Which coilover, x74, H&R, PSS9/10, KW V3 lowers the car the least

My front bumper is only 5.75" off the ground now. With the driveways, speedbumps etc. in CO, if I lower it much more I'll be scraping more then I already am. I now am going sideways at those locations as is. I want to upgrade my suspension with coilovers, I track my car 1-2 times per month. This is the main reason to upgrade. I already have GT3 sways and adjustable droplinks. Thanks a lot.

I think KW V3's, with a minimum drop of .8" similar to M030 ROW. PSS's and H&R are min. 1"+ and so is X74. I've also heard that they are really smooth for daily driving, compared to most coilovers. Good luck.

I'm not sure about the others, but the X74 is probably lower than you want to go.

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It's the price you pay for coilovers. Just run a higher profile street tire (like a 245/40 front which will be around 26") and get your 1" back. -td

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is there a Hooters somewhere in Texas involved in this ? lol sorry Tom.....

You can adjust any ride height you desire with PSS9's

Yes, but even adjusted all the way up with PSS9 or PSS10, you will still be 1.1 inch (30mm or so) lower than US stock.

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there is enough adjustment raise it more.

If I adjusted PSS9's as high as they would go, would this compromise the handling. Is the adjustment easy enough to lower before a track weekend and then raise it back up for DD . . . that would be perfect. Lowering the car would help with C.O.G and would have to help handling. When raising and lowering with PSS9's, nothing else has to be adjusted i.e. alignment etc? Thanks a lot.

You do need an alignment when you raise or lower the PSS9's. You could never get it back to the exact same spot, so camber will always be off. George, do you have PSS9's installed and cranked up to the top (or as high as they will go)? What is your height at the fender wells with what size tires? I'm just quoting Bilstein.

I have a 2004 C2 with 225/40-18 and 285/30-18. The height of my fender wells were about 27in (f & r) with the stock suspension. With the PSS9’s you can easily adjust anywhere from 25.25 to 26.5. I tried all different ride heights and settled on 25.75. It looks good and has enough clearance for me. An alignment would be required. My camber and toe changed a lot (f & r) however i lowered mine over an inch. Also, you may want to consider the x74 suspension. It is stiff, good ride height and comes with sway bars.

I have a complete X74 kit for sale for the C2.. Excellent condition. Was used for about 200 miles if any one is interested.

Excellent info George, exactly what I was looking for, but couldn't find! My 02 C2 with the same wheels is about 26 1/2 all around (+_ 1/8"), and because of driveway clearance issues, I was also looking to go 25 3/4" with the PSS9's I have, but didn't think I could. Excellent news! Did you get your car corner balanced before the alignment? Any side shots of your car? If oyu have the stock front bumper, what is the leading (foremost, that would hit the ground first) point height?

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I am out of the US and will post some pics next week. I didn't get it corner balanced. I set the springs equally side to side and have no problems. You may want to download the installation instructions and you will get a good idea of how the adjustment is made. From memory, my stock bumber has about 5 inches clearence and that is enough for most situations.

Thanks, George. No rush, I'm still waiting for parts (2-3- weeks). I have all the manuals, both from Bilstein and every forum there is, covering most anything, except that no one (but you, it seems) has ever tried to get the car any higher than eurospec height. Virtually everyone either wants to slam it low (like 24 3/4 or 25") or goes for 25 1/2, (roughly eurospec). I just assumed that 25 1/2 was as high as they would go. Did you install them yourself, or have them done?

For once I'm glad I live in Ohio. I can barely fit my shoe under the front splitter on my Aero I front bumper with the factory splitter on there, but I rarely ever have issues scraping as long as I take transitions at an angle. Matter of fact, my wife drives it more than I do on the street and that same splitter has lived for >2 years without an issue. Andy

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yes i did install them myself with a friend. it took about 6 to 8 hours nice and slow. I think if you follow Bilsteins insrructions (from memory 100 to 120mm for the front and 185 to 190 for the rear) the height at the fenders will be about 24.25 rear and 25.5 front. Also, the correct way to measure the vehicle height is from certain points under the car. i set mine a little higher that the recomended x74 heights, 127 front and 136 rear (note that these dimensions are from the chassis to the ground, not like the Bilstein measurment referenced above. Besides the initial installation i have tweeked the heights several times to get it where i like it. will post pics next week.

More excellent information! Yes, I am aware of the under chassis dimensions/locations F&R that Porsche uses. I prefer them to be even and a lttle higher than X74 as well, as my car is/will be 95% street. Really sounds like you've done the hard work for me! Thanks a ton!

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no problem, that is why we are on this site. Also, you will like the handling and dampening adjustability. I auto-x about once per month and plan to do some DE. If you like to play around then you will probably change the dampening depending on what you are doing with the car. This is one advantage that the x74 over the pss9's has as well as there is nothing to fiddle with. I am sure there are other pros and cons. There is one negative point for me, it is not uncommon to hear a twang/klunk when making a turn into a driveway. You can research this on this site.

Yes, I've read a lot about it, but while not uncommon, it doesn't seem to be universal. Some have used thrust sheets between the springs and seats on coilovers in general. When you did yours, did you reuse ALL the parts from the front struts (minus the bump stops)? I've seen where the majority seem to have not reused the upper bearing (part #11 in the PET), assuming the rubber spacer and backing plate will perform the same function. The ones that reused (or put in new) bearings, seemed to have eliminated the noise. Just curious.

I think some people us the X74 upper bearing mount on the front when installing PSS9 because it is stiffer than the stock suspension mount. It should eliminate the klunk noise ..... I opted for X74 on my car because I knew I'd never fiddle with the ride height. It transformed the car, far better handling than stock and really improves the look. No scraping issues at all, just angle over speed bumps and curbs ....

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I informed the shop that did my work ahead of time about my concern that all the correct parts from Bilstein be used and/or stock parts be reused. They were aware of the situation. FWIW, my setup is stock quiet; no noises.

pmkazz, Yopu have pm

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Responded to your pm. Thank you. P

I've also ordered X74 upper strut mounts (and new rear upper mounts as well) mainly because I didn't want to reuse 7 year old rubber parts that have taken a set. The bearings are the same for X74 and stock. I still may use thrust sheets.

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the x74 front mounts have a different offset than the stock so that you can have minimal negative camber at the low ride height. In other words the relationship between the strut centerline to the plate mounting bolts is 9mm more towards the fender. I actually measured this when installing x74 on a friends car. I found that at my ride height (25.75) i could adjust between 0.2 to 0.8 negatvie. I would think that with the x74 mounts i would not be able to have as much negative camber. It just depends on what you are trying to do.

george996, that is good info ... If i remember correctly the Porsche X74 front camber spec is 0.4 negative +/ 0.1, For the street I don't think you"ll want to run more than 0.5 negative in the front. I run 0.5 in the front and 1.5 negative on the rear, X74 ride height is the same as GT3 ....

Jeez, where were you a month ago when I was trying to find out JUST this kind of info!! Can you verify (or recall) that the X74 mount was a stiffer mount? I'm basing my input on an email from Gert at Carnewel(?) that told the X74 was stiffer and should better match the PSS9s characteristics. Like I mentioned the car is/will be 95% street, so I wouldn't give it a track alignment anyway, but dang, 9mm is about 3/8" and that does sound like a lot! Well, I'll eventually have the standard top strut mount and the X74's side by side and can decide then I guess. I'll take plenty of pics. I just hate to have paid a premium for the same mount, where the only difference is the center hole. I wonder if with the standard top mount, can you still get X74 height street alignment, or are you forced to have more neg camber because the mount can't be slid far enough to the outside?

why is it I feel so lost and confused now......... arg, I will re-read these - great info, just tough to digest all in one sitting although I found I am running -.55 front and -1.55 rear camber.. YEA, I am happy I found that in my print out from my alignment

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you could easily meet the street alignment specifications or close to it without the x74 mounts, especially if the height is not too low. below is a pic of my 996. running about 25.75 f & r. I wanted more negative camber since i auto-x.

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i found that the x74 front camber specification is -0.5 +/- 0.25 degrees. however, the x74 spring rate is stiffer than pss9's and the package includes stiffer sway bars. therefore, the car will lean less in a turn and will maintain more negative camber than pss9's. since i auto-x and am not concerned with even tire wear, i am running -0.75 degrees. for 100% street use i would probably run just a little negative camber like -0.1 to -0.25.

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Can you tell me what the X74 spring rate is? Many of us tried very hard to find this info and were never able to come up with a value. There's no denying that the X74 is stiffer than PSS9 but that could all be in the damper. Andy

Why is everyone so afraid of negative camber? Increasing negative camber in many cases is good as it helps corning. With regards to tire wear negative camber and toe cause increase tire wear. Why not just go zero to and solve that issue. You'll also have a better handling car and crisper turn in. I just think it's a bit funny that .5-1 degree of front camber is nothing, my first p car had well over 2 degrees but zero toe and had no adverse or accelerated wear. I ran -3.4 in the front end of my BMW and -2.4 in the rear (zero toe in the front and 1/8th toe rear) with no negative effect on tire wear. Wet traction was a different story. LOL I come from the autocross side of the hobby but do a few track days a year and found the more aggressive setup is fantastic. It's kind of funny, but with my current car (stock), I'm not a fan of it's "street/factory" alignment as it's no where near as crisp as my first 996 (which was set up nicely). I can't wait to go back to my old cars settings. The only real negative with more aggressive setups in my experience, is the car can feel a bit darty on the street which requires a bit more focus to drive. I'm used to it but others may not be.

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+1 Pete, Couldn't agree with you more. Even for a car that's 95% street why not improve the handling characteristics of the car all the time if you can. -1.5 degrees all the way around (if you can get it at the front) is a great setup on street tires and a dream to drive. Keep front toe to a minimum and you won't know the difference in tire wear.

George, thanks for the pics! Nice. X74 sways are the same as M030, which I've already installed. Stiffer sways mean less roll, which means more even distribution, so more negative camber makes sense. I don't understand why a stiffer spring rate "allows" more negative camber. Stiffer means less travel, I don't see the correlation, but I'm sure no expert. I didn't mean to imply I want a stock C2 street alignment, I was referring to an X74 alignment, which has a more performance lean to it. There is most definitely a more squirrelly feel to the front end with 0 camber, vs even a little neg camber, based on cars I have driven, just going straight, never mind cornering. I agree that -.5 - -1 is no big deal, and since you always eat the rears WAY before the fronts, this can allow easier justification to replace all 4 tires at the same time. Of course if you love the rubber you've got and can get a 2 rear for every front, then that may change. As long as -1 doesn't affect wet weather driving, then I see no reason not to do it, IMHO.

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I didn�t know you had m030 sway bars. Even so, I think the x74 spring rate is higher than the pss9�s based on driving both. However I am comparing pss9�s with stock sway bars to the x74 package. I didn�t explain my point clearly. When I wrote that a stiffer suspension will �maintain more negative camber� I meant to say the change in camber towards positive, due to body roll, will be less than a car with a softer suspension and more roll. Not that a stiffer suspension requires or allows for more negative camber adjustment. In other words, more negative camber is required to compensate for more body roll. Of course, the objective here is to optimize performance instead of tire wear. Your point about replacing all 4 tires at once was my thinking too.

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Andy, Unfortunately I do not know x74 spring rates. I do know from installing both, the x74 free length is shorter than the pss9's and compresses less from the weight of the vehicle.

Yes, that makes a lot more sense...you will maintain that benefit of the negative camber in a corner instead of losing it to body roll from increased suspension travel. Also agree that I wouldn't optimizie for tire wear on a 911, but for the performance parameters that I want for my use of the car. It's not my dailey driver interstate car. Tires usually last longer than I want to based on my 4 -6k miles per year. Pretty much everyone agrees that the PSS9s will provide a more supple ride initially, which is that inital compression of the helper spring and inital load of the normal spring. As you probably know the M030 ARBs are ~25% stiffer rear and ~10% front...not much really, but it should help the understeer considerably. It yields noticeably less lean, and decreased understeer, but not anything eye-popping as far as I've been able to tell. Honestly, I expected more based on others posts.

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you raise another good point regarding ARB's. I feel my car has too much understeer and perhaps the m030 ARB's would help. I didn't notice the understeer as much before installing the pss9's but on the otherhand i didn't auto-x it then. I would be interested in your feedback after you install the pss9's.

Well that would make sense. The old OEM struts yield more suspensionmovement & body roll, which has the effect of pre-loading the ARBs. The much stiffer springs and compression of the PSS9s reduce same, so the old ARBs act softer. This would definitely be more noticeable when autoxing because of the constant sharp radius reversals.

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mine is 25inch all around ....and front lip also 5.75inch from ground....anything lower will probably compromise the ride.........

You front lip is 5.75 from ground? Are you sure? Mine is about 8", stock front bumper and struts at 26 1/2" all around. I know the turbo bumper has less protrusion (flatter nose) and is lower, I just never realized it was that much more. Dang!

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sorry my mistake front lip to ground 5inch,fenders to ground 25inch all around with full tank gas.......................

Wow! When I install my PSS9s in June, I'm planning on dropping 3/4 to 7/8", which would get me to about 7" or so, which is as low as I can get and still have 1/4" to clear on my steep driveway. You must hit everything!

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I ordered C4S rear ARB (20.7 mm, same as GT3) and will let you know how it works in a few days.