Bad news on my recent 996 purchase :(

Hi everyone, I just wanted to get a second opinion on this: I was just told by a local mechanic inspecting my newly purchased 996 that I should take it back to the dealer I bought it from and get a refund. Of course this most likely won't be possible, but the mechanic told me they found oil mixing with water somewhere in the engine (they didn't say the location, I will update once I find out where) and said that I would need a new engine and quoted me about $7500-$13000. Near the price I paid for it. This price seems very steep to me, but I wanted to hear from you guys who have dealt with / experienced similar issues whether or not the mechanics quote is correct? If you need any more information please ask, I am new here and new to Porsche in general so fair warning I am not that knowledgeable about this stuff. Any help is appreciated, thanks

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Do you have any recourse on PPI not finding the problem?

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Once again I apologise for being a complete novice with this stuff, I'm not quite sure what PPI is?

It could just be a cracked head and intermix. If so it will be expensive but not $10k. Where are you located?

I think you are supposed to get the inspection before you buy the car

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I am in Southern Oregon (Medford). I'll post below a quote of what the mechanic said in the post inspection report.

PPI=PRE-purchase inspection. Done before you buy the car. What you have is called intermix, i.e., oil in the coolant. Usual suspects are cracked head and oil cooler. Need to have the cylinders checked for compression and leak down. Have this done before making any decisions. Cracked heads can be repaired unless the engine is D-chunked, cracked cylinder wall, usually #5 cylinder or #6 cylinder. You have choices to make, and it also depends on how much the engine was run in its present state. The other main thing to do is completely flush the coolant system asap. Need to get the oil out of the coolant system or you will ruin every coolant hose on the car.

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Unfortunately there are none locally so I was unable to do that at the time. I am honestly willing to spend some more on this car to get it fixed because I really like it, just not $13000.

If you bought it at a dealership, it certainly wouldn't hurt to go back in there and serve up a steaming plate of "WTF?!?" - some amount of doctoring is usually required to mask intermix long enough for the next sucker - er, owner - to take delivery; if you have a suspicion they knew and foisted a lemon on you, call your local TV station and ask if they have a consumer advocate who might be interested in a scummy dealership. Sorry this happened. Unfortunately, it's a not-uncommon practice with ANY used vehicle, but it sucks all the more when it's a car where replacement engines cost more than a Chinese kidney.

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Here is what the mechanic said in the 'work performed' report: "During PPI found excessive amount of oil in the coolant expansion tank. Found excessive water in the engine filter neck. Engine oil low despite just being changed as per oil sticker. Stopping Inspection at this time. Engine needs head gaskets or cylinder heads. Vehicle was just purchased. Recommend send back to seller, or replace the engine. Est. $7500-13500. No charge to customer at this time. Photos available. This is a known issue." I have attached a picture they took as well.

Does your state have an implied used car warranty law? In Illinois dealer's have to offer a 15 day/500 mile warranty on used cars below 150,000 miles. "Illinois law requires that this vehicle will be free of a defect in a power train component for 15 days or 500 miles after delivery, whichever is earlier, except with regard to particular defects disclosed on the first page of this agreement. "Power train component" means the engine block, head, all internal engine parts, oil pan and gaskets, water pump, intake manifold, transmission, and all internal transmission parts, torque converter, drive shaft, universal joints, rear axle and all rear axle internal parts, and rear wheel bearings. You (the consumer) will have to pay up to $100 for each of the first 2 repairs if the warranty is violated."

Be happy you're in Oregon https://consumerlaw.osbar.org/2014/0...ns-as-isright/

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good luck OP

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You're learning the hard way about an anecdote we like to repeat around here. "There's no such thing as a cheap Porsche." - aka - "It doesn't matter what you paid - they're all $35,000 cars eventually." The prices for repairs are going to reflect the MSRP, not what you paid. So, sadly, $13,000 is going to be the more accurate number. $7,500 on a bad engine would be what we call around here "getting lucky." Best of luck to you my friend, I'm sorry this was your introduction to the 996. They really are spanking good cars. I hope you can figure out how to stay in one. If you're not interested in repairing this one, it may be time to lawyer up...

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Great news for the OP. The key clause from the link: it is also a violation for a dealer to fail to disclose material nonconformities or defects that the dealer has �negligently disregarded when the dealer or broker should have known, prior to sale or lease of a motor vehicle.

Every used car should be inspected by a certified mechanic before purchase, always!

Re read the post with the pic where it says excessive amounts of oil in the coolant reservoir here is what I wrote before I read that: Hurmmmmm - I'm going to say perhaps drain the coolant and have a better look? Or post a picture of whats in the expansion tank as from that image alone it looks fairly clear. That kind of condensation can happen in the filler neck if driven very short trips and not burnt off. Also oil can get into the coolant in a variety of different ways - via the heat exchanger (unlikely) or even the air oil separator. Either way - something not quite right but possibly various degrees of wrong from minor to sinister... OP I'd take it back to the dealership and seek legal advice - car has intermix.

How do you prove that the dealer knew about this?

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maybe if they opened to oil fill, they would have seen it??

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Right but who is to say this wasn't a freak thing that happened in the last few miles? I don't know how long this takes to develop or the flood gates just open and its all mixed together. I dunno how long the new owner has had, I certainly hope they get it resolved. It just sucks because in most places its very hard to prove that this was the fault of someone else.

"Knew or should have known" is that slippery language where the buyer can point the finger to the Dealer and claim that "as a professional reseller of automobile, the selling dealer should have known this obvious defect if they had done a) an oil change, b) checking and refilling its oil, c) performed a 50 point inspection which many dealers claim to do as a matter of practice on a used car. Good luck. I think you have a strong case, but not an airtight case.

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I disagree. I think we can all agree that due diligence should be done prior to a purchase, but this statement is a bit over the top. As long as the buyer knows what the risks are and has taken steps to mitigate the risks to suit his/her tolerance level, go for it.

$7500-$13000 would seem to be a low replacement cost based on numbers guys/girls have spent according to this forum. Best of luck!

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Let's examine the risk / reward equation regarding a quality PPI. 1. Don't get a PPI. Reward - save around $400 -$500. Risk - very expensive repair shortly after purchase. 2. Get a PPI. Risk - I spend $400- $500 and the car is perfect. Reward - the expensive repair is done by the dealer before purchase. The prudent choice seems obvious to me. Even if the PPI finds no problems, that would be money well spent for peace of mind.

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Like the original comment regarding all cars getting a PPI, this is a ridiculously broad statement full of assumptions. You assume that getting a PPI means all problems will be found, and that no other problems will occur. Stuff breaks. No PPI can guarantee a perfect car, all it can do (at best) is find obvious defects. You assume not getting a PPI means that problems will happen right after purchase. That's just silly. Regarding risk/reward: Not getting a PPI does save money. No much, however, given potential cost of repairs. But a buyer may decide that that risk of skipping is worth it if there if competition for a single car (make it easy for the seller, get the car) or if the car is well documented and owned by a trusted seller. And the part about a "Certified mechanic"? Certified by whom? ASE? Porsche? God? Some of the best techs I've known don't bother with certification; they thrive on reputation. Again, I'm not saying that a PPI isn't a good idea for the uninformed buyer. I'm just saying that a PPI is risk/reward, and arguing that 100% of the time a PPI by a certified tech is over the top. YMMV. Full disclosure: I've bought dozens of cars and never done a PPI. I am not a "certified mechanic" but know enough to reduce risk to a point where it makes sense to me.

More info is really needed in regards to if it's worth returning to dealer. I would make sure the shop working on car is well versed in this make and model. Maybe ask forum for suggestions in your area. sorry for your problems. These cars can get very $$, fast. Step back for a bit if you have to, and evaluate your options. good luck to you.

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Hello Daston654, Let's break down the mechanics report a little more, shall we? This is really nothing to worry about. Yellowish oil froth is normal when these cars sit for long periods of time. Moisture in the filler tube mixes with the oil coated on the inner liner of the tube and the result is a nice yellow froth. Once the car is driven for a while, this will go away. This mechanic loses a little bit of credibility with this statement. It's been well documented and discussed that the head gaskets on these engine don't fail. However, if you keep the car, you will definitely need head replacement or have the current heads repaired. More then likely, you have a crack in the heads. The first part is not bad advice. I would immediately contact the seller with this information. If this dealership is concerned about their reputation, they'll take it back. But many states don't allow such if it was sold to you as-is. Once you drive it off the lot, it's your car regardless of condition. That's why (as others have said) it vital to get a PRE -purchase inspection over a POST -purchase inspection. Let's say you're stuck with the car. You then have two options on the table - 1.) sell it as a virtual "roller" and expect to get about $5-$7K on average. 2.) Repair the engine and enjoy the car. This engine might not need a full rebuild, but with so many problems with these M96 engines, it's not entirely unwise to have a full rebuild done by a shop like Flat 6 Innovations. But it will cost you more than what you paid for the car. That's a fact. At the very least, you have intermix as DBjoe pointed out and that wouldn't be as expensive to repair of course, but he's absolutely right, you must flush the coolant intermix out of the cooling system or it will wreak havoc on all the coolant hoses. There was a guy on YouTube that purchased a 996 that had been repaired for intermix. The last shop neglected to fully flush the coolant intermix and the hoses turned into mush. Apparently, the oil/coolant mixture is a deadly concoction for rubber hoses. I'm starting to like this mechanic. Well, we hope for a positive outcome and please report back on what happens.

What year, how many miles and when did you buy it before it failed? Just curious.

This is another first post to RL top 10 hall of fame ward nominee. Only finds RL after purchase. Curious why post purchase inspection? Post picture of car and help us with mileage and year. if I missed this in earlier post sorry.

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Happens more frequently with other brands than you think. People do get caught up in the moment and push the buy button. That is part of the fun in buying � then they go and have someone look at the purchase to see what it's needed. I've done post purchase inspection for a few cars. One needed a valve job and the owner was willing to spring for it. He is upside down but he doesn't care.

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I think his point about getting a PPI was a value statement, and he�s right. Folks that skip PPIs based on the added cost are making the wrong bet: 1.) These cars are $35-$50k cars over a long time period. A PPI represents 1-2% added cost, which is trivial in the grand scheme of things. 2.) Even if the $500 doesn�t find the smoking gun items, it will likely find something. The odds that it finds something worth $500 is pretty high, so now folks might be in a position to negotiate the purchase price. On the other hand, your ability/skill/knowledge to buy cars without a PPI says more about you than it does about the car or advice in general. I bet you decided not to buy a specific car because something you found or intuited told you the car might be trouble. You may have saved $2500 forgoing PPIs in several cars you bought over the years. If a PPI isn�t mandatory good advice, the ones that need it the most might be the ones that are more likely to skip it. In conclusion, when it comes to giving advice, we should stress - as ridiculous as it might seem - folks should always get a PPI. BTW, when I joined this forum in 2003, everyone in the air-cooled section said the same thing: always get a PPI. Completely changing topics, my recent $8,000 estimate to fix some basic issues with my car, leads me to want to ask the mods for a sticky that revised the quote from �These are all $20,000-$25,000 cars� to �These are all $30,000-$45,000 cars.� EDIT: �And if you are great at DIY, you can probably save five-figures-worth of labor cost on these cars.�

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I could be mistaken, but this is the second intermix 996 in Oregon. Who has that thread handy? I found it here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1132277-water-oil-mix-in-coolant-reservoir.html

Why post inspection? In Other Words did something prompt the wouldbe buyer or?

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FACT!!!! ...not that it makes me happy to admit it. Mike

This week I had 3 M9X submission tickets from 996 owners with failures. Two of these were bore scoring, the other was a supposed IMSB failure(I think that one is misdiagnosed, but we shall see). Another came in from a 996TT that's having odd cam timing behavior, and throwing some codes. The constant between all of these was the owner had the car for only a few weeks. The 3 M9X failures had owners that had the car less than a month. NONE of these buyers had a PPI performed. All three of the cars had less than 50K miles, and the 996TT had less than 40K logged. ALL of these buyers at some time in their dialogue with me directly, used the words "dream car". So, from what I gathered, all of these buyers were finally in the position to buy their first Porsche. They were seeing the world through "rose colored glasses", and everything was unicorns, and rainbows because the car "was pristine" ands the car was "low mileage". These buyers entered the arena as huge targets for the sellers, and two of these cars already had symptoms when they were purchased. The buyers were so in love, they were like a teenage boy that just got his first piece. I swear, they act just like that, and are just as heart broken as when the girl does what she is going to do. One of them even said "The stress from this has made me physically ill". I had to remind him that he had a first world problem, and not to worry about anything that money can fix. I reminded him that he could be thousands of miles away, deployed with a rifle in his hand, or he could be fighting a medical battle. This is true. All of these buyers made critical mistakes: -They were all looking for a "dream car" and had their defenses down -They believed a low mileage car could not have issues -They did not seek out their own PPI -One of them did get a PPI, but it was done at the dealer the car was bought from (absolutely freakin worthless) -One of them was bought knowing that it had an illuminated CEL This week was heavier than average with submission tickets, but it seems like almost weekly I hear the same stories. They always start with "dream car" and they end in a nightmare. A nightmare that a well- informed, and focused purchaser would not have to experience. Slow down, lose the "dream" and put a focus on making a wise purchase, of the right car that has passed a semi- invasive PPI. Don;t worry about putting the seller through a hassle, or complicating things. One thing is for damn sure, you need to avoid submitting a ticket through my ticketing system that fits the category of "I just bought a Porsche, and need help!". Only you can do that. Oh yeah, a Post Purchase inspection is punishment. It highlights all the things that are wrong with the car that you should have let go when it failed the pre- purchase inspection. Sorry for bringing it to you guys so directly, but this is the only way that people actually get the damn point these days. Smash the rose colored glasses, and look at every car objectively. Be hard to please, and choose the MOST EXPENSIVE PPI that you can find, and ask for their PPI checklist up front.

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^^THIS^^

What year is your car, there's some nice 3.8 heads look like later vario cam plus heads, reckoned and ported, they only �700 gbp for the pair , guy needs a quick sale apparently , I'm not affiliated in any way, I'd have bought them for spare but my engine is early model different heads, might save you this with a bit of an upgrade with the porting!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F254397922166

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And likely the dealer was the first that got screwed in the deal... As we help owners become more informed, they diagnose their own issues, and then sell the car before symptoms are apparent. They pass it onto a dealer, because they don't want to screw the buyer, and would rather screw a company. Any the end of the day, they still screwed a fellow Porsche owner.

The first Porsche 996 I wanted to purchase, (I am Upstate NY) Northern CA, Large Dealership of American Brand Car, no recent Porsches in their inventory, not familiar with cars. 2002 Yellow Cab, only 26,000 miles.Stunning car. Sales people were very helpful. I read on 6 speed and here on RL, get a PPI I had car sent to local Porsche dealer, at the time PPI was $250 plus tax. PPI, indicated eminent engine failure ahead, IMS let loose on way back to Dealer. Dealer refunded deposit and apologized. I was out the money for PPI, but it was worth it. I will never forget.

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Sorry for the late responses... It's a 2001 911 Carrera (not S or 4) with about 87000 miles. I purchased it last weekend, the mechanic said this issue obviously had been going on for some time (though I'm not sure how he can tell). Thank you for your very detailed comment! I'm going to check the oil filler neck and coolant tank today myself (now that it's light out) and I'll upload some pictures of what I find. On Monday I was planning on taking it into another mechanic that's recommended by my local PCA (Porsche Club) for a second opinion, and see what they say. This was honestly my first vehicle purchase ever, at this point I know I of course made a mistake but now I am trying to do what I can to fix it... Year is 2001, mileage is approx. 87000: Thanks for the link! I will check those out. I'm not 100% sure what I'm dealing with yet, but what I can say is that the engine seems to be running perfectly fine (pressure gauge normal, temperature normal, sound is normal) and it drives very well... I'm not well versed with this issue though and I suspect it is probably something that seems okay for a while then someday will suddenly break down my car.

More pictures-- Coolant Tank Cap: Coolant tank: Oil filler:

Intermix, for sure

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I would not take it to another mechanic. The pics of the coolant tank are pretty certain (intermix). The only thing I would be putting 95% of my time into with this car is getting my money back. And that means contacting an attorney, working with the dealer, and insisting they take the car back. I would also post the VIN here so that a future buyer is not screwed if the car just goes back to auction.

Please,please don�t kick the can down the road go back to dealer/seller and rescind sale now.............!!! Dont try to save this one you will be upside down quickly,there are better ones out there.

Yep. You have oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil. Did you purchase from a well known brand dealership or a mom n pop lot? Might make a difference when trying to get your money back. I bought mine a couple months ago from a BMW dealer out of state. Came with a 30 day/1000 mile warranty.

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And there ya go.. Every car that's bought is a potential problem that's yet to be identified. I have been tempted to buy and sell some "Flat 6 Certified" cars equipped with my engines.. Then I remember that it would be impossible to sell a car that would live up to the expectations of a buyer, if it came from me (no matter how good it was). I want to sell my 964, and can't even do that without worry the wrong dude gets it.

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Of all people to buy a used car from, folks would certainly trust buying one from you Jake. Hell, I�d love a nice 964. The price of entry is just outta reach for me.

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That's close to what I'm saying. I'm not saying that a PPI is a bad idea. My objection was to the comment that a PPI is "always" necessary by a "certified technician" which I felt was over the top. I'd alter the comment above to say: " Folks Uneducated buyers that skip PPIs based on the added cost are may be making the wrong bet"

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The issue is that they�d consider the reputation rather than the car. The more they�d pay, the harder they�d be to please. Been there, done that with engines. If I ever did it I would require the buyer come look at the car in person, and meet me. I would pay for the airfare and I would put them up for free at my Rennhaus as part of the deal. when they come look at the car, they�d drive it to a shop of their choice in Atlanta for a 3rd party PPI. I would not consider doing it any other way. No warranty after that, because their decision is to be final, if I agreed to sell it to them. Anyway, this is the 964. Stunning interior and exterior. All new rubber, seals and etc. Paint is 3 years old and 10/10, interior is 2 years old and 10/10. I spent a lot of time restoring the car. It needs an ABS module and the climate control module repaired. 45k to get it gone, I�m selling all my Porsche cars, except my old 912E.

That looks mint! Should be an quick sale at 45k.

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It has 210K miles. People want a pristine car to decorate their garage with, that they can brag to their buddies about having no miles on it. A stunning car that has been driven doesn�t impress today�s aircooled buyers. I built the car to keep, now I am done with Porsche ownership.

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BEST THREAD HIJACK OF THE DECADE^

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close 2nd

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And you got to add to it.

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Forgive me master.......or the great powerful OZ. I guess this means I'll never get to open a ticket.😊 Raby out? maybe an apology for stepping all over his thread? Yeah right.

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Is the silver 964 (or for that matter, any of your other cars) listed for sale anywhere?

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Kinda harsh dude. The thread answered the OP�s original question. He knows what he has to do now. Ran it�s course, then took a slight left turn. Still related to how to buy a used P car.

If Jake's out, I guess it's time to short the 996/997 market.

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None have been listed. I am probably going to sell them to a dealer to make it simpler to deal with. I�m not �out�. We�ll keep doing what we�ve always done here at Flat 6. I am just personally done with Porsche ownership. My old 912E is one I�ve had for 24 years, and I simply can�t sell it.. Though I have driven it less than 600 miles in 10 years.

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Every forum should follow on topic ediqute. Flexing for fanboys on other people's threads.😴 this thread has nothing to do with purchasing a used porsche....well until it got hijacked. harsh? Sorry for bringing it to you guys so directly, but this is the only way that people actually get the damn point these days.

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Sincerest apologies for not following your rules. Didn�t realize you�re a mod. What�s �ediqute�? I think before trying to enforce your forum etiquette on others, maybe crack open a dictionary. Seems you�re the one doing the flexing, trying to pick keyboard fights with others.

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I'm about to make some eggs and eat some Cheerios. The flavored Cheerios.

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thanks BH!

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thanks PG!

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Scrambled eggs.

I should give credit to Jake on my last comment. If u fanboys can't tell, that's your boyz quote.

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thanks PG!

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Oh, while I have you. Have you considered joining Louder with Crowder's Mug Club? If not, you should. He's funny.

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no. the cheerios bit is so old.....

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The point...

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Says fanboy. I knew ud be here.....

Some people are just wound up way to tight... Loosen up and relax!

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touch�! whatever it is, Raby didn't show any.

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I was raised by wolves. Not my fault.

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Oh my! How will I ever survive? He called me a "fanboy"! I am so offended! Yawn...wake me up if anything interesting occurs... BTW "ud" should be "you would" or could be shortened to "you'd". Maybe you thought you were tweeting and needed to save characters.

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than y koment? Evar post teknakal advise? Cheaq rightar? Not that their is anithing rong with that.... does that feline have anything to do with your personality?

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Oh I get it! This one of those "the last word wins" deals like in third grade. I give...you win. Congratulations...

Wow. This might end in the abyss soon. I'd better get in before it's too late. Either someone sobers up, or passes out.... My condolences on the loss by the Vikings. Imagine what it must be like to be a Lions fan.

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Go Pack Go!😉

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thanks, man!

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GB just won their last game of the season...

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Moneybags flexing on us over here...

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Really sorry you're experiencing this. Unfortunately, the writing is on the wall in this case--it's a cracked head until proven otherwise. Luckily, the crack can most likely be repaired. However, to do so involves a considerable amount of labor (engine removal, dismantling all accessories, and separating the heads) just to find the crack. Then the heads have to be crated away, repaired, and then returned to you for re-assembly. If you can do all the labor yourself, then it's likely a good financial option. Asking a shop to do so will be very costly. Although I don't think it would exceed that original $13k estimate it's unclear how many other items will need replacing once the engine is disassembled. I imagine all the coolant hoses will need to be replaced (oil ruins them), a fair amount of while-you're-there items (air oil separator, water pump, plugs, coils etc.), and maybe even a clutch, rear main seal, and IMS bearing. You would have to invest a lot of time/waiting as well as money. The upside is that you would hopefully have a mechanically sound car for the foreseeable future. There are a handful of threads documenting other owner's experiences with cracked heads. I highly recommend reading through them to see if this is a problem you really want to fix. Everything from total cost, engine removal, who to send the engine for repair etc is all there. Personally, I would visit the selling dealership and show them what was discovered to obtain a refund. In an earlier post it mentioned that an "oil service" had recently been done. If this was performed by the dealer then it is hard to believe they did not see all that residue. It would be even harder to believe that they never inspected the coolant or oil dipstick before making the sale. Edit -- some links https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...996-1-3-a.html https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-the-yard.html https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...mix-issue.html

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Thanks for the response. I know someone else here recommended not to take it somewhere else, but after going to my local PCA (Porsche Club) meeting, I was advised to bring it to the clubs recommended mechanic for a second opinion. The mechanic there seemed a bit surprised that the other mechanic I had brought it to stopped the inspection and came to the conclusion that the engine needed to be replaced when he saw the intermix in the oil filler neck and coolant tank. They are going to try to trace the problem out a bit further to determine whether or not it is a cracked head, and let me know what needs to be done from there. Of course, something is definitely wrong as coolant and oil aren't meant be be intermixed. I personally am not too optimistic as to what they may find and am still assuming the worst I will update you all on what they find. I have been in talks with the dealer I bought it from since I was made aware of the situation last Friday. I respect that they are at least still keeping in contact with me since I know they could just tell me to shove it and get a lawyer. I would like to avoid legal fees if possible.. but I have been documenting everything and also getting written confirmation from the mechanics in case. We'll see what the mechanic says after today's lookover...

^^^^ Keep us posted. I wish you the best of luck with the eventual outcome. Mike

I'd be interested to know what all the PCA-recommended mechanic does in terms of narrowing down the source of the intermix. As I recall, there are really only a few culprits. Most notably a cracked head, bad AOS or failed heat exchanger. The AOS and heat exchanger can be inspected/replaced, but diagnosing a crack in the head is relatively more involved. I recall one thread (think it was the "my milkshake brings..." thread) where that guy did a leak check to try and rule out a cracked head, but he ended up getting a false negative result. He was only able to diagnose the cracked head after splitting the engine case. What has the dealership said to you so far?

The repair shop that it's currently at got back to me and said that after inspecting it they believe it actually isn't related to a cracked cylinder head, he got into the details with me but I honestly don't remember all of it as some of what he said went over my head. They believe it is (I'm writing this out of memory so correct me if I say this wrong) the oil cooler separator and an attached O-ring? They are going to send me the report over email, so I will type that out once I receive it.

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I'm guessing air oil separator. So like 1200 bucks or so. I didn't think a bad AOS causes intermix though. Nevermind, I get it, engine oil heat exchanger was what he said. Though I have to wonder how long it was driven like this doing untold damage and why if the law gives you an out you are bothering trying to salvage this purchase.

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What you are about to engage in, is a finger pointing exercise between shops. The wisest thing to do when seeking a second shop, is never tell that second shop that they are number 2. See what they say without the influence of the second shop being considered. The results you get will always be different if a rival, or anyone else is involved. Also, regional PCA groups, (or any club for that matter) are more likely to "recommend" someone for reasons that are political, or what are best for the club, rather than what are best for you. I have seen this happen over, and over, and over again. Recommendations should be earned from effectiveness, and nothing else. You won't see that in 90% of the cases with referrals from any group, for any service, for anything you'll work with. "Oil cooler separator" What is that? An oil cooler, or an air/ oil separator? It sounds like this shop wants to throw a part at it, rather than full diagnosis first. If they are trying to say the "oil cooler" is bad, and the seals for it, then, make them prove it before you buy a new one (its actually not a freakin oil cooler, its a heat exchanger!). Remove the "Heat exchanger" and use the Stomski Racing testing device to pressure test it. If it fails the test, then replace it with confidence. If it does NOT fail the test, then reinstall it, with confidence that it is not the problem, and you have a cracked head, or one of 4 other issues leading to intermix. I see misdiagnoses with this all the time, and every car that finally ends up here does so with a brand new "oil cooler" fitted to it, and money thrown away. If the shop is proficient and properly experienced with these engines, they will already have the Stomski tool (or one they made themselves!) sitting in a toolbox ready to rock. If they have to "order" it, then the car is at the wrong shop~ Make them test, confirm, and then replace. Start throwing parts at it, and guess who loses? You are paying for their training~ Is the car a manual, or a tip? YES, it matters.

Thank you for the help Jake. It is an automatic. 'Oil cooler separator' was entirely my bad, I couldn't remember exactly what they referred to it as so I tried to come as close as possible. I just received the quote, they called it the 'Oil Cooler' with the O-rings, and the 'Engine Expansion Tank', both of them needing to be replaced.

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Would definitely need to figure out which component (air oil separator vs heat exchanger) they believe is causing the intermix per this mechanic/s email to you. When you test drove the car did you ever notice a large amount of white smoke from the exhaust? Search YouTube for "failed AOS 996" for examples. Also, what has the dealership, who sold you the car, said to you since you brought this intermix problem to their attention? It appears Oregon law would protect your sale fully.

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Every 996 on the road needs the coolant tank replaced. Do that. BUT do not authorize the heat exchanger replacement unless they can prove to you the current one has failed. They should recommend an authorization to "remove and test" the current unit, then go from there. Removal and replacement just means they are guessing. Don't pay for guessing. Every car on the road with a heat exchanger could fail, not just a 996, so maybe they have experience with other engines leading them to this. Other engines do not have the issues the M9X does, and therefore they are treating it like something it is not. Fact: In the last 18 years we have had two intermix cases that were confirmed heat exchanger failures. ALL others were internal issues, and most came here with a new heat exchanger fitted, a disgruntled owner, and they came from a shop that didn't know the idiosyncrasies of the M9X specifically. Not saying it can't happen.., Just saying that unlike other engines the M9X is less probable to have a heat exchanger failure, and internal issues, where everything else is the opposite. How'd I guess... Now, it gets more complicated... The Tiptronic transaxle also uses the same heat exchanger mounted to the side of it to keep the trans fluid at the proper temperature. Guess what? This one can also fail and create intermix of oil in the coolant, but it cannot get coolant into the oil. The same coolant passes through both heat exchangers, as it "exchanges" the heat between the fluids within the drivetrain. Again, ask for a conclusive test of the heat exchanger. If they can't do that, or refuse, you have just tested them, and they have failed.

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I just called them and they said they would be able to test it if I wanted them to. He said that their belief that it is the oil cooler is because there is very little to no coolant in the oil, whereas there is a lot of oil in the coolant, in fact he stated that aside from the gunk that was at the top of the filler neck (which the previous mechanic pointed out), the oil actually seemed normal. He told me that in previous repairs with cracked cylinder heads they found significant amounts of both substances in both compartments, whereas in my case it was pretty much isolated to mixing in the coolant compartment.

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Should I have them test that other heat exchanger as well? They are going to test this one for me before hand. I'll see what they get back to me results wise.

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I could tell you 10+ different characteristics that cracked heads can have in regard to how things intermix. Where the crack is, what it bridges together, how hot the engine was when it occurred, and etc are all players here. Have them test both heat exchangers, and get them to video the results, and post that here, please. My wager is that you will not have a bad heat exchanger. Maybe I am wrong, but they need to prove it. :-)

FWIW it requires very little to pressure test one,, put 25PSI in one side and put it under water.. if there is a leak it will bubble.. 2 pieces of hose, a T and some fittings.. If they do them at all they should already have something to do it with..

Stopped by the mechanic today, they said the test won't be completed till maybe Thursday.

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Sounds like they had to order the tool to test the heat exchanger... Guess what that means? They've never tested one. Its about to get interesting, and I hope for your sake that I am wrong!

In their defense they did say they had what was needed in order to test the oil cooler, I could tell they were pretty busy when I went in earlier if you are referring to the long wait time. That being said, your suspicions were confirmed as they also admitted they weren't 100% sure it was the oil cooler and said it was either that or a cracked head. Their recommendation if it is a cracked head is also to return the vehicle to the seller. I know many people were saying to contact an attorney, so as an update in that regard I have. In fact, I have been documenting everything including times and getting written statements from the mechanics since I first found out about the issue in case. The first mechanic I brought the vehicle to contacted the shop that did the last oil change in the car (Feb. 2019) and after telling them which vehicle it was in regards to the problem it has they said 'That sounds about right.' Just to be clear, this is a car dealer that I bought it from, not a private party.

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Sounds good to me. You are doing everything as well as you can. Have you alerted the dealer to all of these latest goings on? If I had to take a guess, the prior owner performed a "Max Attack" as we call it (derived from CarMax having such an inviting way to do this!).. He caught the intermix issue, and then cleaned the cooling system. They haul the car as close to the dealer as they can, and they fire it up, and drive it to them. No one catches the issue, since the car has not ran long enough for the thermostat to open, and distribute the intermix back to the reservoir. They get their check and drive away. The car gets driven around the dealer lot, and never gets up to temp, and the thermostat never really opens.. Due to this the intermix isn't noted.. In some cases the larger dealer will sell it at an auction to a smaller dealer, who then hauls it to their lot, knowing nothing.. The new owner then buys his "dream car". A week later, he has a nightmare, his wife wants to rip his ***** off for spending money on a car they didn't need, that now needs thousands in repairs. Can you tell that I have put this whole set of events together in the past? Yep, we have diagnosed cars, had them picked up, then 3 weeks later the same car comes back with the same issues, and a new owner's name on the ticket. Boom.

Try bringing a "surprise roller" home to your wife, then ask for forgiveness ...LOL! She now loves it!

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That works, as long as she doesn't have your *****, in her purse!

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i believe you mentioned before that some people on this forum had dumped cars off on unsuspecting buyers? Just goes to show you ALWAYS need a PPI if you don�t know what you are looking for. It�s the world we live...trust no one.

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I did this but i didnt ask for forgiveness and she still doesnt like it. But thats really her problem not mine. I just paid for my first DE day in the spring and cant wait. To the OP i hope its the cooler but doubt it. If it is tbe head many have be successful in just repairing it for far less then a full rebuild, but an internal inspection would be needed to see how far u have to go.

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Yep, I've busted one red handed.

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After many many episodes, I have a different approach. I bought my wife her own 997 (tipt) for her to commute in. I no longer need to ask for forgiveness. This last Christmas, the Ducati showed up and she just said "Oh My God" and that was it. She is now getting all kinds of compliments on her Porsche from people at work, people at the gas stations, men at cross walks in front of her car, homeless people thinking she has money to give them. I don't know when I will stop putting up with men hitting on her and sell the car to go back to a Lexus.

@dashton654, sorry to read about your problem. Thanks for updating on this thread. Its become a very educational and compelling read. I'm hoping for a half-way decent outcome for you. Seems like if you could get the selling dealer to take it back and give you a refund then you could start over and find a better 911 without big mechanical issues. Just my 2 cents based on what I've read so far.

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I keep a separate checking account. There are some things that she just doesn't need to worry about...

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Dashton, I�m curious why you are putting in all this time and effort running from shop to shop rather than driving straight over to the dealer and asking them to refund your money. The longer you wait the more I�d be afraid they�d tell you to go pound sand.

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I bought my first 911 in 1970, and have purchased four others since then. I currently own a 981S and 981 GT3. In my case I always buy new. So my advice regarding the PPI isn't from my own experience, but from the numerous Porsche owners I have had the pleasure of meeting over the decades and 100% of those who purchased used Porsches got a PPI. Does a PPI guarantee a zero problem car? Of course not, just like wearing seat belts doesn't guarantee that you won't be injured in an auto accident. But I believe that the vast majority of drivers believe that wearing seat belts is a good idea. If I ever bought a used car, the only time I wouldn't consider getting a PPI, is if the car was a CPO. One final point. I wouldn't look to save money on a PPI. A friend of mine got one last year and paid $150 for the report, and it was IMO worthless. OTOH I've seen much more expensive PPIs which provided an exhaustive report listing everything that was checked and its condition. Here's what a comprehensive PPI should include: Body Check for any rust Check for any indication of accident Measure and document paint thicknesses (hood, engine lid, doors, fenders front and rear) Look for any peeling or discolored paint Check for bent rims inside and out Document tire manufacturer type and tread depths Look for any indication of water leakage in passenger compartment Mechanical Check front differential flange seals for leaks Check for any visible oil leaks including RMS Check slave cylinder Check for coolant hose fix Confirm no cracks in rotors Document remaining brake pad life Check for leakage on clutch master cylinder Check rear spoiler operation Drive and check for second gear pop out Check suspension system; confirm OEM or aftermarket Confirm oil level gage works Inspect turbos and hoses Inspect front radiator for leakage Check Air Conditioning system Inspect expansion tank for leaks Confirm OEM versus aftermarket exhaust Confirm all hoses, wiring harnesses, and heat shields are routed and installed correctly (can be an indication of major repair by an unqualified shop) Electrical Check for any cracked coil packs Check and document alternator charging voltage at the battery Confirm all dash lights work then go out when car is started Check electrical switches including seat switches Pull all OBD codes Print over rev report Extra Perform Compression test and leak down test (discuss need for leak down test following compression test)

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So don't check anything inside the engine...?

This thread is by far the most interesting read of 2020 so far. I think I will stick to aircooleds......... Hope everything works out for the OP Best, Paul

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For sanity reasons the mechanic I brought the car to and is testing the oil cooler will let me borrow it after they get it out, and I'm going to bring it to a local radiator shop that tests oil coolers frequently for a second opinion test. I'll ask them to record a video of the test, I was recommended to them for oil cooler testing. Though they aren't familiar with Porsches, they just asked me if it is something that can be plugged on both ends, which I assumed yes. They said it would also be helpful to know what PSI to test it at, which I saw someone post here was 25psi, is this correct?

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Alright, sorry it's been a while since an update: Last week I got the quote back from the second mechanic stating that they determined it to be either an issue with the oil cooler, or a cracked cylinder head (1-3), but further investigation would need to be done. They were iffy on the pressure testing of the oil cooler, so I had my doubts in them being able to have a conclusive result either way. The seller reached out to me and said that before any discussions can take place he needed to have the car looked at at his mechanic. I towed the 911 up there last weekend and dropped it off at his mechanic, after they told me they were going to do a leakdown test and pressure test the oil cooler. It took them a while to get back to me, but today they returned my call saying that their oil cooler pressure test was inconclusive because the pressure testing equipment they built was unsatisfactory. They recommended just replacing the oil cooler, and they quoted me at $1300 for the replacement (which I don't even know if it is the problem), and he said that he is giving me a good deal with that repair price. This was obviously upsetting to me since I'd rather know this is the reason for the failure. I have tried to contact every mechanic that works on Porsches around me and in Portland to see if they pressure test oil coolers regularly or know how to and I get the same response every time; they either have to put something together to do it or tell me they just recommend changing it out with a new one at that point. Does anyone know of a mechanic in Portland Oregon or very close that would be able to pressure test the oil cooler confidently? Or last case scenario, if I were to pressure test it myself, what would I need to do? Is there any other tests I can have done to prove that it is a cracked cylinder head rather than anything else? The sellers mechanic (where it is at currently) said I would have noticed issues with the engine overheating if it is a cracked cylinder head (I don't know if this is true or not). The vehicle never overheats and always stays in the 180 deg. range on the engine temperature gage. At idle the vehicle sounds completely normal, and while driving the vehicle also sounds and operates normally. I'm not sure if I should be listening for something specifically or if this is just a phantom problem that rears its head once the engine just dies.

You are too nice. Lawyer up

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^^^ I have to agree with Bill - you're being taken advantage of (or they're really bad mechanics). Hindsight is 20/20, but in retrospect you should have brought the car back and demanded a refund as soon as you noticed the problem. I'm afraid at this point you're at a serious disadvantage and you're going to wind up taking a beating on this car. I hope this isn't the case - Good Luck

...and now they have the car... ...as they say, position is 9 and 4.7 tenths of the lawn... If you're following the J. Raby video thread it makes sense..... Seriously, I would never have left the car with them to F with, wouldn't let it out of my sight while it's there if I were you...

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The seller�s mechanic is wrong. He is using experience with other engines to dictate how this engine will behave. 1300 bucks to swap out a heat exchanger is a joke. Have them remove it, and send it to me. I�ll pressure test it for free and send it back to you. I won�t get involved in a court case, though.

Any recommendations for an experienced 996 mechanic dashton can take his car to for a proper diagnosis?

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Not in that area.. The one guy I knew is closing his shop.

This is so insane to me. Guy gets a dud of a car. By some bizarre chance he happens to live in a state that gives him a get out of jail free card for this, and instead he spends weeks and weeks trying to salvage the car.

Its a hell of a story.

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Jake, Is there any way I can contact you privately? I know you are probably busy and I'd feel wrong disturbing your hotline with this matter. Thank you for all the help by the way.

As another update, after contacting the mechanic (seller's, where its at currently) again he still sticks with his belief that it is the oil cooler, but he recommends the seller to give me at least a 30 day grace period afterwards for the oil / water intermix to reaccumulate. He said if it accumulates again after the oil cooler is swapped out for a new one, then it is a cracked head and the seller should either accept the return for the vehicle with a refund or pay for the engine repair. This was somewhat relieving for me to hear, coming from the seller's own mechanic. That being said, is 30 days enough time (assuming I drive the vehicle every day) for the intermix to reaccumulate if the issue is a cracked head? Is there any way that they can hide such an issue for at least 30 days? He also said I could keep the old oil cooler and bring it wherever I wanted to test it...

If you have 30 days to return it in your state why not just wash your hands of it? Throwing 1300 at it to find out if it may be a catastrophic failure seems like a waste of your time and money.

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For real?? BTW has the intermix ever been flushed out of the car? If not will the seller pay for all the rubber hoses being changed when they start failing? This latest proposal: who would pay for the "oil cooler" change-out? You shouldn't IMHO. You already had the premier engine rebuilder throw cold water on the mechanics proposals. Is it too late for you to drag it back to the seller and demand a refund. If not too late then do it. This is for real...right? If real I wish you well. The first line of your original post: " I just wanted to get a second opinion on this: I was just told by a local mechanic inspecting my newly purchased 996 that I should take it back to the dealer I bought it from and get a refund." You've gotten a handful or more opinions. What more do you need?

To the OP, I'm not trying to be harsh but how much time have you missed from work dealing with this? How many rides have you had to arrange when you've left the car to be looked at? Isn't your time worth something ? I hate to be that guy but if I was you, this thread would have been done at page one with my post about how I returned the car and received a full refund. Just sayin'

Look I didn't mean to come in harsh in my post above, but...this does not seem to have a good outcome. Sometimes you just have to cut and run.

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I see this a lot. Guys look and look for a car, then they fall in love with their "dream car". They get it, and become attached to it immediately.. Then it has issues, and they do everything they can to keep that car. They'll second mortgage their house, take out loans, sign up for 3-4 credit cards, and make all sorts of irrational decisions to save THAT car. @dashton654 Yes, you can contact me, and yes I will help you. I may be an insensitive, self- centered *******, but I will help you. Submit a ticket through the site, and I'll set up a time to chat via phone.

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Oil Filter Service over not far off MLK is a specialty hydraulic shop. They may be able to test it. The only tricky part is the darn thing uses the o-rings instead of real fittings.. For a Indy I use Marque Motors,, they can likely hook you up with someone that can do the test. GOod Luck

Is the car in your possession? If you're handy its not that hard to replace the heat exchanger. I just did it on my car I can do a detailed write up for you. If you're not mechanically inclined feel free to ignore my suggestion. Its also not an expensive part, maybe just replace it if it's already out? $1300 seems excessive although it does involve dropping the coolant and refilling it. Did you ever see how much oil ended up in your coolant? Also maybe consider bailing on this particular car and just find another without the headaches?

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Just checking back in on this thread. Forgive me if I've missed something, but did you approach the dealership about making this right and taking the car back? Intermix at this level is going to be very costly to repair. I would hate my first Porsche to be a nightmare; hence, why Raby and others on the forum strongly recommend a professional pre-purchase inspection. But hindsight is 20/20 and so I hope you find a reasonable solution. If it were me, I would turned it around immediately. It would be very hard for me to believe the service department at the dealership didn't know about this problem when they inspected the vehicle. Did they charge you an inspection fee on the purchase agreement? Those types of fees are usually a gut punch, but it would also give you leverage if they put up a fight. Good luck!

Dash- Your best option is to follow through with post #130 asap.

Please cut and run and find a car that is worthy of your dedication. This one is not!

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He did.

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All right! Let's see if he listens.

Please spare me having to read every post, but has the OP named the dealership in question. I think it would be good for the Porsche community to know. I still can't believe they were selling this car without seeing this level of intermix.

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Could have been drain refilled and traded in and resold before anyone noticed...

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Yep, and until the thermostat opens the intermix won�t make its way back to the reservoir. I�ve even seen people put a ball bearing in the reservoir lines to keep the intermix from showing in the reservoir. In that case the coolant in the tank looks brand new, and everything in the rest of the system and engine is a nasty milkshake mess.. All to screw the next guy.

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I agree - there were 2 cases where a dealer in Oregon sold an intermix car in the last few months.

I almost wonder if he's (OP) enduring this pain just for entertainment value for us? I mean this would have been an immediate return and run. What's odd...the guy that should be in love with it is the guy that looked all over the country for the specific car in certain color with certain options and was smart enough for the PPI. But it appears that this was a whim purchase at a local sleezeball dealer without any prior Porsche knowledge. Could that be the reason he hasn't returned it. Is OP such a 996 newb that he's unaware just how many are out there that won't be hot garbage? There is no justification with being in the middle of this repair. Too replaceable of a car especially with the dealer on the hook by law.

I believe my car came from the same dealer,, trying to sort out if there is a pattern. Since my oil test was clean,, after 5500 on the oil ,, I'm not sure,, And since its been 6+ months not like I could do anything anyway.. However if there is sealer in the motor when it comes apart. There will be some discussion.

...updates?

I believe he was transporting the car home this week. Hopefully he will keep the updates coming..

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apparently not...

Car's on it's way to 9xx. Sounds like a cracked head, but he won't know for sure until they open it up. He'll update everyone when he has some answers...Stay tuned!

I too had the mix of death. It happened about 2 months after I bought it and I can't be sure if the previous owner knew about it or not. I suspect he did. I didn't have a PPI either. Previous owner was a long term owner, tons of maintenance records. I also spoke to his mechanic who said it was in great shape. For all I know the mechanic knew exactly what was going on and lied. Who knows? No way to prove any of it. Lesson learned. Never buy sans PPI again.

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^^^That would depend on the PPI - I'm sure there are plenty that wouldn't catch an intermix - especially if it's a crack that only opens up in high heat, high pressure situations. It's possible that the previous owner only drove it to the grocery store a couple times a week (if that) and never got it up to temperature. Or it's always possible that the intermix actually happened after you bought it/started driving it (seeing as it took 2 months to show up, maybe it was just a difference in the way you drove it/heat cycled it...). In any case, it's never fun to see a milkshake in your coolant reservoir.

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I'm just getting into Porsche ownership. Curious why you're getting out?

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Dealing with Porsche owners everyday for the last 28 years has finally worn on me. I feel like a hard (impossible) to please, jerk when I sit in my own cars, after all these years. The 964 went to a new owner last week, and the others are slowly making their departure as I **try** to find buyers for them that have reasonable expectations. I have shifted my focus to historic military vehicles, where everyone is like minded, most of us are Veterans, and we consider ourselves caretakers of history, rather than an owner of something. We keep things flying, and keep things rolling, and consider it our duty. When I attend events with military vehicles I can actually enjoy myself, not having to play 20 questions, or have jerks demanding free information from me. It's truly refreshing.

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That's too bad it has come to that, but I can certainly understand and relate(not in Porsches) that people can wear on you. It sounds like the military events is how Porsche ownership SHOULD be!

Pretty much.. Its kind of the way Porsche people, and events were 20 years ago...

Like the clowns that turn their noses when I tell them my speedster is a VW based replica...Happy to say I'm not a typical Porsche owner, just a car guy that saved one from the dismantler!

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Hoping there were still a *few* of us that were reasonable and easy to work with...

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I'm far from the typical Porsche owner. I just love great cars. The 911 is the funnest car I've driven. I also do most of my wrenching. This allows me to actually be able to afford to own one.

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911s...and any Porsche are just cars. Albeit more fun to drive than most others. But at the end of the day, just cars. Don�t understand the snootyness or rabid fanaticism that I sometimes encounter at cars and coffee meets. Don�t even get me started on the air cooled fanboys.....

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Yep, I didn't pick up my 996 to be part of some fan-boi club...I got it because I liked it and enjoy driving it.

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Your speedster is awesome! I love that thing

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This entire dynamic is what has me thinking off the wall. I want to take a 996 on the One Lap of America to show people one, not all Porsche owner's are like this. And two, the IMS solution really works. And three, the 996 is a great platform for performance duty. I'm tempted to pull my engine and take it to Jake with this silly goal in mind. Reinstall, break in, install Tequipment rollbar, Ohlins coilovers, and let her rip.

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There�s really nothing to prove.. We built a 996 last year with my R43 engine that made 470HP. It wasn�t built like a race engine, it would run 91 octane fuel. The goal was to drive it non- stop to the Arctic Circle. I believe this is much more grueling than running around a bunch of tracks, wasting tires and gas, while having to hang out with a bunch of other jerks that would love to see a 996 fail, especially if it had my engine fitted... Then I realized that an Arctic trip was a wasted effort, and we sold the car with only around 2,000 miles on the engine. People are going to think, and act however they are going to think, and act. Doing crazy stuff no longer makes an impact, because there�s always a group of critics, and haters looking to turn the tables. I�m beyond fed up with modern humans, and the Porsche industry as a whole. Its turned into a bunch of fakesters with big ads, and lies. Lots of lies. Lots of fakesters that haven�t earned their place in the industry. They have kissed magazine editor�s asses, and paid for their faux image. They run around signing people�s dash boards, with a bunch of groupies chasing after them called �followers�. Give me a freaking break! This year I cancelled all sponsorships, and pulled every advertisement. The only one I have left is my sponsorship here on RL, which I should abandon, too. Its 350 bucks a month to come here and give free advice. I should have my *** beat for doing it as many years as I have already. I recently realized how dumb it is to pay to give free advice! I think this will be my final month here.

..

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You sound terribly burned out now Jake. Please take a vacation and refresh There are many people here and elsewhere that appreciate your help and advice. Ignore the askholes and keep the faith. Your enthusiasm for solving the puzzle of improving what Porsche created was infectious. Don�t let that go.

Like they say..."thank you for your service." But to you, Jake, I say, "thank you SO VERY much for your FREAKING AWESOME service, not just to us here at Rennlist but to Porsche 996s in general...don't know HOW we would've kept so many of our own beloved cars on the road without your supreme dedication and awesome intellect!"

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Not at all.. We will keep doing what we�ve been doing. I don�t have to have a garage full of Porsche�s to do that.. None of them were water cooled, anyway.. I haven't owned a 996 in almost a decade, but that didn�t impact what we do here.

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Aren�t you paying to get your butt kicked here? If I took the amount of grief you get, I�d be even grumpier. I think if most people were honest with themselves, they�d agree. Honestly though, it�s not just Porsche owners. It�s a large swath of society that has lived such comfortable easy lives, they feel as if everyone owe�s them something, and in some cases, everything. It�s a societal issue. It�s also going worldwide. Life with stsrbucks, iphones, high speed internet, Uber eats, and water cooled Porsche�s is just too easy and comfortable. Most people expect to be spoiled all the time, and many are. I can see where a bunch of people that served and are into old military vehicles would be cut from an entirely different cloth. Maybe I need an old 5 ton truck to drive in Dallas traffic. I�d worry about inattentive drivers a lot less.

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Actually, the people here aren't as bad as they used to be. I guess a lot of them have learned that I'm not going to take their crap, so they just let it go. I have looked at the sponsorship of forums and etc differently in the past, than I do now. Lots of what goes on behind the scenes with these social networking platforms is about buddy deals, and who you kiss up to. That's especially true on the facebook groups associated with 996s and etc. Some jackass starts a group, then he gets on some moderation power trip, and feels like he is important. Its the typical volunteerism mindset where the person doesn't have a single leadership bone in their body, yet they volunteer for something, and start acting like freaking Napoleon. I don't play that, and I don't kiss people's asses. Because of the way I do things, we don't get magazine press, and features, but I don't give a damn. I'd rather be a real person, and earn my position, rather than being everybody's buddy with a bunch of faux relationships. Anyway, owning the military vehicles is much different, and its an experience that I appreciate more than any other vehicle group I have been a part of. There's never an attitude, and people are always caring about the people that the vehicles represent. Over half my current vehicles won't break 55 MPH, and that's ok. That said, my team still appreciate the challenges that we accept through working with the problems that the M9X engine, and its successors present to us on a daily basis. These challenges are what keep us motivated to develop, and create, and share things in videos. It has never been about the vehicles, it has always been about solving problems, and mostly doing the things that the factory never intended to be done. That's why we'll keep doing what we've always done, the way that we've always done it. We won't win any popularity contests, and that's ok by me.

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It's definately a society thing. Unfortunately at this point, I don't see it getting much better. Probably only worse...

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Hi Jake I've been meaning to tell you, a couple years ago I worked next door to Gene Berg's shop in Orange CA. One day I went over there to see what kind of parts they had. They had alot more pictures than parts, at some point I mentioned Air cooled technology & the conversation soon turned to bad mouthing you by name.

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There are some here that you have won over. They are the ones who appreciate honesty, responsibility, no B.S., experience and knowledge.

FINAL UPDATE Firstly a major thank you to everyone who has helped and supported me on this thread. You all have been amazing! Let me begin by a brief preface.. In Oregon, there is absolutely no lemon law for used vehicles. This is a major problem in this state. It is absolutely unnerving knowing that because of the lack of protections to purchasers of used vehicles, there is an extremely high rate of auto sales fraud here. Keeping that in mind, after speaking to 3 attorneys in the past month, and mentioning the OUTPA someone posted a link to here, all three of them told me that my case was weak, at best. They assured me that although they would be willing to go to court with my case, I would get no compensation for my legal fees, which were far in excess of the cost of the vehicle and / or the repair. Because of this, I avoided the legal process entirely. Luckily for me, the dealer that I purchased the car from remained in contact with me throughout the entire process, when at any point he could have told me to go kick rocks and leave me on my own. I also know that the dealer never changed nor checked the oil in the vehicle (evident from the oil sticker in the top left of the window being from the previous owner, before the dealer), so during the short period he owned the car he was unaware of the problem existing. He was as shocked as me to find out. Though I was extremely dissapointed with the dealer for not inspecting the car thoroughly, it appears that he was a victim here as well. In fact, when I contacted the mechanic that last changed the oil (oil sticker on the top left) they said they performed a coolant flush and oil change for the previous owner, coincidentally before it was sold. I believe that the previous owner performed what is called a 'Max Attack' (from CarMax scenario) to quickly hide the issue and cash out as quickly as possible. After speaking with Jake Raby over phone, he had brought this up as a possible scenario. Now after learning this information from that mechanic, I believe Jake was spot on. The dealer agreed to share the cost strictly for the cylinder head repair including the disassembly /reassembly of the engine (but not including preventative component swapping such as IMS bearing, AOS, coolant tank, water pump etc.). Although I am still losing money in this situation, it is the best outcome possible for me. As Bill said above, I will be shipping the car to 9xx Motors. I intend on having the IMS bearing replaced with the IMS solution. Both Jake Raby (Flat 6) and Jason (9xx) said that it isn't likely a cylinder bore issue since this is an '01 model, so I'm hoping that isn't the case (I haven't had any of the symptoms listed on flat 6 regarding cylinder bore) but I'm not ruling it out. ​​​​​​I love this car, it is very fun and once it is fixed it will be a nice addition besides my Panamera! But all this being said, this has been quite the ordeal and the outcome would have been much better had I simply had a pre purchase inspection done. LET MY EXPERIENCE BE ADDED TO THE LIST OF REASONS FOR WHY YOU SHOULD ALWAYS GET A PPI. As this being my first ever experience purchasing a car (I am fairly young), I will always, always get a PPI from now on.

I don't think you could have asked for much more, the other preventative maintenance would have fallen on you anyway. I am glad this ended up having somewhat of a positive outcome.

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Unfortunately, scenario that you have to go through all of this trouble - waste of time and money. This is a lesson to all prospective buyers of Porsche cars - get the PPI and a useful buyer's guide to help double check items that the shop may overlook. Good luck, OP. Let us know how it worked out once you get everything sorted.

Yep, its almost like I deal with people getting scammed every week, or so. The conversations start "I just bought this car, and....." I feel very confident that you were taken advantage of, and so was the dealer. I put these puzzles together all the time, because we keep failure logs, and can easily connect vehicles, and owners when this happens. If one of these engine fails, we get the call, no matter where in the World it may be. Its really easy to do, based on the ticketing system, and what people tell us, then they disappear.. A few weeks later the same story pops up from the same city, and then I connect the dots. The record was someone selling the car, then a new buyer getting the car only to find out he had been ripped off by the prior owner.. Then the new buyer turns around and sends the car back to CarMax (by selling it to them) only to be recycled all over again, ripping off a 3rd owner. The 3rd owner was the only guy that did the right thing. That one car cost people more than 60K in losses. Dreeams are becoming nightmares. Get a freaking invasive PPI, else you are just a victim waiting to be pounced on. Don't even consider buying one of these cars without an invasive PPI.. NEVER trust the seller, or the seller's shop to do the PPI. Take it to an unknown 3rd party, and don't even tell them what dealer is selling the car- they may be friends. You name it, I have seen it.

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Good Luck with everything and sorry you're having to deal with all of this. I too got a little bit excited and bought one recently without a PPI. I may be in the same boat as you before too long...

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What's really the point of this post? Fuel to the fire? This reminds me of the instigators in middle school: byprodiver - "Hey Jake ol' buddy ol' pal, see that guy over there? Yea, ol' Gene Berg. He called you a doo doo head? yea, you know what a 'doo doo head' is, don't cha?" walks over to Gene byprodiver - "Hey Gene, Jake said he'd kick your pansy-*** to kingdom come. Why? All because you look like a retarded monkey. I wouldn't take that, Gene! Don't wuss out Gene!" Gene walks over to Jake... Gene - "I hear you want to kick my ***!" Jake - (silence) then... Pop Pop Bam baam... Pop! #$*%&#*%&%*#*%&#*%&#*%*%&$

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Nothing like throwing gasoline on a fire! Dash, thanks for the update and good luck with 9xx, Jason will take good care of you.

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That's the way it's supposed to be. They aren't supposed to like me, and that's what makes me tick. Hate and discontent follows success, and domination. They are still stuck in the 70s.. They are insignificant, and have been for almost 3 decades now. Nothing more.

totally on point.. ^^^^ There are several manufacturers living off the name they got in their glory days,, but haven't done anything significantly different/new/important in years. You see the same thing in Sprint Car racing..

Glad to hear that Dashton has found an answer to his problem that works for him. I agree with Jake that the Porsche world is a different place than it was. My first Porsche was bought with no PPI and immediately blew up (914 2.0). I bought additional cars without PPIs, and got lucky. I bought my SC, and had a great shop do a PPI, and they told me I had a good car. 100k miles later, I knew they were right. I decided to get a an ‘88 or ‘89 944 Turbo. Found one in the Midwest with only 60k miles in black. He said since it had snowed, he’d trailer it to the dealer for the PPI. Once at the Porsche dealership (who still did PPIs then) they checked the car, and found some significant compression issues, and a non- functioning odometer. No wonder the miles were low, and he’d trailered the car to the PPI. I passed, and it was the best $500.00 I spent to save thousands...the next ‘89 944 turbo was presented on line in TX as a nice 66k miles car, with the photos showing body protection film at the flares looking cracked and gator’ed... The PPI showed 110-115 psi on the compression check with a 15% leakdown... the photos they sent showed the paint was cratered over every 2” square of paint on the fenders, hood and roof. The shop owner said he’d never seen one that bad, except for old race cars... I walked from that one too. Another $500.00 well spent to save thousands...My current car passed its PPI with flying colors, and a great DME report. Updated by a Raby referred mechanic, I am enjoying a great 911. Did I waste the $1000.00 I spent on two PPIs on cars I didn’t buy? Nope. It left room in the garage for the RIGHT car. This has taught me that PPIs are ALWAYS worth the money- just make sure they are performed by well respected and experienced mechanics.

Hey guys, sorry for the extremely late update. The car is nearly ready at this point and I'm surprised and happy it still going as scheduled with the virus situation. Unfortunately, my hopes were dashed when the issue turned out to be both a crack in the cylinder head and bore scoring. Seems some major heat damage occurred in the engine, most likely because the passenger side radiator fan was not functioning whatsoever... Here are some images of the gore: Scored pistons Crack in cylinder head Scored cylinders Since then, the cylinders have been bored and lined to 3.8L, the crack in the cylinder head has been fixed, IMS replaced and the list goes on and on and on... But yes, as I mentioned before the whole overheating was most likely caused by the completely non-functioning radiator. There are also some more minor issues that I already knew about prior to even purchasing that they are also fixing while they have it, I figured I might as well just get everything done. I am very eager and excited to get my car back though! Only worried about this issue possibly occurring again so I am curious, what preventative maintenance do you all recommend (and how frequently) on these cars? I'm looking at other posts and I'm seeing varying opinions and not much referencing the radiators... I was planning on getting a hard top, a new sound system (keeping as close to the stock form factor as possible), and some decals but for now that I just dropped all this cash on the repair I am going to be taking a break on spending on this car for a while now at least for non-necessities. I spoke with another member of my local PCA club that has an '04 996 and he is about at the 200K mile mark and hasn't ever had any major issues, incredible! He said he will be swapping out his IMS bearing anyways, just to be safe. Once again thank you all for everything!

Maybe check or replace all radiator fans and stators?? This could have been the initial problem and maybe add a centre radiator for extra insurance from this happening again?

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Wow! Lots of questions, but first - I bet you can't wait to get it back, & good luck with it! 1) What type of sleeve's were used? If they used "Nickies" with proper pistons and rings, the chances of bore scoring are low... 2) Any other head work besides welding/pressure test? Any porting? New Valves? Sizes? Valve seats & guides? Who did the head work? 3) Other work - I know you said the list goes on and on, but... curiosity! Pistons? Con rods? Crank shaft? etc... 4) Ball Park Cost? As for preventative maintenance - PROPER BREAK IN & OIL CHANGES ! I'm sure the engine builder is going to have some pretty strong thoughts/advice on this... At least I would hope so... Once again, good luck and I hope it's everything you hoped it would be