Porsche dealer ...wow

I have a friend in Chicago beginning his search for a 996. I have passed along wisdom provided by this forum, made him aware of bore scoring, and told him that a PPI with invasive bore scoping is mandatory. He is extremely risk adverse and will not blindly buy a car. He followed up on an ad in Panorama magazine for a car in South Florida and then called a local Porsche dealership to inquire about doing a PPI should he choose to proceed. This is what they said: $580 for PPI plus $750 for bore scoring inspection but �bore scoring is not common on the 996�. He said he can look at the ims through a porthole and tell if it has been replaced.

Labor $190 an hour, and to really see the bore scoring you need to see it from the bottom of the cylinder......Look for oil consumption, smoke in exhaust, and carbon/oil build-up on left hand exhaust tip

Didn't you say in the Hoovie thread you didn't really get why he went on a rant about the dealership? Well, here you go lol. I've bought and sold so many cars and I refuse to go to dealerships unless its a recall and I don't have a choice.

Just a counterpoint, if your friend is truly "extremely risk adverse" then a 996 (or frankly just about any out of warranty Porsche) might not be a good fit. One can do the absolute best due diligence (PPI, Bore Scope, Oil analysis, full service history, etc) and at the end of the day it is still a 15-20 year old German car. Things will break, fail or need service, it's just the nature of ownership (and something many of us somewhat perversely enjoy...). One can radically improve their odds via the above but if the thought of a repair which might be eye watering is intolerable then one might look to another car or model. We all make this decision at some point. For example, for me Porsche's generally don't scare me but I avoid other exotic marques or models as the risk/reward ratio skews too heavily towards risk for my personal comfort level. As to the PPI, while that is expensive it is a fairly involved process to do both right. I would however suggest a Porsche independent vs. a dealer for something as old as a 996.

Quotes source post: 16581558

Totally agree with bold above. There are tons of Florida folks here that could recommend a shop or maybe even do a Rennfax look over of the car for your friend.

Quotes source post: 16581446

Like a certain member here says dealers are all about "Rainbows and Unicorns" and I've never heard of this porthole thing to see the IMSB before.

He is very risk adverse and we have had extended discussions about risks of 996 ownership. He thought about going for a 996 Turbo instead (he is not really budget limited) and avoiding the non-mezger issues, and his wife wants him to buy something newer with an existing CPO since she expects him to only own it for 3 years. He doesn�t think Chicago area roads will allow him to enjoy a turbo and doesnt want to pay up for a newer 911 and suffer significant depreciation when he disposes off it. Will end up with a 996 nb cab 6 speed and do his homework. If it fails he will sell as roller and move on.

I try not to get involved in these threads as everyone has their own opinions and it gets argumentative easily. However, in my opinion the dealers are not always the best place to get a PPI on any older car. In most cases the dealers don't have experience with higher mileage vehicles. Dealers will typically see the known issues with newer vehicles while under warranty or just out of warranty. When these cars were newer and seen consistently in the dealer bays they may not have seen the "normal" modes of failure we see today. I believe Jake pointed out once before the IMS bearing failures were the norm that they saw and now more of his business is from bore scoring. Dealers are also higher labor rates. The dealer itself and the dealer mechanic know the likely hood of a 996 owner dropping a ton of cash and building a relationship with them is little to none so they wont typically spend that "extra" time looking for all the issues. A smaller, more family friendly indy is more interested in taking care of the client and building a relationship so they will make the money over time. In regards to Hoovies youtube video. I watch most of his videos. I can appreciate his videos for what they are. But as a tech i can completely understand why a dealer tech would "pencil whip" the inspection. It sucks to say it this way, but as a tech who gets paid flat rate only i understand it all. Using simple math, most really good techs will make around $30.00 an hour (flat rate! no clock). So a PPI that may only pay 1 hour, i would make $30.00. Would i rather spend my time doing that job knowing the customer most likely will get nothing done (like Hoovie) or spend my time working on a job where i can find and up-sell the worn out brakes, suspension or deferred maintenance? The sad part is in most cases the customer is the one who gets hurt in the deal. I hate when several times a year we offer "free brake inspections or a/c checks". Guess how may DIY guys come in for the free check and then take it home. Can you guess how much money i made during that free inspection? I'll give you a hint - nada! In order for a good flat rate tech to make money you have to know how to do a great job and manipulate the system at the same time. God knows the dealership or shop we work at are going to try to keep as much money as they can and pay us a little as they can. Don't even get me started on warranty pay.

Quotes source post: 16581446

Tell him to RUN to a different shop for a PPI - the price isn't the problem. Whoever he spoke to either A) Doesn't know what he's talking about or B) Is full of **** or C) Both...

I agree with nathan1. If you can't afford to replace the entire engine(or sell the car as a roller) in case of engine failure, then a 16-21 year old Porsche 996 might not be a good choice. I really hope I don't have to spend $20K+ to replace my engine, but at least I could do it if necessary. That's also one reason why I don't own many other cars. (996 Turbo, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc) Either they would require having someone else do a majority of the repair work, rebuilt engines cost too much, or they won't easily fit in my available parking space.

So 1,200 to look at a car that might fail. That is crazy. Would be like 5% of the cost of a car and to do this over and over.

I lost interest when the OP said his friend 1) isn't short of money and 2) worries about depreciation. If true, he's a drama queen who may not deserve the attention of the knowlegdeable here.

I hate when several times a year we offer "free brake inspections or a/c checks". Guess how may DIY guys come in for the free check and then take it home. Can you guess how much money i made during that free inspection? I'll give you a hint - nada! In order for a good flat rate tech to make money you have to know how to do a great job and manipulate the system at the same time. God knows the dealership or shop we work at are going to try to keep as much money as they can and pay us a little as they can. Don't even get me started on warranty pay. I think it's probably just a numbers game and the dealers know this is the case, but just like any other business, it's a marketing cost that has the potential to bring in new business. Just think, while the owner is waiting for his free inspection, he is roaming the showroom floor, looking at new cars, etc...

Quotes source post: 16581708

As also someone who has managed mechanic shops as well i completely understand all sides of the game. Marketing works. Thats why at the end of the week i just smile with my awesome paychecks (before covid 19). Its all a game. Some jobs i win as a tech. Some jobs i lose. Same game gets played for the customer and the owner of the company. Only part that really sucks it knowing that its the game. Everything is priced by a book (for the most part). Almost every shop in the nation abides by the books. But god i hate the jobs where i lose a tech and just have to smile. But then you get that customer who just doesn't understand why a water pump pays way more than the time it takes the tech to do it. As the customer, they want a discount because they think its unfair. But god knows when the job goes bad or its just wrong in the book, are you now willing to pay more??? of course not.

The "low" prices of the 996 are attracting all kinds of people, even the risk averse. lol I don't get his game plan. Spending ~$1200 on an inspection that, at the end of the day, really doesn't mean anything, The engine can fail for a number of other reasons right after he pays for the inspection. Then considering traveling out-of-state to buy a car, etc. Why not just buy a roller and have the engine rebuilt properly? It won't be that much more after all the nickel and dime issues are tallied up for a running 996.

I replaced a cat on a friend's Toyota Sienna in an hour,which was supposed to be an 8 hour job. This was while the friend was waiting and watching. He was amazed that he would have to spend 8 times the amount for labor for the job. I just let him know that exhaust R&R can go south VERY quickly and take a LOT longer. When we did his sparkplugs it took about an hour longer than book. He started to realize that you win sometimes and lose sometimes with book time. Since I started giving away my labor for the Car Ministry, I use book time to let me know how difficult a job might be and to give the "customer" a time estimate. Then I try to beat the booktime if possible. If you're charging, don't let the customer watch and wait. Ha! My last "customer" vehicle in early COVID-19 lockdown was a Ford Escape front seal (beat book time) and radiator.(met book time) Since then I've only worked on my 996. I'm not sure what book time is on a 996.2 AOS R&R, but I think I would have lost...but now that I've done one I bet I'm a lot closer to booktime.

I never intended this thread to get off track. Though the cost of the PPI is clearly higher than a qualified indy would charge, wildbilly32 caught the real point of my post. Bore scoring not affecting 996s and porthole to see the IMSB i thought would generate some interesting comments. I already told my friend to run away from such a PPI, as dporto seconded. As for someone questioning my friend being both able to afford a more expensive 911 yet also being worried about depreciation, thus making him a drama queen, such comments are uncalled for and not constructive. Not all people of means suddenly lose common sense regarding the value of a dollar. I have no hard feelings against Porsche dealerships, they are free to charge whatever they want, and to also price themselves out of the market in some cases.

Tell him to look for a "Roller" and have Jake build him a motor, that's the best way to get a 996!

Quotes source post: 16581620

Oh I can think of numerous places where a turbro would be fun in Chicago...almost any entrance to !-294, I-55, I-355. LSD...etc. If he wants some twisties head out to the Fox river valley and head north. Plus it would eliminate most of the engine fears.

He�s on the car rebound, just sold his red GTO pre-virus and now wants a red cab 6 speed. Nothing fancy, won�t be tracking it. I tried convincing him Chicago driving might be best for a 4s coupe but he wants what he wants. He actually considered a 996 turbo that had a engine rebuild by a reputable shop in midwest, but the new engine went in 6 years ago and the car has only been driven 600 miles since. Too many questions. Back to basic 996.

Quotes source post: 16581996

Maybe he wants something to drive, this year? In that case, he needs to buy two. One for now and one for later...

Tell him to reconsider a turbo. It shouldn’t ride any harsher than a NA car and the Mezger engine is very robust.

Quotes source post: 16582048

I personally was pushing him towards a turbo, both for the more robust engine and value retention. I find it hard to advise someone who is making a short term purchase. I warned him that 911s are addicting and he might never sell it.

Yup. ^^^^+1 to that Optionman1. Knowing what I now know, and not lacking $50 grand or so, Mezger turbo all the way. They drive great and can still be taken care of at home for everything a nb 996 can.

I just sent him a message to join this thread and get involved in the discussion. Hopefully he will later today. I hope he buys a turbo because I�ve never driven one!!!

Quotes source post: 16582105

+ for friend + for you Win-Win!

As someone who just went through purchasing a 996, I got the impression that even a lot of the good indy shops don't take the IMS & bore scoring all that seriously. I know my sample rate is low but I talked to 3 or 4 indys about bore scoring & the IMS. Don Jackson in Phoenix said both problems were overblown, another Porsche shop in Riverside (OK, not sure how good this one is) said he'd only seen one instance of bore scoring on a 996 and the guy who runs Black Forest in San Diego (where I got the PPI for the car I bought) was not concerned about bore scoring in my car. He has a 240K mile 996 as a DD. The 1999 I bought had the LN replacement dual row installed so the IMSB wasn't a concern for this car & we didn't talk about the IMSB at length. Since the car I was buying had spent its whole life in warmer climates & had the IMSB replaced, I did not have the pan dropped or bore scope done.Had it been a cold weather car and/or never had the IMSB replaced I might have had it done. I just would have found it tough to insist on something like that if the mechanic didn't think it was necessary. But yeah. Dealers...

This is the current front runner:

" I know my sample rate is low but I talked to 3 or 4 indys about bore scoring & the IMS. Don Jackson in Phoenix said both problems were overblown, another Porsche shop in Riverside (OK, not sure how good this one is) said he'd only seen one instance of bore scoring on a 996 and the guy who runs Black Forest in San Diego (where I got the PPI for the car I bought) was not concerned about bore scoring in my car." ^^^ All that means is that he doesn't work on a lot of M96 engines... Did he he scope your engine? Why wasn't "he concerned" ? No noise? - that would be a fair reason

Quotes source post: 16581558

This advice belongs in every "want to buy" thread.

Quotes source posts: 16581558, 16582922

I second this and wish I had this advice when buying my Targa a year and a half ago. Nearly every buyer's guide I saw on the 996 said two things: Fix the IMS bearing for roughly $2,500 and make sure it has maintenance records. Only after purchase and digging did I really learn the IMS bearing is much more expensive, and the engine has many failure points. I had two PPIs done on the car by two different Porsche specialists in two different states (where I bought it, and when I got it home after). Neither at the time mentioned bore scoring or offered/suggested scoping or compression testing. It was just a standard look over of the car plus a pitch on replacing the IMS bearing. I'm convinced that after talking to other owners, and potential owners, that the image a lot of people have of the 996 is a stout, reliable, car that's only issue is the IMS, and that fixing is cheap and makes the car bullet proof. I think they look at it as how Porsche builds cars today, not as they did 20 years ago when they were on the brink of financial disaster.

Quotes source post: 16582922

I whole heartily agree. PPI, UOA, bore scope, etc is no guarantee of long and uneventful ownership by any means. Put together with service records and a �buy the owner, not the car� evaluation, the goal is to reduce the risk, not eliminate it.

Thanks to Optionman1 for posting here and getting me on Rennlist. Yes, I am the friend looking for a 996. Great community. I really appreciate all the comments. I'll try and address some of the questions/comments. Having sold a 1968 GTO, I'm looking for a fun car, but something a bit less problematic (the GTO was a solid driver and always maintained, but you never knew when it was going to decide not to run). Having read over the forums and talking with Optionman1, I knew to ask about bore scoring on the 996, but when the repairman called it "bore sourcing", the conversation went down hill from there. I agree with nathan1 that a 20 year old German car is not without problems, but I'm just trying to minimize them by getting a proper inspection done. As for me being risk averse, I'd rather buy the nicer $25k 996 than beat up "supposed deal" $15k version needing $25k in work. If anyone is looking to sell a 996 cab with manual trans, please let me know what you have. I am a serious buyer.

Quotes source post: 16582288

I hope you know the LN replacement needs to be replaced again unless it's the "Solution"!

Quotes source post: 16583609

I do. I've heard both 50K and 75K miles. Since the bearing was replaced less than 10K miles ago by the PO and I plan on driving the car 5-8K miles per year I'm not worried about it right now. The shop owner's bearing failed at around 200K miles BTW.

Quotes source post: 16582689

I don't think that's a fair assumption to make. I live in a major metropolitan area and there are a lot of Porsche's (M96 and otherwise) around. My theory is that it's the warmer climate. I watched all of Jake's bore scoring videos and one thing he mentions is that it seems like a lot of the bore scoring comes from colder climates. Most likely because people warm up their cars (and maybe because the oil gets thicker)? None of the indys I talked to here in the southwest were concerned with bore scoring. One car I was thinking of buying had spent about 8 years in Chicago. I was more worried about it with that one. The car I ended up buying spent its life in southern California. The guy that did my PPI has been working on Porsches at least since the 996 was new and probably longer. There were 7 or 8 bays in the shop, all of them filled with all sorts of 911s, Some of them being set up for racing. And he had a 1999 996 as a daily driver with over 200K miles on it. This was not the type of place that fixes rich housewives' Cayennes (umm, not that I would say no to a new cayenne either). So, I trusted his opinion. When you bought yours, was it borescoped from the oil pan? Was the mechanic that did the PPI concerned about it?

Quotes source post: 16583409

Welcome! Do your due diligence before purchasing. The 996 is a fun toy. Not a perfect car but fun all the same. Good luck with your journey. Keep us apprised of your progress.

" When you bought yours, was it borescoped from the oil pan? Was the mechanic that did the PPI concerned about it?" What does my car have to do with a car you're looking at? I could tell you anything I like, and you'll believe it? I get the feeling people come here to some sort of twisted reassurance that what they are doing is right, or what they are being told is true. All the stories and background noise doesn't matter. All you're getting here is advice - no warranty's or guarantee's - take it or leave it. The advice that say's "do a PPI, and do an invasive one if at all possible" is good, and it comes mostly from people who have experienced problems that they might have avoided had they taken advice (or even looked for it). Ultimately you're going to do whatever you want anyway. Too many times when buying these cars (that we've all pined for since we were kids) emotion drives our decisions. I don't know what your conversation with the mechanic actually went like, but you made it sound like he was dismissive toward bore scoring - if this was the case, it's my opinion that he's not "tuned in" to the M96 & M97 engines. If he were, at the very least he would have said something to the effect of "yes bore scoring can be an issue with these engines, and although it's not something that it's showing symptoms of now it would be a good idea to scope it"... Good Luck

Quotes source post: 16584144

"All we are getting here is advice." My point exactly. And you're right. Emotions do drive a lot of these decisions and people stupidly ignore red flags or don't get a PPI. But the other side of this coin is that reality affects these decisions too. And the reality is that an invasive PPI is not always practical. The mechanic may not think it's necessary and the seller may not be comfortable about having it done. It's a long difficult procedure for a mechanic to bore scope from the oil pan & it can be hard to insist the mechanic do it when the mechanic thinks it isn't necessary & the seller isn't all that happy about it either. In my case, I had 3 experienced Porsche mechanics tell me that bore scoring wasn't enough of a worry. I know it can be but my guess is that it's due to the warm weather here. You just don't see it as often. I get the feeling a lot of people say that an invasive borescope is absolutely necessary and you shouldn't buy the car without one, yet they never had it done themselves. As a matter of fact, in doing my research I can't remember finding one example of a person doing a borescope from the oil pan as part of a PPI. And I did a lot of searching.

Quotes source post: 16585043

Maybe it's just anecdotal but I've been a member here for 1.5 years and total close to 2 years with lurking and it seems like bore scoring has become way more common of a topic in my time here. Why that is or if I am totally wrong I don't know lol. Just seems like its been discussed way more recently than it has in the past.

Quotes source post: 16585084

I'm pretty new to the forum and Porsches in general so for me it was a big topic right off the bat. Communities have lives of their own and certain things fall in and out of discussion for who knows what reason. I think Jake Raby has done a lot of good research and has found out a lot more about it. That might be part of the reason. The cars are packing on the miles so that might be another reason. As someone in the market for a 996 and trying to be as educated and diligent as possible, the subject of invasive borescopes was frustrating. I felt like the Internet community was saying one thing while mechanics were saying another. People were saying you need to do it while I couldn't find evidence of people actually having it done. I got more and more uncomfortable with insisting on one.

If i'm paying for it i don't know why the mechanic doing the PPI would try to talk me out of a requested bore scope. I fully understand the seller not agreeing, as is their right, but the thoroughness of the PPI should be totally up to the buyer, not the shop performing it.

Quotes source post: 16584144

When I bought mine, I did my own on-site PPI, complete with Durametric testing. But I didn't do a borescope, even though I owned one. I didn't feel it was necessary at the time. I'm not certain the seller would have liked me taking his car home for a day+ to borescope it. Also I didn't do a traditional compression test. I did a relative compression test using an inductive current clamp on my portable scope. I included traditional compression tests and borescoped from the top when I did PPIs for customers. If I were buying a 996 now I doubt I would borescope it. I'd just check everything with the Durmetric, checked suspension/steering, checked oil/coolant/PS/Brake fluid, measured pad wear, tire wear, checked for leaks, do a relative compression test, test the AOS, listen for slight piston slap with a stethoscope, check the Carfax, and then decide if I want to make an offer. The checks above will rule out most risks.

Thus the reason I bought one with a blown motor!

Thus the reason I bought one with a recently rebuilt motor (nickies, all new tensioners, chains, heads done, etc) and it had a LN IMS Solution already installed.

Quotes source post: 16585449

Not a bad way to go! In 1998 I bought a 1986 Supra with a rebuilt motor. The owner was a mechanic at the local Toyota dealership and he rebuilt it himself. I drove it for about 3 1/2 years and maybe 40K miles and it blew a head gasket. The Supras had a problem with head gaskets. At the time I didn't want to spend the $1K it would have cost to get it fixed so I sold it as a roller. That was a lot of $$ to me at the time and I'd just spent several hundred on non engine repairs. I decided to cut my losses. I miss that car (but my 996 is more fun!) The 996 I bought has an LN IMSB installed and I didn't feel it was necessary to check for bore scoring (neither did the mechanic). Hopefully the engine gods will smile on me this time and I won't have that problem. I miss you Supra, wherever you are!

Here's another data point. I manage a German specialty shop in Raleigh N.C. (have been affiliated with them for close to 20 years in different capacities). I have personally seen 2 spun rod bearings, one broken timing chain. When I was looking for a roller, I was able to find a D-chunk. I have never seen, nor ever gotten a call about a failed IMS or bore scoring. We do get people requesting all sorts of PPI and IMS replacements and such. We have done them for people I have not been able to talk out of those services. I have also seen a broken lifter. The D-chunk was the only catastrophic failure, but that ought to not count as I searched a broken car and had to travel out of state to find it (Mass). The broken timing chain actually did not result in bent valves, owner got pretty lucky. I used to daily drive 996s (of all flavors), I don't anymore, but still don't hesitate to take 300+ mile trips in mine

@octane7149 if you have interest I have an 04 lapis blue C4S Cab that I'm thinking of selling. I'm the original owner and it's a south florida vehicle with 53k miles, 6 speed. Car is all original. Thanks

@Phiphe yes. I am interested. I�m new to this forum. Can you send me a private message or is there another way to connect?

Quotes source post: 16586938

I don't think you can PM until your post count is higher. I'll be happy to be a conduit Phiphe, octane1749 is my friend.

Quotes source post: 16586973

optionman, I'll send u my email and cell, thnx

My mechanic told me to stay off the forums just for all this above. I can't, I enjoy all this too much in a sick, warped way. I have to agree with TexSquirrel on this one regarding his PPI though I would go a step further and have a indie look at it for an hour after my review since my knowledge and experience is limited. Paying 1k for a $20k car just seems wrong to me. Seeing all the high mileage cars on here, I am starting to think these are tougher than we are led to believe. For the guys that do have problems, god knows how they run their cars. Are they running in the sub zero winters, do they let the car idle at startup, do they change the oil 3k or 6 months, are they racing mustangs at stop lights?

Quotes source post: 16590028

Keep in mind TexSquirrel is/was an automobile mechanic and knows his stuff. Not everyone possesses his knowledge, skill and abilities. That is why so many here say PPI and invasive when in doubt. My previous Indi had 20+ years working on European cars(including Porsche and was an excellent mechanic. He could not understand why I switched over to the spin on oil filter as "many European cars use the same type of filter set-up." So experience is good depending on what you experience...To each his own.

I agree paying $1k for a PPI with bore scope on a $20k car doesn't make economic sense in the long run, but this forum has recently seen a few buyers suddenly find out they got stuck with a car with bore scoring issues. I bet in retrospect they wish they had spent $1k. It all comes down to one's risk tolerance and financial situation.

As I said, I would have an indie look at after. Not going to drop $120 when the car is ticking away or I can't get the oil cap off.

Quotes source post: 16586149

How many failed AOS's have you seen?

Quotes source post: 16590131

Was ...and continue to do work on vehicles for free for people who are struggling financially. Some vehicles I know inside and out and some I have little to no experience on. When I was looking for my 996, I contacted a local Indy that specializes in Porsches and had planned on them doing a PPI since I was unfamiliar with watercooled Porsches. I'd rebuilt aircooled Porsches and aircooled/watercooled VW engines in the 90s, but I had done minimal recent work on watercooled Porsches at the time. But then I spent many hours pouring over the 996 workshop manual, the Bentley Service Manual, Porsche 996 The Essential Companion, 101 Projects for your 996, and the forums and found out what I believed needed to be checked. I bought a Durametric Pro. (got "burned" by the Bavarian Technics enthusiast BMW version, so Pro only for me!) I had already planned on having the Indy install a new IMS bearing in whatever I found due to lack of spare time to work on my own vehicles. (That's one reason why my Feal coilovers were 6 month old before I got around to installing them) Then I found a 996.2 with The IMS Solution already installed. Check! That convinced me that the engine was in great shape when The IMS Solution was installed by FSI. (~3 years and 17 miles previous) That also helped me decide to jump on it because it was under priced, and all my checks looked good except for a control arm and a cracked windshield. Knowing what I know now, I know I could do an even more informed PPI for a 9x6 or 9x7. I've currently been reading everything I can find on the 986 (and Miatas) so I'll be ready to jump on any good deals. I have my own M96 that I've disassembled and reassembled MANY times so that it all is familiar. A picture in a book just doesn't do it for me. Research ALL you can before you buy any older toy...or get a PPI from someone who REALLY knows the vehicle. Even without you having a lot of hands-on experience on a vehicle, you can likely do a better job (if you do the research!) than a professional with no model specific knowledge and no real desire to do a PPI. IMHO, if there's not a local experienced Indy, who does PPIs, then learn all you can to do your own PPI. I've done PPIs before on lots of different vehicles. REALLY knowing the vehicle is important for a Porsche 996...not as much for a typical Honda Odyssey. But even on a "typical" Honda Odyssey, there are things(transmission!) that I know due to experience that many other technicians won't know unless they've happened to see them. They may not notice things during a test drive that I might. I did an free inspection about a year ago on a 1993 Toyota Camry with a 4 cylinder that the owners had owned since new. It was 26 years old with 32K miles. It had always been serviced at the dealer, but they needed some work that they couldn't afford. I now take care of it...for free. (they pay for parts) It's really fun to work on. I installed a Battery Tender ( https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ovid-19-a.html ) on it last year, since they drive 1 mile to/from the grocery store every Wednesday, and occasionally they take it 1/2 to the doctor. At that rate they will hit 100K in about 100 years. Ha!

Quotes source post: 16590028

The problem is that your $20k car is running on an engine that'll cost $25k to replace with a good one (yeah yeah, you can put a $6k used engine in it, & when that one blows up the bill is now $31k) ... Put that in your pipe and smoke it! $1k for a PPI doesn't sound so crazy now does it?...

Still not persuaded but just an opinion. Do whatever helps you sleep at night I guess. One thing for sure, if my motor implodes, I will not be posting on here. The �I told you so� would be to much. 😁

Quotes source post: 16590323

I have seen a fair # of failed AOS', but not as often as I see them on BMW/VW Audis of the same vintage. Window regulators are common too, but then I see a lot of failed or stretched timing chains and such on Mercedes VW/Audi as well. My perspective is, and has been, that these are quite reliable, relative to other cars I would want to drive.

Quotes source post: 16591715

I agree, you will see a larger number of failed AOS's on BMW and Audi due to a larger volume of cars, and they wont' hyrolock from a big "gulp" of oil like the flat 6 of the 996..and the reason a failed AOS on a 996 is a MUCH bigger deal.

I bet the OP can find an Indie that will do that work for a lot less than $1,000. When I was looking for a P-car I wanted a Cayman (hence my user name with 987 in it - side note - don't know how to change it). I found a 2006 Cayman local to me and brought it to the Indie that he used. I had the Indie drain the oil first. If any metal or plastic bits stop, and just change the oil and filter (my dime of course). If clean proceed to sump removal and bore scope the cylinders. If scoring on the first cylinder stop, put it all back together. That way I didn't have to shell out for a full PPI only to find out it had an impending catastrophic failure. In other words, metal in the oil, I don't care that it needs a control arm. Of course I asked the mechanic to make sure when he put the car on the lift and if he saw clear evidence of accident damage, then lower the car and we are done. The Indie estimated around $500 - $600 all in if he did the scope along with oil and filter change. Bottom line was the car had plastic bits in the filter and lots of metal particulate in the oil. I paid him the agreed price for the oil change, was out $120, and walked away. Of course that led me to my 02 996. I didn't really fit in the Cayman and probably would've wondered why I bought it in the first place. The only reason I didn't get my 02 scoped during the PPI was that it had a recent engine rebuild and I knew the engine builder (and talked to him prior to the purchase). As always, YMMV, Objects in mirror are closer than they appear, past performance is no guarantee of future results...

Looks like I may have to sell my 2003 C4 cab. Silver with grey interior. Being out of work for 6 weeks now has killed my business. It has 28k miles lots of nice carbon fiber interior. The solution installed 18 months ago. Looking for 25k. Dont really want to sell but I might have to.

Quotes source post: 16592619

if you have the patience to put it on bat I'm thinking it should bring 30.