2000 996 engine failure

A good friend of mine, Steve, recently bought a nice 2000 911 cab from an acquaintance of his. Steve lives in the Louisville Kentucky area. Unfortunately his car suffered a cracked head. Regrettably this is his first foray into the wonderful world of Porsche ownership, and he is floundering a bit. He needs some guidance on options. Steve is a RL member but was having some difficulty navigating the forum on his phone so I am starting a thread on his behalf. I�m attaching a bid he received with 3 different options. Thanks for any help you folks in the 996 forum can provide Steve. He loves his car and I�m hoping he can find a way to get it back on the road without breaking the bank!

This shop is terrible. Seek other options

Steve will chime in on the thread soon.

Mark, for that price I would want a GT3 engine swapped in my 996, a RPM technik carbon fiber ducktail and a complete paint refresh. Tell your buddy to call LN engineering. The have more engines variations than you will know what to do with. They have certified shops around the country that can figure out what he needs for less than half the price he is being quoted.

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I think you are having trouble comprehending the quote. It has three different options. Used engine $22k Replace the head $17k The third for a short block is confusing since that wouldn't address the head failure.

Yes that quote confused me at first also. One of Steve’s questions which I’m sure he’ll explore once he joins the thread is weather it’s worth keeping the car. My thought was maybe he should just cut his losses and buy a 996 TT cab. My guess is that model will appreciate enough in future to offset the loss from ditching this car. He really likes this car so if it’s a long term keeper, I see no problem putting the $ into it, in order to enjoy it for years to come.

Not to be a downer...but a buddy had the same issue on his 2000 cab a few years ago and went for a set of replacement heads. Guess what...he's now back in the same situation with cracked heads again. Long story short, without any history of prior repairs you can't be sure this won't happen again without deeper investigation. In my buddy's case, I suspect his car had experienced a water pump failure prior to his ownership and pieces of the impeller are now stuck in critical cooling passages restricting adequate flow. The only way to confirm would be a full disassembly/inspection. Yes, it's an expensive proposition, but cheap when compared to repeated failures. Other options would be a exchange/rebuilt engine from a known vendor or a Porsche short block with new heads. I would personally stay clear of a used engine unless the history is known. Now comes the big question...repair the car and continue using it or cut the losses and walk?

With only 52,000 miles on the car why not fix the cracked head , I see no reason to replace the engine unless there is more to the story .

I have core heads that r good but need refreshed from my 2000. Ill let them go pretty cheap. Hoffman is under $3k i think for a rehab. If the rest if the motor is good just either repair or replace the heads. I can imagine more then 40hr to swap heads and r&r motor. So at $125/ hr thats $5k. No need to split the trans off and do any of that other work unless a new imsb is needed. Maybe another $500 of misc. So $9-9500 should get him on the road again?

No question, I can't make heads or tails out of it. KY is a hop, skip and jump from Momence, IL. Just saying... Unless the owner has wrenching skills...

I am the owner of the 2000 911 that my good friend Mark started the thread for. Appreciate all of the responses so far. I am going to need a little time to digest. Thank you to everyone that has responded. Will post more later tonight.

$10,000 to $17,000 for a set of heads on a 23 year old 996 that prefers to eat ims bearings and scratch the cylinders at any time, especially after overheating. Run like hell.

If trying to be thrifty, three important questions need to be answered... 1. Is the intermix , oil in coolant only? 2. is the intermix , coolant in oil ony? 3. is the intermix , both oil in coolant and coolant in oil? With only 52k miles on the engine, if the answer to question #1 is YES, then no need for any new or replacement engine...just a head repair....( and some cam pads+ gaskets) In-fact I would buy this engine if #1 is YES and fix the head and put it in my own car...I did this exact thing to my late 99 SAlly 15 years ago and have put 90k very hard miles on it since...( 140k miles total ) I paid $2250 for the core engine with scenario #1 from a shop that did an engine replacement under Insurance. I would do the same thing again.. Hoffman would charge about $2500 to repair the crack and rebuild both heads...labor to R&R the engine and both heads should run about $3500..gasket set for top end about $250... So for a total of about $6250 you could repair back to before the head cracked/intermix. But this does not included any deferred maintenance that should have already been performed, or any winfalls from "while your in there" items to get ahead on maintenance.. If you did all the labor yourself, you could fix the damage in scenario #1 for less than $3k. and be right back to where you were before the "event" ..so nothing to sweat about ... You can easily spend another $10k on deferred maintenance or" while your in there's" maintenance to get ahead.. Of course like I said, this only pertains if question #1 is YES, if question #2 or #3 is YES, then a new or replacement engine will be needed..and the cost goes way up and there is nothing thrifty or frugal about that..

Check the LN engineering rebuilt engine prices, I think you'll see what everybody is pointing out. My local shop would charge 2500 to remove and replace the engine, stock clutch only don't bother with upgrades.. I cant figure out where they got the other 20+ thousand in that job.

So it sounds like this specific local shop may not be the right fit for me and my issue. anyone know of a trusted Indy shop in the louisville/Lexington/Cincinnati area they would trust to accurately diagnose the problem and offer a reasonably priced solution? I do love the car but have a hard time sinking another $20K into the vehicle.

This is a good place to start your search. Independent Porsche Repair | Repair Shops Specializing in Porsche | PCarShops Also join PCA fast and talk to local chapter members / president etc. They know where to go. DO NOT rush this process. Take your time, talk to everyone and then some. Your next move is the critical one.

Here you go. The website for the PCA Bluegrass Region. Think this covers Lexington. You will probably find reference to local Indys. https://bgs.pca.org/ You may also want to pay attention to the decision tree outlined by @Porschetech3 . He is a retired Porsche Tech.

Gonna call around today and see what I can find out. Thank you!!

Wow.. For way less than that you could have a 3.8L Stage II FSI/ LN engine with every option, and over 400HP with Certified Installation with a lot of money to spare. That said, at 52K this is likely a very simple repair. Contact the guys at Atlanta Speedwerks. They have leased out the installation/ repair facility at FSI and they are now performing these repairs, since FSI abandoned repair work with the new program. Jake has been working to get them fully Certified as a repair facility, as well as an installation facility, and their employees have attended all the Raby/ Callas hands on classes. Jake has been offering them pointers along the way, and I'd say that he's seen more intermixed 996s with cracked heads than anyone in North America. You have some good options available that would not require engine replacement, or a 64K expenditure.

Looks total intermixing throughout the engine. I got these pictures about 10 mins ago. Christian said he took a borescope through the engine and did not see any cracks.

FWIW, on my engine, the cracks were not visible with a bore scope, they are too fine and too close to the head. Until the heads were off you could not see and once you did it was time for Nickies..

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Way less than $22k? Do tell.

Technician used to have his own independent shop for several years that sent me the pictures. Sold his shop to a larger shop and has been working there for the last few months. His experience is that he sees more crack cylinders than heads. For what that�s worth. Again, I am a novice, and this is my first experience with any of this. I am thinking I am going to look into getting a second opinion. That would require having the vehicle shipped somewhere but I am happy to pay the transport charges, and a small fee for him Valuation before spending $20,000. Honest question for the group. If I am looking at making the vehicle drivable again and then selling it, but selling it knowing that the next person is not getting a lemon, how would y�all proceed? Not looking at powning this problem off on someone else. Wanna make the vehicle right but will probably look to sell it. Edit

I would think a real possibility may be selling it as is. Even getting it running the best you could hope for is maybe what you paid for it. If you got it for a really good price then maybe.

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what could I reasonably expect for a 2000 911 with 52K miles, 1 owner before me, garage kept, all service records and has only seen rain once in its existence? Interior is in great condition and very very minimal rust??

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If this was simply a cracked head, the repair should be significantly less, even if you have to factor in a new replacement head. That said, like Skip mentioned, if there is coolant in the crankcase (which there is now evidenced by the photos posted after our tech's reply), this is likely not going to be a cheap fix.

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I don't know what the current value is for an 02 cab, but good condition according the Hagerty is 24k. Assuming it's more than just a cracked head, the cheapest route will be a used engine, but that's still not going to be cheap not will guarantee you won't have another failure like this. A quick look on ebay and you'll find used engines with warranties from $8-10k, but you'll want to drop the sump and scope the bores on the used engine to make sure it's good before putting it in. Also, likely the used engine will need a slew of new parts beyond just an IMS bearing like a flywheel, clutch, aos, water pump, etc. By the time you add all this up, I'm positive that you're going to be in more than if you were just to sell the car as a roller, and if your plan is to sell the car, fixing it likely isn't the right choice. That's not to say the car isn't worth fixing. If you choose to keep the car, I wouldn't go the route of doing the used engine. You'll likely be in quite a bit more to have your existing engine rebuilt and upgraded. Many Rennlisters have been down this road and it is certainly worth spending the extra money, especially as you really don't know how long the used engine will last. Ultimately you have to ask yourself if you love the car enough or if it makes more financial sense to sell it as is.

So based on what Porschtech3 said thats a replacement motor, only you can decide if you want to replace the motor, i wouldn't put a used motor in my car, i wouldn't blame you if you sold it as is. 10k is what a roller goes for, but yours maybe more based on your description, a lot of this pricing is dependent on how desirable your car is, is it a cool color, does it have a nice interior what are the options like, sport seats? Limited slip Diff, MO30 suspension, manual or tiptronic, if the body is perfect maybe you can do better then $10k Good Luck.

My car is black on black. I am thinking if I can get $10K or maybe a bit more as a roller then that is what I will do. Interior is near mint. Definitely doesn�t look like a 23 year old car. Appreciate everyone�s input.

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Sorry to hear your story, just as you get excited about owning a unique car... Most commonly the 3.4 (what you have) cracks heads and the 3.6 (2002+ 996 Carreras) cracks cylinders. If you could find a friendly independent, the cracked head can be fixed significantly cheaper than any of the numbers you've been quoted. I used to run a shop, and would be happy to talk to you about what happens if you like, drop me a PM. The short version is that it's still not going to be cheap but $10k+ is not necessary either, and the best course of action may still be to sell the car for parts as is.

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The above is what I see. Assuming your problem is a cracked head, replacing one head is surely manageable. A brand new head from Porsche is $3500, some gaskets, fluids, and engine out labor will get you out of this for under $10K. A cracked cylinder means you are over $20K and maybe you don't want that.

can you/he drop the engine to investigate? It�s not terribly hard, even on jackstands. Remove your heads and send to Len Hoffman. My intermix was from a failed oil cooler but I went with a full 4.0 Nickies from LN and built it myself.

Fixing it and selling it would be a time and money waster. Sell it as a roller, and move on.

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Part of my curse is I love to watch Porsche auctions when time permits. I look at Manheim, BaT, eBay, local ads and FB marketplace in my region. Since you're dealing with a Mk1 2000 Cabriolet with intermix, I would think it would be a stretch to get $10,000 in it's current state. If this was a Coupe, then you could get that number all day long as a roller, but not a Cabriolet. My guess is about $7000 - $8,000 realistically. Do you have pictures of the car that you could post? Condition is everything and since it only has 52K miles, it may bring more if you have some really rare options. But so that you know I'm not blowing smoke here. This is one of many I've seen on FB marketplace. This car is listed as running and ready to go for $15,000. Yes, it has 111K miles, but that shouldn't be a bad thing. IMHO, it's the low miles garage queen cars that seem to always have serious issues like yours. Of course, a PPI would be necessary on this car, but you see what I mean? People are not going to pay a lot for a roller when there are many hitting the marketplace right now. You should see Manheim, it's crazy. The best deals right now are on the 986 and even the 987 Boxsters. I've seen bunches land on FB for under $10,000. Wow!

It's a damn shame this happened. Sorry for your headaches. But you buy a car for either transportation or fun. If you want a classic sports car and like the 996, get the engine rebuilt by someone that knows what they are doing and enjoy it for the next 20 years. The reality is that you will end up spending the same amount of money if not more for another classic sports car at the end of the day you, just the way the Law of Car Ownership works. Bottom line: whatever 20 year old car you buy, you will need to put alot of money into it. Nobody likes it unless they have an unlimited bank account, but its just the way it works. If you don't put money into, things will fail regardless of miles. Hang in there.

Again, really appreciate all of the information, advice and perspective on this situation. Been on RL less than a year and am very thankful for my friend, Mark, and the community here. I have basic wrench skills, but nothing where I could do this type of work myself. I do have a couple of friends that have the skills, but don�t know if they will have the desire and/or time to try to help me fix this. I put a couple of calls in yesterday to a 2 other independent shops to get some info. With everything I am being told, engine rebuild or replacement sounds like the only fix. Probably gonna clean it up, take lots of pictures and look to sell as a roller. if anyone is interested, please PM me and I am happy to share more info.

As an FYI I noted this year that every call and ticket I have answered about cracked heads/ intermix came from cabriolets. I ran this by Mr. Raby and his reply was "it took you long enough to figure that out, do I have to tell you everything?". Apparently the characteristics of cracked heads and cabriolets is not new.

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Expand on this if you can. Why?

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Wish I would have known this 6 months ago!! Would have saved me a few bucks.

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This targa owner sure hopes it is related to the roof or associated mechanisms, and not the different body shell...

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That doesn't make sense unless the Cab motors were built differently or at another location. Unless there are other mitigating circumstances, this sounds like anecdotal evidence which is usually not a good basis for diagnosis.

Would also like to understand the logic here. Porsche was trying to minimize costs of production at the time. Not sure how making or building a batch of motors for cabs specifically accomplishes that. Perhaps stupid coincidence that vast majority of cracked heads that FSI saw was from cabs and thus the conclusion, albeit a silly one IMHO.

Fyi, production number by 996 type. As you can see, there are alot of cabs. May be a statistical coincidence.

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You dropped a bomb like that and then ... walked away? As students of Statistics will say "correlation is not causation." What is the cause?

That settles it boys. God drives a coupe.

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And the statistically, motors with the least problems are in Dark Teal Green Metallic cars.

Just an update if anyone is interested. I sold the car as a roller for $10K to a local guy who owns 2 shops in Lexington. I still have the hard top in the leather/vinyl case and an extra set of tires on the factory rims if anyone is interested. PM me if so and I can send pictures. Appreciate everyone's advice concerning this situation. Gonna regroup and look to get back into the market maybe in 12-18 months. Steve

That's a tough one to take in, you'll feel better about it as time passes i would think.

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It would be more likely that the Cab has more flex or more/less thermal shielding in certain areas (assuming the engines are otherwise identical which I'm not sure about).

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I felt like I should have played TAPS as the guy who bought it loaded it up on the trailer and drove away!! :-)))

That's tough. Best of luck on the next search.

Is it because typically cab drivers don�t drive their cars hard enough or often enough to help mitigate some of these mechanical problems? The stereo type might be someone who takes their car out on a sunny weekend and just cruises about without ever reaching the upper limits of the rev counter. Just my 2c worth. ps: I own a 2001 996 cab.

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as someone else suggested here join PCA and go to the Saturday car meetings. Usually some independent mechanics go to the meetings, some of the meetings take place at PCA sponsor shops. Take your time. There are other alternatives, I was just browsing Facebook and I saw these two cars which seem like pretty good deals. You can always sell your car as a roller. If you look in your local chapter internet page you will see if they have get togethers and when. You don�t have to join to attend the meetings. Good luck and please let us know what you finally decide. A If the engine is good this is a great deal on a wide body. This one looks like well sorted, the original paint is vesuvio . It�s a convertible but it comes with the hard top. The hard top in my opinion is a must.

I have encouraged Steve to look at the 996 TT when he gets back in the game. As the only 911 TT generation (along with 997 gen) still available for under 6 figures, snagging one now makes a lot of sense. I think they’ve long since bottomed on depreciation and the only direction they are going value wise is up. I’ve owned a couple of them over the years and they are phenomenal cars. I’m a N/A guy personally, but that TT is such a great choice for a lot of people looking to get into a reliable Porsche for a relatively reasonable price.

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I was thinking about buying a Carrera S but still the catastrophe of bore scoring is there. So last April for my birthday i bought one. Having put 5,500 miles in it, the car is a blast to drive. I�m sitting at 525 hp but my next step is 650. Anyway I love looking at it from the rear, that is in my opinion the most fantastic and gorgeous porsche assssssss. Mine is an 03 triple black �the dark knight�, but as yourself I also love the natural aspirated car so I still have my early 99 after 12,500 miles in it, I decided the 99 is going to stay as it is showing a bit of age and patina, the turbo is going to be the beauty pageant Queen as the paint is super great in it. My advice to your friend, find an early 99 or get an 03 turbo if at all possible buy the car from a long term owner not some of these bat flippers, It took me a year to get my turbo but I bought from a guy that had the car for 14 years, I�m the third owner of the car. To top it off I finished paying it off and got my clear Texas blue title last Monday. As sexy a rear as it comes. I removed the spare tire to save weight. Now I�m going to detail the frunk. Wash it and yes we are going supersonic today.

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WOW! Beautiful car. Congrats.

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Please help me understand, I know I'm missing something... You say if question 1 is yes,,, that means oil in coolant only, its a cracked head. Ok, what I don't understand is how is a hairline cracked head, probably spraying coolant out into the valve cover area? how does this not drain down into the sump and mix with oil in the sump giving you coolant in the oil also...? or is this usually an external head coolant leak that sprays coolant outside of engine ? then how does oil get in the coolant..?

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The cracks that usually form in the 3.4 heads runs from the sharp edge of the spark plug hole to the sharp edge on the coolant freeze plug, or from the sharp edge on the spark plug hole to the sharp edge on the exhaust valve seat, and both of these cracks will go completely through the oil pressure galley that feeds the 24 lifters ... This whole area is covered by the lifter carrier that holds the 24 lifters.....but the hairline crack connects the oil passage to the coolant passage internally.. When the engine is running the oil pressure is 60psi-100psi and the coolant pressure is 0psi-15psi, so the oil can be pushed into the coolant system but very little if any coolant will be pushed into the oiling system... This is the best case scenario for cracked heads since very little if any coolant will get in the oiling system. If there is a significant amount of coolant that gets into the oil system for any length of time ( oil milk shake) it will kill the bottom end/bearings ...

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Thanks for explaining that, makes perfect sense....

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