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YOUR RESEARCH2001 996 turbo 84k mile good deal?
Reported or suspected cause
first year
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
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Reported cause
So, even though it was the first year for the U.S.
Leading evidence: 'first year' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'first year' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check leaks' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Reported cause
The second issue is people don't understand how to properly drive turbos.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Among other things this has the car in the air where it can be checked for leaks.
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The water pump, engine coolant hose fittings (engine out job to address), turbo oil lines, RMS, transmission seals, rear diff seals, cardan shaft, front diff seals, in short every hose fitting, line fitting, seal, gasket or o-ring needs to be inspected for any leak sign.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The water pump, engine coolant hose fittings (engine out job to address), turbo oil lines, RMS, transmission seals, rear diff seals, cardan shaft, front diff seals, in short every hose fitting, line fitting, seal, gasket or o-ring needs to be inspected for any leak sign.
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Suggestion
One other note, the cars require more maintenance and are a bit harder to change the oil on thanks to the dry sump oil system the Turbo and Air Cooled people are always going on about.
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33 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Looking to pick up my first Porsche, considering switching from BMW. I've only owned forced induction cars, can't stop now :-).
Local dealer is offering a 01 911 a turbo, 84k miles. Clean carfax, 3 owners. Cat looks clean. After market nav. Looks like it might have x50 package? Seems to be an average price. Anything I should be concerned about? Mileage and Turbo's etc?
Thanks everyone, any input is appreciated.
You should post in the turbo forum. But, looks like a fair deal to me, assuming there are no known issues with the car. Be sure and get a good PPI before you buy.
ask for the option codes in the sticker under the frunk. better yet, have them send you a picture so you can decode (sample pic below swiped from the net)
Googling the car's VIN turns up several ads from the past. The car was offered for sale some time back with 74,993 miles and then again (now I guess) with 83,931 miles.
In none of the ads do I see any reference to an X50 package. I would think that if the car has this package at least one seller would have listed it.
Check the options sticker under the front trunk lid.
My usual reply to questions about used Porsches is the car in question is just a used car so a thorough used car check out is required.
That you are talking about a Turbo doesn't change things.
(BTW, I have shopped and bought a used Turbo and currently own the car.)
My advice is to visit the car cold. Turn off the A/C. When you first turn on the key confirm the dash warning lights all come on -- including the CEL -- and then they all go off when the engine fires and begins to run.
Let the engine idle while you walk around the car. On the surface you are looking the car over for any signs of body/paint work. But you are also listening to the engine from every angle.
After letting the engine idle for a while -- 10 minutes or so if possible -- then have the seller take you on a test ride.
During this you want to focus on how the car rides, handles, steers, brakes, and accelerates.
The route should cover 15 miles or so and give the driver a chance to demo the car as you will use it, within reason of course.
But once warmed up the test ride should include a hard acceleration up through at least 2 gears.
You want to verify the engine pulls strongly from off idle to redline. And afterwards you want to verify the engine settles into a nice smooth idle.
Check the rear view mirror for any exhaust smoke. This can be a sign the turbo seals are leaking.
Back at the starting point you get behind the wheel and take the car out on a test drive. Drive the same route. Drive the car the same way.
You must spend time with the car in its natural state, with the engine running.
After the test ride/drive then give the car a thorough used car check out. Assume nothing works until you confirm it does.
What specifically to look for? There are too many things to cover. But some highlights are 2nd gear (any gear pop out). Stiff clutch with the engine off. (Clutch accumulator bad, which can also have the slave cylinder bad too.) Leaking spoiler cylinders. High pitched squeal with 6-speed in neutral and foot off the clutch pedal. (High pressure relief valve noise which requires a new power steering tank ($1000) to address.) Non-functioning radiator fans. Any noises from the engine. While the engine is pretty robust and not subject to the IMSB problem of the N/A engines, a Turbo engine can still be sick. Chirps or other noises can be from a noisy idler roller bearing. Lower pitched noises from a water pump.
The 6-speed should shift without any drama, clunks, or crunches. The Tip likewise should not exhibit any untoward behavior.
If after all of the above, you still like the car and believe you can buy it for an agreeable sum of money, then get a PPI.
Among other things this has the car in the air where it can be checked for leaks. The water pump, engine coolant hose fittings (engine out job to address), turbo oil lines, RMS, transmission seals, rear diff seals, cardan shaft, front diff seals, in short every hose fitting, line fitting, seal, gasket or o-ring needs to be inspected for any leak sign.
The DME over rev counters get read and the tech can go over these readings with you if there's anything to worry about.
Remember, these are expensive cars news. $120K or more. They can be expensive to service and repair should something go wrong. They are rather special cars to work on -- often common services like plugs require more labor to do than on a N/A car -- and require special knowledge. The car needs a dealer to service or a very good indy. Your local quick lube joint ain't going to suffice.
Some owners do some work themselves, too, and save some money. Oil/filter services are not that hard to do but you need to know how to do them correctly. Brakes are not difficult. Even more involved things like a clutch, or water pump job can be done. But you need to be able to get the car in the air safely, and quickly. Were I going to do my own Turbo servicing beyond just oil/filter servicing, I'd buy a nice floor lift that would pick up the car by its factory lift points or with the proper adapters by its tires/wheels like the dealer service bay lift does. Your garage lift doesn't have to be that fancy. IIRC nice lifts are available for under $2K.
The turbos are known for a couple of issues. The most common one is the coolant lines were attached to the engine block at the factory using some kind of liquid weld, which is known to fail around 50,000 miles. Have the lines checked and look at the maintenance history to see if the car has ever had the problem and if it has been properly fixed.
The second issue is people don't understand how to properly drive turbos. The turbos on a car spin at an ungodly rate, in the tens of thousands of RPM when at speed. So it takes them a little bit to cool down and spin down when the car has been run at speed. So the cars have to be properly warmed up and warmed down. If you just jump in a turbo, drive a couple of blocks and floor it getting on the highway with a cold engine it is very hard on the turbos because the oil is still too cold and thick to properly cool the turbos. At the other end if you stop the car after driving at high RMP and just shut it off, the turbos keep spinning by their own momentum and are still incredibly hot but since the engine is off don't have any oil flow to lubricate or cool them this is also very hard on the turbos. So you have to warm up the engine before driving it hard and let it run at low RPM for a couple of minutes after driving it hard to let the turbos spin down and cool a bit or you will quickly wear out the bearings.
So, have a inspection done and do your best to get a feel from the seller. Does he understand this or is he the kind of guy who has driven the hell out of it without paying attention? If you think he might be the latter, don't buy it.
Otherwise they are great cars and the Meztger Engine is known to be bomb proof with known examples going in excess of 300K without a rebuild.
One other note, the cars require more maintenance and are a bit harder to change the oil on thanks to the dry sump oil system the Turbo and Air Cooled people are always going on about. Despite what they claim a dry sump system has disadvantages and its advantages don't often translate to every day use. The reason why race cars use a dry sump system is because they achieve such high g forces during cornering and they operate at high RPMs. Under high g forces, the engine suffers from oil starvation on whichever bank of cylinders is on the inside of the corner as the g forces cause the oil to slosh to the outside bank. A dry sump prevents this. Also a dry sump cools the oil more efficiently and therefore keeps the engine cooler over prolonged periods of high RPM.
The problem is that dry sumps are more complicated and require more maintenance. In addition, without using slicks on a track, you are never going to achieve the kinds of g forces necessary to get oil starvation in a wet sump. Also, during daily use the efficient cooling of a dry sump becomes a disadvantage because they work so well it can take forever to warm a car up in daily driving in the cold.
I think the Turbos are great cars. They are likely to appreciate as people realize that and stop worrying about idiotic things like the headlights and interior. But they do require a bit more maintenance and careful use than the N/A cars.
Macster & JohnCK2014:
Great info. As someone casually looking for a 996TT, I appreciate both of those responses and the insider info in both. Rennlist rocks.
With regards to dry sump oil systems and the speed of the car getting to operating temp, I would say the turbo is actually faster than my old 02 boxster. The boxster almost took twice as long.
OK, here go's;
The wheels are wrong
The front has been changed (original had bumpers)
Wrong splitter
The radio has been removed
2001's issues;
Severe 2nd gear popout
rear spoiler
clutch problems
1st North American 996 TT
missing glove box, etc. as others have mentioned
I almost made a deal on a 2001 TT, glad I didn't. In summary, the 2001 TT was pretty much a lemon for most.
2nd gear pop out severe? Methinks that was rarely severe and was resolved cheaply by the aftermarket:
http://reutterwerk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18231
I don't believe rear spoiler issue is limited to 2001 MY
Clutch accumulator also not limited to 2001. Regardless, resolved with mod to GT2 part.
996TT was first introduced in Europe the year before, so not a true first year model.
Glove box? OMG
Cites to "2001 TT was pretty much a lemon for most" please.
I am currently looking for a 996TT, so if the 2001 really is that bad, I'd like to steer clear. I'll be trolling the low end of the turbo market, so 2001 MY is in my sights. I'll be driving the crap out of it, so high mileage and some rock chips and other blemishes aren't a deal killer. But if 2001 is inherently that bad. . . , it's just that I've not seen that opinion widely held.
2nd gear pop out effects all years the same.
Rear spoiler effects all years the same.
Clutch is the same all years.
Who cares if it is the first year?
Why is a glove box so important to you?
Really, you are glad you skipped the turbo for these reasons?
No, I caught that, and it's a valid point. My point was that they did have a year to work out the bugs in Europe before bringing it to the U.S. So, even though it was the first year for the U.S. version, it's not that big of a deal. Kind of like the 2nd gear popout issue - no one would deny it occurred. I just don't think either issue rises to the "this car is a lemon because of that" category.
BTW, I've got no dog in the fight - I don't own a 996TT (yet
). So, I'm in the fact gathering stage of the purchase process. I have no first hand knowledge whatsoevah, so the questions truly are questions - not trying to pick a fight. I'd rather find out now that the '01 model is a lemon than a week after I buy one.
But, had I given up on buying a 996 NA after reading all of the hype on Rennlist about the "bearing who shall not be named" and "27 modes of engine failure", I would not have bought my current car (which I consider one of the best cars I've ever owned out of more than 100 cars).
KC, you have certainly been around the 996 forum long enough to know the ropes here. I just think you get so much more by getting a 996 TT MKII v. the 2001. Numerous improvements with the 2002 up. There are many downsides posted about the 2001 TT so JMHO to avoid it and go up to at least the next year model.
My goal is to afford the 997 TT to get even more car for the money though I do really like the 2002 up TT 996. You cant go wrong with one for sure.
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