To IMS or not to IMS

That is the question. Or really, when to IMS. Read on. I have a 2001 C4 Cabriolet, 6 speed, 55k miles. I am the 3rd owner. Since I bought the car a few years ago, I have done Blackstone reports every oil change, and also have done a bore scope of the engine (right after I bought it). I decided to wait on the IMS since the failure rate is low, and at some point it would need a clutch, so I might as well wait. All good logic for a long term owner (IMO). The clutch is fine but getting heavier (no slipping) and will need to be done in the next 10-15k miles I suspect. Since I bought my 2022 Model 3 Performance, I have barely touched the 911. I told myself it would never happen, but well, there it is. I also don't have a garage anymore, so doing work myself is a lot more difficult. So I'm thinking about selling the 996. The smart thing to do is get the IMS and AOS done, clutch change, spark plugs, etc which will run about 5k. Or, sell it as is, to someone who knows that work is pending and understands why it's not done yet. Opinions?

I would sell as is. Personally I would rather buy a 996 and have the IMS done myself, rather than have a (possibly questionable) replacement done by the seller. Not every IMS replacement is equal and it also matters if it is done right. (Ask me how I know.)

If you're comfortable taking the hit on the selling price then sell as is. It will probably be the first thing that you will be asked for. Depends on labor rates in your area the whole job may or may not be about $5k. I paid around $4ish about 2 years ago for IMS, clutch and flywheel. This did not include the other things you mentioned so I suspect $5k is very optimistic. I will just say that you will have a much easier time selling the car with those things addressed. It will prevent potential buyers from searching for more things that need work and further knocking down the price. If it was me looking at the car, and I saw that you didn't do the IMS, AOS, clutch, spark plugs and coils I'd be asking myself....ok, how much more will this cost me on top of the car.

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Also, good point. It will depend a lot on the level of documentation you have. Some people have next to nothing while others keep a binder with every receipt + a google drive with photos. <- that's me.

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I'll bite. How do you know?

When I bought my 996, I had the IMS done by the selling shop. 1.5 years later, this replacement grenaded... According to my current shop, the selling shop most likely didn't install it correctly and/or it was a crappy bearing. The takeaway: not all replacement bearings and installing shops are created equal.

If you spend $5k doing the work it's not like you can just magically tack $5k on to your asking price, though of course you could get lucky. My advice would be to sell as-is and answer the question honestly if it comes up.

Skip the IMS itself and just do the bearing prior to selling. GLWS!

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Of course, I'm referring to the IMS bearing. If I had to replace the IMS I'd be screwed.

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Yup, my experience was similar. Seller had the ims replaced, with ln, but his mechanic botched the install and tore the seal or something, causing oil leak. My Indy put it right. It was not cheap.

fwiw hagerty valuation tool knocks off 15% for cars that haven't had IMS bearing remediation and I think a lot of buyers would do about the same. But a good used oil report and honest seller, to me, might be more valuable than an invoice for IMS bearing at an anonymous shop. Reputable shop and LN engi bearing with stickers/documentation might change that. I think it might come out in the wash.

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I went thru a similar situation. I bought an '05 997.1. Did not know if or when the IMS was replaced so I took it in for replacement. IMS had been changed but installed improper. I had the engine rebuilt and now everything is great. Cost me a chunk of money but all good. Live and learn!

as is let buyer do fear factor IMS upgrade or drive it like you stole it and take the risk. Hell 90% chance it will go long time without the BS fear replacement parts train his/hers/its choice New owner will know it was done and done right. Solution or ________ their choice Good luck

Sell it �as is�. Doing any work on your car now is like throwing money away. You�ll only get a small fraction of your money back My condolences on the Tesla

One of the reasons why I bought mine was it had The IMS Solution installed. I’d pay extra for The IMS Solution.

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i have bought and sold several 911s at this point. In most cases the IMS having been replaced is a good incentive to buy your car over others but affects the price very little. I would definitely sell it as is�

My honest thoughts, but you may not like. Sell the Tesla and keep the 996. Tesla will be obsolete in 5 years and the 996 will not.

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He'd have to expect $33K for the car for that to be a reason for spending the money up front, and even at that it would be a wash. I agree with the folks who are advising him to sell as-is.

How is the M3P not boring? Are you fully exercising the throttle pedal on the car? I nearly bought one myself, and it was quite fun, but lacking a manual trans and noise, the only way that car was not boring was when I drove it spiritedly. Whereas the 996 is fun all the time. BTW, my 996 IMSB hasn�t been changed either. It�s a 99 and I am waiting to see if I need a clutch, although the way I drive, I won�t likely need one for another 50k miles.

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As others have said - sell it as-is. When I sold mine a few years ago most people that called and talked to me about it hadn't heard of the IMS and certainly hadn't heard of the IMS Solution that I'd installed. Tesla offers a pretty solid warranty on the batteries, and if you look at the cost per kWH it is trending very quickly downward. In 5-10 years when the warranties are up the prices of the batteries are going to be much more affordable. Cheers Charlie

1/2 the cost on an m96 rebuild

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The 996 is already obsolete in a lot of ways. The Tesla may be superceded, but will not be obsolete. This is my 2nd Tesla. When Covid hit I wasn't commuting, so I sold my Model 3 SR+ and got the 911 I had always dreamed of (well, as close as I could afford anyway). Moved cross country, brought the 911, and recently got the Model 3 Performance. It lacks the feel, the sounds, the sensations of the 911. But it is so, so much faster and more responsive. The 911 in comparison feels slow when I change vehicles. I might still keep both, but the 911 is just sitting there, garageless, and the "free fuel" car is the one I gravitate to every day. It looks cool, it makes nice sounds, but the Tesla does almost everything better, much to my surprise.

Tesla really needs to have a program that synthetically delivers feel and sound. They can imitate shifting, allow for manual �shifts� and a lumpy V8 or a screaming V12 if they wanted to. And before anyone says that�s fake, so is sim racing, but sim racing is awesome and better than an Atari. I agree, my 996 felt ancient and slow after I tested an M3P.

If you're after speed, acceleration and response nothing can compete with an EV at a remotely similar price point. If that's the case sell the 911. Too many things need to happen within an engine and transmission to get you moving. In an EV it's as quick and easy as flipping a light switch. It's near instant. If that's what you're after then you're in a good spot with a Tesla. If you're after a more engaging experience then a 911 is your ticket. I recently listened to a podcast where Gordon Murray was the guest. When they designed their recent cars, the only thing that mattered was the experience. Targets such as 0-60, 0-100, lap time at name your track were simply not an objective. All that is getting played out IMHO and I wonder if other auto makers will ever take this approach. Not holding my breath.

also, there are a lot faster cars, even in the tesla range. Before I got my 911 I had a big turbo RS3. Blows my friends m3p out of the water. But a new model S or model Y would blow the RS3 out of the water. the m3p was designed to be obsolete to sell the model S. It is a fun little people-mover though.

I don�t get all this �designed to be obsolete� talk, given all tech becomes obsolete. Many people already think that an internal combustion engine made in 2022 is already obsolete. None of the appliances in my house are smart or can even adjust their own clocks during a daylight savings time change, and yet, it�s all still useful. A 992 911 with an ICE engine will still be just as useful as a M3P in 10 years, even if many cars are autonomous by then and we have robotic house cleaners. There�s always going to be residual value in old appliances, older vehicles, where the cost of a replacement is not always easily justified or makes sense. Replacing my 12 yr-old $4500 Jen-Air refrigerator with a smart fridge doesn�t make sense to me. Keeping a 996 alive and out of the scrap heap by replacing an IMSB for x$$ can be considered �green� and/or economically efficient if it keeps one from discarding the vehicle and purchasing a new electric car that�s powered by coal. Most of the cost is labor, which is good for Americans. Depends on how many miles driven, but many 996 owners aren�t piling on the mileage anyway.

I agree in every way. I shouldn't say obsolete. what I really meant is that at the time of it's design, the model S already existed and had more straight line speed. not obsolete, just not designed to be the top of the range.

2 Questions. So how much will EV technology change over the next 10 years? Will an EV powered car ever be considered a classic?

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My guess is that batteries will improve 5% per year, and software and tech will improve 10% or more per year. As for motors, suspension, chassis and all that, it should just evolve like everything else. Now, if autonomous vehicles ever take off, and today�s EV fleet cannot do that, EVs will be just another car, nothing that special, except lower TCO and still very good power. Tesla might have an edge here, though, as they already have high powered GPUs for self-driving. Will an EV be considered a classic? Probably. Depends on the EV though. The 1897 hybrid Porsche is probably worth a fortune. The 918 is a hybrid and certainly going to be special. The hybrid 911 will be. The original Tesla roadster is for sure, a classic.

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Check the prices on Tesla Roadsters. I expect that very early VIN number Teslas will be collectible. First year Lucid Air maybe, Rivian maybe. These are ground breaking vehicles, whatever one may think about the practicalities of widespread adoption of the technology.

Here you go, a future classic. Pure EV. Rimac Nevera https://youtu.be/aN64wMLyCuY

OK, I can't believe I am being dragged into this one..... So here is my take. When I first got my Taycan Turbo S, almost 2 years ago, I told the dealer initially, I don't need an EV...I have no where to go cause of COVID. He says...since its your spec its your car for weekend to drive and give it back monday....they will sell no problem. Well, I never gave it back and I handed over my 991 Turbo S (probably the best all round sports car I have ever owned) and never looked back. The car is the future for sure....it take driving and commuting to a whole new level. Where ever I will it to go it goes without any hesitation, downshift, throttle lag or anything. ITs amazing....5 months later the weather got better so I took the lambo out...OMG, what is that racket behind me....the sound caught me off gaurd and for awhile it really bothered me. Then I was so frustrated that the car had throttle response issues when I was doing a pass on the highway and seemed like forever to get in the gap. Couldn't wait to get back in the taycan for the instant crazy torque at any speed. For what it is worth though I am back to enjoying lambo but I now have different expectations and enjoy it for what it is. So what about the 996 (with of course the 400HP 3.8 and dundon Exhaust)? Well, honestly, when one is in the right mood and you want to do a curvy road with three pedals, its just plane fun. The sounds generated by the throttle and my shifts with instand feedback on whether i nails the shift is just what driving is all about. I just love that car....so much so that literally less than a mile from I house i got ticket after the car was stored in the garage for the winter. So what is my conclusion: Lets face it, I am lucky to be able to have cars that are so different with their own virtues. But I have concluded that once you go PDK or some other doubleclutch car, it will be easy to go electric....its an incremental step. However, if its just about driving enjoyment with all your senses stimulated in a viceral way. Its hard to beat a 996 (or even 997) with three pedals on curvy road. To really enjoy a car, you have to be involved in everything and arguably even turn off all of the computer traction crap. YOu wont be the fastest, but you will become the best driver...I get goosebumps just thinking about my drive right before I got pulled over....but make no mistake, electric is the future and will out perform anything that has combustion...we havent even scratched the surface....but they will still bury me in my 996. And lets not forget, my son who is 20, says the only car he wants to inherit is my 996...nice to see he is one of the few youths these days that appreciates drivng.

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Glad you were pulled in...

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Actually, I would argue that for a 20 year old sports car, still very few % of 996 cars actually need a full rebuild. Unlike the average EV, Porsche 996 cars are appreciating; therefore, worth the investment if you truly love the car. For the price of a new Tesla, I would hope their warranties are solid and backed up without any excuses (e.g. sorry sir, that's not included!) or BS when they foul up. I wish that were truly the case Charlie, but with inflation and the cost of manufacturing and more regulations, I don't see it. Charlie, I've used advance batteries technology for my business for more than 25 years. All chemistries. Over time, the cost for the battery technology has continued to climb. Ok, let's put the Tesla variants and Porsche Taycan on hold. Let's face it, those are very expensive EV cars that the average driver can not afford. Now, if you look at more practically priced EV cars like the Chevy Bolt or Nissan leaf, you'll get a clear picture what happens with value. I've talked to the dealers, after the warranty expires, owners dump these electric cars for a substantial loss and it's near about impossible to resell them on the used market because of battery life anxiety. (see picture) What used to be a mid-30s car brand new, now is not worth much more than a golf cart. I'm all for innovation, but the reality is we're still early in the game with just 10% population using some form of EV. I'm not sure if it's fair to compare performance of a Tesla or Taycan to an ICE 911. The explosive acceleration of a Tesla or Tacan is hard to beat with an ICE. Different class of performance. I wouldn't want to put a 911 against a sport motorcycle like the Ninja or Hayabusa either. Cheers people!

Seems like an opportunity for some people to grab an EV at a very low cost. And I think there are some DIY or lower-cost battery options out there. For example, the Tesla powerwall is nearly double the cost of LG battery, which is double the cost of other cheaper 3rd party batteries. I know a guy who built his own battery packs for $200/kwh.

Sell as is. If I was buying I'd rather know the shop that is doing the work is one I have confidence in.

Something to think about. Go to BAT and check out what checked boxes are collecting the best prices. I reference BAT because they get the best prices for sellers and the data is easily collected. The 996 market has become bifurcated as the economy has slowed. Seems low mileage and imsb refresh are constants with higher prices. If the car has higher mileage but has a replaced imsb, it seems to get a higher price than those that haven't been. Folks are starting to figure out that they can get a fully sorted 996 for a cheaper price all in than buying one for even a cheaper price and then having to do the work yourself. As an example, buy a 996 with everything done and sorted for 35-40k (IMSB, AOS, Clutch, brakes, suspension, exhaust,etc) or buying one for 25K and then having to do all of the above which will run you another 25-30k. All in you are looking at 50-55k. Folks are getting smarter. So the question is with your 55k in miles cab, assuming its in incredible shape and you can prove the bores are smooth and scoring free, what do you think you can get for it with and without spending the 5k for the imsb and clutch. Bottom line is the euphoria is gone and the buyer is now more discerning. Anything sells if the price is low enough.

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@danix Sell the porsche, you have already decided. You need not spend money before you sell it. There's 2 kinds of buyers. the first wants a flirtatious dalliance with a 911, they'll drive it for a year, thrash it, and sell it and let someone else deal with the cars potential future, if it has one. They won't pay extra for the money you have spent on the car. the other buyer, is one who's has a desire to drive an older car, a 911, that are passionate about ownership, who are emotionally invested, perhaps foolishly so. That buyer likely realizes that just because the ims is done, the expense of caring for a 20 yr old German sports car is an ongoing thing. And the cost will far exceed the value of the car. I'm sadly in the latter camp and I will say, honestly, I've almost spent as much on restoration and the previous owner's deferred maintenance as I paid for the car. And I've only owned it since late Jan. There's no end in sight of additional expenses either. There's also no flaming rush thank goodness, she's a great driver. So it's just my opinion, but if you have no passion for the car at the moment, get rid of it and let someone else worry about it. If you really do like the idea of old Porsche ownership, and don't need the money right now, garage it and see how you feel about it in a year or so. ​​​​​​​

The batteries will drop in price until the 3rd world countries that provide the lithium realize they have us all by the ***** and replace OPEC.. We are probably 30+ years and several hundred trillion dollars from getting our infrastructure capable of a even 80% EV replacement of ICE.. My model 3SR+ is a great driving car, in its own way its fun, I greatly appreciate the quite on my commute. but its not a apples ot apples comparison to a 911, more like a standard 4 door msport BMW..

Bottom Line is I would sell your Tesla and 996 as is and buy a nice hybrid Porsche sedan or suv so you don't get stranded somewhere in the middle of nowhere with your family. Nobody should be driving fast anyway with their family in the car.

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Comparing a Tesla to a Nissan Leaf would be like me posting prices of used Honda Civics from the early 2000s as evidence that buying a 996 isn't wise. Totally different animal, and these are notorious for battery failure due to poor thermal management. As far as battery prices, I was referring to the cost per kW/h which has been dramatically falling over the last 10 years. To be clear, I'm not arguing the Tesla is better than a 911 - or that they're cheap to own, or that batteries are inexpensive to replace. My own personal experience has been that it is a much better daily driver/commuter car.

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The Nissan was a microcosm for depreciation and resale for more practically priced EVs that are priced closer to the current value of the Porsche 996, not a direct comparison for range or performance of high end EVs like the Teslas, Taycan, etc. IMHO, the average person can not relate to the cost per kW/h, but they can relate to the pains associated with batteries. How many people do you know that actively read their power meters for the house? Very few care about the technical specifics about how power is metered for resale. All they care about is the monthly bill. My sister owned two Toyota Prius cars. She didn't really care about the technical specifics, all she wanted was something reliable and that would cost less for her daily long commutes. While you have a point about the costs of the battery technology becoming more affordable to the manufacturer, the overall costs for the vehicles will continue to climb like everything else. Something radical would have to happen in the market to drive prices down on the dealer lots. That being said, Teslas (and the Taycan) can be great commuters. Who wouldn't want to be driving around in a $100,000+ electric performance car like the Taycan if the prices weren't an issue? But IMHO, those cars are not affordable for the average consumer and probably not the best comparison to a 996 that can be purchased for less than $30,000. The Porsche 911 has a well-established niche owner group that has a lot to do with the company's heritage for the platform. I have demographics on current 911 owners since I started a FB forum over 4 years ago. We have over 4,000 members as of today. Guess what? The average owner is in their 50s. That's something that Porsche has been concerned about for a long time (i.e. dying following for the brand) and probably one reason why they are branching out to other car platforms, not just 2-door sports ICE cars.

I'll chime in here as a prospective 996 owner (coming back as an ex-996 owner.) Personally, and likely I am in the minority, you will have weirdos like me who would rather buy a car that has NOT had its IMS replaced. My reasons are: 1. I don't care about it anymore. I had a beautiful Cobalt blue 04 996 C2 with 60,000km on the clock when I sold it. I rarely drove it because I lived in fear the IMS would go and engine grenade, despite knowing the IMS was replaced by previous owner 2. When I sold the car, PPI report came back by the shop that the IMS was not replaced (despite them not having taken the transmission apart) and that screwed my sale over and I was very mad at the shop who did the PPI. Despite having paper work and speaking to the shop that replaced the IMS, buyer took the word of the shop over mine. I was pissed. 3. I now own a 986 Boxster S with 146,000km on the clock. I replaced it as a preventative measure when my RMS was leaking like crazy, but it had already 132,000km on it when I bought the car. It lasted this long so I convinced myself IMS is the least of my worries. Car had a solid maintenance regimen with every detail and receipt since 2004 and was owned by local PCA members. It is now my dedicated HPDE car and I let the engine sing to 7000rpm during HPDE weekends. I am sure people like me exist out there, but as I said, I am likely in the minority. I always make it a point to educate prospective buyers to look for a car that's well maintained over ones that only had the IMS done. In my search, seeing a car that has had its IMS done adds no value to me and doesn't make it any more desirable. I want the option to decide if I want to replace the IMS or not on my own terms.

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Cost per kW/h in terms of battery packs, not actual energy - sorry I wasn't clear with that one. I want to say I read its dropped from like $1,500 per kW/h for a pack, to below $100. Much faster than anyone anticipated - and with Tesla ramping up global production of batteries (more than doubling worldwide capacity) with their new facility, it should continue to drop. My point about Civics and 996 wasn't about performance but that Teslas, like 996s, are more desirable than the average vehicle and aren't necessarily going to depreciate along the same curve. However, I think we've talked ourself into a circle and for the most part totally agree. The OP wasn't asking which was better or whether or not to sell the 996 - just asking if he should perform an IMS update prior to selling. But, as someone who did sell a 996 and replaced it with a Tesla, I would certainly advocate it in certain life situations - and advise against it in others. I'm definitely going to be buying another ICE vehicle in the future - either another 911 (I'd probably get a 997, 991, or jump back and get a 993), or some mid-2000s Ferrari. But when it comes to selecting a vehicle as a daily driver I'm not sure I'd ever consider anything but electric moving forward.

The right unit is kWh not kW/h....it's a product of power (in kW) multiplied by the time the power is supplied (in hours) yielding work or an amount of energy.. Analogy: You can have 2 horses plow a field in 1 hour and they'll have done work of 2 horsepower x 1 hour=2hphours. Alternatively you can have 1 horse plow the same field in 2hours: 1 horsepower x 2 hours = 2hphours. The work being done is the same in both cases, namely the field has been plowed and the work amounted to 2hphours in both of them. KW/h is Power per hour and is something different and describes a change of power per hour. Another quantityand unit that is often written wrong is (the unit for) torque which is expressed in a force times the length of an arm perpendicular to said force. It's expressed as N�m or Nm or lbs x ft, or lbs�ft, not lbs/ft or ft/lbs as is often written but wrong nonetheless in case a unit of torque is meant. I'll get off my soapbox now and let.you go on with the discussion.

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Thanks for clarifying. I've honestly been a little confused about it. So what you're saying is a 75kwh pack is capable of supplying a constant energy stream of 75kw for an hour? And, when you're charging at let's say 12kw/h you're actually using 12kw continuously but being billed for that rate at an hourly basis?

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In the production business, our Li-ion battery packs are rated by Wh (or mAh) which gives us a rough indication of how much time we have based on the current draw of the equipment we're running.

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The first part of your analogy is true: That is, two horses working a field for 1 hour = 2Hh (i.e. 2 horse hrs), but the second analogy is flawed. You work one horse for two hours on the same field and by the end of the 2nd hour, the horse is dehydrated, falls over dead, and the field is half done. That's reality.

All this EV talk is fantastic. EV is the future, as along as its paired with an ICE engine to charge it. Now that every car manufacturer is now in the EV game and enhancing EV technology, we are now watching the evolution of the car industry to phase 2 of the HYBRID Era. Thru creative destruction, the EV evolution had made itself obsolete due to continued battery limitations and therefore distance. Yes, battery storage will get better, but you still need to charge it. Easiest and cleanest way is to slap a fuel and emissions efficient synthetic fuel powered ICE engine to it. Bring on 250 miles per gallon hybrids that are just as fast and powerful as today's EV cars. Dont believe me? Porsche teams up with Mobil, Siemens, and Chilean and Brazilian companies to manufacture clean synthetic fuel for the future. They then use that fuel for the last 2 years in the Porsche Cup series to test and refine it. Along the way Porsche and Audi decide that they want to get into F1, but only if they will mandate 100% synthetic fuel in 2026. VW corporate then gets rid of their CEO and replaces him with Porsche's CEO of which the focus of Porsche and Audi are now on hybrids. Funny how last year I got my Audis serviced and the dealership was discussing all EV by 2026. Now the talk is EV powered hybrids. Volvo just rolled out a major campaign on their EV powered hybrids discussing the added benefit and safety of having a hybrid versus a pure EV in your travels. So the point is this, yep electric is trendy, heart warming, exciting with the constant power and speed, but it's already obsolete. Bring on the synthetic fuel driven turbo hybrids. That's not only the environmental, infrastructure and practical solution to a world dominated by ICE power, but it's also the performance solution. No, I am not anti pure electric car. I love it. I just recognize a laser disk player when I see one. ADD: the direction of the car industry ensures that ICE power will be around long into the future. It also make sure the 996 will be enjoyed long into the future. Go long dual hybrid power and short mono EV power. Maintain positions in 996 ICE power.

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The question I have is: �what percentage of drivers (in the U.S.) need to have more range than about 250-300 miles per day? The answer might explain whether or not hybrid is really the future or if pure electric only will work. I do think hybrid is better, because it�s a dual-fuel solution, and I don�t like single-threaded energy solutions for the future. Having more than one fuel source is good. I�d like to see a very small ICE engine added to an EV to help prevent someone getting stranded somewhere.

Dupe.

Good question Mike. I would bet more than we think. At the end of the day, practicality wins. 300-350 miles a charge and all of the inconvenience with the battery recharge Or 250 miles per gallon on a 15 gallon tank after 3,750 miles with the same performance as the EV. Which one looks better to anybody buying a new car? It's a no brainer whether you drive to get groceries or to your next meeting 300 miles away in Michigan. Not to mention, which one will solve the environmental problems more effectively. Who cares if you have to pay $20 a gallon for synthetic fuel thats clean, if you get 250 miles to the gallon.

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75kW for an hour, correct (and 150kW for half an hour and so forth, although there is a limit, denoted by C for each battery. 10C meaning a max of 750kW for 6 minutes). Re '12kw/h' short answer: yes, that's probably how it is meant (by the providers of charging points?) or how you could understand it. But the units are not correct. It should be, for example, 10 USD/h@12kW (and something less than 5 USD/hr when charging at 6kW). HTH. ETA: The unit kW, kilowatt, has the 'per unit of time' already incorporated into it, as 1 Watt equals 1 Joule per second. 1 joule is an amount of energy (like 1 calorie is). In that sense it's similar to 'knot' to express speed. 1 knot equals one nautical mile per hour. Just like you wouldn't speak of 1 knot/h to express speed, kW/h isn't correct to express a charging rate (or charging speed). Only kW is.

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250 miles per gallon sounds great! Is that EV/battery + ICE with modern fuels, some type of tiny nuclear system, hydrogen, or something else?

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Hah! EV+Battery+ICE. Could be synthetic fuel or petrol. If its up to Porsche and all of the oil Partners in F1, it may be with with synthetic fuel. Its another revenue stream that assures their future. Alot of us forget that the Porsche 918 got 100 mpg in its hybrid mode. Technology on both ev and ice have come along way since then and will go much further over the next few years. It's not a matter of if, but when.

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Yeah, I guess it�s also important to note that ICE efficiency used to be 20, 25% not long ago, and we�re seeing 40, 45, close to 50% these days. Next up: road trains with smart cars where one car leads the pack and they take turns like they do in bicycle racing!

I am waiting to see when all the knuckleheads that think ev power is more environmentally friendly wake up and realize the damage that is being done to the third world's landscape and all of the pollution, land and water that is being contaminated with the mining of the resources to build these freeking inefficient batteries to move these overweight cars to and from soccer games. But I digress....

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Oh great, the EV/human centipede. Are Tesla�s in the front or back?

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In the front going downhill to charge the batteries, but after that, not sure!

Well, Dodge is doing just that

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Thanks! It finally makes sense to me.

I am the original owner of a 997/2006 911 S (6 speed manual /black exterior black interior /black piano wood/graphite trim in headlights/ suede headliner/ with about 61k miles.) The car looks to have had an intermix about 4 years ago when I had a new clutch done and has not been driven since. Looking for thoughts and advice on if I should sell as is or keep the car. Thank you for your thought sand advice in advance.

I am the original owner of a 997/2006 911 S (6 speed manual /black exterior black interior /black piano wood/graphite trim in headlights/ suede headliner/ with about 61k miles.) The car looks to have had an intermix about 4 years ago when I had a new clutch done and has not been driven since. Looking for thoughts and advice on if I should sell as is or keep the car. Thank you for your thought sand advice in advance.

Quotes source post: 18366419

If you had intermix and never cleared/flushed the lines out, this could get real expensive.

Quotes source post: 18307396

Not to mention the life of the battery and the cost ($26K) to replace them.