2.7 Boxster Motor Into A 996...Real Answers?

Well, my 996 ownership experience since last fall and has taken a turn for the worse. Looks like the oil pump has let go and I've got to decide what to do with it. It's still my dream car and I do love it, so seeing what my options are besides a new/replacement 3.4. I have contacts that heve a 2.7 Boxster motor that ran perfectly before it was pulled, and I can get it at a tiny fraction of what a 3.4 will cost me. If I can make a modern version of a 912 I might be willing. I've searched these forums and the net generally, and can't get a definitive answer on what the swap truly entails besides using my manifolds and tapping for the exhaust. DME possibly an issue though not confirmed. Any of you guys have first hand experience or knowledge in doing this swap? I'm not concerned abour resale, I'd like to drive this car for the next decade if I could. Thanks in advance for any help ou can offer This is the poor beast:

Well, the advantage of the 912 was that it was lighter. I don't think the 2.7 motor is much lighter than the 3.4, right, so keep that in mind. Great looking car btw, sorry to hear about your engine troubles.

Apparently the stock DME will account for a 10% change in displacement. It should be a very straightforward swap. The real question is... why? Why bother. Spend the extra bucks and get a 3.4 a 2.7 in a 911 would be pretty gutless. Then again I've always reviled 912s

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The 2.7 is indeed 75hp less, though the job cost will be 3 -4X less that a decent 3.4. I do zero track and will not be doing any in the future either. I need more of a highway cruiser and this thing with a 2.7 would do the job. The rest of the car is solid all around, including the still buttery transmission...I'd prefer to not sell it as a roller, and have a driveable vehicle.

Pull the oil pump and crankshaft from the 2.7 and fix the 3.4. They are the same stroke and will fit. You could also take the 2.7 with some 101mm Nickies and have a 3.8 with all the 3.4 intake, heads, and exhaust.. Putting a 2.7 in a 996 for long term use is kinda sad..

Man that really sucks. I should stay off RL, it makes me paranoid. Do you know _why_ your oil pump failed? Were there any signs? Maybe your engine is salvageable? Now I 'm doomscrolling Oil pump failures and issues. https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...with-pics.html Maybe this upgrade will help me avoid the same thing... https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...p-upgrade.html I was planning on having my indy refresh my Cooling system in the next little while, new hoses and water pump and thermostat and various other bits. Maybe while he is in there I should ask him to do an oil change and upgrade / refresh my oil pump spring piston and bolt. Well, while he's in there doing all those things, maybe I'll just get the entire oil system renewed as well. My car has 96K miles and was bought with no svc history, so...

Paranoia and 996 ownership really aren't a good match.

I have a 3.2 in my 996 which is probably as close as you�ll find. You have to drill and tap for the intake manifold; exhaust should bolt up(see below for clarification). I�ve never flashed my ecu but am going to this fall. ECU Doctors have told me they could put a 3.2 stage 1 flash on my 996 ecu. At least when I did my swap 3.2 engines weren�t much more in cost than 2.7 engines but both were way less than 3.4 engines. Honestly as long as the engine matches the right dme it�s pretty plug and play. The 3.2 is certainly still pretty responsive(especially since the intake manifold and exhaust from the 3.4 should theoretically allow it to breathe better). I do Think the 2.7 could be a little pokey but honestly it�ll probably still be fun; you can drive it that much harder!

I take one thing back; you have to drill and tap for the exhaust muffler hanger. The manifolds bolt up but the hanger bolts need to be drilled/tapped.

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Whlie you are correct in my opinion especially re Nickies. Australia is such a heavily policed place, one of our leading air coolled 911 writers the late Jeff Carter gave up on Porsche due to the harassment.If activites were street only he'd struggle to use the 2.7 here, and it was a major air cooled (lower powered) displacement. You'd need club activities to enjoy a 3.4 or Nickies upgrade here, with low speed limits, mobile speed cameras etc. So most gear heads survive off club booked track activities etc. down under.

You�re better off just buying a Boxster and selling your 911 as a roller. The original 2.7 is anemic as it is, but in an original Boxster, can still be at least a little fun. In a 911, though, I agree, that�s going to be pretty sad. At a minimum, a 3.2 Boxster S motor might work, but again, the hassle and conversion is not worth it. Sell the 911 and buy a Boxster is easy. At least here in the U.S. where cars are plentiful. You might not be in that situation.

The earlier 2.7L engines in the 986 Boxster really underperformed by 911 standards and I wouldn't suggest transplanting that engine into the car. A 2.7L in a 911 is like a little wiener on a body builder. Something aint right with that picture.

If you do go this route, I would be interested in buying the 3.4, as I have a high mileage 3.4 that I would like to rebuild, but don't want to stop driving the car while I do so. That said, I don't think putting a 2.7 into a 996 is the right path. Better to find a 3.2 and then flash the ECM with a hotter tune... that will get you close to the 3.4 drive feel. I think there just isn't enough displacement in the 2.7 Still, its your car, and bystanders can't judge.

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The last 10,000 miles in my car tells it isn�t a situation of �might�; it definitely does work. I would say hassle/conversion is not much to get worked up about. Either way an engine is coming out and going back in; when I bought my 3.2 it cost $3,000 and had a somewhat recent LN IMS bearing replacement put in. The cheapest 3.4 I could find then was $8,000. In a quick look at the market it looks like the respective numbers are probably more like $4,500 and $10,000. Everyone gauges value differently; I always thought I would swap in a 3.4 but quite honestly; my car runs well enough and is quick enough that I�ve never really felt that strongly about it. So if you can drill and tap maybe 15ish holes and save $5,000; maybe it makes sense to some people.

The 2.7 is one of the best M96 engines reliability wise. It's what I would prefer in a 986 Boxster. But in a second 996(My first one's getting a 4.0) I might consider a 3.2, but wouldn't go with a 2.7 unless that was all I could find and a rebuild of the original 3.4/3.6 was impossible. The 3.2 would still be quicker than most NA aircooled 911s, so it would still be very enjoyable to drive. If the decision comes down to 2.7 or roller, I'd go 2.7 knowing it would resell as a "running roller" somewhere down the line. 3.6L 320 hp 3.4L 300 hp 3.2L 247 hp 2.7L 222 hp 1995-1998 911(993) 272 hp 1989-1994 911(964) 3.6L 247hp 1974-1989 911 3.2L 217 hp 1965-1973 911 2L 130hp Granted the aircooled are lighter, but their overall performance is lower. I'd still like one because I think they would still be fun to drive even after driving my 996.

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good breakdown, small quibble in just that isn�t the 996 lighter than the 993? Maybe even the 964?

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For sure 996.1s are lighter than both 964s and 993s. I believe the .2s were slightly heavier than the 964s, but still lighter than the 993.

Sorry guys, I’m old, so when I said that aircooled 911s are lighter, I meant the ones from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. I was a mechanic and worked on 911s back in the early 90s. I mainly worked on 70s and 80s 911s. Those were around 2300 pounds, so MUCH lighter than a 996. Interesting that the 964 and 993s are heavier than a 996. I’m not very familiar with 964 and 993s.

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good point Tex. I wonder if the 964 is heavier as both a C2 and C4? I wish I had a 964 too�

Joking aside. The 2.7L M9X engines are solid performers. They are proven to be very durable and less prone to issues like cylinder bore scoring. My M97.20 feels as quick as my last two 996 Carreras. I kid you not. The engine is perfectly matched to the 2800 lbs of the Cayman.

Thanks for the info and discussion guys! I�m still mulling over what to do. A 3.4 is out of the question for me due to the massive cost. I know a 3.2 would be ideal absolutely though the prices really did shoot up on them as well. I have time, and I have space to store it until I decide. I also might see if someone does want it as a roller. Not being in a rush to decide is definitely in my favor at least.

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What I said is true for C2 manual coupes, but I assume it would translate to the C4 as well. It may not be true for tips, targas, and cabs though. To the op, having time to wait is definitely good. I don't know you budget, availability in Canada, or the going rate for a 2.7, but I saw a 3.2 for sale in WA not too long ago for $3k.

There is a pretty massive difference in a 3.2 and a 2.7. The 3.2 has the same valve size, cams, and ports of the 3.4, if useing the 3.4 taller better flowing intake and exhaust, the only thing the 3.2 is missing is 200cc ( and you need to drill and tap a few holes for the exhaust brackets) . Using the 2.7 even with the 3.4 intake and exhaust, you will be missing 500cc plus the bigger valves, cams, and intake ports. A BIG difference. If I wanted to go cheap, and not wanting ALL the horsepower,I would wait for a 3.2, it will be so close to a 3.4 the difference will be negligible..

David, sorry to hear about your engine. Hope you find a solution. I gotta say, this is the first I have heard of oil pump failure. Years ago it was discussed as a potential cause of oil starvation but the reality was guys weren't running enough oil on the track and it was oil starvation/oil pressure instability as well as cooling that ended up getting them. How did this happen? How many miles on the car.

Really? The hex shafts in the pumps fail once in a while. I have seen it a few times in the couple years u have been here. i assume this was the failure with the op's car. May also be a debris issue that caused it too. Thats why upgraded ones r available from LN.

No, it's a new one to me. I'll have to add it to the refresh list and understand what causes it.

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THere was a little startup noise that was happening over the last few weeks, and decided I'd not drive it until I could get it to my tech to have it checked out. After a string of events that left literally all my other cars down (my C230 couple blew a transmission cooler line super early Sunday morning), I was forced to take the Porsche to run around to get the MB towed and my son to his Mom's house. It drove perfectly, and I don't push my cars. I was arriving at the exit off the highway and I see my oil light on and oil pressure guage pegged at zero. Heart dropped, got off the exit that was right there and pushed the car into a gas station lot. And that was it . Towed to my tech, good bits of metal in the oil. It's not seized, we know it's not good though...

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Since you said you have the time, why not pull the engine, and see how bad the damage really is? You might be able to salvage it with only a basic rebuild. Totally doable in your own garage. Its a sunk cost at this point anyway, all you would expend is your labor pulling it apart to see how bad it is.

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Damage. Looks like the oil pump refresh is cheap and easy. Appreciate the threads you attached. Looks to be a very low probability issue, but as a "preventative" guy, all I see is a benefit to replacing cheap 20 year parts that will increase durability and functionality over the next 20 years. As I look at it, many of the problems with parts in our engines can be mitigated if you run lots of clean oil and keep it cool. If i was the average 996 owner who drives on the street, i would immediately replace my OEM AOS with the UAOS track version and run my oil at full or slightly over to make sure i had plenty of oil. The second thing i would do is change my oil at least 2x a year. Maybe after reading about the oil pump, i would refresh the internal parts since they are 20 years old and cheap, to make sure my oil pump was pumping at full capacity and durable. I am not loosing any sleep over oil pump failure. But I do feel for the OP and his dilemma, big time.

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I have the time meaning I have other cars and I own the 996 outright . I have space for 7 cars in my driveway though no not have a garage unfortunately so doing that at mine isn't really an option. I'll be discusing the reality of the possibility of installing a smaller motor, as well as speaking to a couiple people who might be interested in the car whole as is.

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75hp is alot

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It is. Depends what someone wants to do with their car though. I do zero track, I do zero racing at all. I live in a big city with the worst roads in North America that has a brutal winter that lasts 4-5 months while the Porsche sleeps. I'm into the adage of driving a slow car fast is more fun

Sounds like you have a plan, then. Only 2 cents I can add to the conversation is that if you put that 2.7 in - it's essentially your car, or you will have to still sell it at a near-roller price in the future. (I'd love to be proven wrong, that's just my gut intuition.)

If it's a choice between driveway art -selling as a roller -or the 2.7 . The 2.7 could be a viable interim option provided the labor costs to install is reasonable .Odds are pretty good that there will always be a demand for 2.7 engines so your exposure there isn't that great if some time in the future you elect to put a 3.4 back in .I personally would not do the 3.2 because resale would be adversely affected and the cost is higher .

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Yep, you've got my thought process down pat. Once a 2.7 would be installed and the 911 is running, there would definitely be a market for it as a cheaper running 911 is still a 911. I probably wouldn't lose money on this endeavor.

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So I've been combing the internets since yesterday and from what I can see, a 2.7 from a 2002 Boxster should indeed work mostly. Swap over the intake and exhaust including tapping the mounting points. The question I have (and I hope that you aro someone reading this drivel) is whether I can use my DME running 5.2 with the motor as-is, seeing intake/exhaust will be upgraded. NOT ideal I know...would it work though? Or would ECUDoctor be able to modify for my application (I've already sent them a message regarding this). Any more input from you guys is always appreciated!

I don�t know if you�ve seen this, I just saw it this morning. Not affiliated: https://rennlist.com/forums/boxster-...ne-feeler.html

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Thanks! Looking into this!

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I agree. There won't be many takers for "FOR SALE: Franken911 with 75 less HP than it oughta have"

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Overall I agree. I would love this to be a forever car. As well, a fun, decent looking and properly running 911 will always have some value. Either way, a running motor will be faster than me pushing it as I'd have to presently

Heh. I hear you. That's why I gave away my back seats and continue ragging mine out - nearly at 106K miles, most of them hard. Screw the next guy.

Maybe selling one of those six other cars could fund a proper motor�🤔

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I did! I sold the BMW to a pal...that should cover the cost of a running 2.7.......

Keep us in the loop during the swap.

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I absolutely will, and I'm trying to nail down details. Apart from the DME, from what I can understand from reverse engineering the Pelican Parts tutorial of putting a 996 motor in a Boxster is that any 2.7 or 3.2 from a Boxster up until 2002 should be a straightforward install (besides installing my 996 intake and drilling for exhaust brackets). There is extra wiring to install when putting 996 into Boxster, though the 996 already has all good to go for a 2.7/3.2 install. If anyone can confirm this here as mush as possible, I really will get started on doing this. I found a motor, and my shop is willing to do the swap. I could have this happeing within the month if I can get concrete info!

Mechanically this isn't a big stretch .The DME could potentially be an issue and is a custom tune needed ?.If so by whom and where ? You might want to call one of the Porsche tuners like softronics and see what options are out there .

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I've already enquired at ECUDoctor in Florida and the can tune my DME to whatever spec I'd need. Not cheap though should work. Looks like Softronics only works on DBW cars so mine if out of their loop it seems.

No extra wiring will be needed if you use the wiring harness that goes with the car...ie. use the 996 wiring harness from your 3.4.. 996 needs the 996 wiring harness Boxster needs the Boxster wiring harness Only time any extra wiring is needed is when using a manual harness on a Tiptronic car..If using a Tiptronic harness on a manual car you will have extra wires with no place to go. OR going from DME 5.2.2 to DME 7.8 (don't do this, lots of stuff to change)

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IMHO, it should be worth more than a K-swapped 996. At least it will sound the part. It makes me think that perhaps buying a roller at a good price might be worth it if you can swap in a 2.7 and drive until you get around to fixing the original motor, or rebuilding the 2.7 as a 3.6L or 3.8L. -72HP might be noticeable, but 228HP is still not horrible. A running and driving 996 > a parked broken 996

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And easily reversible, a K-swapped 996= not so much

I just checked and it looks like LN Engineering only offers 2.7 to 2.9 Nickies. So no rebuilding the 2.7 into a 3.6 or 3.8. But you could still run it as a 2.7 until/while you're building your big displacement monster..

[QUOTE=davidpg;18210656]I've already enquired at ECUDoctor in Florida and the can tune my DME to whatever spec I'd need. Not cheap though should work. Looks like Softronics only works on DBW cars so mine if out of their loop it seems.[/QUOTE So they can do a 2.7 with cable throttle body and variable intake ?

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[QUOTE=dcdrechsel;18210745] Aparently they can as per their email responses. I'm making my plans.......

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So using all my original 996 wiring, and keeping my 996 cable throttle intake, the 2.7 Boxster motor itself from a 2002 should run properly except for the 5.2.2 DME needing ro be modified for 2.7 parameters. Should that be correct? Besides drilling and tapping for the exhaust of course.

Hi David, I think one final way to verify the swap would be to compare wiring diagrams of your harness. You�d need to figure out which sensors/connections follow the intake and which sensors/connections follow the rest BUT; if you could account for whatever goes to the 2.7 engine and whatever goes to the 3.4 intake; and compare to the original harness you�d be in good shape. I tried doing it on my phone without success but I still think it would be the way to be 100% sure on compatibility.

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I have the Boxster Bentley at home...I'm sure I could rustle up the 996 schematics. Good idea!

For your reading pleasure, includes the wiring diagrams. http://audipages.com/911/wsm/

Okay, so it looks like I'm going to start by first pulling my motor and doing a post mortem. The motor itself is not seized, so MAYBE it'll be saveable. I'm going to have the car towed back to my house and at some point this summer, we'll drop the motor and se what's actually damaged, From that point I'll make a decision. And I'll keep you all posted as I go along!

Not really suggesting you do this, but I saw this twin turbo Boxter...... Link to the actual article: https://blog.fcpeuro.com/bisimoto-ce...-boxster-turbo Now, I realize you are just planning to do a direct swap; but I admit I would be tempted myself to sleeve a 2.7 and fab up those direct dump twin turbos to my C4 and get 400+ hp out of that little 2.7 Just something fun to read. Best of luck, and in all seriousness, i do hope you are able to salvage the 3.4

So my 996 has been towed back to my house and looks like we'll pull the motor some time in the next couple of months. I have indeed been toying with selling it complete as a roller. It's complete of course, and the interior is really nice. What would you think is a fair price as-is?

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Depends on many factors , but mileage , rust , options and etc � prior to 2020 before the prices exploded it was $8-12k for decent example I�d say with current market $12-20k is typical , again all depending on model, year and options

I was about to say those values are a bit high...but then saw it was Canadian dollars. That sounds about right these days.

Well seems my 2.7 has gotten away. I'll look for another while I'm setting up the motror teardown. In the meantime, I still might put it up for sale as a complete roller as-is. Besides MArketplace and Kijiji, anywhere else that might be good? Would BaT be a possible avenue?

If BAT allows it, I would do it. I mean it was called Bring A Trailer once before, but I don�t remember why

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made me chuckle out loud

Well, yesterday I decided on the fly to post it for sale on FB Marketplace, and it was sold to the first person who came to see it. I had somewhere around 60 messages within the two hours it was up. Sold to an older guy who already has a uilt and restored 75 914, so it's going to a good home! Seems my first go-around at 911 ownership has come to its end. Lets see what happens next! And thanks for all the help, guys!