Trade the 99' towards a Turbo?

Man I can't make up my mind between keeping my current 996 or trading it towards a turbo. I like my car but I don't really 'love' that it's a cab plus I'd really enjoy having 50% more power... although I'm sure that I would get numb to that after awhile also. I can't really justify spending the cost of two of my cars for a car that essentially is the same thing... just faster. Give me your thoughts guys... I'll be smart and listen to strangers on the internet for a semi-major financial decision. BTW... Current: 99' C2 cab, manual, silver with blue top/interior, 37k miles Considering: 02' Turbo, Automatic (I actually prefer an automatic in most turbo cars, plus I have a bad left knee anyway), seal grey, gray interior (not a huge fan of the gray interior), 47k miles.

Keep it as a beater Why only have 1 car?

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Lol it crossed my mind but I can't do it financially. Wife needs a new car in another year or two and that's gonna hurt.

'99 cab = Boxster = cheap to most folks I'm sure the FL sun isn't too great for your head either. Dunno if you're one of the folks that drives a convertible with the top up all the time since it's humid down there and have the AC on(rendering a convertible purpose useless). If you have some good long stretches of roads that you regularly travel on, the TT may be worth it. 300hp is plenty for me where I live but if I lived in TX for example, I would def have to get a TT. If it's gonna put any kind of financial strain on you, I would keep the 996 vert. OTOH, if you just have extra $30k or so laying around, I would consider the TT. Better than blowing it on hookers.

Turbo is plenty different it has so much more torque and gearing is different, also you can be in a gear higher and still have tons of torque. Considering you have a cab and a low mileage C2 but values just aren't there. I would keep it and add the Turbo coupe. Some times a drive with open top and fresh night air is a blast and probably worth keeping it just for that alone. You will feel one day that it is pretty darn slow though after driving a Turbo.

I also have a '99 (coupe) and have been thinking it's turbo time for a minute, too. Have plenty of other car toys, but can't stop thinking about it. The '99 is still at the low low of the depreciation I guess, and my car is sooo good anyways. Keep us posted..

If you don't drive a ton then get the turbo. Prices are still low and you can buy it, drive it for a few years, and sell it probably for what you paid. Only expense will be maint. So if you get a good one then its a no downside decision.

Sell your '99 cabriolet now. Take your time and get to know the turbo market over the summer. Wait to buy until after Labor Day when the prices come back down. Now is the best time of year to sell a car, but the worst time to buy one. Sell now, buy in 5 months.

Thanks guys... kc that's actually a pretty good idea. I might do that.

oddly enough I've been thinking of trading down from my '01 996TT tip, black/black, large leather, 26k miles as I don't drive it very often. not a fan of cabs though.

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Even trade? I might consider it.

Life is short, you only live once. If you can afford it, do it. If not, be happy with what you have....others are only DREAMING of owning a Porsche someday..

I did what you are contemplating. Many of my friends and neighbors don't even notice. Turbo looks similar, I went from an Artic Silver over Metropole Blue 2003 C2 Cab to an Artic Silver over Black 2004 X50 Turbo, completely different driving feel and of course power. C2 felt lighter and a little more agile with quick reflexes. Turbo feels chunkier and more direct, probably due to the AWD chassis, plus a whole LOT faster. In the mix of driving that I do, mostly "45 mph" secondary roads, The C2 regularly got 21 MPG and ~28 on a highway trip. The turbo seems to be getting ~18 and ~24 MPG highway, I have not had it long enough to really tell. Both cars are wonderful driving machines. My opinion GET THE TURBO.

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Putting aside emotion of wanting a Turbo have you considered the depreciation hit you're going to take selling a relatively low miles '99 C2 Cab? The car is ~17 years old. You don't say but assuming you have owned the '99 C2 Cab since new, that's just 37K miles since '99. That's 17 years at ~2176 miles per year. A Turbo is going to be a rather expensive used car purchase to get used for just 2200 miles per year. Assuming nothing goes wrong with the Turbo it is still going to cost more to service/maintain, and insure and register than the '99 Cab. I'm not so sure Turbo prices will increase enough to take the sting out of the depreciation if you decide to sell the Turbo after a few years. Based on the above I think a good argument could be made to stick with the C2.

Is this the actual car? http://www.autohausfl.com/vehicle-de...69cd08e2b085e/

Have you considered 997.1 turbos? Early examples can be found at "reasonable" prices. I loved my 996 C4S, but the 997.1 turbo takes things to another level. It still gives you the things that you like about your 996, but it addresses the issues that you don't like.

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If you want a heavier and even more dull steering feeling electronic awd car with a engine that is fitted with cost savings measures like plastic coolant fittings that crack with age, and pressed on cam sleeves that slip and the variable turbos don't hold up as well as the old ones that do not move. Then go ahead, get a 997.1 tt

Dennis - I haven't ever followed the market, but what's a 997.1 Turbo selling for these days? Assume a "driver" quality car as opposed to a garage queen. Macster - He's already taken the depreciation hit regardless of whether he sells the car or not, so not sure I follow. Plus, if he's essentially trading a NA 996 for a 996tt of the same vintage, then the depreciation issue should be a wash (both are currently at the bottom of their respective depreciation curves). If he were swapping a 996 for a 991, so as to catch the new car at the top of the depreciation curve, then it would be an issue. kmagnuss - As for the 996tt you are looking at, that's a great deal in the current spring market. I'm not a tippy fan, but if that's what you prefer, my comment about waiting until after Labor Day for prices to go down will probably only save you a couple of thousand dollars at most. On the other hand, I think there is value in getting to know the market for a few months before pulling the trigger because you are more likely to get the exact car you want (for example you probably won't have to settle for the gray interior that you don't like). Ironically, for me, when I sold my '99 C4 in March 2015, there was the exact car I wanted on the market. I missed buying it by a day or so waiting for the funds to arrive from my buyer. Then, it took another 6 months for the next one just like it to show up. But, when it did, it had 55,000 less miles and was an X50 and had some very nice mods that the first one didn't have. For all of that, I paid only another $3,500 on top of the higher mileage car. So, patience did pay off for me.

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Decent turbos with higher mileage can be found in the high $50K range. Good examples with lower mileage can be found in the mid to upper $60K range.

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That's certainly one way to look at it.... Or, you could look at it like this: If you want a 911 that is better looking inside and out than a 996, faster than a 996 with all the great driving dynamics you'd expect from a 911, and more reliable than a 996, then go ahead and buy a 997.1 turbo. That has been my experience. You can find something to criticize on virtually every 911 ever produced. Nothing is "perfect". That being said, the 997.1 turbo is a great car and would be a great upgrade to a 996 C2. I'm not knocking the 996, but I feel that the 997 is better in almost every way and I'm just giving real world feedback.

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I feel the 996tt is better in every way.

I understand, although I disagree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I responded to your post the way that I did because it was a broad generalization of the 997.1 turbo that doesn't represent the experience of most 997.1 turbo owners. It's no different than making statements about how all 996 cars have cheap interiors, poor build quality, IMS bearings that will fail, etc. You and I know that description is also a broad generalization that doesn't represent the experience of most 996 owners. I haven't had any issues with steering feel. It feels great. I don't notice that the car is 154 lbs. heavier than a 996 turbo. The plastic coolant pipes are found in the 996 and the 997 turbo. I haven't had any issues with the cam sleeves. I would have no problem owning a 996 turbo, but I prefer a 997 turbo to a 996 turbo. The great news for buyers is that both are for sale!

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FYI plastic coolant fittings are not found in the 996tt, they have metal ones. I have seen these coolant fittings on 997tt engines cracked in person and there are a lot of them there just not a one or two. You need to pull the engine to replace them all. Plus you have to pin or weld or re glue the coolant pipes. As they changed the adhesive supplier during the 997.1 gt3/tt production run.

Good information on the 996 coolant tubes. I've always heard they had plastic pipes, like the 997. I have read about the adhesive change in the 997 pipes, and that the earlier models were impacted more frequently than the later models. In any case, it hasn't been an issue for me at 46,000 miles. If the day comes that I need to replace them, I'll switch to metal aftermarket pipes and probably have them welded.

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Yessir.

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Well, no the OP hasn't. He won't until he sells the car. And the longer he holds onto the car the lower the cost per mile in depreciation. 'course, at under 2200 miles per year the OP's still going to experience some pretty severe cost per mile in depreciation when he does sell. Also, I wonder if 996 Turbos are really at the bottom of their depreciation curve? That some believe they are is I think just wishful thinking and helps feed the delusion that one will get his money back when he goes to sell the car. An early MY 996 Turbo is getting on in years. Heck my 2003 is 13 years old and maybe older depending upon when it was built. To state the obvious these cars are getting on in years and are not getting any younger. I'd hate to have to count on the possibility of a car countering the natural tendency to depreciate and instead due a 180 degree turn around and appreciate.

Nice car with an excellent price if all the PPI items line up. Surprised this one is going so cheap but maybe it's the tip that is bringing down the price. At this point in my driving life, the tip would be a pretty nice feature.

FWIW I bought my '99 a year ago. I live close to work so I drive about 5-6k miles per year. I really don't think either my current car or the TT will depreciate much in the next few years... but I truly believe that the TT will hold value stronger over the long haul... bad news is I get tired of cars within a year which is why I pretty much always sell a car in that time. Maybe it will be different with a TT but I doubt it.

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So, I'm just curious, what causes the coolant pipe failures that I read about in the 996 turbo? It appears that the pipes are metal, so is it the adhesive that holds them in place? Is the repair for them pinning and/or welding also?

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The pipes are just glued in. Usually they only blow out under very hard use (think track day). One solution is to pin. Better solution is to weld.

C4S. Better looking IMO; Turbo suspension and plenty fast, but lower price point and lower maintenance costs. Just one man's opinion.

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coolant pipes are glued in, sometimes these dry up or fail depends though. I have a 15 year old Turbo that's been tracked in summer hard every year and never had a issue. I think some engines may vibrate or move around to much and put stress on it who knows. The fitting are completely different then glued in pipes though, its a separate issue. While glued in these plastic fittings actaully crack and then leak. Same issue seen in the 955 Cayennes with its coolant pipe failures. Sharwerks has the fittings for sale

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Don't most tracks require you to pin or weld the pipes before passing inspection though? Or is that dependent on the region hosting the event?

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yes or the 3 option is to run water with water wetter which all race cars do.

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^^^THIS^^^

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Agree!! I love mine. I have had one of my pipes pop loose. Re-bonded it and so far so good. Will have an engine out service soon and upgrade all the pipes and have them pinned. New coils, hoses and water pump etc....

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yawn. plastic coolant fittings. How many have failed? yes, I want a real number, not a "well duh, i read somewhere that its been a lot." Proof that the VGT turbos don't hold up as well? Evidence? Facts? Pressed on cam sleeves...yup, that sucks. talking about sucking, lets talk about your cracking tailights, your 2nd gear popouts, your ancient pcm, 4 piston front calipers, etc etc. Lest we forget about the 70bhp power increase, as well as torque bump, reduced turbo lag, etc etc.

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I don't work for Porsche to keep track of numbers. I've seen personally the cracked fitting while the engine was out while it was getting repaired. Plastic ages and with the engine vibration its not if it will crack but when. Cracked tail light mounts tabs can happen, these are plastic like your coolant fittings, except these are easy fixed cheaply. I don't have and actually never came across one with 2nd gear pop out issue, I wouldn't have bought the car if it did. PCM? or PSM? The 996tt can easily be brought up to 600hp or more. The variable turbos are weaker do to the nature of how it works if you run a tune and push them have be know to implode. etc.. etc. nuff talk, you want to arrange a track date then you can show me how much better the 997tt is.

^Mid Ohio would be fun

quad and jumper - Do the race in New Jersey and loser has to take Chris Christie out for dinner after you figure out a way to get him in your car.

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You know he has lost a lot of weight. I think naked covered in Crisco he would pop right in.

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I am in Toronto and he is in NJ, Mid Ohio is somewhere in between us, though we can to other tracks, I know NNJR comes up to CTMP but NJMP is not a HP track at so he would lose that advantage. A 997tt even driven by an amateur should leave my slightly modified 996tt in the dust as its so superior.

Have to chime in.... Had the opportunity to buy a 996 turbo with many modifications and ended up with a 3.6L N/A due to how much more I can actually use the power on local roads and tight twisters. I can push my N/A about 90% everywhere I go as where I couldn't do that with the turbo. I honestly felt as though I would never use the turbo to its potential and even the seller of the turbo car agreed with me.

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I also currently have a 02 C4S. I agree, I can drive it full throttle with no thought not even worry about it coming out on you. Rain or Snow doesn't matter its almost a safe forgettable experience. You don't have to worry about having too much power or worry about having to manipulate the throttle to keep traction. You have to have keep it around 4000 rpm or more for it to be responsive. It can be more fun becuase of that just a whole lot slower.

Get the turbo. No brainer for me.

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jumper - Quadcammer has both a 993 and a 997, so face it, his ***** is bigger than yours. Like D!ck in the 996tt forum, it's not worth your time.

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993 guy, got yah. Personally I prefer the 964, because it actually has real 911 head lights and fenders that keep the frog look.

I liked my 964 and 993 too - It was just the bending down to clean up the pool of oil in my garage every week that lead to the 964 sale ....and a couple years later the 993 had the clogged air passages and CEL light issue - decided to let her go too

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love your old 964, I'd have put up with the oil leak.

Agree. Face it: All of us have our personal biases among Porsches, cleverly disguised as 'facts'. This one's faster. That one is air cooled. This one has 'real' 911 headlights. And, so on. Regarding STRICTLY the 996's: At this point, the price for a 996tt and a 996 C4S aren't wildly different (say, 50k vs 36k?). I made the decision to return to a C4S for more or less the above. It's also the case in my particular circumstance that the nearest dealer is 155 miles away: a disabled Turbo would be a major PITA. Yes, I've driven both, and the Turbo is spectacular--whether subsequent ones are better or worse is for me irrelevant. But here's the thing: the Turbo is far, far too tempting for me personally. I've already picked up a >100mph ticket in the mere, slow, outdated, ugly, C4S, on a safe 13 mile straightaway in the California desert. I'd probably end up with a ticket every month, and a suspension in less than six, with a Turbo. I secure all of the joy that I personally want from a Porsche from the C4S: I think it's a beautiful car, it's more than sufficiently fast; I enjoyed buying a $90,000 car with under 50k miles for a bit over a third of its sticker, because I'm a cheapskate Bohemian; it also allows me the opportunity to 'fiddle' with it cosmetically and otherwise, while not defacing a rare classic. They're also relatively uncommon (except perhaps in California, but: not my problem). As to the plastic fittings on the Turbo, and so forth: Face it, we all like fiddling with these cars. I've replaced many of the doodads on my car ostensibly to improve it, but realistically because I want to. If I had the Turbo, I'd replace the plastic bits with stainless or carbon or uranium or whatever, just because. And then, problem(s) solved. The IMS? Gives me an excuse to pull the engine at about 60,000, and add some power and security courtesy of Mr Raby. Marry the spouse that meets your needs in life, not the perceptions of others. Drive the car that does the same. Drive the h*ll out of it, and look back at it every time you get out and walk into your office. Once you stop doing that: you're probably over it, and time to get something else. Just one man's narrow, biased opinion.

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It's anecdotal but my VGT obliterated itself at 63k miles. That being said, all high performance cars have issues. It's the nature of the beast. I've owned M's and AMGs and their forums are filled with horror stories as well. I had an '09 997TT 6MT Cab. I modded it up to 620hp (theoretical at the crank) and it was a beast. All that being said, because I've owned a car that fast, I no longer need to own a car that fast. I actually like my '99 C2 Coupe much better. It's just very light and fun to drive. The 2 wheel drive is more exciting in the corners, the coupe is more solid, and I love the sound and power curve of the NA engines. If you have the bug, you probably have no choice but to buy a turbo now. Your brain won't forgive you otherwise. But I would highly recommend driving a 997.1 or 997.2 C2S, depending on you budget, before you do. Just my opinions through.

I did exactly this. The other item to consider is investment quality. Not that I would say cars are ever the foundation of a portfolio, 996tt's have all of the earmarks to show good appreciation of the next several years: metzger engine, top of the line Porsche, etc. I can't help modding my stuff, so the investment side is a bit iffy for me, but I bought a car someone else dropped $25-30k on at GMG Racing for market rate of a car with this mileage. As others have said, the awd takes some feel out of the steering and chassis, which is why I'm planning a rwd conversion with ltd slip. You can't go wrong with either one. But, if you want to go 2x as fast and never worry about an IMS failure, the turbo is a treat you should consider sooner rather than later.

Thanks for all the responses guys... my wife actually wants me to get the turbo. My gut feeling is to hold off but I think I'll be kicking myself a few years down the road. It would be the ultimate IMS fix though...

I'm going through this myself. Just drove a modded 996tt on the same street tires I run (htrz3) and it felt noticeable heavier than a 996, the front pushed worse but the power sure was nice when it finally arrived. Even with a chip on a stock turbo non-x50 car, turbo lag was very noticeable at street speeds and rpm. Depending on the driving you do, the driving experience may or may not be better/more enjoyable for you. From an investment standpoint, I think a 996tt is a good buy currently. I've seen a few of them in the low $30k range,2 of them with very expensive mods and good records. Around here they sell very fast if they're priced reasonably, in the $30s. The cars in the $40s seem to sit for awhile.

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I agree... I'd personally rather find a tt with around 100k miles in the low $30's than a babied one in the $40's. Plus it's easier on the wallet (up front at least) and I won't feel bad about racking up miles on it.

Life's too short, get whatever pushes your buttons and get it checked off on your bucket list. Your wife knows you well and if it wasn't that important to you, I'm sure you wouldn't have brought it up to her. You got a good wife if she's telling you to get the Turbo. Either that or she's just tired of you talking about it all the time and wants to shut you up.

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She's a good wife but I'm pretty sure she's tired of hearing about it and me being so wishy-washy.

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GIT R DONE already then

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Well that's pretty obvious if you're coming on here and asking us to tell you what to do.

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Lol so true. I'm going to 'take a look' tomorrow.

do it. No offense to the n/a guys, but the TT is in a world of its own. I ****ing love that car.

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As you should. Because you're right: it is in a class of its own. And when 996tt's are selling for $150,000 in 2026, the rest of us will be crying 'coulda, woulda, shoulda..." Enjoy it.