Opinions on downshifting

Hello there, I guess it�s obvious but curious about downshifting and it�s wear and tear on clutch, gears, etc. Lots of people come to a stop light putting the car in neutral and using breaks, but I like downshifting in addition to breaks when necessary. This is normal street driving (not on a race course). Naturally I don�t come too fast into a stop light and need to downshift, but to me that�s part of why I have a stick! Thoughts?

Do it all the time and usually heal toe just for track practice.

To each their own. Our cars have very good brakes. I don't downshift when slowing for a stop light, but that is my choice. While sitting at a stop light it is recommended to put the car in neutral and release the clutch pedal.

Brakes .....heel and toe.........don't you just love Spellcheck that gets the words wrong all the time. Definitely always downshift, and do practice heel and toe as it will help you be proficient at the track. Coasting and using the brakes is an absolutely horrible habit to get into and it could get you into trouble if in a severe situation you try doing that instead of just what comes natural.

Well, when something breaks, it needs to heal...

Usually...I downshift for highway exits but not for red lights. Sometimes, on exits, I will skip down a couple gears, say go from 4 to 2. If it's smooth, which it usually is, I don't worry about it, if it's a bit of jerky, I think "Hmm...I might not get a 100K from this clutch." I've owned manuals primarily for over 30 years. Never seemed to experience excessive wear for brakes or clutches. The only issue i ever had was getting my wife to break her habit of short shifting, She is primarily a manual driver but grew up with conserving fuel in mind. I finally got her to drive at higher RPMs in the torque band. We both are big fans of Italian tuneups, even on German cars, LOL.

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What's a break? Huh...

Brakes are cheaper than transmissions.

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Thats wear u stap an hav a ress.

I am lazy and generally coast down until I need to clutch into neutral. I've gotten used to the heavier clutch in my car but it's still a bit of effort after a while.

Lets be kind says I, i find spellcheck randomly will change the spelling of my words from than to then and other little gems, i'm convinced to make me look like a nincompoop.. and if i miss type this is a good cover story..

If you match revs as you downshift the added clutch wear is negligible. If you let the revs fall during downshifting and let the clutch "pull" the engine rpm higher as you engage it in the lower gear, you will cause more clutch wear. If you understand and visualize the relative speeds of the flywheel and clutch disc during the shifting process, you will understand why this is. Rev matching doesn't necessarily require you to be heel-toeing, although that is a good skill and worth practicing. Personally, I heel-town downshift almost always because it's fun, good practice and may give you a slightly improved reaction time if you need to accelerate suddenly to prevent an accident. Although when I had a manual car as my DD in heavy traffic, I was definitely lazier about it.

If my car is moving, it is in the appropriate gear for the current speed.

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This is what my father taught me as well. It answers many, many questions. To the OP, do whatever you want, either way. I just recommend rev matching to maintain a long clutch life.

All great info thank you!

No need to heel and toe for normal street driving. But as a driver of a stick shift car, you should learn to 'double de-clutch' downshift. Google this technique. I was taught this as a boy, when driving a Fiat 850 spider, and later when driving old Mercedes Diesel farm trucks. Neither had Synchromesh. Simply rev matching won't do it, as when the clutch is depressed, you're simply reving the engine. You need to rev in neutral, with the clutch released, then depress the clutch and downshift. At least, that's how I was taught. Simple understanding of how a manual transaxle clutch and engine / crankshaft revolutions interact should make it clear why this is required. Heat is the destroyer of clutches, so avoid slippage. When you accelerate from a stop, get in the habit of fully releasing the clutch as soon as the car has any forward momentum at all. Don't ride the clutch, don't sit in gear with the clutch in at lights. And for God's sake, don't do YouTube launches, these cars are not designed for the drag strip. Unless you can afford repairs and parts, then by all means, give 'er bullets. Hope this helps! Also, don't lug these engines. Experts advise that at low revs, a harmonic is introduced that causes additional timing chain wear. The same harmonic is introduced over 5600rpm or so. But how hard you press on is entirely up to you. Enjoy your porsche!

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Exactly. By orders of magnitudes.

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I was taught to not hold the clutch pedal in for more than 5 to 10 seconds at a time. I just through it in neutral. I finally replaced the clutch (only because I dropped the engine and the while you are in there theme) at 143K miles. That was the original clutch, so I guess I am doing alright.

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No need to double declutch in any modern Porsche, that duty falls to your synchromesh hubs and baulk rings. Heel and toe may not be necessary for �normal street driving� but it�s beneficial and the more you do it, the more intuitive it becomes. I�ve done it for the last 35 years whenever I drive a manual car. Have also passengered with mates that can�t/won�t/don�t do it, and it�s painful to witness ...

I don't down shift when approaching a stop light. I do heel toe downshift for turns.

Part of the joy of a manual box is rowing through the gears . Whether upshifting or downshifting blipping the throttle is a concert of motion . I even give a quick throttle blip on upshifts . You can argue if it's needed but there is no denying its fun . Hard to put a price on fun .

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Well, on my car, when cruising around town in a chill manner, and/or when the trans is cold, when I shift from 1st and into 2nd, the RPMs drop too fast, so a small throttle application is required for a smooth transition into 2nd gear. I always think of my passengers when I drive stick. If their heads are bobbing when I�m driving, that�s not smooth.

I double clutch into first, old habit from a 4 speed 60's Camaro I had in high school.

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It probably even had a synchro 1st gear but went in easier with the double clutch. I got into the habit of double clutching on downshifts back when the cars I drove all had non-synchro 1st gear and a worn out 2nd gear synchro. I still do it out of habit. Heel/toe only if I'm trying to be speedy.

You downshift in anticipation of accelerating so you�re in the optimum rev range, if you know you�re stopping, no need to downshift. And yes, brakes, are cheaper.

I always think of my passengers when I drive stick. If their heads are bobbing when I�m driving, that�s not smooth.[/QUOTE] exactly!

Sometimes I'll downshift if coming up fast to a light or stop sign, and sometimes i won't. all depends on what I feel is right at the time. Even if I do downshift when coming to a stop, unless I'm taking off again quickly/immediately, I never shift into 1st gear till fully stopped. I learned to drive when double clutching was needed. Now, on todays modern fully syncro'd trannys, not needed at all. On the track, as others have said, most diffidently downshift to be in the right gear coming out of the corner. But on the track at the limit of adhesion, a not well executed downshift at the wrong time/rpm could cause a traction loss when you need as much adhesion as possible.... For older bike racers, they know what I mean. But now the new bikes all have slipper clutches to prevent downshift/engine braking traction loss in corners. God damn new vehicles drive themself and take a lot of skill out of the race equation imo... jmo

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I guess I am surprised at all the wrong answers in this thread. This is right: Everyone else is wrong. And you guys talking about double clutching and blipping... On UPSHIFTS... what the actual F. A lot of you act like heal / toe is some magic, or laborious process... wild.

I didn't realize there is only one way to drive and enjoy a manual transmission . I have been doing it wrong for 50 years apparently . And will continue to do so 😁

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I will "double clutch", i.e. shift into neutral, let the clutch out, then push it back in and shift into the next gear -- on upshifts, when the car is cold. It helps balky gears in cold gear oil engage more smoothly. I also do it at a dead stop when reverse won't engage. No throttle blips on upshifts though.

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Yeah man, you've definitely been doing it wrong. At least forward going you'll know you're doing it wrong. Blipping the throttle on upshifts... haha, amazing.

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Just curious do you ever do anything for fun ? I love the sound of my exhaust . It's fun to hear the up shift blip of the throttle . Has nothing to do with the transmission . It's just fun . You do what you do and I will do what I do . The two can coexist .

Nothing wrong with having fun with the car and enjoying the engine sounds on the way up or down in speed. Sure, I enjoy heal toe shifting around town and on the track when downshifting. I also enjoy staying in gear as i drive around town, and then taking my foot off the throttle to slow, maybe a blip and then down shift and then shifting into neutral before I come to a stop. What i dont enjoy is dumping the clutch from a dead stop, nor riding the clutch when accelerating from a stop in 1st to 2nd, nor sitting at a stop light with my clutch pressed in for the duration, all of which are the quickest way for a clutch replacement. If you want to have to rebuild your tranny, dump the clutch as you are downshifting causing wheel lock. This is where braking, speed and synchronizing the revs thru a blip come in handy.

I always downshift so car is in the correct gear for the speed - you never know if you'll need to quickly accelerate to avoid a situation. Also, 80% of the time, I slip the clutch will downshifting instead of heel toe. While I'm no expert at heel/toe, I notice it's generally much easier for me to blip if I'm braking hard, which I'm not doing in most situations. I have done this in all my manual cars and never experienced increased clutch wear. My 2013 VW CC has over 160,000 miles and it's still on the original clutch doing what I just described.

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I�ve never heard of blipping the throttle on the upshift but if you enjoy it why not Most of the time I�ll downshift coming to a stop. UNLESS there�s someone behind me. Most drivers today don�t understand the manual transmission. Slowing down without your brake lights coming on can be dangerous. He�s a racer, there�s no time for fun. It�s serious business when you have a big wing, helmet and gloves. There�s no time for frivolity when you�re living your life one lap at a time. Because if he�s not first, he�s last.

Sure is nice to have a modern gearbox in our cars with synchros. I remember driving a buddy's old MG 20 years ago trying to figure out how to shift it. Different world.

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Heel and toe is right. Anyone who spells it otherwise is wrong. A lot of you act like basic spelling is some magic, or laborious process ... wild. The irony is strong with this one ...

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I see what you're doing... lol Ya we know, you just need to leave your tranny in 4th gear all the time. So much LS torque under the mesa flat curve, u never need to downbshift. Probably can start out in 4th also Going to be nice to not to worry about gear changes/downshifting and just concentrate on entering and exiting corners correctly so you can be on the ragged edge at the apex, ,,then lay down that built LS Torque coming out of that corner. Hmmm, let us know what 6th gear feels like wound out tight...? Whats your new redline for your built LS3,,, a conservative 8000..?

Just to add another data point, I heel-and-toe downshift if I know I'm not going to be stopping and need to get to the right gear, but if I'm stopping I never downshift, just shift to neutral when the revs drop near idle. As was already mentioned in this thread, brakes are cheaper than transmissions and clutches. Easier to change, too. But definitely suit yourself. If you enjoy it then more power to you.

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MG might have had non-synchro first gear, that's all. Unless it was more than 2 weeks old, by which time 2nd gear synchro was probably worn out too.

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Truth...^^^

I always downshift. In this way I'll wear out my clutch sooner and have another reason to change it and the IMSB. /X3

Are people actually trying to say that using engine braking to slow down is harmful to your transmission and clutch? They shift into neutral and coast while braking? Would they do the same driving a tip or PDK? Lol, pull both paddles, coast and use the brakes only.

Don't know. The only time I shift into neutral is when I am coming to a stop at a light. The rest of the time I am enjoying shifting gears up and down.

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The internet is a wonderful place

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Double Clutching, on upshift (as opposed to double DE-clutching on downshift) is and was common practice for manual transmission in vehicles of all types.But there's no need to blip the throttle when DE-clutching, in fact, it's a bad idea. Why would you want faster engine revs when the gearbox is moving slower. No no no. Sometime else in the thread told me and argues that there's no need to double DE-clutch in a 996, that the balk and Synchromesh take care of it. Implying that when the clutch is pressed in, blipping the throttle somehow manages to match the transaxle / final drive to the engine revs. I fail to see how. If the clutch is depressed, then the transaxle is not spinning up to match the engine rev. Simply blipping the throttle can't do what's needed, which is to match the drive to engine revs. There's no connection. Instead, clutch in, neutral, clutch out, blip, clutch in, downshift, clutch out. Done correctly there's no damage or friction created heat, and no stress on the entire drivetrain. Importantly, double DE-clutching does not unsettle the car on corner entry. It will be hard to convince me that double DE-clutching is unnecessary. And it's also hard to unlearn decades of practice. Some posts here make me wonder if commonly, the accepted heel n toe is missing the double DE-clutching. Either that, or I am patently wrong 😎, and in the 70s, we all learned to do it wrong. I'm skeptical 💭💭💭... But go on, convince me. Or, take 30 minutes for You Tube . And come over to the dark side.

Deleted. It was not a very good contribution to the forum.

I knew from the very first post of this thread that it was going to be akin to motor oil and paint protection threads. It didn't disappoint.