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YOUR RESEARCHPotential Catastrophic Water Pump Failure
Leading reported evidence
Replace before it fails
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Read evidence and context
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Leading evidence: 'Replace before it fails' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'biggest concern' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check anything, or looked' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suspected cause · Original poster
And I thought the IMS bearing issue was my biggest concern
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Suggestion
So let me ask you Tad...you never heard anything strange, or checked anything, or looked under the car?
Check termostat many times the impelers are blocked there
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Suggestion
check the termostat many times the impelers are blocked there...
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Suggestion · Original poster
Without opening up the engine and trying to go thru all the water passages they recommended just putting on a cheap pump and hope for the best.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Took my car to my indy to look into a slight coolant leak. About a mile from the shop I started hearing a screeching sound. By the time I arrived coolant was pouring out from under the car.
They took the pump off today and the plastic impeller was almost totally gone plus the bearing had fallen apart and only 1 ball bearing was found. Without opening up the engine and trying to go thru all the water passages they recommended just putting on a cheap pump and hope for the best.
Biggest bummer is I was getting some last minute details addressed before selling the car. Looks like I'll just hang onto it and try to enjoy while it's running. Really no way I could sell without taking a huge loss.
And I thought the IMS bearing issue was my biggest concern
My life lesson from this - Water pump replacement should be part of your regular maintenance program!
Tad
Good morning Tad. You have a few problems here. First, do not have your Indy just throw some cheap water pump on there. Get an OE water pump such as Pierberg or an original Porsche water pump. This is something to not go cheap on. Second, the ground down impeller parts are circulating through your engine getting stuck in small crevices like in your cylinder head. So, soon, your engine will create hot spots in the cylinder heads and it will crack, allowing oil and water intermix, and your engine is toast. So let me ask you Tad...you never heard anything strange, or checked anything, or looked under the car? Describe the coolant leak. Describe the all of a sudden screeching noise. Sounds pretty bad. Looks like selling your car now is not a good idea...unless you disclose to a buyer exactly where things stand.
I spoke at length with my Indy, the most respected Porsche repair place in town, about my options. We went through all the scenarios of what could or couldn't happen. He has dealt with probably dozens and dozens of these water pump failures (He said mine was the worse, never dealt with a broken bearing) and we determined at this point, put a cheap water pump on and see what happens. So I think putting a good water pump on at this point would be a total waste of my money. I am going with his advice and putting a cheap water pump on, as far as I am concerned the motor is junk anyway. I'll continue to drive and if something else happens, so be it. We also discussed the noise and he said in his experience by the time I heard the noise most of the damage had already been done, there is very little advance warning.
Or I might just sell the car as is with full disclosure and take my lumps.
This is the problem with these cars and why their resale value will never approach other models, there is so many ways to have a catastrophic failure at some point. But a water pump? I've dealt with cars for closing in on 50 years and I have seen such a poorly designed water pump that could cause this much carnage.
And like I said in my original post, I bought this car knowing the original IMS bearing could let go at any moment so it was a disposal purchase from the start.
Maybe it's time for another "What's my car worth" post...
The first indication of a problem. Hind site says I should have had it towed but drove it the 10 miles to the indy.
How many miles were on the broken water pump? I didn't see your original post, but curious how you knew the IMSB was on its way out when you purchased.
I have no idea how many miles were on the broken pump, obviously too many. I do know it was a Porsche pump.
As for the IMSB, as far as I knew it was still going strong but you know the way that goes. My thinking when buying the car was it could go out at any time.
At every 60,000 miles on a 996 or whenever there is any seepage out of the water pump.... On any car that I own, the water pump is a regular maintenance item. Including the Ferrari 355 where the water pump is $700. It gets replaced before it fails.
So you already invested the money in
replacing the IMSB?
But don't think it is worth trying to have a reverse flush done of the entire system?
Did you already spend a lot of money on preventive maintenance since the mileage with the 90,000 + miles, or did it have a good maintenance history?
Fear mongering does exacerbate the IMSB "issue", if you figured that, what made you proceed instead of looking at other options?
Very likely original. I didn't learn about the nuances of 996 until after buying, much like many others. Agreed that's its a poor design, guess they should have taken a note from a Honda or Toyota playbook on that part.
Probably should have taken a note from Toyota on the whole car, really.
Seconding the idea of disconnecting as much as you can & flushing the thing the best you can before throwing another pump on there.
The BMW E36 series (including M3) came with plastic impeller water pumps. Many deteriorated and grenaded, just like the 996 pumps. The rage was to replace with a metal impeller water pump. Many still will only use metal. So it is not just a Porsche 996 thing...
-Tom
2003 C2
1997 E36 M3 race car
1995 E36 M3 street car (recently sold)
The ironic thing about this whole issue is I never would have expected the water pump to be my cars demise unless of course I ran it hot which I think I didn't do if my gauge was to be believed. On the bright side it might last a while with no issues. But whatever it does it's pretty much ruined any resale value it had.
The whole point of this post was to alert owners to the fact that they need to make the water pump a regular maintenance item as many replies have indicated. If I had known this I would have already replaced it especially with the limited maintenance records that came with the car.
Thanks for everyone's constructive advice
[QUOTE=Billup;17459030]Fear mongering does exacerbate the IMSB "issue", if you figured that, what made you proceed instead of looking at other options?
This is my 3rd 911 over my years. I bought it from a friend of mine that sold it to me at a fair price. We discussed the IMSB at length and we both agreed that it was worth the gamble not to worry about it since most don't fail but it was possible. Water pump or bore scoring issues never were brought up.
So why did I proceed?, That glorious sound! I'm not sure what exhaust changes were done but when I first drove it I fell in love with it. That and a couple drinks..
I guess it also helped that I worked for IMSA for 6-7 years as a Tech Inspector with the last 4 years working with the GT3 series. Just love the cars..
BMW N54 and N55s come with an electric water pump.
They fail without any bearing noises and can cause catastrophic overheating before the driver realizes.
Replacement is not a fun job.
Definitely not just a 996 issue.
So what you are saying is my ignorance to not read every post has helped lead to my issue? Hardly, poor design did.
After the fact I did search water pump and found many as you state but no title that would have alerted me to read further.
These cars can have a host of issues. I started reading about the IMSB thing first and it grew from there. I never got a pre purchase inspection and so far been lucky. I started replacing items after doing more reading over the last year or so. One of them was the water pump, not knowing how old it was. Turns out it had been replaced because I could see the gasket was cut. Hopefully it didn�t experience what you did with a previous owner. I don�t think you can be faulted for not reading or knowing everything about these cars. I enjoy the reading and discussions here, not everyone who owns these cars are going to dig as deep as some here do.
Yeah, RL is great, but it's scattered info. Certainly tough to catch it all. Hang in there.
Edit Add: there are a lot of brand new 996 owners out there that have not been part of the 996 network for long. As such, there is a lot of information you need to know to properly service your car and why. I would highly recommend that everyone buy the book "Porsche 996: The Essential Porsche Companion". It is an incredible book that will not only tell you what will go wrong wrong and why, it will give you a manual of what to replace, when and why. In essence, it is your checklist.
DBJoe, not certain if you are joking or serious. Either way, what you are suggesting is a reality.
What I wrestle with is that we are at gen 1 electric motors. Then comes gen 2, gen 3 and so on. Issues will arise, problems will occur that we don't know about. Future costs and resale values are unknowable.
IMHO, better off getting the engine rebuilt from someone that knows what they are doing. It will most likely be cheaper in the long run. Gas isn't going away if Porsche and Exxon has their way with the development of their renewable biofuel. Just evolving from petroleum to biofuel. Porsche is testing it now in their Super Cup series. It's only a matter of time until all oil companies are producing their version.
The question we can't answer yet is if a rebuilt 996 with an EV motor or a rebuilt "gas" powered engine will be more desirable 20 years from today. Time will tell.
Just wait till you ride in another EV. When you mash the pedal they all feel about the same, just different degrees of whiplash.
They still have water pumps though :P
Serious, as it relates to replacing the coolant pump. Having a conniption fit over a car's water pump replacement is ridiculous. Our cars are all approaching 20 years old. Our cars are racking up the miles. Mine is at 147K miles. Hell, I didn't replace the original water pump until around 112K. It is not an inherently a bad design, stuff just wears out. The water pump has a plastic impeller by design. If it were a metal impeller, once the bearings get a little sloppy the metal impeller would grind away the block, making your entire engine toast. My old MG ate water pumps for breakfast. I think the most I could get out of one is about 30K miles. I get the OP's concern over potential catastrophic water pump failure.. but just replace it and move on. Other stuff will break or fail. You've got to just live with that reality.
check the termostat many times the impelers are blocked there...
and regarding being cheap with a temp waterpump, youre saving 50 or 100USD on the pump... is it really worth it?(labor stays the same, it doesnt make it easier to fit in a cheap one...)
Final word on replacing the pump every 3 years.... its a bit overboard. normally, its changed at the same time as the belt in more modern cars, so yes, its a consumable piece and not lifetime. but i would say every time you change the belt.
I do know in my case, my gas powered 996 will be more valuable to me.
I wouldn't mind buying an EV.
I've considered getting a Tesla Model 3 with dual motor.
But it would be a "throw away" car.
It would be just "transportation" and would be disposed of when I was through with it.
What's keeping me from getting one is my wife doesn't want an EV, and when I bring up one, she's hesitant for me to get one.
Of course if Tesla did a better job at quality, then she might be convinced.
The build quality of the Tesla's we've looked at looks a lot like 1980's GM quality IMHO.
Unfortunately I pointed out inconsistent panel gaps, insects caught in the paint, poorly stitched interiors, and carpet issues.
There is also the impracticality of traveling in an EV.
When your destination is not near super chargers, range anxiety rears it's ugly head.
It reminds my wife of our driving a diesel Mercedes in the late 1990s and early 2000s and having to hunt for Diesel.
She prefers gasoline over anything else so we don't have to hunt for the elusive fuel/electricity.
You stated that you never would have guessed that a water pump could take out an engine. I wasn't trying to imply anything other than it is critical piece of preventative maintenance, with many posts about it.
Your right. Looks just like a GM Saturn in my humble opinion. But you are talking to a guy that goes to the art museum and just scratches his head. Guess I am not cultured enough to appreciate the Saturn nor Tesla. 😁
Sorry to hear about the water pump. I just had this conversation with Texas squirrel yesterday about the water pump on mine.
why not try the reverse flush? I don’t know what’s involved but why not try it (in my mind it seems easy) as the damaged one has to come off. What is the price difference between a cheap one and a Porsche one? Depending on how you you drive you may get a lot of use out of your car before the engine goes pop. All cars, especially as they age will have Achilles heels that can kill the car. I don’t think it’s just a Porsche or 996 issue.
Thanks for sharing, it helps to vent. In the end make your decision, don’t lose sleep and still enjoy it.
No, say it isn�t so. I spend a lot of time following various things on here, but have been lucky so far with my choice of car and decisions made so far in servicing it.
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