Shifting issue, advice needed

I've noticed an infrequent shifting issue on my '99 C2 manual. Now and then, when I upshift to second, it's just not in gear - the car acts like it's in neutral when I let the clutch out and give it gas. There is no pop-out, but I shift back to neutral and then put it in second and it's fine. My indy noticed one of the shift cables was not completely attached to the trans when he did the IMS and clutch, so I was hoping that sorted it out. However, it's happened a handful of times since. Verified this morning that the cable is still properly attached and hadn't slipped off again. This afternoon, I was downshifting from 4th to 2nd in preparation for a turn. Clutch pedal is all the way to the floor, right foot on the break, prepared to give it some gas to match revs before I let the clutch out and turn, and I get some grinding when I try to shift into second (note, clutch pedal is still on the floor). I didn't try to force it, so I shifted back to neutral and then it went into second fine. My initial thought is to change the tranny fluid. Possible cheap fix, right? Car has 72k miles on it, and I'm willing to bet it's the original fluid since the maintenance schedule I have specifies a change at 90k. Next thought might be to install the gbox 2nd gear detent. Worse thoughts - syncro is going bad? Shifter cables need to be replaced? I'd like to attack this from the right angle instead of just throwing parts at it.

Just a hunch but there is bracket that holds the shift cables and it's pretty flimsy and doesn't hold the cables in place. Most indys just zip-tie the cables to the bracket to make sure they don't come out. That may be your problem. I had a picture of it but it's not on my new phone.

Very strange. It sounds like the mechanics of the shift just aren't happening correctly. When you shift to second and it is "just not in gear" does the shift **** stay in the down-left position where 2nd gear should be? A note on the GBox 2nd gear detent: If you have damaged synchros already, the 2nd gear detent isn't going to help you. The damage has already happened and will require the transmission to be opened. The detent is made in order to prevent synchro damage from the pop-out that has been reported. That being said, it is a cheap and easy mod once you get things figured out.

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You mean where the cables actually attach to the tranny, right? They were still correctly attached this morning after the problem resurfaced over the last few days. When it doesn't go into 2nd, the shifter stays down-left where it should. No pop-out at all. It's in the right spot, but the car is not in gear. I did research on the gbox - some folks say that the shift feels more exact after installing it. Given that something mechanically incorrect is happening, and it's related to 2nd gear, I thought it might be worth mentioning. Of course if the synchro is already shot then it wouldn't solve my problems...

Interesting scenario you have here. Have you checked to make sure the cables are properly secured in the center console? A little DIY diagram can't hurt, if you want to take a peek: Center Console Images

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That's an interesting idea. The symptoms fit a cable issue so why not check the other end. I'll have to make some time to do that. Is it obvious when the cables are properly attached at the shifter end? The photos on the pdf are pretty small so not much to go off of there.

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What you mean to say is 'they look like they are properly attached' but in fact they have a lot of play during shifting. Just zip tie that biatch to hold it in place securely. I had a problem shifting into reverse a long time ago and the culprit was exactly this.

This is a 15+ year old car and if the gear oil has never been changed, that's a good starting point. Sagging engine mounts also contribute to shifting problems. The problem being off and on (at least that's what I gather from OP's comments) makes me believe that the problem is caused by dynamic (stuff moving around) loads, so engine mounts may be the culprit. Your shifter assembly is pretty "static"; ie. it can be loose, tight or in-between but components don't move relative to each other while driving.. I recall that the accuracy of the shifts on my '00 996 C2 (gone but not forgotten..) improved after replacing the motor mounts.

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More or less. It's a random bad shift here and there. Not even 1 a day, if I'm driving the car the whole day (which I don't do every day).

A few other ideas to check, not just motor mounts but transmission too. As stated above our cars are getting older and more miles. I had one of my shifter cables break and that's a pain in the a** to replace with transmission still in, but can be done. Just some more ideas for you, hope it helps.

My shifter was feeling a little "loose", for lack of a better term. Suspected motor mounts, but they were fine. Transmission mount was shot. Made a nice difference.

When you say the cables look like they are attached to the tranny. Are you looking at the cable ends or the sheath ends? The sheath ends are what slips out of the clip. See the first pic where the sheath is slipping out. Wire ties can be added to keep them locked in.

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You can change the fluid if you want. It is not due based what Porsche recommends but it is close. It can't hurt but I don't think it will help. I'm not sure how cables can not be completely attached yet the shifting work. From what I recall the connections are not something that can be half connected. Either they are secure or they come apart and the cable is loose and the shifting just doesn't happen at all. If you have not had it done in a while have the brake and clutch fluid flushed then bled. I have found letting this go can cause clutch and shifting issues. Braking was unaffected before the flush and not improved after but clutch action and shifting action afterwards were like night and day compared to what they were before the the flush/bleed.

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I'm not sure either how they could be partially attached. Unfortunately I didn't see it, my indy took care of it while doing IMS. I think my plan of attack will be: double check both cable ends to make sure they are properly secured. Trany fluid - it's assumed to be 16 years old at this point, even if the mileage isn't quite where replacement is recommended. Probably brake and clutch fluid as well, and given the uncertain maintenance history (car came from a dealer lot with no history), that helps give me a service baseline anyways. Then see how it is. If the problem persists then we go deeper. Thanks for all the tips. Will update when I have something. I probably won't have time to tear apart the center console to look at the cable ends until the weekend or next week.

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If you are handy and want to DIY it, give the detent a try. Based on your description and my own experience, I suspect your syncro though. As my Indy explained it to me, the detent issue lets it go into gear but then it pops out. In my case (and it sounds like yours), it's not actually making it into gear properly. If it is the synchro, it will continue to progressively get more frequent. For us it's been going on for years (maybe 5k miles or so, I forget really), but it was only common when it was cold in the winter. Once it warmed up or in warmer weather it was fine. Then it started randomly doing it in warmer weather too, but it took me awhile to stop blaming my own shifting since I don't drive a manual that much any more. Now I can go through a day (20 miles or so) without an issue, but others will complain every time I go up or down to 2nd. I haven't been in any specific rush to get it fixed, but I'll finally be getting it done here soon. Without pulling it up I think my Indy quoted me about $4500 for the job which when I poked around earlier this year seemed to be in the ball park for what others reported.

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See post 2, see post 7, see the first pic in post 12. If the sheath starts moving in the trans clip he will have missed shifts even if the ends are attached at the console and trans. When the sheath does pop out he will not have that set of gears available.

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A tranny/diff fluid change can't hurt. For my 2002 Boxster with its 5-speed it is about the least expensive service there is. Fluid and 0.3 hour labor. Often the dealer gives me a break on the fluid price, too. Once I got it for $5/liter when the dealer and some extra left over from warranty work. Be sure you have or do both the brake fluid and the clutch fluid flush/bleed. As I touched upon earlier I was having problems with my Boxster, getting the car to move off from a stop smoothly, and shifting almost always seemed to involve some minor crunching of the gears. This was quite contrary to the way the clutch worked before and the shifting worked before. However, with I can't recall the mileage now but close to 280K miles on the original clutch and transmission -- albeit with fluid changed at the scheduled intervals -- I just kind of believed the clutch -- and maybe even the transmission -- was just wearing out. At the dealer to discuss perhaps booking the car in for a clutch job the SM looked up when I last had the car in for a brake/clutch fluid flush/bleed and noted it was 2.5 years earlier. I'm thinking how much difference can a half a year make? I mean the schedule is every 2 years so another 0.5 year? But a fluid service is cheaper than a clutch and I'm willing to throw some money at a fluid service if there is a chance it stops me from doing something more expensive. Thankfully the fluid service cured the clutch and shifting ills. Be sure the shifting linkage is ok. I guess it can be marginal and could affect shifting action rather than just one losing shifting altogether. Have the tranny/diff fluid replaced. It is close to being due and many techs advise changing this fluid before the IIRC 90K miles at which the factory schedule calls for its change. But then have that brake/clutch fluid flush/bleed done. See how this affects or doesn't affect the clutch/shifting action before you move on to more involved servicing/repairs.

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280k miles on the original clutch? Wow. Or is that a typo? Yes, the Porsche specs are 90k miles on tranny fluid change, according to the docs I have. Agreed with your feelings on fluids - it's usually a great and inexpensive place to start.

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How much is a zip tie? Like 20 cents?

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I'm on a tight budget, I'll have to see if I can make the numbers work on the zip tie. But yes, that will be taken care of as well.

Ok, I have see a glimps of this B&M plate before but no one knows what it is... can anyone ID it and tell me more about it?

It's a short shifter.

I know its a short shifter... I would like more info on it... I cant find a thing on the B&M site... I have the B&M shifter in the counsel, I curios to what this one does?

It decreases the leverage, which shortens the throw. It's adjustable (multiple holes). If you already have the B&M shifter in the console, this one will make the shifts even shorter. Not sure if it's a good idea. http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...xperience.html

Exactly what i needed! Thank You for the info!!!

Cable is zip tied at the tranny, looks secure on the other end. Fluid changed. And the issue persists. What worries me is the downshifting issue - the occasional grind on downshift from 4 to 2, with the clutch pedal all the way down, makes me think synchros. I can't imagine another likely cause. I'm going to get a second opinion from another indy (my guy isn't a transmission guy) before doing anything else.

Try to bleed your clutch as well since it's cheap and easy.

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Clutch was done when I did the IMS

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That's not the same as having either serviced(bled) or replaced your clutch slave cylinder which can leak and introduce air bubbles into the hydraulic line.

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Not a typo. It is closer to 293K now.

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The cabled can be adjusted also the plastic ends on the tranny could wear out and a new cable would be needed. Also the shift mekanism itself on the tranny could ned som lube wd 40 or some other spray to go bether. also bear in mind that the adjustment is to be done verry gentle and in smaal steps

I talked to the guys at Gbox this morning, since I had a couple pop-outs as well, and they confirmed it's definitely a tranny issue and needs a rebuild. The grinding on downshift with clutch completely disengaged is pretty much a dead giveaway that the synchros aren't working properly and are worn. It's not cheap, but there are far worse things I could be dealing with, I suppose! I appreciate all the responses here. I'm going to order one of their rebuilt units and have my indy install next week.

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Ours got done last week. I haven't gotten to drive it much yet, but between the 2nd gear synchro and the new clutch/flywheel it feels like a different car. My synchro was so evenly worn you really couldn't see what the problem was until you looked at it next to one of the other synchros. Then it was night and day and I'm surprised I could get it in 2nd at all I'd have to look it up, but I think rebuilding vs swapping may have been a bit more. Since its a 1 owner car, still having its original transmission has value to us though.

And the saga continues. After almost 2 weeks waiting for the correct cables to match the new tranny (backordered), my indy installs it today. He calls me with the bad news. "It clunks." What? "Makes a clunking noise when clutch is disengaged" (ie, when stuff starts rotating in the tranny). GBox tried to blame my indy, but somehow he hashed out it with them and they're sending me a new unit, which all sounds well and good until you remember that I'm paying return shipping on another tranny, and paying twice for install. Plus it would have been nice if, you know, they mentioned the original one they sent might have different cable attachments. I'm not really pleased with them in general at this point. I know what cars are like - stuff breaks now and then and you have to pay for it, but I get really steamed when I pay for someone else's screwup. If this gets completed by the end of next week, that'll be 4 weeks in the shop for what should have been done in a day.

Wow. That sucks. I'd be plenty pissed too!