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YOUR RESEARCHIMS discussion with my dealer this morning...
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Replace few years ago
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
It looks like the window "drifted" a little after the regulator was replaced a few years ago.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I have a cracked CV boot that will be replaced tomorrow, so I won't get the car tonight.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
They were sunshine cars that were just tossed into the garage for the winter and the oil was changed whenever the owner remembered.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
More importantly had the additive mix been changed with the change to Edge.
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Suggestion
Everytime I read an IMS thread the message I get from some of the repair shops on here is I have XX cars in the shop right now with IMS failure, fast forward a few months and xx more just rolled in.
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Suggestion
so I did the IMS and I feel pretty damn good about it, I would be very pissed off at myself if I had to spend a ton of cash to replace the motor when a few grand of "insurance" may have saved it.
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Suggestion
The problem isn't so much viscosity, it's that the synths get just as dirty (unless the filter changes occur at 3-5K miles but leave the old oil in, a really idiotic assumption) and dirty=abrasive.
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I took the C4S in to my local Porsche dealer this morning for the 100K mile oil change and to have an adjustment made to the passenger's side window due to wind noise.
As we discussed the car, he was asking me of any other issues that I wanted to have addressed now or in the future. I am beginning to have an occasional 2nd gear grind, especially in cold weather. Eventually, I'll need a transmission rebuild. During that discussion, I asked him about having the intermediate shaft bearing upgraded while the transmission is out. They will certainly do it if I ask them do, but he said something interesting. In his years of experience with the 996, he has NEVER seen a high mileage car suffer a bearing failure. Generally, they fail on lower mileage cars and earlier in the life of the vehicle. At this point, if mine was going to fail, it would have already failed. I thought this was interesting. I'll probably still have mine upgraded when the transmission is eventually out (I'll probably put this job off for a little while longer), but I just thought I'd pass along his comments.
More common on low milage cars, but it can happen anytime really. There is no prrof of anything, just observation from that one dealer and that one person.
I concur about lower mileages being more at risk.. We have 3 cars inbound now with IMS Bearing Failures, all of them under 55K miles.
BUT I have seen some engines with 120-150K have them as well.
ALL engines are at risk.
On a side note have you looked at the 2nd gear detent? It's cheep and it fixed my second gear problem. (It would not go all the way into gear it seemed).
My car's at almost 80K miles already, guess that's a good thing : )
I asked the IMS question of the senior tech at my local dealer about a month ago. (as he looked through 30 wheels lock keys to find the one that I broke).
He said that most of the failures he has seen (he has only seen 5) were all boxsters.
His hypothesis (not mine)is that they all had 1 thing in common, neglect. They were sunshine cars that were just tossed into the garage for the winter and the oil was changed whenever the owner remembered. Most of these cars never had there brake fluid changed and all had very black, very thin (water like) oil.
He told me about a customer who leased a 08 997 turbo, had done numerous DEs and cannon ball run, and never changed the oil. When he turned it in it had 27,000+ mile on it......AND NEVER HAD THE OIL CHANGED!!!!
Now you know why the API was forced to change oil formulations to be cleaner... Its because of the people who lease cars, treat them like hell and turn them in.
I haven't looked at the 2nd gear detent. Mine goes into gear fine, I just get a little grind sometimes. It typically happens downshifting, especially from 4th to 2nd. If I row through 3rd to get to 2nd or if I double clutch it, then it doesn't grind. I think it's my synchro...
I just hung up with the dealer - the oil is changed and the window is adjusted. I have a cracked CV boot that will be replaced tomorrow, so I won't get the car tonight. We discussed the bearing again, and I decided that I'm going to have the LN Engineering ceramic bearing installed the next time I do the clutch. While they've got it apart, I'll have the transmission issue fixed and I should be good for another 100,000 miles!
Sound typical of a syncro. I remember reading somewhere that skip shifting these trannys isn't gd for them especially coming down. I do it to though, hard habit to break.
Not to say that I don't believe in regular oil changes, and at far less mileage than the factory said (although in the first few years of owning my car under the factory warranty I think I did once go 10,000 miles). I typically change mine very 4,000-5,000 miles. But with respect to the IMS bearing, it is sealed and theoretically not effected by the engine oil (unless the seals have failed). So would oil changes really effect the bearings. I would think that at least on the low mileage engines it is more likely the bearing failing due to other reasons then the frequency of oil changes.
The IMS Bearing IS effected by oil services!!
Because oil that is thin from being contaminated by fuel and coolant intrusion, then ran at over 220F for thousands of miles becomes very thin..
The thin oil is easily passed by the outer IMS bearing Seal and effectively washes the permanent lubrication from the IMS bearing. This is stage 1 of the 4 stage failure process.
Oil that is changed at 5K miles doesn't see the fuel and coolant intrusion or the temperatures that lead to viscosity breakdown.
We had a discussion about the lower levels of Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or ZDDP now in popular oils like Mobil 1. As a Porsche dealer, they use only Porsche recommended oils. They stock Mobil 1 and Castrol. My dealer back when I lived in Indiana was switching to Valvoline in all Porsche engines.
We did briefly discuss Brad Penn oils, but the dealer doesn't use them. FWIW, the independent mechanic that I sometimes use in the Denver area is now using Schaeffer's Synthetic Oil in all Porsche engines. I'm running it in the Cayenne right now.
Oh yeah... to hijack my own thread a little more... I did see this for sale at the dealer this morning when I dropped off the C4S. It was sweet!
http://www.prestigeimportsporsche.co...36a1042551.htm
Well, if you really like castrol 5w40 you will have to wait until vw, mercedes, and porsche recertify the oil do to a formulation and name change. If you go to your local auto parts store there is no 5w40 castrol syntec to be had.
Are you sure about this? I swear that NAPA has it! I thought I was stocking it the other day in the store.
https://napaonline.com/Catalog/Resul...y=1&N=0&Nao=10
Hey Ed... your missing out! ...[ 968 HiJacKer ] That 968 is a sweet machine - and a very early one at that (note the recessed hood badge) That seems like a high asking price but the Pictures sure look like a well cared for 968. Have you ever driven one? If you like ... you buy the Lattes tomorrow and I will bring the Cabriolet.... ;-)
Yes they did! It looks like the window "drifted" a little after the regulator was replaced a few years ago. I guess I was afraid to crack the glass and I didn't tighten the bolts up enough! They had to remove the door panel to realign it, so they just charged me for 1 hour of labor.
Yup, Castrol Syntec is now changing to Castrol Syntec Edge. Every other grade is in stores except for the 5w-40. I checked 6 pepboys and 2 autozone locations and not one of them had a single bottle.
If you stocked it on the shelf of the NAPA store where you work you either have old inventory (Castrol Syntec 5w-40 instead of Castrol Syntec Edge) or you were stocking a different grade.
One day deep in the northern GA mountains a guy thought, gee I have a sucessful business building air cooled engines, sending them and rebuild kits all over the world. I need something else to do. I know I'll get another talented party and create a fake problem, design, build, and test a soultion to it and then burn up the internet promoting the solution to the fake problem.
Yeah, I'm sure thats what happened.
My mistake on engine oil effecting the bearing, I thought the outer seal would pretty much seal out the engine oil unless it was failing.
I have been running Castrol Syntech 5w-50 for a while now. Is it still available in Syntech and/or Edge? More importantly had the additive mix been changed with the change to Edge. I have used the Castrol Syntech over Mobil 1 due to the higher ZDDP. If they have reduced the additives then it may be time to go to a boutique oil.
Also, I think the Mobil 1 0w-40 has a hgher ZDDP than the other weights, but I don't want to run a 0w in my engine.
Finally, the IMS failures were happening before "one shop" started addressing the issue more aggressively and it has actually been more than one shop. I do agree that the actual percentage of cars with failing IMS are probably not that high, but are still too high, and failure is catastrophic. And Porsche has redesigned the IMS/bearing several times, probably nut just for the heck of it and in the new engine there is no IMS. If the overall total percentage of failures is so low why hasn't Porsche documented and published the stats to refute the rumors/perceptions? It seems that they have been very evasive on all the issues effecting the M96/97 engines.
that's not even close to what I said...They are just using scare tactics as part of their marketing plan, plain and simple, and it seems to be working very well.
You don't need to read anything else into my comment.
I saw 5w-50 in Castrol Syntec Edge in the store. They advertise it as "classic car formula". 5W-50 is not Porsche approved is it? It doesn't say so on the back of the bottle like 5w-40 does.
The 968 is indeed sharp, one of the rarest modern Porsches around.
I wouldn't do a cab or an auto, but neat car none the less.
As for your 2nd gear issue, I would try the detent (I've modified the stock detent before, which can also work) and flushing the transmission fluid before paying the dealer to replace it. If they still have the same policy, they probably won't be taking it apart anyway.
As for the IMS, I'm on my 4th 996, this one w/158k miles, original IMS bearing, on all of them. No issues yet.
Well then, I certainly do apologize for reading into your comments. I wonder what other examples we might find of that being done? Hey, how about scare tactics as a part of a marketing plan?
Not sure if Castrol 5w-50 is "Porsche Approved." But then I am running non N spec tires and use Peak coolant not the overpriced Porsche coolant.
And when my cylinder head cracked and caused an intermix I did not buy the approved Re manufactured engine from Porsche, I fixed the old one. And if I was going to get a "new" engine I would be buying one of Jake's not one from Porsche.
So a little curious. Everytime I read an IMS thread the message I get from some of the repair shops on here is I have XX cars in the shop right now with IMS failure, fast forward a few months and xx more just rolled in. Well, I have read a LOT of IMS threads going back yeasr on here so if you add up ALL those cars geez how many 996's were sold? Seems like every single 996 has had an IMS issue. But then I personally know more than one 996 driver and not one has had IMS. I am freindly with a few of the local dealer service guys and again with all 996's sold in South Florida they all tell me it is a RARE occurence.
Now don't get me wrong I did the IMS but come on I really don't think it is as bad as some on here make it out to be.
OK, flame away but just my .02
Over years of instructing at PCA and other club track events, I've yet to meet anybody that's had the issue. I know it's happened to many people, but I haven't worried about it on my own cars. Working on 996s and other cars, I've seen enough things break to worry about one thing that much, life is too short to worry.
Well, recalling when Mobil 1 came on the market back in the mid-70s, the big selling point of paying (then) $5/qt (vs <$1/qt for regular oil) was that the synths
don't
lose their viscosity properties under extended service. Although Mobil suggested Mobil-1 could go 15K between changes, there were independent tests at the time that showed virtually no breakdown after constant running up to three times that mileage.
The problem isn't so much viscosity, it's that the synths get just as dirty (unless the filter changes occur at 3-5K miles but leave the old oil in, a really idiotic assumption) and dirty=abrasive. Even a small amount of abrasive-containing oil getting inside the IMS bearing is a likely route to early failure.
Furthermore, even synths when old and contaminated tend to become corrosive (albeit not as much as a traditional oil), and (again, not as much as traditional oil) act as a solvent on rubber-based components...like bearing seals.
Given that so many Porsches are driven only occasionally, a perfunctory 5K-mile oilchange interval would not necessarily be sufficient. It should be stressed that the "or every 6 months" clause is not one to ignore. Someone who drives 2, 3 or 5K miles a year should change the oil by time interval, not mileage.
I am with those of you that feel there are vendors that are working this forum hard and more power to them, making $$$$$. Porsche North Scottsdale told me yes it does happen but since 1999 when the 996 came out less than 10 911's have have had an engine failure, and half of them were leased cars.
I am concerned about it and find myself listening closely to the engine after I park the car, its my d/d now and I will most likely never have the extra $$$ for a retrofit. I'll change the oil every 5K like I've been doing. I think its way over dramatized on this and the other 2 forums, its easy to get sucked into the whole, "catastrophic engine failure". I never in my 53 years heard it put that way.
I just went over the numbers with a 996 owner who recently suffered an IMS failure while driving on the freeway. Not good. I have to admit that it has me doing some serous thinking.
IMS failures are rare. IMS failures can cost 30 to 50 percent of the value of a 996 to repair! I see it like buying life insurance. The odds of dying young and leaving the family in financial distress are low but the consequences are bad. If I had a car with IMS, I'd do the mod. A few thou to ensure the value of my car makes sense to me at least.
I'm 25 and I would never get life insurance! It's like people at work, they take a trip to the States and they get life insurance for that trip...common.
I know they want to be safe and all, but let's get real here... In life you have to take some risk. I don't even think a trip to the states for shopping is any risk what so ever. But these are a different type of breed.
When IMS Failures strike an early 996 they can cost MORE TO REPAIR than the vehicle's current value. We have three clients in that position right now with their cars in our hands after the engines were completely compromised after an IMSBF.
I was in the "bah, just do the IMS when the clutch needs fixing" camp as well, than when I had a nice oil puddle under my car I thought it might be a good idea to see whats up, and it was indeed the IMS leaking and not the RMS. so I did the IMS and I feel pretty damn good about it, I would be very pissed off at myself if I had to spend a ton of cash to replace the motor when a few grand of "insurance" may have saved it. It may be indeed be a small percentage of 996's that "blow up" but why gamble?
If I bought another 996 tomorrow I would probably do the bearing right away, it just makes sense and I was never one of those guys who lost any sleep over it.
Just my .996 cents
Marc, You should have played the Lottery that day.. Do you have any idea how lucky you were to get that discharge of oil?? Any idea how lucky you were to notice it?
After readiing all the latest 'my car made a sqeak' 'my car made a fart' ' my car made a zipping sound'...and all the conclusions lead to the BS IMS I just want to puke. And then the god almighty IMS fixer chimes in again to sell more fear. Give me a break. This is very tiring. Plain and simple...either buy the car or not. Drive or not. Yep there is a IMS issue for very few. Its terrible when it happens to you. But for the general population here I think we all could care less. Flame me.
I don't understand why there's so much hostility when it comes to the IMS issue. The simple solution is if you feel it's b.s.then don't replace it. It's your car, so it's your option as to whether or not you do it. The funny thing is that seems a lot of people are happy to say that its propaganda on Jake behalf,but when I did my bearing, I bought it from LNE,did the work myself,which is an option anyone can exercise. Also he doesn't install every bearing there is a list of shops across the country that also install them. Just my .02
Sorry, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that these aren't the most reliable engines that were ever made. It's easy to pretend that it's just fearmongering until it's YOUR engine that's blown.
Well shifting from 4th to 2nd on most cars doesn't get the 2nd gear near enough in speed to mesh easy.
As far as the oil side of the thread goes I use the slippery stuff porsche isn't paid to say is good anymore.
The IMS part is not a very nice part to be failing the way it can. I'd think it would be nice if rod and piston bearing could be freshened up also but eh. If you are going to wind it out whatevers. Enjoy it while you can.
Looks like its my time in the barrel. Just have a hard time sitting quiet reading all this 'lemming' stuff. I have to agree there is a problem with the IMS.....all I'm saying is the marketing plan is tiring.
"add up ALL those cars geez how many 996's were sold?" Well MiamiC70 that is really a big part of this 996 issue. I just looked over 911 & PorscheWorld "911 Special" article and it answers the question.
150,000 996'ers built
(in 7 years) - verses 66,000 993's - 53,000 964's - 81,000 Carrera 3.2's (all in 14 years). Add in the 200,000 (just up to 2006) Boxsters ...and you have M96 WaterPumper engines out numbering close to ALL the Air cooled motors ever built. (just N/A Street 911s, not Turbo racers etc.)
So when you compare ANY prior 911 series to the 996 on any issue the Numbers are going to be large. We could assume the number of early Clutch and Break replacements in 996 & Boxster is Twice the rate of Air Cooled cars... and so what!
And about those low Prices for 996? What if it was just supply and demand - and has nothing to do with Internet chatter???
just my $0.02. do we all have engines prone to this anomoly? answer: yes. did we all purchase these exceptional vehicles with this potential anomoly? answer: yes. should we all worry ourselves over our decision? answer: no. keep an eye out for signs of ims failure. evaluate when clutch is out (as well as rms). drive it like you stole it.
An excellent point that's easy to overlook when you can only glimpse the quantity of issues/complaints, without getting any sense of the percentages. (Porsche factory hasn't help in this.)
Any chance you can describe the modifcation Ahmet? My trans will be out for a clutch job at some point, maybe even this year.
My good workmate GNR996 lost a motor to a failed IMS. It happens ok.
I don't lose any sleep though. Mine is driven often and hard and the stock IMS will be fine until I replace it with the LNS piece...when I do the clutch job. No drama, just common sense..
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