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YOUR RESEARCH996 Built Engines
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fitting
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The misfire issue turned out to be the fitting on the ack of my UAOS breaking off!
Leading evidence: 'fitting' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'fitting' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check dyno thread' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Porsche was in there with a V8 eventually, but for most of the time, it was the odd man out because it used a 4-liter six-cylinder boxer.
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Out of curiosity, I checked Nien's ebay link that you posted and I also looked at their website as I have never heard of them before.
Replace are how fsi engines are sold, and supported
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The only thing that has changed are how FSI engines are sold, and supported.
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Porsche was in there with a V8 eventually, but for most of the time, it was the odd man out because it used a 4-liter six-cylinder boxer.
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Suggestion
Boost is more here because I was accelerating when I took the picture , the one above I had already started to let go, Dont need an idiot to not look and change lanes .!
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Sorry to hear about your engine, best of luck getting it fixed.
Hey All,
I was wondering who is still building M96.01 engines. It seems as though most shops aren�t tanking orders right now. I did find a shop through eBay called Nein Lives Parts that appears to do a solid rebuild. Does anyone on here have any experience with them? Here is the link.
I am located in Philadelphia, PA.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185362079490?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=45X0miP2SjG&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=hmnz9mvwqmg&var=&widget_ver=arte mis&media=COPY
Thanks in Advance!
I don�t know but I got a factory short block from Porsche for quite a bit less than I could have had mine rebuilt. Might want to take that into consideration. I had the short block in less than a week.
Very sorry about the intermix. Love to hear more about car and what you find. Plenty of options, but yep, challenging times with supply chains. Fingers crossed for you.
Sorry to hear about your engine, best of luck getting it fixed. Saying what part of the country you are in might help. I know a couple shops that rebuild in Seattle, but I don't know their specific parts availability or timeline right now.
That's my thread. I'm 20 minutes outside Philly. I chose Bodymotion in Ocean Township. OP - I compiled a list of builders within the area in Excel. If you'd like this file, let me know.
Though FSI hasn't been accepting new builds since January (when the old program ended)I do see there's a trio of Stage II 3.8L engines in the assembly queue now for the new program which will kick off (without any wait times) in early 2023.
Of these one each of M96.01/02/04 are all being built to Stage II specs with all the options included.
While there's no more wait lists and commitments, if interested it is a good idea to get on the notification list at FSI. Doing this will alert you when an engine of your designation is completed, and you can review all the data, photos and history of the engine with extreme detail. We will only make notifications once an engine is crated and ready to be sent to your closest FSI/ LN Certified Installer, so the engine could be in hand within one week (rather than 20 months!).
Since the OP is in Pennsylvania, this CFI would be Specialty Cars in Allentown PA. Specialty Cars has gained our Platinum Level Certification since joining the program in 2012, when they completed all their training classes. They have had flawless results with our program, installing 6 FSI engines in the last year alone.
FYI- the FSI program changed and LN is now the Exclusive distributor/ supporter of FSI engines. This was done so FSI would never face issues where a lack of components could lead to a missed delivery date, or a missed budget. With the new program each engine will cost a different amount, but all come with all options as a top shelf, non- mass produced unit, still built by a single assigned builder. The only thing that has changed are how FSI engines are sold, and supported.
Fore details submit a ticket at
www.flat6innovations.com
LN/ FSI has the biggest stock of M9X engine components in the USA. We do have parts, and are manufacturing many of the harder to find parts in house to remedy the parts supply issues that others have been crippled by. Some items are in shorter supply, so the FSI engine volume has been slashed, but performance has increased through development.
I had a flat 6 innovations stage 2 4.0 motor built with the old program where I ship my car to Georgia over last winter. FSI is the company to work with in my opinion ( LN Engineering Now ) they have the most experience with these motors and make a great product. My motor is transformed to what I had wished the car would be when I first got it. The 3.6 motor stock is a fun motor however just felt a bit under powered to me. A 996 with an FSI motor is a perfect combination in my opinion. Nikasil cylinders is a must in my opinion as I do not want to worry about bore scoring. If there is any way to get on their list and wait to get one I would do it. If I could find a roller and had the money I would love to have one of their R motors as well... Maybe some day.
I've got a Stage II track performer 3.8l (built from a 2000 M96/04 3.4l). I've got around 20k miles on it (since 2018/19) and I'm super happy with it. My impressions/experiences with the build were documented in thread here.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-critique.html
Unfortunately, I think the thread turned out with more of a negative bent than I intended... Also, I believe my build was the initial impetus for Jake to re-think his build model. All this being said, my experience with the build itself (sans shipping problems) has been nothing short of amazing. Plenty of smooth, worry-free power ( 306 whp on the dyno with around 285 max torque @6500 rpm). I've since added an IPD plenum with the 80mm GT3 TB, and 997 3.8l airbox and a more aggressive tune per FSI (from the tuner as part of the Stage II build). I haven't had it dyno'ed again so I can vouch for any more power gains - suffice it to say that the 60 whp difference between it and the stock engine is Night & Day... This engine really makes the car. Jake, Judd and the rest of the crew at FSI were a pleasure to work with.
Yes
Same guys will still be at FSI, except for Jud who will move to LN Engineering.
Customers will deal with Jud at LN instead of Jud and Jake at FSI.
Engines will be built and sold through LN.
No more customer's being able to choose this and that with their engines.
They will have to go with FSI spec as-is.(Not a bad thing IMHO)
I can't imaging anyone not choosing all the available options unless they're on a REALLY tight budget.
No more shipping entire car to FSI.
You will no go through a certified local-ish installer.
I actually have read your thread that you are referring to. I read that before initially calling Jake, that review got me thinking that I may want to work with those guys. So thanks for posting that, nice write up. They did not disappoint at all! Glad to hear of someone with one of their motors with some actual mileage on it! I have 4750 miles so far on mine as this is my first season with it. My driving this season was derailed by hitting a deer this spring and fighting a cold start misfire issue. The misfire issue turned out to be the fitting on the ack of my UAOS breaking off! If those events had not happened I would likely have been to 6k or more by now. I hope to put a good 6-8 k on next summer. Keep on enjoying the car!
We are currently working through a bit of a merger. This will not be complete until FSI works off all their backlog which will be complete in June 0f 2023. Mr. Raby tagged the line for new engine sales in January of 2022 and no engines have been sold since.
Mr. Raby will become the developer at LN and will still oversee the same employees that are building engines the same way that they always have. All the changes are being limited to the sales and support of engine orders only. The engines will all receive the full monty of developments, they won't be cookie cutter, and they still won't be mass produced. One builder will be assigned per engine, just like always.
The main difference is Mr. Raby will only be in the background working with the machines that he loves. He won't be doing sales, support or having any contact with purchasers. The exception to this will be special projects that I expect he will select from applicants, and work directly with them and still accept their cars. I'd guess this will be limited to 4-6 builds per year at maximum that he will perform from start to finish personally. I expect these will only be R- Series engines with totally open checkbooks behind them, and only offered to what Mr. Raby refers to as "like minded individuals" that he knows he can just be brutally direct with.
While the rest of the FSI crew is busy keeping the remaining scheduled builds on- time for completion, Mr. Raby has been working on his M9X Performance Book, as well as doing a ton of intake system development that will be included in the book, as he creates 1/2 dozen new products for LN. He has started building the first engines for the new program himself, completing one every few weeks. I expect the first of these to be offered just after the first of the coming year via the notification list.
Engines will not be held in stock, the demand for them is too great for that. I was looking this morning, and with zero advertisement we already have 13 people in the pre- qualified notification list for M96.01 engines, and 18 for M97.01 engines. He finished an Aircooled engine back in July and when Jud posted it to the Aircooled notification list it was gone in something like 12 minutes or so.
All FSI engines will be Stage II or greater. No more Stage Is or Stockers. No more committed "queue". No more backlog. No more deposits. No more dealing with shipping cars in and out. No more worrying about missed dates, or blown budgets. Engines will be completed and crated before being handed to Jud at LN to be sold. Each engine will cost a different amount, and how fast someone can react to pull the trigger will determine how long they'll be waiting for an engine.
The reach of Flat 6 Innovations Certified Installers is being greatly expanded, with a couple dozen new installers being trained at this time. The current installers dating back to 2012 are going through new training on the program, and they are being empowered with the full potential of FSI organization to manage engine removals, replacement, and testing. Jud will act as the liaison between the Certified Installer and the engine purchaser. He will be on the phone with them during the first start and through testing, as well as for all follow up with the vehicle owner. Jud has been doing this work at FSI for a decade, so he is basically just moving his place of employment.
I spoke to Jake last week, and he is sending out a memo in a few days about all of this. I'll see if I can post it here.
The biggest difference with the changes is there will be no more Jake, unless you can somehow break in behind his iron curtain. I would suggest that no one try that, he is seriously done with humans! He is very happy to be moving on and is excited to be finishing his M9X Performance Book, as well as creating all the new LN products. We will have at least a dozen FSI products in the system at LN by next spring. These are things that FSI hlready developed, but would not sell outside of an engine. The new intake system is going to change everything.
Well...this kind of changes things a little for me. I have a 2 year timeline (mostly funding acquisition as well as solidifying potential part spec) and if staying with the M96 engine, sending in my X51 engine. Although, I haven't seen any feedback from somebody with an X51 sending in their engine for a Raby motor and the kind of results it got...so that was also going to be part of my decison process or going with a Mezger. Nowthat seems to be no longer an available option since there's no longer going to be motors to be sent in or anybody to talk to in that regard...
The only cars that Mr. Raby will consider receiving are cars like yours. Special edition cars, GT2/ GT3s and X50 Turbos. Submit an application and it might strike his fancy. Very few of these will be taken on, though and the jobs that he does accept he plans to be the only person that the customer deals with from A-Z during the process.
There's 3 different X51 based engines at FSI now. There's a rare 3.4 X51 from Australia that's being taken to an R38, a 3.6 X51 that's being built to a Stage II 4.0 and Jake is currently assembling a 997.1 X51 into an R43 for a Canadian purchaser. Here's a pic of the 997 X51 as a long block in Jake's clean room a few days back. There's 5-6 more X51 variants on the remaining backlog between now and June of 2023 before the "EOL" or End Of the Line. They do a ton of them.
I paid way too much for a wrecked car. The issue is there were only 1100 of these cars shipped to north america. There were about 4300 sold world wide for mk2. There r some mk1 in row. To get a just a motor it would probably have to come from the other side of the pond. The issue is it takes way more then just the motor.
I have seen 2 gt3s in copart in 4 years. Timing and liquid cash will get u a donor car and give u the only resonable chance to do the mezger swap ecomomically.
As a side note the turbo motor is a mezger but many or the internals r different. U cant remove the turbos and expect a gt3 motor.
Give your local P-dealer parts dept a call and see of you can source one from the factory. The question has come up since the 996 Clubsport rollout. But cost may be prohibitive unless you have a huge wallet.
Yeah the heads would need addition work and cams amongst other things. It would basically just be a mezger block that would then have to be rebuilt to GT3 spec... again blowing any semblance of a reasonable budget
and at that point why bother.
Yep.
But the good news there are options. Just comes down to what you want, if you have wrenching skills or not, how much you are willing to spend to get what you want, and then who you want to do it.
Cool, but I would expect that you would need to put another $20-$35K into it for a rebuild, assuming it already has track time on it. It doesn't take many hours to run a motor down.
Then, as De-Jeeper pointed out, there is the transaxle and a number of other components needed for the swap. Long term you probably be better off just buying a GT3, which is a better value.
Some guys like to play the "what if" game. I sure would like a cup engine in my car. But I would not like the cost to make it work, nor the rebuild costs.
My indy had one, we talked about it in april. Then we both came to our senses after a euphoric moment. It recently went up for sale on BAT and didnt hit the magical number. He probably still has it if anyone is interested. 996 cup. You can find it on BAT.
if my engine was blown. I would buy this car and selling the car as a roller or talking to my mechanic about using it for spare parts and get money out of it every time something is used. I have never driven an los swap but I bet it would be pretty cool.
Wrap in blue. Ls set up probably for same money or less than an FSI engine.
Sure would be fun to try it out. Curious about the powerband. My WAG is an extra 100 hp is all our car needs on the track to be competitive with the newer higher hp cars. An extra 150 may be useable on a big track with long straights, but may be overkill on a 2 mile long track. Gotta be a linear delivery of power because we don't have the modern day electronics in a 996 to manage 150 extra hp without driver skill.
I got mine rebuilt earlier this year at a place called 9xx Motors in Southern California. It's been 6 months and 4K miles and so far so good. I know that's not close to you but if you have to ship the engine anyway it may not matter much. He's a factory trained Porsche tech and specializes in Porsche rebuilds.
Another user did this spreadsheet ~2 years ago. You might find it helpful:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...9Ks/edit#gid=0
Alex at 9xx is super cool. His costs are reasonable and he�s well taught off. He also at least last time I spoke to him was giving a one year warranty. I�m done with my fast and furious days so I don�t track my cars anymore. However going on super spirited drives, getting on Interstate 10 with 6 available lanes triple digits happen all the time. Check these two pics from yesterday in my turbo.
I wish the same way we have Texas tioll where you buy a sticker and use a lane, we would have Texas fast and pay a toll to go all out, I�ll be a customer for the two p cars.
Boost is more here because I was accelerating when I took the picture , the one above I had already started to let go, Dont need an idiot to not look and change lanes .!
Yep. Good to see. Would love to see the 996 GT3 numbers. Still not sold on the Honda 4 banger. Doubt it's useable on the track. Question is what LS makes the most sense for the 996 and what set-up. Lot of guys seem to have done a swap. Doesn't look like many track it. But I bet they are out there.
I don't want to sidetrack the thread but I do want to point you in a direction that may be helpful
@kondata17
is running an LS based setup on what I believe principally is a track car. You can find a video or 2 in the track pics/vid thread.
To the OP, may want to keep the below on your radar.
Body motion
Autometrics
BGB
The real issue with the ls v8 engine is the high center of gravity..not the power ...
The main reason Porsche has stayed with the flat six in the 911 is the low center of gravity...you can't get that with an in-line or V engine, just isn't possible...
Take any in-line or V engine of the same weight as a flat six and mount them on a stand at center line of the crankshaft and weigh the 4 legs, then turn the engine vertical and re-measure,the weight, you will see the difference in center of gravity.. In-lines and V's are "top heavy" compared to flat six..
And that is in the "Porsche Spirit".... good handling characteristics and well balanced are the primary importance above brute power....
Maybe you're right. I am pretty well in-tune with the handling characteristics of my car, I'll find out pretty quickly if the handling characteristics and balance are upset. I will say though, A 911 is anything but well balanced, in my car currently 63.6% of the weight is on the rear tires. The imbalance is inherent to the chassis and driving the car fast is to take advantage of the benefits the imbalance gives (rear grip) while managing to maximize the disadvantages (understeer). I don't see a center of gravity change any differently, but I would much prefer to manage it with another 100HP at every point in the RPM range.
I am not sold on swapping an LS or Honda 4 banger into a 996 for many reasons. Would prefer a rebuilt m96. However, I would consider a 996 gt3 mezger swap, but at the end of the day, the cost would be crazy silly and i wouldnt get the performance i wanted from it without a rebuild and more cost.
I'll dance with the girl I came to the party with.
But to make real power you need to throw turbos etc. at it, some of which is inevitably going to raise the CG. Although I guess one could keep it pretty much in the Porsche turbo realm, so, yeah. And the aftermarket support for that platform is right up there with the Honda world.
The CG of an stock 2018 GT2RS is 18 inches, not sure what the CG of a stock 996.1 or 996.2 is but I think adding an LS V8 would easily raise the CG at least an inch in the rear...
Would be like setting the rear ride height an inch higher to get more power, would hurt on the corners but would help on the straights...low is fast in the corners...
I’ll be sharing lots of data to put the -it’s going to be slower in the corners- to the test.
I think the statement above is going to be proven false but hey, I’ve been wrong before.
in my opinion all the extra torque and hp Is more than going to compensate for the loss of drag coefficient. I can care less because I�ll be accelerating on a straight line super highway. Out of this bullsht of high cost m96/97 rebuild more ls swap shops will be coming into play. Welcome to the outlaw 996
world.
LOL ,,,Center of Gravity is different from Drag Coefficient ( deep in the bottle already?) , but I'm glad Zbomb has an Engineer that agrees, he will need the help to defy gravity...lol
I do hope the engine swaps become less expensive and much more thorough , they have been doing them for over a decade now, Renegade was the first I believe...But don't kid your self as to how nice they are, there is some ratty ones that are inexpensive and will be some nice ones that will cost a pretty penny..
yeah I was watching Jalen Hurts in MNF, yes I had a few Turkey 101s, and IPAs, plus I was finishing the gravy, pasta, and baking the garlic bread for dinner. Yes I know the difference between drag and center of gravity. The blue wrap car seems like a well done swap, I would personally would like to see some and get myself educated in the lsx motors because I don�t know much about them. That blue one was
on a Facebook post and the posted price said $39,999. Anyway it ends today on pcarmarket. That number seems high to me, I would think $20k for engine and swap and $10k rest of the car at most. So $30k for the car, which is what I was saying about a FSI engine. Unfortunately I already have 5
cars no garage space, right now it�s not the right time to buy a house, they still have more to fall in price, and my mechanic will not be finished with his new shop till the end of the year. I already talked to him about storing a car over there. He was working for Tony callas at Sebring the last two weeks.
I wonder how much the difference in twisting torque makes in the handling? A horizontally opposed motor does applies balanced twisting forces through the crankshaft, whereas other engine layouts do not. An extreme example by way of explanation:
What you see here is not due to the engine (probably) being a V8 but due to it being mounted in the front driving the rear wheels. A flat six in the same configuration would result in the same twisting. Even an electric motor or jet turbine both without primary and secondary imbalance (that's what you're trying to say I think, as a difference between V8 and H6 (I6 and V12 too) engines) would twist the car in the same way.
i was discussing with my wife cousin how Dak Prescott wasn�t going to do a damn thing for the Cowboys and I was telling him that the Cowboys needed to get a guy like hurts, off course he said no. I said dude Tony Romo was a great quarterback and probably one of the most intelligent ones in the game. If you watch the games he calls on tv, he calls most of the plays before they happen. Been a cowboys fan since I was
8 years old. Been to many games, including the aikman 1-15 season where fans where wearing paper sacks on their heads. The eagles are going to fly all over the cowboys this season.
go to the thread read everything about this car and look what It sold for. This car has 1hp per 7 lbs and it�s reliable, this is turned key. Our cars are 1 hp per 9-10 lbs of weigh and they may be blow off, intermix, d chunk, being oil starved any minute. How much it cost to solve all those problem areas a lot more than this. Check it out.
I would have bought it in a minute with enough garage space,
Yes.
I want to build a car that approaches modern Cup car performance that has an operating cost that is a fraction of any generation Cup car.
I want to be able to produce a formula that is repeatable to others if they want to build a car that will pretty much destroy anything they ever happen to run across on track. In a 20 something year old car that happens to be the 911 that everybody hates.
Thanks, but no thanks. I have no interest in Chevy powered Porsches nor any interest in reading about them.
Interesting. I have followed your 996 adventures in the past and when I saw your post in this thread, I was concerned that you had some type of engine failure. What HP and torque numbers are you expecting out of your LS engine?
Thanks for following the build, I don't want to be pointed at as a major contributor to driving this thread OT, happy to answer any questions you have in my thread and the post below answers your question.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341777
I'd love to see if a built FA24 Subaru would work in a 996. It showed impressive power (for a non-sporting grocery getter) even in that boat that is the Accent. Or even a EZ36 - I loved my 3.6R Outback.
Hi Jerry. I'm from the greater Philly area, too. How about that Eagles game last night? Go Birds!!! HAHA
Out of curiosity, I checked Nien's ebay link that you posted and I also looked at their website as I have never heard of them before. Personally, I'd be leery about doing business with them as they seem to be a very new business with very little details available about their engine builds. It appears as though their website is still under construction and from my quick search, I do not see any feedback on their Ebay store related to their 996 engine builds. I would not want to pay $19K to be one of their beta testers.
Good point, I'll check out your thread.
For insight into the flat six vs LS handling/CG debate, look no further than the Daytona Prototype Class. The Class was limited to specific chassis types and 500HP for years,, the sole flat 6 against V8's from GM, Ford, BMW, and Lexus...The flat 6 was eventually pencil whipped bad enough untill Porsche has to use the Cayenne V8 to stay in the Class....( France Family MO ) ..
a quote :: “In my opinion, the best years of DP was when we had 5-liter V8s from GM, Ford, BMW and Lexus. Porsche was in there with a V8 eventually, but for most of the time, it was the odd man out because it used a 4-liter six-cylinder boxer.
“That was the hardest thing to balance. Before it was all about the V8s, guys used to complain all the time. We were pleased when almost everyone was using V8s because you could show them a dyno sheet with everybody’s numbers on it and graphs and say, ‘pick yours’ – and nobody could. That’s how good it was. To be successful was all down to tuning the car and the guy driving it, which was the whole idea in the first place.”
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
