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YOUR RESEARCHSince when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
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Replace around 25k miles (car was really low mileage
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I had mine replaced around 25k miles (car was really low mileage when we got it).
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
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Leading evidence: 'Replace around 25k miles (car was really low mileage' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'best researched/developed option' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace around 25k miles (car was really low mileage' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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In my case she is the one that hung onto a half used clutch (replaced with the first RMS) for over a decade, still has the CD changer even though the HU died and we replaced it 10 years ago, and won't let go of the original tail lights for her BMW after she put the "blackline" versions in 7 years ago.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
Use clutch (
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In my case she is the one that hung onto a half used clutch (replaced with the first RMS) for over a decade, still has the CD changer even though the HU died and we replaced it 10 years ago, and won't let go of the original tail lights for her BMW after she put the "blackline" versions in 7 years ago.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
best researched/developed option
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Suspected cause
I dont know for sure, but it does seem like Jake and Charles have done the most research and have the most experience with the IMS bearing, so I trusted that theirs is probably the best researched/developed option.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
Replace bearing
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Suggestion · Original poster
If a motor rebuild was around $5k I would not have replaced the bearing.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
Replace oil
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Suggestion
You would be amazed at the number of shops that don't even bother to change the oil when putting a bearing in and we've had some even drain the old oil and reuse it.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
Replace with the first rms)
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In my case she is the one that hung onto a half used clutch (replaced with the first RMS) for over a decade, still has the CD changer even though the HU died and we replaced it 10 years ago, and won't let go of the original tail lights for her BMW after she put the "blackline" versions in 7 years ago.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
Run legit business
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Suggestion
Then they have evidence to show any doubters that they have lots of effed up bearings which kind of proves that they run a legit business and that they are not trying to scare the crap out of the posters on this board.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
Use clutch (
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In my case she is the one that hung onto a half used clutch (replaced with the first RMS) for over a decade, still has the CD changer even though the HU died and we replaced it 10 years ago, and won't let go of the original tail lights for her BMW after she put the "blackline" versions in 7 years ago.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
Use of our products
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Suggestion
These requirements are here to try to stop those shops cutting corners and doing work that shouldn't be carried out and ensure the best possible results from use of our products.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
Reported and suspected causes (1)
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best researched/developed option
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Suspected cause
I dont know for sure, but it does seem like Jake and Charles have done the most research and have the most experience with the IMS bearing, so I trusted that theirs is probably the best researched/developed option.
Since when does LN Engineering want your old IMS bearing back
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Just got my IMS replaced and asked for my old bearing back. They said bearing was perfect but LN now requires them to send it back to them because they want to inspect it. I'm assuming this would be to assure them that their bearing wasn't installed into a car with a failing bearing.
They've always requested that the bad bearing get sent to them - in fact, I don't think the warranty is valid unless you send them your original bearing.
I still have mine...
"They said bearing was perfect but
LN now requires
them to send it back to them.."
Hmmm.....
YOU
require it back,
YOUR
part.........you can graciously give it to send to LN, but the "requirement" part sounds like BS.....IMHO
Thanks for the heads up......this is the first time I ever heard such a strange "warranty condition"....just to make sure I get this right:
You buy an LN IMS bearing, and in order for them to honor a "warranty" on the new part you just bought, you have to send the one you removed from your car back to them.......
My goodness.....I think I am just too thick headed to understand the logic.....I need someone to break this one down for me, as if I was a 5 year old....
lmao. But yes, the last two I removed were sent back. They are gathering up all the old blown engines from IMSB failure and sticking the returned ones in them
. lol
Now convo is getting lighter.....
I'm going to take a stab at this with NO up front knowledge of the rules, but some intuitive reasoning.
Part of the qualification for the warranty is that you install the bearing into an engine which has not already suffered any bearing damage. So - once the old one is out, if you give them a coffee can with some crushed steel *****, and a few chunks of bearing race, they might prolly withhold the warranty against further damage. Or there-abouts.
It's actually a bit worse than that. You have to send it to them uncleaned and with the seals in place.
My guess is they want to analyze it themselves so that if you make a claim they can determine if you were already having issues prior to installing their bearing. That's just a guess though. Maybe Charles will swing by and give us the real scoop.
At the end of the day the warranty just wasn't compelling to me. Assuming you have a failure and it can be shown the bearing was at fault, a few hundred bucks isn't a big enough drop in the bucket to make it worth dealing with. Just my opinion though.
you guys are weird.
why would you want to keep the old bearing? I throw out car parts that I no longer have use for. you guys like having a wife nag you over left over car parts strewn across the house and garage???
Was there any doubt for many of us?
Mostly I agree. For me the IMSB is a bit different given all the grief that surrounds it. It's kinda like a badge of honor or something. I'm also a fiddler so it's a fun toy to have on the desk to spin and play with
In my case she is the one that hung onto a half used clutch (replaced with the first RMS) for over a decade, still has the CD changer even though the HU died and we replaced it 10 years ago, and won't let go of the original tail lights for her BMW after she put the "blackline" versions in 7 years ago. I'm the one that runs around nagging about too much **** in the house
Having people send in their old bearings is a cheaper way to collect data than extracting them yourself. If I was trying to produce the best possible retrofit part, I'd want a huge sample set...
I'm certainly not saying that any conspiracy theories about why the bearings are being collected is wrong - just saying that there might be an engineering explanation as well...
They take the old one off your hands (which was a perfect one anyway) throw some sand in it and stick it on a drill for a few hours to make sure it's really effed up. Then they have evidence to show any doubters that they have lots of effed up bearings which kind of proves that they run a legit business and that they are not trying to scare the crap out of the posters on this board. I mean a 5% to 10% of all 996 ever produced. I wonder how many legit effed up bearings they have in stock????? They need to keep that % as high as possible. They are living off this board. Ask a 996 driver who does not know about rennlist if they know about the bearing in question. They will say WHAT????? and look at you as though you are a nut case. All joking apart. Why would they want the removed bearing???? My guess is as good as any other reason.
Hurdi, you are a complete ****. Is it safe to assume that in your reality the World Trade Center was a controlled demolition, Bin Laden is alive and working for Facebook, and the moon landing happened on a sound stage?
The reason they want removed bearings is to look at them and understand how they fail. I realize I'm speaking for LN without actually consulting Charles; but I'll donate a dollar to your favorite charity if I'm wrong and the reason really is that they are trying to bury the evidence of a conspiracy to defraud the 996 population.
No silly, the aliens took all the best specimens from earth for their own entertainment aboard their ship. People like Elvis, Bruce Lee, James Dean, JFK, John Belushi, etc. are all partying it up on a spaceship. They've all been given anti-aging drugs so they can party and entertain the aliens forever.
I do believe that LN Engineering profits from the hysteria that dominates these forums. That being said however a problem with the IMS bearing does exist. Possibly blown out of proportion from what percentage may be the reality but who amongst us is willing to take that chance. My bearing (like most) with 81k on it appeared to be in excellent shape, which I fully expected it to be. I just couldn't afford to be one of the unlucky 10 % who experience an engine failure. If a motor rebuild was around $5k I would not have replaced the bearing. $20k? That's a whole different story.
^ Exactly. Porsche doesn't make the motors, and the cores that exist get snapped up by rebuilders who want them for inventory...what's left for us is overpriced leftovers and sloppy seconds.
This has been standard procedure since 2008. This is done to ensure the retrofit bearing was not put into service after an original bearing had failed.
Each bearing thats returned has photos taken, a visual and measurable inspection, and then the data is loaded into a database with the vehicle's specifications, and VIN/ engine code logged down.
This is a double positive, as it keeps shops honest, and it gives data to the largest IMSB database in the world.
Unfortunately shops that are not Certified Installers can't be forced to send the unit in, as directed. Until thats done, the job really isn't complete.
Absolutely!!! That's why we push pre - evaluations, and that shop have good judgment and ethics. Replacing a bearing after failure is just plain dumb. People have no idea what exists for collateral damage deeper in the engine, how the IMS assembly handled the trauma, or how much debris was spread throughout the engine.
Makes zero sense.
Hey guys, I'll explain this one for the record. We have always required the old bearing to be sent in from day one. We disassemble the bearings, photograph them, and document the condition of the bearing along with vehicle vin and other relevant data. Then when we get a call about a particular car, we can look up if it has been retrofitted and all the information about that kit. We track every serial number on our end what type of kit it is, when it was made, etc. We can tell you a lot if the job is properly registered.
The other main reason for registration requiring the bearing is that there are many people and shops that have had the original bearing fail and they still put a retrofit in, resulting in the replacement bearing failing, or some other catastrophic failure, which then they come to us wanting us to buy them an engine.
Another part of the registration process is inclusion of the work order from the shop that put it it documenting the procedure and that it meets our guidelines and proper pre-qualification is done including the removal of the oil pan for inspection. You would be amazed at the number of shops that don't even bother to change the oil when putting a bearing in and we've had some even drain the old oil and reuse it. The level of incompetence is rampant.
These requirements are here to try to stop those shops cutting corners and doing work that shouldn't be carried out and ensure the best possible results from use of our products.
Agree.
Also my shop suggested it right away, and they didn't really end up making much money on me (they had a month waiting list at the time for an appointment), so it seems like something prudent to do on a 996. Hyped up, yes a little, but still a good thing to do.
+996. Very well said. I had mine replaced around 25k miles (car was really low mileage when we got it). At the end of the day, it isnt a ton of money for piece of mind. Is the ceramic bearing the BEST option? I dont know for sure, but it does seem like Jake and Charles have done the most research and have the most experience with the IMS bearing, so I trusted that theirs is probably the best researched/developed option. I just wish the IMS solution was avail when I had mine done.
There are many long standing shops in the Chicago area that are active in the PCA who we support as our local customers. That said, we do Retrofit and Solution installs as time permits and we can squeeze into our schedule at Bilt Racing Service with is located in the same building at LN. But with our busy race schedule and builds, we are limited in the number of procedures we can schedule. We are by no means the cheapest because we adhere strictly to the pre-procedure qualification and do everything that must be done to ensure the best possible outcome from the procedure and that pushes some people to look elsewhere for service. But it certainly is available if requested.
In aviation and heavy industry , it's very common to send components back to the oem for study . Data bases like the one described are built and the information is used to improve the next generation and develop system improvements . To infer an oem had ulterior motives is assinine .
Sometimes we do our own studies too .
I once took a part a bearing for a forensic metalurgy study , it was a roller bearing that failed , each ball was so heavy it took two of us to pick one up.
The study showed the grease system was undersized for the application , in arctic temperatures the flow rate slowed . The oem developed a heated feed with larger lines and injectors for Canadian and other cold climate locations .
Met these fine gentleman at PRI- I am in WI
And it seems a better choice since you are so close- Eurosport handle my motors when I raced
All great crews- now that I own a 996 C4 with a 105 K I need peace of mind and a new clutch - car is from California- no rust - thanks for the reply Charles
