997 worth the extra cost compared to a 996?

Hello, I am looking at getting my first Porsche. I want a 911. I have driven a 03 996 Targa and was thrilled. The price is in my budget. For about $8000 more I can get a 2005 997. Is the 997 really that much better then a 996? Thank you.

The biggest thing with the 996 is the IMSB hysteria and you have to move to the 997.2 (considerably more than and $8k difference) to get away from that entirely. Especially with the 2005 the 997 is mostly a change to the interior and exterior looks while mechanically and structurally it is pretty much a 996 still. So to me, no it's not worth it. Keep the $8k and set it aside for things a 13 year old car is going to need to bring it up to par and make sure you have a good seed for the future if something big happens.

The 997 is incrementally more power - it's a good-sized increment, but it's still not an order of magnitude faster. Conventional wisdom is to buy the newest car you can afford - but in this case, I'm not sure 2 years is worth $8K. You're still not out of the woods with potential engine woes with an '05 997, and while many prefer the more traditional interior of the 997 (lots of straight lines and boxes), I personally enjoy the swoopy curves of the 996, and I'm willing to overlook the second-rate materials because I prefer simplicity. The Targa is one of the rarer 996's, so it has that going for it. You're really the only person who can answer the question of whether the 997 is worth $8K more. In my opinion, no - a two-year bump wouldn't be worth it, but if you hate the 996's front appearance, or you worry about what other Porsche people say, the 997 might be the right car.

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997 is 5 hp more then a 996.2 and actually 0-100kph/ 0-62 mph stats are similar if not slower then a 996.2 due to extra weight added.

Have you seen what some people are willing to spend for products that _may_ yield a 5HP increase (but probably result in a zero HP increase, or worse, a decrease in WHP somewhere along the curve)?

From a looks and interior build quality perspective? YES (personal opinion on the looks part) Mechanically? Not really (996.2 and 997.1 are essentially the same car under a different body) That said, you should also consider 2 things... 1. Which will retain most of its value? 2. And perhaps most importantly, which car do you WANT?

I was stuck on the 997.1 C2 train for a long time...it was just in my price range but I couldn't quit pull the trigger on one. When I ended up with my '02 C2, I paid nearly $20k less (Canadian, 2013 dollars) and since then I've invested that much in maintenance and upgrades (Coil overs, IMSB, clutch etc etc etc) that I'm glad I saved the purchase cost to make my 996, *my* 996. Sure it's slightly uglier and slightly less powerful, but only Porsche guys know that. But this way I can afford to have fun with it.

Like music, design choice is purely in the hands of the buyer/owner. I would seriously consider a 996 C4S - While being a much more aggressive looking design and better driving/handling 996, I see the C4S as somewhat of an investment compared to the narrow body 996 in that they have increased in value over the past 3 years and continue to do so. Even when things level off in the Porsche market, the C4S will no doubt be a more premium 996 model and retain more of it's value. Shopping smart and due diligence with proper PPI/etc is mandatory The 997 continues to drop in market value and I wouldn't consider any 997 unless it was an S or C4S - hands down the 997 C4S is a much more aggressive/visually appealing 997 design and better driving/handling characteristics. I've successfully talked 2 RL 996 NB buyers into spending a little more $$ for the C4S - Both continue to thank me for my input on their purchase decision.

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C4S with a nikasil 3.8 engine rebuild. 996 will be the only 911 model to ever have distinctive non 50's style head lights.

Unless you hate the 996.2 headlights I'd say no. $8k to move up to a 2005 997 sounds too steep to me. I personally prefer the 996 interior over the 997's. And the headlights will grow on you.

The 996 interior in full leather (especially in black or natural) trumps that of the 997 for me. The 997 seems too Audi- or Benz-like; the 991, as well.

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Yes. Err, I mean no. Well, maybe.

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I think you have a good point about the front lights. Years down the road, I could see them being desirable just because they are different from the other 911s. Time will tell.

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Thanks, I thought the 2005 997 had fixed the IMSB issues.

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I like the seal grey, I have not seen one in that color yet for sale. Do you have a different fixed spoiler on the back of yours?

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The 997.1 does have a larger diameter IMSB with a very low failure rate. However, the switch happened sometime during the 2005MY production so some from that year have the smaller bearing of the 996, and some have the larger bearing.

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I do have a different fixed spoiler on it...I'm not exactly sure what "model" or "package" it's from, I thought it was factory but now that I'm looking I don't see it on the dealer spec sheet. I have the spoiler button on the fuse panel but it doesn't do anything, obviously.

Bought an 03 996...liked it a lot...foolishly traded "up" to an 06 997S...found that the brakes and the engine were great but the Sport Chrono was overrated, and I missed the interior of the 996 (much nicer than the 997) and I also preferred the headlights and more unique styling of the 996. After three months I dumped the 997 and went back to a 996.

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I have a teenage son of the same model.

If you look at the rear bumper assembly from the side, the 997 has about a 30-degree slant, whereas the 996 is horizontal. I'd say that's worth 8k right there.

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perhaps but then you still have issues with scored cylinders, which IMO, affects more engines than blown IMSB's and is a much more catastrophic (and $$$$) failure.

m97 still has a IMS and bearings that can fail, bearings don't last forever.

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From my little time in my 997.1S this what I know: Early 3.6 2005 motors have the smaller IMS that can serviced like a 996 All 3.8's have the larger IMS that need the engined cracked open to service it The bigger brakes on the "S" are awesome The PASM suspension is a big plus Sport mode on MT's stiffen the suspension and gives quicker throttle response The chrono stop watch thingy and not having a dipstick stinks Is the added cost worth it? Depending on the options, non-S vs S and interior finishes maybe.

Like many of you on Rennlist, I've read many articles that state the Pinky Lai designed 996 while at first was very much hated by the purists, is now being embraced as the radical bridge into the new generation (i.e. water cooled) of 911s that saved Porsche from otter demise. I predict the 996 will become very valuable in the near future. We're seeing the car at the bottom of the depreciation curve and so it's a great time to buy one in my opinion. If "looks" are the big determining factor, then no one here will be able to convince you one way or the other, because frankly, a car's proper appearance is very subjective. If performance is the priority, then save the money and buy the 996, but if you want the more classic 911 look, then fork out the extra money and buy the 997. Cheers!

Otter Demise Dead-stranded-sea-otter_zpsdwhihwhj.jpg

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I think he meant....Udder Demise

I think he meant Otto demise.

^Otto^ looks like he just got blown...up!

I'm pullin' the plug on this conversation... bwahahahahaha

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If your into the whole comfort thing, I think it's worth it. The interior is nicer. Ergonomics/layout are better. It rides better. And it's newer. When I drive the 996 and 997 back-to-back, the 997 is clearly a more "luxurious" ride. Put a 996 right next to a 997 and you'll see the difference pretty quickly. But, whether it's enough difference for you - well, that's subjective. -td

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I think he meant Denise Otto.

I had an '03 Targa for about 3 years. Honestly, I gradually got more and more annoyed with it. Exterior-wise it's a great looking car. When a couple P-car snobs got on me about the headlights I just laughed and told them I liked em, which I do/ did. Personally I think the interior was dated and I never did get attached to it. Also it squeeked and rattled constantly. Even that was not the biggest thing. The two things that bothered me were A) Having the IMS problem hanging over my head. B)The Targa top. You see the Targa only closes with a mesh screen. Seems minor , but you NEVER get away from the sun. That's pretty hard when you are driving across the desert to Las Vegas, or driving back with a nasty hangover. Seems like a minor thing but like the Chinese torture test it just gradually wears you down. I looked for a replacement part for the mash that was solid but never did find one. Maybe now they have one. The ceramic IMS repair is available now as well and if I had the car still I would make that a number one priority. Overall, aesthetics are an individual taste but IMO the 997.2 is a step up in appearance that is worth taking.

^ the 997.2 is a whole other story. If I had a 997.1 I would be upgrading to one. The engine alone is worth the upgrade and the base 997.2 is 350 hp which is a worth while hp upgrade.

I still don't understand why the 996 interior gets panned - sure, it's nowhere near as luxurious compared to what you'll buy today, but compared to earlier 911's, it's less spartan, far less angular, and looks much less like it was designed by someone whose only design tool was a ruler. While I don't personally favor the design of the 997 interior - back to more straight lines - it's certainly true that the materials were better - and they should be. The 911 has evolved from being a relatively low-production plaything targeted at a very specific market into being a mass-produced luxury vehicle designed to appeal to as many people as possible - so of course the creature comforts continue to get piled on, and the hard-edged plaything for weekend warriors gets wrapped in ever-thicker layers of leather and electronics. The 996 is a simpler machine than the 997 (not necessarily from a mechanical aspect, but from a purely operational perspective) - although my 996 has PSM, it's otherwise an incarnation of the classic sports coupe: an engine, a gearbox with a lever sticking out of it, a seat, a wheel, and a few pedals. Sure, you could get a nav unit in your 996, but in stock form the 996 was spartan. Compared to the 911's sitting on the Porsche lot today, it's a dinosaur, but in a good way.

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I think the quality of the materials is where we took the hit. The early 996s had the vinyl that didn't appear to be as premium. This of course was addressed with the later generations and the leather option. But once a car has a reputation then that's it. Plus the flowing nature of the dash compared to the straight lines bothered the purists. Compared to anything today the dash seems simple but I like that about the car. You can tell it's meant for driving and that's it.

I dare say you should post this in the 997 forum too. You've gotten a lot of replies that would not be echoed there.

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I see she is in the food industry......would love to feed her some beefsteak

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aircooled cabs and targas squeak like crazy - the 993 targa squeaks and rattles too

Honestly, coming from an E46 325i, the interior in my '99 C4 is without question a downgrade, both in terms of quality and styling. I knew what I was getting into, but it's just amusing to me how little interior $75k bought in the Porsche world back then. I'm not even sure that it's better than my family's old '96 MB C220. The 997.1 I test drove felt pretty close to the E46, similarly modern and reasonably high quality (except the fit and finish of the buttons weren't fantastic). 997.2 I think was where the interior made the jump to legit "luxury car" status.

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Fascinating take on this topic Schnelly - please tell me more. Right away, please! Tonight, tomorrow, maybe even Thursday. But, if you can't get back to us until after 12 noon on Friday, well just fahgedaboutit.

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I think you hit on point with the statement above. The 911 has never really had a luxurious interior. Sure the air cooled models looked higher quality but they were never luxurious. In fact they were even more simple but over the years kept adding on buttons and switches to carry out functions the newer cars added. It wasn't until recently that drivers began demanding they be coddled while in the car that Porsche changed things up. Think about the 1980s 911 - a car driven by a lot of the 1980s stereotypical lawyers, doctors, brokers, etc. These guys had to contend with a car that was ONLY available in a manual, had crappy A/C, no power steering, and didn't have a very compliant ride. Yet everyone knew if you wanted a sports car you would have to live with compromises. Now the typical Porsche buyer wouldn't dare consider the car unless it had all of the "luxuries" most other vehicles do.

Porsches early aircooled minimalist interiors were all part of the design just like the engines - 356 oil coolers are the size of a pint of milk. Times change. I think Porsche has kept their design pretty consistent throughout the model years and as the design has crept toward the current models, they have taken into consideration all the bitching and moaning by the aircooled crowd regarding crappy heating & a/c, uncomfortable seats/etc - making the car more user friendly results in more refined design components.

My dad has a 2007 Targa 4S and while the interior is beautiful, I prefer driving my 996. It's more nimble, simpler (less gizmos), and just feels more raw. I would never buy a Porsche 911 as a "luxury car". I am more about the minimalistic approach and care more so about overall driving experience. Plus, I don't think I could own a car without a dipstick

I totally agree BUT I think this topic is very subjective depending on your age - I've been driving Porsches for 35 years. Now at 57, things like getting in and out of car, sitting for long periods of time take a toll and creature comforts are greatly appreciated. I find the 996 interior adequate but can appreciate the newer interior designs.

How did this thread go from Otter Demise to some sort of referendum on interior design?

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I have a 2002 996TT. I have no dip stick. When I jumped from the 99 996 into the turbo. Wow. I would never go back. Perhaps he should take the extra money and not go 997 but 996TT. Just sayin.

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no dipstick and no IMS Just having some fun! Ultimately, I plan to add a 996tt to my stable. Prices are looking pretty good!

997.2 Carreras S will be my next car. Huge bump in horsepower from my 2003 and the interior is something I actually like staring at... For the next few years I'll just keep loving my 2003. It's a fun car to drive and I like looking at it

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I ALMOST pulled the trigger on this one: https://riverside.porschedealer.com/...78989/info.php

That's a nice car. I drove a black one lowered on PSS10's .... However it was 2x the price of my 2003 so I opted to save money and grab the 03' for now