What else to replace during IMS Retrofit.

I am considering doing the IMS Retrofit and replacing the RMS on my 40AE. It has low miles. I would appreciate knowing what others have replaced at the same time. (I will also replace the water pump based on age). Thanks.

Replace the AOS for sure. Look at the clutch while the trans is out anyway and decide if it should be changed as well.

Think of it as one word: IMSB/AOS/RMS/CLUTCH

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This Plus, I did water pump and coolant tank at same time.

IMS, RMS, clutch, water pump, coolant tank if it has not already been done. You go by sanantone... I assume you are in San Antonio? If you need a specialty shop that is LN certified, I suggest DBC Performance. Berk took care of my car.

Whatever is determined the engine needs at pre- qualification for the IMSR, plus the water pump, AOS and all 3 chain tensioners. We are having way too many installers drain the engine oil and dump it back in after the IMSR, even dealers are doing this and it makes no sense.

How many miles do the three chain tensioners Last ?

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I knew that would stir a discussion. I predict at least 4 more pages in good ole fashion Rennlist style discussing this aspect.

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Thats mostly dependent upon the oil thats been used and the service intervals. We see tensioners go south anywhere between 20K and 120K miles. If you have a rattle at start up for a split second, thats the engine telling you that the tensioners are giving up. At minimum we ultrasonically clean tensioners during our IMSR procedures, but 8 out of 10 times we replace them. Lazy tensioners can cause all sorts of issues, including accelerated timing chain and guide rail wear.

If you ask 5 mechanics, you will get at least 3 different answers. The AOS is typically done at 60k. The internal diaphragm can fail and cause a puff of smoke. The chain tensioners only if you hear a rattle upon start up. Just find an honest mechanic who will check you car out thoroughly and you will be fine. Any part, new or old, can break at any time.

Isn't the AOS on 40th's different to standards and not prone to failure?

Thanks for the input. I will certainly pursue the components mentioned above. I will replace the water pump but at 8000 miles, I suspect that the tensioners and AOS are fine. I appreciate everyone's input...

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I don't think so as there are quite a few posts regarding AOS failure on 40th's.

I did it because getting to it later if went would be a PITA and expensive. This way already there so look at it as a wear item and cheaper than having to do it later on its own.

I will research some the posts on the AOS. In the grand scheme of things the cost of the AOS replacement will not add too significantly to the overall cost of the IMS, RMS and water replacement. Keep the suggestions coming. It is a huge help. Thanks.

Just remember regardless of milege, the car is still 10 years old. Are you dropping the engine/trans? I can give you a great list if you are. Please post pics!

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And make sure you use a IMS mechanic approved by LN. I suspect the less than 1% post IMS failure rate LN reports is due to improper installation by unauthorized installers.

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Of the 200+ technicians that have attended my classes this year I've only had 3 that have stated they pre- qualify engines prior to a retrofit procedure. Some bragged about how fast they can perform a retrofit, and that's not any good for anyone involved. Often in classes technicians state that they can't afford to perform a pre- qualification procedure and take the time to ensure the engine does not have problems. Those shops will never be invited to the Certified Installer program. Understand the difference between a Certified Installer from IMS Solution and a preferred installer by LN.

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Not sure of your point here. Using LN preferred installers for the retrofit allows the customer to contact LN if there is a dispute. I see that as a good thing. If you are saying only trust the certified IMS solution mechanics because they are willing/trained to sell/install a much more expensive job, that seems odd.

A preferred installer is simply a paid for position. It does not require any evaluation or training. It's an advertisement. This is not the case with a Certified Installer who must attend training then pass an evaluation. The Certified Installers must turn in completed pre- qualification forms and meet other criteria with each retrofit they register and perform.

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While I respect your passion and zeal regarding the IMS issue and the excellent fixes that you and LN have created, I do find your sales approach and comments to be demeaning to the numerous experienced and skilled independent shops that provide excellent, honest service. If one reads your posts and listens to your knowledgeable sales reps, one comes away thinking that the IMS replacement along with possible clutch work, flywheel replacement, AOS replacement are incredibly complex and can only be done by a select few (preferably Flat 6 Innovations). While I have no doubt that you and your team do great work, there are others who also do. One needs to seek these shops out and do the requisite background checking. I suspect that many of the "Recommended" installers who "paid" to be on the LN site, do excellent work. I researched my local shop and have determined that they do excellent work at a fair price. We have discussed my upcoming project for over an hour. I am not a mechanic but I am very particular about my cars. I asked the shop owner if he would be doing the work. He chuckled and said that he now only gets his hands dirty on only the most complex jobs when his Porsche certified technician (17+Years experience) needs help. He volunteered that the IMS retrofit was not that challenging for an experienced technician (3/10 degree of difficulty). If this is accurate, I suspect that there are many skilled, experienced technicians who can successfully and easily do the IMS retrofit. Furthermore, I am confident that they can also install the Solution if the requirements for "training" were more realistic. I would install the Solution but will not do so because no one in my area has chosen to complete your training. I will "settle" for the IMS retrofit classic and I am confident that all will be fine. Thanks again for your contributions and for your work to provide us with a great IMS fix.

I would also consider the Direct Oil Feed IMSB flange. I did my LN bearing retrofit before the DOF was available. The next time I'm in there I will put a DOF in mine. http://tunersmotorsports.com/?page_id=103

My experience is in the healthcare field, but just because someone takes the time and spends the money to complete a postgraduate course from a "guru" and gets a certificate of completion is not always a guarantee he/she will faithfully implement those procedures as taught.

I was merely stating that a Preferred installer is just a paid position on the LN website, and that no matter who is chosen to carry out your retrofit the engine must be qualified for the job.. No matter what retrofit is being implemented, or who is doing the work. Everyone's perception of the procedure is different. Fronm the very first day that I developed the very first retrofit procedure with the very first commercially available IMSB Retrofit a pre- qualification of the engine has been part of the process.

IMS installation, so simple evan a Porsche dealer can do it. I know. That's who installed mine

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This is a bit confusing. I don't doubt people have told you that Jake - that's not what I'm confused by. Maybe I'm over-simplifying things here, but... isn't "the shop" getting paid by a customer to do the IMSR, and thus... wouldn't they get paid for the time required for pre-qualify the engine? I'm not a business expect by any means - but I kind of thought that pure labor (ie. the pre-qualification) is generally your best means to turn a profit as a business. I'm a new 996 C4s owner and I've been lurking on the IMS threads for the last the last few months absorbing everything I can... and it seems to me that the info on how to pre-qualify an engine isn't exactly hidden... Are there shops out there that really just don't know how to use Google or is there a key piece of info out there that I'm missing?

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General shops work by flat rate.. This means that they charge "book time" for doing work. No matter how long a job takes they still charge this amount of time for it. So, what this means is it's entirely possible for a technician to do a job in 1/2 the amount of time that's called for "by the book" and still get paid full book time, because somewhere along the way someone said that this was the general amount of time the job should take. This is where corner cutting comes in. This way if paying technicians promotes negligence and anything that takes any amount of time slows the tech down and costs him money, because no matter how long the job takes he is still getting paid the same. The faster he can do the work and get onto the next job, the faster he can do that job and the more money he will make. Some techs can get paid for 60-80 hours per week but only log 40 real hours. By the same token the faster a tech is the more money the shop makes as well, because that much more book time is able to be charged to each customer. These things are most clear in areas with a lot of P- car shops in a smaller area as the shops fight for the work and charge less to get that work. That means they either charge less per hour or they charge less book time. This leaves no room for extra time to be taken to pre qualify an engine or do anything extra at all. Some shops are not even changing the oil during an IMSR procedure! They are draining just enough out to facilitate the job and then dumping the used oil back into the engine with a retrofitted IMSB. They are doing this to have a cheaper advertised price that the shop around the corner. These are the places you want to avoid when choosing a shop to perform an IMSR procedure. The cheaper price is not going to net the highest grade work in 90% of the cases. We have found that the shops that have done the most IMSR procedures have the cheaper prices and they are the ones that rush through it. I'd rather have a less experienced tech install an IMSR and take more time to do the job, than so e guy who has done 50 of them and has learned bad habits along the way, like the guy a few weeks back that was using an impact wrench to tighten the center retaining nut, because it saved time. Maybe that sums it up... Choose a shop that pays their employees per real time hour and they'll be more generally accepting to going above and beyond.

Thanks for the response Jake! Funny, you would think I would know that kind of stuff by now, but I realized - I've almost never had a shop work on a car that wasn't warranty work. Generally speaking, all my cars have either been new enough that the dealer works on them for no charge - or they've been too old/specialized for me to trust anyone other than myself to work on them. Good explanation though, thank you. And on that note - I think I'm only going to have people work on my cars that charge hourly If it gets to the point where I have someone other than myself work on my car, it means that I want it done correctly - not quickly.

JMHO but IMSB replacement falls into three basic catagories; 1. Replacement as PM. 2. Replacement due to failing IMSB. 3. Replacement due to failed IMSB. If after inspection, someone is too dense or lazy to know which catagory the engine falls under, well then thats another issue all together.