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YOUR RESEARCHDiagnostic oil for 1k intervals
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Use oils
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You conduct the oil analysis on the well used oils to determine how the engine is doing and see how well oil stands up to the mileage.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I think I have a clean, easy process for disposal, which was always the hard part years ago.
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Suggestion
As time goes on there will be plenty of other things that will need repair/replacement...you just do it and move on.
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Suggestion
Change your oil at 5,000 miles (or one Spring change and one Fall change) and send it off for analysis.
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Suggestion
Why not just change the filter at 1k and use oil from that for analysis - top up with cheap m1 from wallymart .
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Suggestion
Why don't you change the oil with a high quality oil like; Joe Gibbs DT 40, Motul X-Cess, Mobil 5W50, etc....and extract oil samples every 500 miles, and send those out for UOA.....and chart/graph that data?
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Seeking recommendations for oil (and filter if relevant) for frequent (1k) change intervals.
So cheap and stable is basically what I'm after, emphasis on cheap.
Reason for 1k intervals - oil analysis.
Reason for oil analysis - I like numbers. I like diagnostics. Simple as that.
More info:
1. City driver, no track, daily driver.
2. I try to keep trip length as long as possible, but short trips are inevitable.
3. Weather - midwest.
4. Time interval - 1 to 2 months.
5. Current oil - mobil1 0w40, for no particular reason.
6. Past oil - always mobil1 synthetic, whatever viscosity the owner manual said, I'd have to look it up.
Feel free to ask for further clarification. Thanks.
Oh, yes, further clarification please.
In the meantime, my advice would be to just use whatever oil you have been using. Why not continue to use this oil? I see no reason to probably compromise the engine's lubrication for the sake of some oil analysis numbers.
Speaking of numbers, price a replacement engine (sans a suitable core). The numbers will scare you into I hope using the right oil in your effort to gather some other numbers.
Be sure when you collect a sample of oil you let the oil drain a bit. You do not want to catch the first bit that comes out of the oil drain hole neither do you want to the last dregs that come out either.
Some shops that collect oil for analysis use the oil filter housing oil but this is risky. My experience is this oil can be quite full of stuff and the analysis results can have some metal PPM readings off the charts. 'course, these shops -- big rig shops -- use the high numbers to justify an oil/filter service. (Oh, the oil/filter service: 10+ gallons of oil and a huge filter, then labor on top of that. Oil service can run to nearly $500 in some cases.)
I don't think the filter is relevant. Stick to the paper cartridge, since it sounds like you're going to throw a lot of them away.
I buy TOTAL Quartz Energy 9000 5W40, Full Synthetic in 5-quart jugs for $39 (about 8 bucks a quart) - it's the oil my indy recommends.
Is the data you're going to collect - since the intervals are so short - worth the cost of collecting it? I'm not arguing or trying to talk you out of it - just curious. I thought the point of UOA was to determine a baseline and then notice any (a) trends, or (b) sudden changes. A boatload of 1K oil changes with no historical data seems...like random data points.
Yes, good point, I have no problem with the Mobil1 0w40, and at $22/5qtjug it's the cheapest.
You're right.
Ok so there's no baseline. That's okay with me.
I still want some numbers, so of course I'm going ahead.
Why do I want numbers? Because my car is in the high risk category- low miles, etc. I sleep better when I have numbers, not just here, but in my job (software dev.).
Back to cost:
1. Filters - dealer is $30+ per filter. Mahle is $11, but no free shipping. I'd like to get something tomorrow, and I'd like it to be $11. Any acceptable filters avail. at chain stores?
Phil, this is a meaningless waste of money and oil.
You conduct the oil analysis on the well used oils to determine how the engine is doing and see how well oil stands up to the mileage.
Normally driven car will show no oil wear on even the non-synthetic oil after 1,000 miles. Your tests will be worthless as oil will be changed too frequently and it will not show any wear or metal deposits. All of your data will be meaningless, as you will be essentially sending the samples of brand new oil to the lab.
Mahle filters for $9.75 on Amazon - free 2-day shipping if you have Prime.
By high-risk cars, do you mean the ones that (per anecdotal evidence) suffer sudden, catastrophic failures? If so, isn't using thousand-mile-interval data points to try to predict an essentially unpredictable catastrophic failure sort of like using a rectal thermometer to predict whether you're going to get struck by lightning?
Even if you notice something you believe to be symptomatic of a pending failure, the options are what? Continue driving it to see if it actually fails, or pay someone to take it apart and determine whether the blip in some metal content was just a bad additive pack vs. a spun bearing?
If you've put together a spreadsheet or other data collection methodology, maybe it would help me wrap my head around what you're up to. Of course, my understanding may not matter to you, and I may just be incapable of understanding it anyway. *shrug*.
Good luck with the project. If nothing else, you're going to develop some mad oil change skills and get to know with the staff at the nearest shop that has an oil collection tank...
(you are also going to rob Krazy K of the Oil Change King title...this may not sit well with him.)
Why not just change the filter at 1k and use oil from that for analysis - top up with cheap m1 from wallymart . Hengst filters from pelican are what I use. I'd be interested to see the uoa trends you post here - and bet you could go way beyond 5k before the oil shows any issues
A similar type question was ask of the North America Mobil Rep at Porscheplatz during the races at Road America this month. His response was use the cheapest oil you can buy. Does not even need to be synthetic. At 1,000 mile intervals, it doesn't matter.
Good luck with your M96 experiment. God speed.
I think KK would be proud of this. If you're seriously thinking of doing this and the fact that you're in the Midwest, you should look into waste oil heaters.
Phil,
I'm a bit of a numbers guy so in a way I can understand your quest. While I can't say I'd go through the hours and $$ needed for this, I would be curious to see the spreadsheet after you collect enough data.
You got it Adam, and thanks for your support.
Believe it or not, it's actually easier for me to do it vs. not.
I think I have a clean, easy process for disposal, which was always the hard part years ago. Not high tech (I wish), just a $4 container w/screw-on lid from waldo's, and/or any other disposable thing I come across.
You're not going to see very much in a 1,000 mile oil change interval. Unless you're already throwing tons of aluminum, copper and iron.
Buy your Blackstone kits in bulk of 6 to save a little coin.
Just my 2 cents: hopefully, engine crap does not show
1 mile
after any 1000-mile interval oil is collected. Then it would have been 999 miles too late.
In all seriousness, I am curious why not do the checks at 500-mile intervals? 0r 750? 1500? And this line of questioning can go on forever. Bottomline: your car, your money, your choice. All the best.
agreed, def the metal one. they have (at least at an AZ by my house) a bin of the oil filter wrench heads and i just grabbed a few and took them out to the car to see which one fit. If you want, I can go look at mine and see what size it is if you dont have that info yet.
Lex has a good point that 1000 miles may not be enough time to collect anything significant in the oil. The downside of increasing the intervals would be a lack data points and/or time. Keeping the intervals the same might help eliminate some bias, but then again differing driving conditions could potentially override all of that, right?
Why don't you change the oil with a high quality oil like; Joe Gibbs DT 40, Motul X-Cess, Mobil 5W50, etc....and extract oil samples every 500 miles, and send those out for UOA.....and chart/graph that data? Once you start seeing wear metals at a level you don't like.....rinse and repeat (using the same brand/viscosity).
Aside from the oil and filters, with that many oil/filter changes you better order lots of the aluminum drain plugs and washers. They strip ever other oil change. Better yet, invest in the LN Spin on Oil filter adapter and anodized drain plug. Worth every penny IMHO. Also, I'm not on board with your plan and frequency. I know you think you might gain statistically relevant data but I don't think so with that frequency. You will have to use the same brand and weight of oil every time, and the same filter, otherwise your data will be useless. Choose carefully. You will have to find a way to filter out the useless data, normal aging, keep track of your mileage and driving (Like this 1,000 miles was mostly city driving, lots of engine revs and starts...this 1,000 miles was city/highway driving, not so many starts, cruising which is far easier on the engine...and so on...)
In the end all this kinda takes the fun out of owning a fabulous car. I recommend changing the oil/filter so you know how to do it...then drive the crap out of it like it wants to be driven! Change your oil at 5,000 miles (or one Spring change and one Fall change) and send it off for analysis. As time goes on there will be plenty of other things that will need repair/replacement...you just do it and move on.
Yes I like the idea of high quality oil.
Or one targeted to my needs (history of storage periods with no particular regimen, and who knows what condition the seals are in). But I don't know which targeted oil that would be.
So with longer change intervals, is there a way to look for metal in filter more frequently than twice a year? Or maybe that's irrelevant when doing UOA, I don't know.
This thread is so full of LOL. Other non Porsche people will stumble onto our forums and finally understand why some Porsche drivers are the way they are.
Since you can pull the filter without dumping all the oil - yes. You can pull the filter cartridge and check for stuff, install a new filter cartridge, and add a half quart of oil (or however much is needed to bring it back to full).
There can be debris in your filter that won't necessarily be reflected in your OUA. Examples: sealant, chunks of chain guide, and any metal that brakes or fatigues away. The UOA primarily shows you the results of metals wearing.
Still hoping to understand what exactly it is you're up to.
If you're just interested in gathering data, a more interesting study (in my unsolicited opinion...) would be to find a group of similar cars - say, twenty 1999 911's, get UOA's over time for all of the cars, throw out any outliers, and come up with a baseline UOA "fingerprint" that a super-**** buyer could use to know if wear metals for a newly-acquired car are consistent with similar vehicles...
