll-bar decision!

When I buy something for my car I feel worse than a women deciding on a pair of shoes! I have "made up my mind" about 10 times already but am still going back and forth. I'm going to put in a roll bar so I can safely run seats/harnesses. I think I've narrowed down my choice to either the Agency Power http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/a...o-p-74008.html or DAS Sport https://www.dassport.com/store/produ...-%2798-to-2011 The agency power removable cross and harness brace would allow access to the rear seats. It would be nice to be able to use them on a limited basis if needed. I know there is a safety risk even without the cross/harness bar in place. But with padding I don't see how it is much different than riding in the back of a Jeep? Can someone elaborate? If I do fully give up the rear seats, does anyone know if the Bose system limits access to the strut towers for mounting the DAS Sport bar?

I had the DAS Sport bar in my '02 C4S, along with Euro GT3 seats and 6-pt harnesses. You must remove the Bose subwoofer to install the bar. I ended up selling the car because of the reduced street-ability from the seats and bar. I still track my 997 but have vowed to keep it stock.

I would never ask anyone to ride in the back seat with a roll bar surrounding them. That's just a massive injury/liability waiting to happen. I don't care if it's padded. You may indeed need a roll bar for the track, but be honest with yourself: If you install one, nothing with a heartbeat should sit back there.

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Ya the more I look at that Agency Power even though the cross brace is removable, the support for the main hoop is still right there in the way. So as a tangent to this thread then...what is the absolute cheapest most reliable beater with back seats?

if you need access to rear seats - use brey krause r1030 harness bar, it is 100% removable. if you need proper roll bar - remove rear seats and get a bar that gets mounted on rear strut mounts like brey-krause and get bolted to the floor in front, not bolted to seatbelts holes. this way you will get a real thing that may be able to support roof without braking your chest/neck with belts in case of a real roll. look here http://www.gmgracing.com/porsche_interior.shtml also read rules - depending of where you run roll bars for PCA DEs must follow rules for racing classes where it is defined that bar must have metal on metal contact. in reality it may not be enforced by your organization but rules are there.

I appreciate the feedback and understand and agree regarding losing the back seats. One thing I don't understand though is the talk of the danger of using a roll bar that attaches to the seat belt mounts similar to the Porsche Tequipment bar. I've seen several people mention this. Did Porsche never test the bar? Is there some documented evidence that it is in fact unsafe in the event of a rollover? I get that it won't meet certain racing regulations, but being deemed unsafe doesn't make sense to me. I'm no expert so this isn't an argument for or against, I was just hoping for some background info.

If your purpose is solely for harnesses, then, in my humble opinion, keep it simple and economical and stick with a harness bar. That won't provide mounting points for the sub or side belts--which a roll bar or roll cage set-up won't either, but it will provide all that you need for solid DE-ing. You have other options for the sub and side belts, including using at least one of the seat belt points, and a modified seat base. The practical reality is that even if you get some type of "removable" bolt-in roll bar/roll cage, there is enough work involved that you probably won't want to remove all of the equipment between events. Then again, maybe you wouldn't mind the effort. The short answer to your question about the seat belt attachment points for a roll bar/cage is that those points were not designed for the stresses that can/will be placed on them by a roll bar/cage, especially in an accident. The harness bar type set-ups are an effective compromise that are typically well-designed for the limits of the typical attachment points. And, if you are going to take the plunge, take a look at the Safety Devices products. They make a compromise between a full welded system, and bolt-in/bolt-out unit that requires only a few hard point modifications for installation.

I'd say think long and hard about harness bar, they offer what the roll bar is for ..attaching harness. And if you really need the rollover protection may be it is time to think about a dedicated track car I mean if you drive at 100% on the track, the 996 will get a beating, you may want to drive something more disposable. I had the tequipment bar, if I had to do it again I'd go with the harness bar. only cool thing about the tequipment is that you can keep the bose subwoofer

Thanks for the comments, they do help me look at this realistically. I'm not worried about losing the back seats so much. My goal is to be as safe as I can (within reason) and I want to use fixed back seats and harnesses. Fixed back seats and harnesses pretty much necessitate rollover protection don't they? The idea is not to remove whatever bar I get between events (just to be able to install without any permanent changes to the car, aside from carpet). That is why I am looking for specifics on why many feel that none of the bolt in type bars are not safe. I don't understand why Porsche, RSS, GMG, DAS Sport, Heigo, and Agency Power would build a roll bar that is so unsafe. Again I'm not arguing, I genuinely want to understand.

All good questions, and I like your safety concerns which is the best approach. Step back and look further, are you moving to a full time track car? I am asking because planning this out correctly will save you alot of time and money on executing your plan (any plan is better than no plan). At some point you'll either sell the car for a track car or convert it to a track car (seat delete, sound system delete, lighter, safer, faster....). Think safety first, and improving the driver. Have fun!

Have you considered the following? http://rss.rpmware.com/rss/rss_4_poi.../i-402509.aspx

if you will roll car on a grass most likely stock pillars will not collapse. car is designed to survive a simple roll. you need proper cage or rollbar when car goes sideways at 140mph and goes into a pole or a wall roof first. if you only do some DEs during season and car is mostly used on a street then BK harness bar is simpler to use but it does not add any safety, only improves restraints. proper rollbar like GMG or RSS is a much better thing to have but you will loose your rear seats. decide for yourself what is it you need most.

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Went through the same dilemma on protection vs. back seats. I ordered the AP roll bar. It should arrive tomorrow at the mechanic's shop. FM

Anyone know why the Brey-Krause Harness bar is not allowed for DE? After some calls we were told they are not allowed....not sure if this is our region or all of PCA? I think it is a great solution for street/track cars. As it provides much better support in the seat than the 3 pt stock belt. I think the Tequipment bolt in roll bars are available again. Good stuff.

Anyone know why the Brey-Krause Harness bar is not allowed for DE? After some calls we were told they are not allowed....not sure if this is our region or all of PCA? Must be a region thing; I see them frequently in the mid-atlantic area . . .

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It is commonly believed that use of 5 or 6pt harnesses without a roll bar is very unsafe. The thinking is that in a rollover incident, the harnesses will hold you upright in the seat and if the roof collapses you'll be in a bad way. Not sure how true or common this is, but it's my understanding that this is why harness bars are discouraged or banned.

My understanding is that race seats (non-reclining), the type we use with harnesses, really must be used with a roll bar. Reclining seats are designed to give if the roof collapses. Racing seats will not give and without a roll bar.... very bad things can happen. Hence, harness bars are not such a good idea for track duty, but suffice for AX and low roll over probability duty. Just my .02

Good explanation - but I wonder how many cars have ever rolled in DE? More reason to just go to a dedicated track car and stop this never ending cycle of non-street friendly mods.

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Yes I expected the thread would end up here I've decided to remove the back seats and go with either a GMG or RSS bar that bolts to the rear shock towers and seat belt mounts. I won't be welding or drilling the car just for DE. I'll also be buying a beater for kid hauling duty. I don't have the funds or the space for a dedicated track car, truck, trailer, etc. Maybe some time in the future. Plus I LOVE driving the C4S on the track as well as the street. Will post pics when done.