Death Rattle?

Running to get food today and the car is driving fine. Windows down, feeling the warm breeze. Went to McD's and ordered at the drive through. Everything sounded normal. Stop to get gas, fire it up and it's fine. Then, I drive over to Panera and sit at the speaker/menu and I notice this knocking sound. It was coming from my car. The frequency of the knocks increased with the revs. The tone was similar to the old 60's/70's cars "dieseling" when the shut down. Is this the "death rattle"? TC

Bad gas? Did you use the green handle? Leaking oil? Failing IMSB often sounds like marbles cycling around in a can. Oil pressure? Pull the accessory drive belt and see if the noise stops. If so check all pulleys/wheels for play/noise.

Ah. No marbles in a can. Just a definitive knocking sound that rises and falls with revs. I left it in the parking lot at Panera--heard horror stories about driving after hearing a rattling noise. No oil leak, pressures and level ok so far. I used BP premium--no diesel. . But it does sound a little like knocking with crappy gas. TC

I always used to panic with every car I had at a drive thru. The sounds bouncing off the wall is NOT a good indicator that anything is wrong with your car. Just my $.02

Understand, Shark but this is a pretty definitive knock. I think I'm going to go pick it up and run it to the Indy tomorrow. TC

Remove serpentine belt. start car...... is death rattle is gone, it is the water pump. I know the sound....... will scare the begeebus out of you. I flat bedded my C4 125 miles to my indy out of fear of doing any irreparable engine damage. Was a good lesson. My water pump was not leaking either, but it was junk. 125k on motor then.

Could just be a stuck or cold lifter since it follows engine revs. Service history? Recent oil changes? How many miles? Any repairs? Agree with other suggestions to check. Hopefully your shop will figure it out. BTW I would have slept in my car overnight. Had a friend park a BMW locked up tight outside a McD's 24 hour drive thru window and it was busted into within hours. The damage to the inside and dash was astounding. They just busted out the driver's side window....glass all over inside as well. Amazing what some morons will do.

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Agree! When my water pump went south, it caused a knocking as you describe. Sounds so bad you do not want to drive it. Flatbed to dealer proved it was the water pump. The car only had 40K miles.

Dropped seat valve?

So, should I drive it the 5-7 miles to the shop or flatbed it? TC

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There are no indications other than the noise. Wouldn't an internal failure cause a dropoff in performance? TC P.S.--When I described it to the shop owner, he thought catalytic converter or exhaust issue. But that was an off the cuff assessment.

I'd have it towed. Good luck-

Flat bed it.

'If you THINK you should, you should...' TC

Epilogue: I decided to live on the edge and drive to the shop. No sound on startup. No sound whild driving or idling. Got to the shop and the owner pounded on the exhaust and poked around looking for any indication of trouble. Could have been bad gas or a baffle in the exhaust that came loose then jammed back somewhere. Don't know. Not going to go Krazy trying to fix it. Thanks to all who contributed their experience to try to solve my issue! TC

And, now, the rest of the story... Driving to the bank today, maybe a hint of the clanking noise but nothing obvious. Parked at a restaurant for lunch, came out and there was a wet spot about three feet in diameter with a trail draining for about ten feet. I thought "hummm, I don't remember that being there when I showed up. I fired up the car and moved it forward into the next parking space in front. When I got out and looked, there was dripping from a (approx. one inch diamter) tube running from the back part of the block. It was a rubber tube with a clamp attached to the left side of the block. The liquid was basically clear but somewhat slimy. It dripped for a bit then stopped. The coolant reservoir was empty. I'd noticed it being low the other day. So, off to the shop it went--on a flatbed... More to follow. TC

Let us know what you find out - sorry man...

I hope this has a happy ending... fingers crossed

Well, no dramatic failure or spiking temps. Maybe the noise was pump cavetation? We'll see and I'll report the findings. The thing is, had I trucked it to the shop the other day, the mech (would have) found no problems after looking over, under, around and listening for several minutes (as he did when I drove it down yesterday morning). So, I would have still gotten a clean bill of health and puked out my fluid in the same parking lot at the same time. I could have insisted he replace the water pump but if we guessed wrong...? It's an art, not a science. TC

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Waterpump ....starting up without belt would have been the test to do ....no noise ... Check bearing play .... My pump dumped its coolant out without any noise warning or obvious bearing play when belt was off - also looked like leak near hose clamp - but that is just were the coolant was dripping down to ..

Targa--Did your pump just fail or did it shed any impeller blades? TC

I can't help but think that you dodged a bullet by driving it. The coolant puked because the cracked hose couldn't handle the system pressure after getting it warm. This still doesn't relate to the noise though......unless your water pump shed a blade and that is what you heard going through your motor. The cracked hose could be a by-product of the cause. If you read through the threads about waterpump and loosing a blade some bad ju ju can happen.

Pete--The noise was definitely mechanical--the ticking sound was rhymic and tied to the revs. And, like Targa said, I don't think a hose or clamp failed, that was just where the fluid was dripping from. I took it to Brian at Autocar on the Westside. He said it would be a few days before he got to it. Pushy Ferrari owners... TC

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Are you sure you want to be dealing with a Ferrari garage?

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Lol. He goes both ways. TC

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I bet Ferraris are his bread and butter and what keeps him in business since they always seem to be failing or need the engine taken out for basic tuneups and such(older models).

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Lol. A friend had a 308 GTSi so your comment brought back several conversations. TC

Some guys own them, love them, wrench on them and treat em special. Some guys just drive them, sometimes complain and NEVER take advice.

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You talking about Ferrari's or Porsches or both? I find the guys that can and want to wrench on them are usually the ones that can least afford them. If you could donate some funds to the cause, I'd be happy to own a Ferrari and take great care of it. Still doesn't change the fact that basic maintenance can be a headache or change their reliability though.

I speak of guys who ask for advice and then ignore it. I have never had a Ferrari. I do own 2 P cars with a combined near quarter million miles, that I put on them. I bought one near new and the other off the showroom floor, for cash. I wrench on them myself....... So your model misses some middle ground. They are not hard to work on for the most part. My indie does the things I am not comfortable tearing into. Sounds like you have a hair about Ferraris or Ferrari guys...... That is not me. Taking care of anything is a headache, even if your only solution is to pay for getting it taken care of. Taking the time and interest to giv a guy advice he asked for, only to have him ignore it. well........ you know.

Gretch--If you're talking about me ignoring your advice, yes, I didn't take the serp belt off and start it. I DID take it to the indy and had him look at it, listen to it and discussed what advice I was given here by all parties. He found nothing. So, while I greatly appreciate advice and do give it serious consideration--and will continue to do so in the future, I still rely on the guy who has the shop. There are people here who think nothing of pulling the motor out of their car. To me, that's like going to the moon. Maybe someday, I will have the time and equipment to tear into the guts of my cars but for now, I have to gather all the advice, collate it and make the best decision based on all information available at the time. Frankly, I had been reading stuff here and worrying about my impeller shedding vanes and considered doing a preemptive water pump change last month. But, with all the crap KrazyK gets here for being "proactive", I decided against it. (And had I done it, I, too, would have taken ribbing for being "Krazy".). But we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Not having a mx history on my car should probably nudge me toward preemptive swapping of problem parts. I "should" do the IMSB. I "should" do the RMS. I "should have done" the water pump. I "should" do the motor mounts. But on the heels of what I "should" do are the posts of those saying "just enjoy and drive" your car. Flip a coin... Now, I have learned a lesson. I personally will know that sound and what it means but I will never fault some nameless, faceless P-car owner if he tells me "thanks but I'll take it to the shop". Ok. Good luck and let us know what they say. Porsche ownership is an art, not a science. A magnificent, enthralling, sometimes mysterious and, often, a black art. TC

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I don't know where the communication breakdown is but I think we're basically in agreement. I've been wrenching on all my cars for over 20 years. I've never taken any of my cars to a mechanic since then. At the same time I know diy isn't for everyone and respect that. People that come on here for advice only to ignore it or wait until 30 people respond with the same answer doesn't really make sense to me either. I'm perfectly fine with Ferrari's and some of the owners which I know. Sometimes you gotta joke around and have fun and also be realistic to keep sane in this hobby. I think people that seen enough of my previous post know that about me.

It is all good, guys...... to each his own. I am reminded that it takes an effort to carefully parse out quality advice learned from experience....... The reminder is a good thing for me......

Post mortem: Water pump shaft was shot. No blades missing. Everything else the mech checked out was good. No leakage around RMS, no sagging mounts, clutch effort is high (knew that) and will probably need to be done in another 7-8k mi. (around 80k, as anticipated). Brakes good, no other problems noted. $870. TC

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you got off easy. I can't get out of the shop for under $1k whenever I have any service...wait I take it back, my last turbo oil change was $550. To be fair they did take off the fan belt and listen for weird sounds... 2002 Turbo - Basalt Black Metallic / 2003 Carrera 4S - Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 - Rust Red

Mine does the same thing. All's quiet on startup, the after driving a bit, sounds like marbles in a can. It does generally get a bit faster with RPMs, but the pitch and intensity always remains the same. The local shop said it's a chunk of catalytic converter element that's broken loose, and rattles around once the engine warms up. I've been getting a periodic CEL with the code complaining about the catalytic converter performing out of spec, so I'm thinking he's right. Shopping for replacement cat now. It looks like access to the cat is reasonable. Is this a DIY type project, or should I shell out the $$$ to get the shop to take care of it?

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Depends on how rusted your car is underneath and what kind of tools/patience/aptitude you have.

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I did mine myself. It took several hours but it is pretty straightforward. Removing them requires removing the mufflers (if I remember right). The challenge is getting the exhaust nuts off. The effort depends heavily on how rusted they are. It helps to cover them with PB Blaster (or similar) the night before. The bots on the catalytic converter can break pretty easily although it isn't a big problem since you are replacing it anyway. Also a good time to take your mufflers in for the Gundo/Fister mod since you'd have them off... and maybe inspect your ignition coils since they are easier to access with the mufflers off. There are lots of good aftermarket options for catalytic converters that are considerably cheaper than OEM.