Spaniards are in revolution against Porsche

I want to explain something about this thread title: In Spain in our Soloporsche.com community, we are trying to give a solid step against the M96 engine failures. International english-spoken Soloporsche forum First of all we are compiling several dozens of IMS failures well documented. All of them are soloporsche users. We have opened some threads to get more information. Porsche AG workers had the chance to come into this discussion as anonymus user, to explain us about real percentage and what they really know. (Soloporsche admin are checking the real personality to avoid trolls) Are people suffering hysteria? No they aren't. We have lot of friends with engine failures and we know that the M96 engine is a complete design error. Engineers, Porsche Motorsport division, Mechanical experts, told us the real thing. Wendelin Wiedeking is the principal responsible. He tried to rise Porsche profits and order to develop a new platform (M96) to susbtitute air cooled family. This engine was developed half time, and half budget as it needed. Porsche was in troubles and Boxster and 996 were two new models to be the angular stone for a new era of benefits. Low cost materials, an IMS that never was to be born (as the new DFI engines), disalingment shaft problems, different expansion coefficient materials, low cost alluminun frame, a shaft that works in a false steel case that is closed in a twin alluminun cases,... Engines derived from GT1 block as GT3, GT3 RS GT2, TT were too expensive to produce. If they would decided to produce a light version of this block to be placed in Carrera models, surely would be the best decision, because we�ll never heard anything about blown engines. Besides it would cause a huge decrease of Porsche accounts due to the high cost of this platform. Porsche AG left this problem run until they changed the M97 engine for the new family without IMS, DFI, etc. They passed 11 years, so much time keeping the wrong thing. Meanwhile, there are a pile of blown engines in Porsche history, and whats more, there are a pile that are going to fail. I prefer to listen Porsche experts, not urban legends. I'm always talking about this with real arguments. I'm a bit tired to read that they are a very small percentage, and what we have to do, is to enjoy our cars. I've seen several failures with my eyes! What would you think if a Porsche expert engineer tells you that the best thing to prevent the failure, is to reinforce the IMS with a solid kit? (I don't sell anything, I don't have any commercial interest) What can we do if you're out of warranty? Pay for a reman engine or throw the car to the river from a bridge. Porsche should give us a new engine everytime It happens. We are trying to compile more data and some soloporsche people want to go to the justice court. Everyone know that It's too difficult to prove that It's a failed design, opposite a Judge, but we are very ungry to read a blown engine everyweek in our small Soloporsche comunity. I enjoy driving my 996, I love it and I want to keep on with it for many years. I reinforced the IMS with a hand made kit, use a racing lubricant, etc In Soloporsche, an expert motor engineer is developing a solution but It won't be ready yet because It's a critical idea and needs several test, but It would be probably the IMS 100% guard. Nevertheless there were thousand of failures here in Rennlist, Renntech, 6Speedonline, Pistonheads, Rennteam, and so on. We have lots of articles published in Total 911, Excellence, GT Purely Porsche magazines talking about this. We want to get a good finish, and join efforts to solve this embarrased problem. All your contributions will be welcome. Does anyone know a jugdgment that condemned Porsche AG? Joaquin

first step would be to collect REAL data about this then you can think about lawsuit. Is there a place we can look at the data you collected ? the data would have to contain the name of each owner and documentation of engine replacement from Porsche, I wonder if people are ready to share that kind of data...

Here we go.......

Shouldn't you just lease a new car? Or not buy a 996 in the first place? Then you and the rest of the community have nothing to worry about. Porsche didn't make you or anybody buy this car - and they especially didn't ask you to buy it used with no warranty of any kind. Those who bought this car used, did so because they're cheap, because of a known or perceived issue. If they were perfect, most people wouldn't consider buying one because they'd be a lot more expensive. This IMS issue is just like the Dilavar head studs of the 2.7's... no? People avoid those cars/engines unless they've been upgraded...

I have to admit that it would be nice for Porsche to at least admit that some parts have some problems and recommend and may be sell some replacement for those things like the IMS. At least that would make everybody feel better about Porsche as a brand who takes care of their customers and is backing up their products. Right now it feels like they care about people who buy brand new car or CPO cars, as they do replace engines without bad faith but still, they could go a step further. They should think long term. Nobody knows how many new car sales they are loosing because of that kind of behaviour but I bet it would be cheaper to do the right thing !

Good luck.

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They're probably gaining sales of new cars, because they have a warranty and people prefer warranties on cars that have expensive parts that may break. For those who want to assume some risk, they buy the inexpensive, depreciated model and hope it doesn't break out of warranty. Because what part of an $80,000 car is cheap to replace or repair? Especially if you don't do you own work. Now, a 964 was an $80,000 car, too, and it had its own share of issues that were slowly addressed over time by the creation of the 993! Why don't those Porsche owners complain and look for judgements against Porsche for a poorly designed engine that leaks at the cylinder-head interface, poorly designed flywheel, weak rod bolts - issues that actually cost more to rectify via an engine rebuild, than a 996 engine costs new with a 2yr warranty? What is it about the demographic of 996 owners that makes these Porsche owners consider suing Porsche when they knowingly purchased a used car with no warranty? Are they all lawyers out of work? Now that would be a study I'd be interested in reading about.

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Or pop off valves and chain tensioners with the SCs....

Maybe go after the octane booster companes too. Riding my bike past a club group of BMW's on the hwy I gagged from the retched smell of octane booster. I can still taste it 3 hours later. As far as IMS..... Remember any determination like many would like will involve dealers repair shops being tied up repairing or replacing. Porsche's come with a repair contract and like many other cars once its up the cars problems fall on the owner. That's by law. With the way Porsche does replace an entire engine if it fails I think that shows they do more than any other car company out there. You can call it a ticking time bomb but it's the nicest bomb I've ever had at my feet, driven over or had a chance to wait and watch blow up Legal determinations would be by country. Maybe judges and porsche dealers figure the economy is bad enough to rag on the Porsche company but you might find yourself travelling to Germany to buy one in the future if your country becomes a pain. Germans might not have much of a problem since they can actually drive the cars at proper speeds instead of screw the car up diving it under gay speed limits.

pass the and BTW Joaquin, its sad to see and you know how I am often saying - do the retrofit, get that bearing out...and after you hang around and see these things in puddles of parts and $15k of work to them... it starts to become something you wish people would listen too... for real not many % wise have issues, but the issue when it arises is a real biatch on the wallet! good luck on your soapbox, i am standing on mine too !! PS - I dont think Porsche will give a rats a$$ about your data (my $0.02)

I wish the engine were researched by performance rods and cranks manufacturers along with the cam guys. Even the heads manufacturers would be nice to see involved. If everything would be gone over like the 283, 327, 350 429. 427. 428, 402, 389, 396 and on and on we would be in hog heaven. With all that making going on prices would be cheaper and easy instead 14k

As this is a difficult issue to address by porsche....what porsche should do is reduce engine replacement costs to those with engines afflicted with IMS issues....so instead of 12-14g for an engine...how about 6-7? It wouldnt be such a big deal then.

or just help us understand what the bottom line is. if it can be addressed with preventative action like we have thru third party vendors here... then provide one straight from the factory kind of like what bmw did with their s52 engines with the rod bearings.... if it's not that simple, then like fty said, provide some sort of subsidized pricing for catastrophic failures on M96/7 engines. it's the least they can do. porsche has not done more than what other car companies would do. they've done a lot less here. we are absolutely left in the dark and it's to their benefit and our loss as owners.

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We do have aftermarket preventive parts and the nice fellows from LN and Flat6 will hopefully make a good living providing their kits to enthusiasts. Didn't Porsche subsidize the engine cost for a long time, as replacement engines were relatively inexpensive for quite a while in the $8,000 range (including x51 variants)? In general, did Porsche ever promise that this car would last longer than its original warranty? If not, why do so many people feel Porsche is obligated to do anything beyond the warranted period in time? It's not like this car has an unlimited warranty and they're not standing behind it.

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Yes, and I did point that out. But I prefer factory over third party wherever appropriate. Of course we don't expect it to last forever. And we're not. But a catastrophic engine failure is one thing and a coolant tank cracking is another. And a catastrophic engine failure that follows no real pattern. Low mileage or higher mileage they are numberous testimonies here even in this little online community. Do call out that a $14K engine replacement job because the engine got obliterated due to a weak design represents well over 50% in value of some of the earlier 996s. How happy would you be? And understand that this isn't unique to the M96. There are M97 failures as well. It's highly unpredictable and even with the LNS replacements, there will never be enough cars that know about a small vendor in Georgia or care to find out to prove that it truly resolves anything. Porsche should've stepped up. It's too late now, though, so not sure what this thread will accomplish except just add to the healthy pile which tells you already it's an ISSUE, Porsche.

Joaquin, great to hear from you again, shame about the circumstances. I didn't realize we had such a bevy of experts on Spanish law here. Although I'm sure they opine earnestly, I think you guys would be well served to find a firm in spain that is willing to litigate on behalf of the specific people who have suffered the failures. Find an expert who can be called upon to provide technical support. Don't think along the lines of US burden of proof standards, especially as they apply to class actions here. You need to focus on whether or not you have recourse in Spain. You don't need to collect data or prove pattern and practice to prove that you've been injured individually.

In Soloporsche forum we have a star thread in which we ask Porsche employees for information (as you know). We have thousand of visitors. An important person (Porsche Centre owner) told us that in the headquarters of Porsche Iberica (oficial spanish import dealer and distribuitor) they are very worried and concerned about all the true. They had an important internal meeting to manage this problem. Soloporsche forum is very important in the spanish Porsche lovers colective, and they know that we are not going to shut up our mouths. We know that in a single Porsche Centre in Barcelone they are changing about 40-50 a engines in a whole year, more or less one per week. People are very angry and don't accept as normal what It shouldn't be. The expensive cost of the extended warranty, the helplessness to renove the warranty if your car passes than 10 years-old, the neglect which suffer users who purchased it as a second hand car... imagine those who suffer a failure when we know that It's due to a fail desing. I'm not sure if soloporschers affected are going to organize a claim group or not, because they have to prove with an expert engineer report the bad design of the internal parts. They have to collect all the invoice bill, etc. If a courageus lawyer appears in this issue, he will have the chance to be well known. The Porsche expert engineer told us that the figures they have is around 20% of IMS failures.

I don't think you need a particularly courageous lawyer, just one who has successfully litigated against or obtained favorable settlements with automakers in spanish courts in the past. I would find this party first , explain the situation so that he sees that soloporsche community is a fertile ground for clients, and ask him how to proceed. He can determine what the best strategy is, whether that means a group claim or individual actions. He will know best what information is relevant in either circumstance, what questions to ask, whom to call as an expert, whom to subpoena for records. You can't win a race if you don't know the course, and an experienced litigator, one who has brought actions against automakers before, will be the navigator you need to keep you from spinning your wheels.

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I think they are including the costs of removing the engine when it originally broke down, prep and shipping cost to the remanufacturing....(in germany?), tear down, clean and rebuilding, testing the engine,warehousing, shipping around the world again and the porsche name. Oh silly me, I also forgot at least doubling the cost for profits I ran that through the bat computer and it came up with court corruption connections