Why does the rare headlight design not drive up value?

We all know the discussion that the 996 will never, ever, ever be rare or a collectible, etc. Of course. Who would ever try to argue against the 99% of the consensus out there is a fool, obviously. But why does rareity not include the headlights? There are only a few characteristics of a 911 that are essential, including the placement of the engine, the 2+2 layout, and the shape. And what about the headlights? If not the headlights, then it�s not a 911. But I think everyone has moved past that last one, so it�s a true 911 with a rare-ish essential design characteristic. And it�s likely to get more and more rare over time. Consider that 1,044,930 911s were ever made from 1963-October of 2018. I don�t have the numbers through Feb of 2020. There were 175,262 996s made from 1997-2005. The 997 sold more than the 996, the 991 by itself achieved 233,540, and the 992 will also probably be a hit. So the 996 is about 14-15% of all 911s made and will probably be single digits in 10 years (perhaps over 2M 911s made by 2035?) I recon, the reason the headlight design isn�t rare today is because 1.) Nobody is really paying attention; it�s not rare enough 2.) Nobody really cares So my prediction is this: if the 996 ever becomes a collectible car for any reason, I think it will be because of the headlights.

Interesting. In my opinion the 996 is simply a model of the 911. Just like with other vehicles. There's always going to be some features which are more or less attractive, but I wouldn't consider something to be a collectible unless it's rare, which of course the 996 won't be for a long time due to the number available.

I think partly because it isn't a 'rare' car, they made, 175k examples of these. That is still a lot of cars, its mass produced, we arent talking about 5k or 500. Hell, my old VW R32 was 1 of 5000 and a good example of one of those will cost you the same as a 996. They are also always going to have the stigma of engine problems and with all the bore scoring popping up it its warranted. One thing that I have gotten a kick out of is how a lot of people swoon over the slant nose when my IMO that changes the shape of the 911 way more than the headlights but I guess the slant nose is actually relatively rare.

Hey Mike! I've thought about this too. If not "collectible" then maybe "unique" or "desirable"? With other collectibles it seems like the more "unique" versions do have more value, but maybe it's the rarity that makes them unique? I don't know. I do agree the car has the double whammy of the perceived reliability issues and of being "different" in a world that values the traditional. Paul

Knock on wood but I also feel like we hit the bottom at this point. I don't think the 996 will jump up in price but I think the worst of the price drops are done...for now...I hope.

I have never bought a car hoping I would make money on it. However, I can't tell you how many times I wished I still owned my 1965 Sunbeam Tiger that I bought in 1970 for $950...oh well! I buy cars like the 996 because I like them and want to drive them. To me cars are not a good investment. They are transportation or a toy that is fun to drive.

In the early 911s, they offered the Sportomatic transmission. Quite rare, not very many were built with it, but that doesn't make it more valuable. There were about 12,000 968s built, about 1/2 came to the US. With only 6,000 they are getting rare, but that doesn't make them worth more than the closest cousin, the 944 Turbo which with time will probably go for more. The 931 (924 Turbo) was quite rare, that that doesn't make them worth very much. Some people may fine them nostalgic, but that doesn't help.

The base 996 reminds me a lot of the E36 3 Series. It was the first model that broke away from the older models in terms of design and performance. They sold a lot of them, so they will never be collector cars but there will be a growing number of people looking for a well-taken-care-of lower mileage E36 and willing to pay more for it. I think the prices for base 996s will stay fairly low but the ones that have been taken care of will sell for $10k+ more than the rest. Especially ones that aren't silver or gray. Lol

It is not about headlights. It is more about quality of the motor which is the heart of any car and supply(qty produced.) You don't see the low value in GT3s but see lower value from 996 turbo from supply compared to 997s. 996 GT2s had their day in the sun on value but have since dropped in price.

I appreciate your viewpoint on this Mike. I like to think I own a bit of a rarity because of the design too. I didn't buy this to become an investment that will appreciate over 20 years and make me rich either. It it does, so be it, but I won't hold my breath and I'll drive this lovely piece of German engineering until I can no longer smile.

I feel like the people that actually buy cars as an investment are most of the time buying cars that are in price ranges 99.99% of people cant afford.

I really loved the look of the headlights of the 996 when it came out. Much more aero looking than the 993 and older "bug eyed" look. It look more like the real racing cars of the time, like the GT1 and any other modern car. I felt the people who complained of the headlights were just being nostalgic and stuck in the sixties. I was glad the engines had problems that afforded me the opportunity to buy one (or three) knowing the problems could be fixed, hell anything can be fixed. I also hoped it would increase in value, but with the increase in parts prices and engine prices going up much faster than the value of the car, it doesn't make them popular right now at all, but I don't care, I love mine !!!

Bottom line if you hold onto a 911 long enough theres a good chance it will appreciate. How many total worldwide cars produced are/were rear engine? How many of those engines are aluminum? How many of those have a boxer 6 cylinder engine? There are very few spots on a 911 susceptible to rust. The body shell is hot dipped galvanized and most components are aluminum. What cars offer the handing experience of a 911, regardless if water or air cooled? Only way to replicate is rear engine. I have a 99 and while I would prefer the bugeye lamps it�s the last thing I think about when I�m driving it.

I love my 996 headlights, makes my car look fast. It's probably because i added the roof scoop.

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From behind the wheel it looks a lot like a 993 or 997. And 97% of the population has no idea there's a stigma around the lights. They just see a 911.

+1 ^^^ what Woodman says

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Yeah, hasn�t the E36 cars gone up quite a bit in the last 5-10 years?

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Great points.

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This is the truth. I actually had a teenage kid ask me if it was the "new 911" at a gas station. When I told him it was about as old as him his jaw dropped.

Rarity in Porsche world doesn't mean increase in value. I used to have a 1991 944 S2 Cabrio. In terms of sheer numbers it was one of very few in the country but in the end it wasn't worth all that much. I've had my 996 for over 10 years so even if it's only worth $50 I got my money out of it!

^^^ Mine's worth at least $55... ^^^

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E30s definitely have gone up in value over the past 5 years. E36s are creeping up as well. I've never experienced so many of my friends who now say they would love to find a nice condition non-M3 E36. Most want a sedan now as well. In the past, it was all about coupes, and it being an M3. It's neat to see how trends change over the years. For the 996, the most desired will be the GTX, turbos, and C4Ss. After that it will be unique color/option configurations and low-mileage cars.

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that's weird. I can't imagine any E36 being desirable, especially a non-M model....and I raced a 93 sedan with a euro S50 motor. but that was 10+ years ago; I guess times have changed.

Having purchased a new 996 and now a 991.2 I can tell you that the two cars are worlds apart. The 996 was great for its generation, but in my opinion the headlight design simply hasn't aged well. The design was bold for the time and much different than any of the other headlights these cars have had since or before. It'll be interesting to see how they fair in the next 20 years.

^^^ No such thing as a 996 GTX... where did you get that from?

GTx where x = 2 or 3

The best comparison I can make for the headlights and what MIGHT happen down the road is with respect to the 1972-only external oil filler, which had a bucket/flap like a gas filler. The 72 911 was reviled by some back in the day on a basis of looks and/or, more commonly, the dangers of the wrong things going into the oil vs. gas tanks. However, as a past owner of several 72s, I can say firsthand that that feature is in fact is quite benign. It now arguably makes 72 911s among the most desirable of the early cars. The 996's headlights are completely benign and, as someone else pointed out, more or less ignored by the non-hardcore folks. So it is plausible that once the numbers still on the road come down (perhaps many years from now), the headlights could provide a similar draw for the collector type looking for a "unique" 911. Personally, I dig the headlights. Good enough for the GT1, good enough for the road-going 911.

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The E36 is really the cheaper version of the E46, the car that went up in value pretty quickly, IMO. The E46 (M3) and the 996 are not just in the same league, they have very similar performance, and until 5 years ago, were practically the same price. Then the BMWs went way up.

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I guess one can never know what strange, bizzare car feature will draw the biggest dollars. And you�re right, it takes time. The oldest or first clay pot in existence was probably never considered a collectible until thousands of years had passed. Who�s going to wait that long on the 996, lol.

I used to think the 996 headlights were ugly (before I owned a Porsche myself), but over the years the design really has grown on me and now I find that I prefer the 996.1 headlights to the 996.2 and the 997. Overall the entire 996 design is aging really nicely because it is so elegant and restrained. The 997 and 991 are more shouty. But I may be biased due to owning one now myself.

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Ahhhh GT(x)... That makes some sense...

IMO the headlights got a bad rap because they were also on the Boxter. The high paying Porsche owners and enthusiasts did not like that it was hard to tell the difference looking head on. They thought that it cheapened the brand and also the fact that Porsche moved from Air cooled to Water cooled. It was the 996 that basically saved the Brand from going under. At the end of the day we buy these cars because they are what they are. And that my friends is "Good" Am I petrified of "Bore Scoring" and "AOS" failure? You bet I am. But I could also be hit by some Snowbird in their Buick. My 996 has paint chips on the front and the drivers seat is a little tatty, but that is what makes it a drivers car and not something to be put in a garage and polished never to see the light of day. Does it really matter if the price goes up or down? Not really. Think how nice it is to get up in the morning and go "Wow, I own a Porsche" and then when you get in it you automatically turn into the Cheshire Cat with that silly Grin. I never thought I would own one. I am just you average Joe, but, my goodness does it make me happy. Isn't that what it is all about?

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Best $4000.00 (roller) I've ever spent!

I'm spoiled with GT cars but... I also really really like my 996. Headlights are fine IMO.... it's unique and one of a kind for a 911, that's a rare characteristic in my book. Best 911 bang for the buck is the 996...

Love 996.1 headlights. When the 996 came out I thought it was the best looking 911 yet, and 20+ years later I still feel that way. 997 and 991 are nice, but to my eyes not as “clean” as the 996. And to me a 996 makes a 993 look cluttered and dated. At the time I thought Porsche took a step backwards with the turbo, then the 996.2. But as others have said, to a non-Porsche owner it is just a 911, and a nice looking one. I get compliments frequently from people that think my car is much newer than it is. Daryll