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YOUR RESEARCHIMS on '06 997: Ever seen an IMS with a 22mm nut and old style, replaceable bearing?
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Install with a reman'ed engne
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I have seen a post where a gentleman has a 996 fitted with a reman'ed engne that already has this 22mm nut unbeknownst to him.
IMS on '06 997: Ever seen an IMS with a 22mm nut and old style, replaceable bearing?
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Leading evidence: 'Install with a reman'ed engne' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Install with a reman'ed engne' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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IMS on '06 997: Ever seen an IMS with a 22mm nut and old style, replaceable bearing?
Replace clutch and flywheel and put trans back in
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I pulled the transmission and confirmed it had the 22mm nut, so I replaced clutch and flywheel and put trans back in.
IMS on '06 997: Ever seen an IMS with a 22mm nut and old style, replaceable bearing?
Replace clutch while he was in there
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IMS on '06 997: Ever seen an IMS with a 22mm nut and old style, replaceable bearing?
Use m96 cases though mid-2006 in the 997's
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
IIRC, Porsche used M96 cases though mid-2006 in the 997's.
IMS on '06 997: Ever seen an IMS with a 22mm nut and old style, replaceable bearing?
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I have an '06 997 C4S I picked up last fall. Before I knew any better, I asked my mechanic to proactively replace the IMS because I had read they were an issue in 911s.
Turns out he was able to replace it. A few people on the forum have asked me about this and it seems to be rather unusual. Since this is new info, thought I might help the group so I started a thread about it over in the 997 area:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...style-ims.html
In that thread it was suggested I post here and ask if anyone has come across this situation before?
Has anyone seen an '06 with a replaceable IMS and a 22mm nut?
Jake has mentioned finding a dual row in an 03 so I guess anything is possible. Don't the non-replaceable bearings still have the flange though (e.g. Other than the nut that pic doesn't say anything)?
I have seen a post where a gentleman has a 996 fitted with a reman'ed engne that already has this 22mm nut unbeknownst to him. He bought an LN bearing and the tools trying to do a retrofit only to find out this 22mm nut IMSB is larger and non extractable. So that's the significance of the 22mm nut.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...acement/page-3
wow - i've been following this thread on 997 forum - looks like mechanic made an extra couple $grand$ playing with customer
hopefully OP gets some answers
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/800x453/serial_ca78b0b4648c754781ff2235f26166ca1713b9cc.jpg
Depends on when yours was built. If it was built after they switch to the bigger bearing, yes (which of course is not 100% in the Porsche world
). If it was done before they moved to that bearing then you'll have one of the replaceable versions.
I could be wrong, but I believe the bigger bearing didn't show up in remans until after the m97 was in production.
I also haven't heard of a reman with a dual row, but if it was done early enough I suppose it is possible.
rant
Ummm... Last I heard you couldn't remove the IMS on any of the motors without splitting the case
I know we all know what he was talking about, but it just bugs me when someone tries to tell me they have the answer to my problems yet can't be bothered to use the correct terminology.
/rant
Whatever records I could find, show it was replaced by Porsche in 08. Not sure when it was actually re manufactured though.
Sorry for hijacking the thread
x2. It definitely is the newer M97 block. I don't have any info on exactly what date or a date range where the blocks were fuzzy between Porsche still using the older and smaller bearing and the newer larger one but IIRC, this was only on '05 models. Considering this an '06 model, I would assume it would be the larger one.
I'm leaning towards the bored theory myself on this one.
Those were still dubbed m96 though correct? I didn't think they started using the m97 designation until they went to the bigger bearing (among other tweaks to the engine).
Different Jake chiming in here but yes that is the larger bearing. A split case would be required to change the bearing. A bearing is still available for it, just a lot more labor to do so.
http://lnengineering.com/products/im...-106-0821.html
I have 1999 C-2 with replacement engine, #M9601AT66X66646. Did a little research on engine number and the last 5 numbers compared to engine numbers produced after 2007 were in the same range (66646). I suspected that my engine may have the larger non replaceable bearing without splitting engine case. I pulled the transmission and confirmed it had the 22mm nut, so I replaced clutch and flywheel and put trans back in. Have been watching the 997 forum to monitor failure rates and don't seem to hear about too many with the larger bearing.
OP, mind sharing with us how much you paid for labor to get this done? I can't imagine anyone charging anywhere close to a regular IMSB retrofit for the serviceable older motors.
No problem. Happy to be part of the community and help out fellow enthusiasts.
That bearing would typically be replaced while you have the engine apart for additional work. This is not something I would recommend unless the engine was being split for another reason.
now i have to think the mechanic screwed the owner - i highly doubt the mechanic had the special tool to "bore-out" the case in order to fit the new bearing??
and if he did have the tool, who in their right mind isn't going to charge an extra $2-$300 for labor to bore the case and fit the new bearing considering the amount of intrusion to the case??
Wheres the new bearing serial# tag - I am sure it can be traced back to the manufacturer thru the purchase order. i'd be all over this like a fly on sh_t
You proactively had the RMS and IMS replaced on a car that was not leaking?
Even if the mechanic DID use the machine tool to grind a larger hole in OP's engine block, that's the kind of thing I'd want to mention to a customer IN ADVANCE - "say, in order to install this bearing, I'm going to grind a hole in your car with a lash-up tool that might - but might not - leave a bunch of debris inside."
I'm not a shop owner - but if I was, there would be a huge-*** disclaimer/release of liability to sign before doing that particular retrofit.
Definitely doesn't include splitting the case, but even in the case of a replaceable bearing that is just about the cost of the labor alone.
It's not like replacing the bearing is simply removing 3 bolts, yanking it out, and hammering the new one in. Having to take the transmission out of the way for a new clutch/flywheel does cover some of the labor, but there is still certainly more to go.
I'd definitely want to see a detailed list of what was done and if that includes a new bearing I'd want to see the old bearing and a copy of their invoice for purchasing the part. $800 to replace what really appears to be a non-replaceable bearing definitely stretches credulity a bit.
No I believe the OP stated that it was only $800 more since he already had paid to have them remove tranny to do the RMS. But on a confirmed '06 M97 block(based on serial number), it is highly unlikely that he had the older serviceable IMS.
It's worse, guys. The invoice of the LN single ceramic bearing (996 size) is shown in the 997 thread. Even if the mechanic had split or bored the case, that (smaller) LN bearing would not have fitted.
I know, I'm talking about the labor involved once the tranny is out. Maybe $800 is high for just labor, but that is not enough for a bearing and the labor to install it (without the labor of removing the tranny).
OP, I know you want to give your wrench the benefit of the doubt, but it sounds like you may have been charged $800 for something that didn't happen - so in addition to getting boned for the cost, you're also driving around thinking Thing A when Thing B is actually the case.
If it turns out you have the new super-duper more-better-robust bearing, that's info you want to have, right? So even to glean that info is worth a follow-up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby View Post
The engine number is etched into the block at the oil sump plate/ block parting line on a boss that sits at a 45* angle to the block.
Indeed it is, and here is how to decipher it:
- Last 5 digits on from the right are the specific serial number
- 6th digit from the right is the code for the year of production
- 7th and 8th digits from the right are for type of engine (NA or turbo, and for the number of cylinders
Back to the year of production (6th digit from the right end)
W = 1998
X = 1999
Y = 2000
1 = 2001
2 = 2002
3 = 2003
4 = 2004
etc.
On my replacement engine, the stamped (or etched) number appears like this:
M96/3066309588
The 6th digit from the right is a "3", denoting the engine was produced in 2003.
The above comes from page 599 of "Porsche 996 - The Essential Companion"
Hope this is helpful.
I believe the AT stamped within then engine number designates a factory reman from Porsche
$800 was the cost for the IMS bearing. He was already replacing the rear main seal so there was no additional labor to do the bearing. Also replaced the clutch while he was in there.
The bigger nut also means larger diameter center stud (you can tell from your photo) and that means larger bearing. You can't have a fatter stud with a smaller bearing. Physically impossible.
So Q1) how he got the old larger bearing out of the case?
Q2) how he fit the smaller LN single row (per the invoice) into the larger ims hole?
Posted in other thread also;
OK so it would appear that everyone here was on the right track. I have discussed with the mechanic and we are working it out. My sincere thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'm just glad to know what's going on with my car now.
Wow! I'll be interested to hear the outcome of whatever agreement you make. I hope at the very least you get your full $800 back that he "stole" from you, and also whether you plan on having him do any more work on your car...
Ahh, but as I said, swapping the bearing isn't "free" when you are already doing the clutch/flywheel. There should be additional labor even if it was a replaceable bearing.
Glad you are getting it sorted out though.
hmmm, working it out
...
he's thinkin long and hard how to come clean that he's a DRS (dirty rotten scoundrel, aka caine/martin) without coming clean and having you buy it, like the ims bearing...
Any further updates will be posted in the original thread, going to close this one down. Thanks all for the feedback.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...style-ims.html
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
