In danger of overspending on a 996

Hi all, I drove my first 911 yesterday and I am in deep trouble of catching the bug. It is a 3 owner 1999 996 with 55k miles description here: ALL MAJOR SERVICES DONE!!! This 1999 Porsche 911 Carrera C2 in Arctic Silver Metallic with Black Leather interior only has 55,393 LOW Miles!!! This CLEAN CARFAX Carrera recently has had the following done: NEW CLUTCH, NEW WATER PUMP, REPLACED SHAFT BEARING, and REAR MAIN SEAL!!! This is a Rare Opportunity to own a Clean Carrera with complete service history. The car is in amazing shape inside and out and the paint is incredible - it is in way better shape then my '06 gti. However it is $24,000 which seems a lot for a '99. My question is am I nuts to spend so much on an older model? Should I spend a little more and get a c4s w/ higher miles/questionable service? It also drove amazing (for my 15 min test drive) but is there anything I should look or listen for? I'm looking for any and all help as I am out of my depth here and never thought I would fall in love with the "least loved" 911 but dear lord she is a beautiful thing.

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Here are some pictures - my 3 kids also fit...

This is one of those it depends on the car kind of questions. If everything is done and the car checks out 100%, then no, it's. It crazy money. These cars can get expensive quick if they need major service. The water pump , seal, and IMS are a few grand worth of repairs already done. If you love the car, it's optioned the way you want it, and everything checks out, then go for it. At that price it's not going to be gone immediately. Spend time driving it, getting a good inspection, and go through all service records. Spend time here learning and asking questions. Most of the sub 20k cars need a lot of work. Look at little things that go on all these cars like keys, sun visors, leather wear, etc.

Welcome ! The C4S is a different beast. 4wd, more ponies, better brakes etc etc and generally better interior than a 99. I suggest you drive both. Get a solid PPI for the one you want to buy. This 99 seems to be well sorted out if there are documents to prove the work. Also, what other options does the 99 have ? Full leathers, LSD ? There should be an option code sticker on the underside of the front trunk lid. Post it up. Are you at a volvo dealership ? Lots in the background.

Thanks guys - lots to think about! I'm not sure it's optioned the way I want - no full leather, partial power seats, the older pre 2003 gauge cluster and lights that's what killing me. But all of the little things mentioned are great - leather dash outside in etc it looks so mint it is really changing my mind. No LSD either - coming from a gti though I'm not sure I need much more performance than it offers . Yes it's a Volvo dealer the previous owner of 12 years traded in for an '02 turbo.

Based on my recent research, that's probably a $21000 car. The work they've done would be 3.5-4K and is pretty much mandatory for a used 996. It's worth finding out if they replaced the IMSB with a factory unit or the LNE bearing. Like dgjks6 said, spend some time driving it, get a good PPI and go for it if all looks good. Good luck.

The price is high but not by much. If you can get it for $20000 you have done very well. If not, even 22000 is a reasonable price for what looks like a non molested car with the original pumpkins on it. A middle aged or more elderly gent had that one you can bet your **** on that statement. The younger owners tend to mod them out for the track or to show off to their younger friends. So rest assured it was well cared for and not molested in any way by the looks of it. Show us photos inside the cabin. Find everything that a 99 is suppose to have and whats supposed to work and in what way (and theres a lot). Read the first posting on this board https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...96-thread.html and pick out everything referring to the 99 996. a few little pointers .... is the tool kit with it? all lights working correctly including the parking lights (either side comes on independently). Alarm does not beep as you lock the car. If it does then something is open. There is so much to know about the 99 996 rear wheel drive Carrera. Gas door locking ok? Hazard lights working? reversing light? and the list goes on ad infinitum. The price is high but would be correct for a Cab of the same year.... $5 grand too high. But hey if you want it make a decent offer no higher than 22000 even though it has low mileage. That's my advice for what it's worth.

Great thread on some advantages of the 99s as well. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...dvantages.html

Tell the lot you need a 30 minute test drive to test the engine cooling (it does take that long). Here's your test drive: 1. 2nd and 3rd gear should feel amazing 3-5+k rpm, like it's gonna take flight. 2. Make sure the coolant gauge holds steady when it gets up to 180. 3. Make sure the low speed radiator fans kick on. 4. Get it hot enough (200-220) to see if the high speed fans kick on. 5. Make sure oil pressure hits 4-5 when rpm is 3-4k+. That's just off the top of my head.

My suggestion is that you focus more on buying the best example you can find rather than focusing on buying the price. That said, if there is anything about this car that doesn't suit you, anything that you feel as though you are compromising on, then I would pass on that specific car. After the right car finds you, you can work on the price/value equation. As I am sure you have heard or will hear in the near future; it's not as much about the cost of entry as it is about the cost of proper participation. The right car could very well "cost" less in the long run even when the purchase price is higher than what you hear people saying they "think" a fair price is. In my opinion, in the used market not all Porsches are created equal - no such thing as finding the "same" car for a better price. Be patient and enjoy the hunt - the anticipation is part of the rush.

Terrible interior shots as the dealer was closed. Nothing special but in great shape - yes that is a cell phone in there probably from '99 . Thanks for the the insight hurdigurdiman - I'm gonna assume the pumpkins are the side markers (is it wrong that I already looked at replacements). Tons of awesome advise and links - I got some homework to do now. It's nice though looking at the links and replies that I'm starting t feel not like settling but choosing and getting a really desirable car. Not to be a moron Phill996cab99 but should the temp hold at 180 or get up to 200? Would you have to intentionally abuse it? This community is fantastic btw thanks to everyone.

Sorry damn photobucket

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180 is perfection but rarely attainable. 200 is good and normal, and Porsche's goal (straight up vertical). No you wouldn't have to intentionally abuse it. Normal driving will get it there. Spirited driving may take it above 200, but that's when the fans NEED to bring it back to 200 when they get the chance. You don't want to hang out at 230, which is between the zero (in 180) and the next mark (which is 250).

Good deal thanks!

At the risk of starting a debate - I will mention that I check to see that the car is equipped with the proper and matching tires. Good tread isn't the same as "N" specification tires. You will see an N rating on the sidewall - an N followed by a number such as N3. All four tires should be of the same make and carry the same N rating. You don't want N1 on the front and N3 on the back. The number signifies the iteration of the design, the higher the number the more recent the iteration. Not only am I of the belief that the proper tires makes a noticeable difference in the handling performance of the car, I also tend to believe if the previous owner wasn't willing to spend on proper tires that other maintenance, such as brake fluid flushes, oil changes, etc. might have been deferred as well. N spec tires do cost - approximately $1200.00 t0 $1500.00 per set and I think most of us average about 12k miles on the rears. You can figure on getting through two pairs of rear tires to one pair of front tires. Also know that winter tires do matter, snow or not, based on road temperature. I am in the Northeast and drive mine year round, so I have a set of winter wheels and tires for each car. I am already aware that many owners don't agree with the significance of the "N" specification and perhaps think it is nothing more than a marketing ploy by Porsche and the tire manufacturer. I am just sharing my opinion on a detail I personally look for.

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I have drove mine like a bat out of hell for an hour and never got it past the 0 of the 180. Not hitting the red line but I mean 5/6000 revs during changes. Mine is a cab and lighter than most with the hard top out of the way. People ask me if its a turbo. What on these roads????, why would anyone require a turbo on American roads with a 65 top speed limit. Don't make me laugh. I could leave most turbos for dead in this car. Not Porsche turbos but most other turbos. Just saying.

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Same here, I used to have my fun on country roads at very high speeds. I had to get that out of my system. Now I've learned to have my fun in 2nd & 3rd gear at legal speeds, and I'm having just as much fun. Re: cooling, those fans on high speed make quite a ruckus, but they stop the heating dead in its tracks. They are the last line of defense. Lose one of those, and I bet you get past the 0.

The temp should go halfway into the zero (at its hottest) i dont think much higher. In my boxster it was always to the left of the zero. In my TT the temp never goes past the halfway mark on the zero. Regular driving in both vehicles has always been slightly to the left of the zero (not touching it). Once i cleaned the rads my temp dropped. I recently bought some all aluminum rads but havent installed them yet.

Be very careful about that replaced shaft bearing claim. If you must have a car with the IMSB upgrade you need to see sufficient paperwork that it was done (and when and by whom) to know it was done. What most often happens is the RMS leaks. This is replaced. The SOP is to then replace the iMS end flange its seal and bolts with upgraded parts. While almost certainly this eliminates a leak from the IMS and its bolts, it is *not* an IMS bearing upgrade or replacement.

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Much of this temp talk depends on where you live. If you are sitting in traffic in the summer in TX or AZ the temp can certainly rise past the zero. This is normal and not an issue unless your cooling system is not working properly.

Im in NJ, my boxster ended up with a pinhole leak that started to give me trouble. I think all we were trying to suggest is to check for a failing cooling system. Check for the ln imsb sticker located at the inside bottom of the front driver door.

Really helpful everyone thanks everyone! Is it wrong to go look at it in a closed dealer parking lot . For what it's worth all 4 tires match with an n-3

Proper tires and N3 being a recent iteration, is a good sign. I think if you follow the other advice given here, including looking for the sticker to verify that a true IMSB upgrade has been done. If it has an LNE bearing they provide 3 stickers; one on the driver door, one under the engine lid, and one on the build sticker under the front hood. If everything checks out make an offer - assume that $24k is what they would love to get for it and maybe they have $3k to $5k wiggle room. However, if they can tell you are emotionally committed to the car they most likely won't budge. For what it's worth I have a 2004 C2 with 84k miles, Arctic Silver over black, dealer maintained with all service records. LNE IMSB upgrade done, new clutch pack, AOS, front brakes and rotors. Nicely optioned with PSE, Bi-Xenons, M030 sport suspension, 18" wheels, Bose stereo, heated power comfort seats, and aero side skirts. Completely unmolested and as built from the factory. (except for an OEM SSK and smoked front side markers I had installed when I purchased it in 2007). I am the 2nd owner. My point is the $24k is near what I would sell my car for, although I am not selling it at the moment. Just offering for comparison sake. Best of luck.

Thanks silo two - I'm working had not to be committed - looking at other listings right now if they can't come down.

Biggles, There are tons of used 996's on the market. You are in a very good position to bargain. Go there cash in hand. Tell them that if it passes a PPI (by a mechanic of your choosing) that you will buy it. You will certainly be able to get the price down that way, probably significantly. The Volvo dealership doesn't really want a 15 year old Porsche taking up space on his lot. Figure if you pay 20 to 22 you will be getting a fair deal. If they really did the IMSB, and can document it, the 24 isn't a bad price, but I'm sure you can get it for less. Personally, there's enough changes (more HP, glove box, etc.) from '02 up (996.2) that I prefer them over the 996.1. But, plenty of folks are perfectly happy with 996.1. Relatively minor differences. Regarding the temp issue above... Once my car is at operating temp., the needle never budges. Here it is after two hours driving through the desert, and AC on full: (P.S. Yes, "pumpkins" are the side markers. RL bans members from the 996 forum if they are not replaced with clear within one week of purchase). .

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Hurdi thanks for mentioning re: cab hard top. Never occurred to me that extra weight I'm hauling around (it is heavy). Now I remember how light the car felt. Incentives me to fix that sweet soft top now. There's a new guy should do that also. Sorry OP slightly OT.

Hey guys back from an extended test drive (in some downpours) and my first question is do all 911's have a load annoying thrum/noise? Once at speed (40/45) boy was it loud it could be a deal breaker with my dream . Other notes: all switches, lights, etc all work everything I could think to test. Coolant after warm up settled at straight up (200?) and didn't budge. Oil pressure at start up was over 5. After warm up at idle settled at 2.5 and under even modest acceleration swung toward 3/4. Didn't have many good 2nd 3rd gear runs heavy traffic and rain lots of short shifting at 4 grand. One aggressive 1st gear start to around 6 grand holy sh*t is this mother fast! Service looks like it includes "ims retrofit" kit see picture any clarity on this would help. I'll also post the options sticker and some interior shots.

No. I cruise at 120 plus with no thrum noises, so having road noise at 40 is definitely not acceptable. However, this sounds like it is probably a tire issue or maybe a brake issue - either of which the dealer should be willing to address prior to purchase. Did it sound like tire noise, or was it more mechanical (like exhaust)? If the IMS was retrofitted with the LN bearing, the bearing came with stickers. Check the doorjamb and front and back covers of the owner's manual. If the stickers aren't there, find out who did the retrofit and verify it. While the retrofit isn't ESSENTIAL, you'd probably wind up having it done anyway, so save yourself the $2K and make d*mn sure it actually happened.

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This looks like a customer of mines car and he was talking about putting it up for sale. If it is here in DFW Texas, it's worth every penny of that $24k. I didn't do the work as I only deal with 928's so I can't answer any questions on the work done. Although I did advise him to get it all done. EDIT: Just saw the invoice, not the same car.

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Nope seanr simsbury ct - about as far away as possible

If that's the correct VIN, I'd be satisfied that the IMS was replaced. The invoice indicates dual-row, which is correct for your car. If you can get the alignment issue resolved, you may have a winner...

Hey 5chn3ll - nope no stickers I looked based on someone else's post. Hard to say it really could have been tire noise or exhaust - pretty loud and constant once at speed. I didn't notice it at all during my first shorter test drive.

Hey, those are switches for heated seats...nice.

Alignment issue? Would that be the source of the noise? I would like to apologize in advance for any really really stupid question.

Yes and those work - 2 stage apparently. You have no idea how the noise is killing me

BTW, "R 3285" on the sticker is probably the code you need to unlock the radio when you replace the car battery and any other time the car completely loses power...

A "thrumming noise" to me sounds like a misaligned or unbalanced tire. If it's rhythmic and speed-sensitive (as opposed to being RPM-sensitive), it sounds potentially like a tire issue. It could be something like a bearing, but if it was my car, I'd start with the tires. Did the sales person you were driving with have any input? Suggest that their service manager take it for a drive, since something seems amiss. If they're game, you may also ask to take it to a Porsche shop for diagnosis. Plenty of people will tell you to run from an imperfect car, but if the issue can be identified and is an easy fix, this could be a bargaining chip for you. So, do what you think is right. DO NOT do what I did: Walk into the dealership and ask how much they wanted to pull it off the showroom and hold it for me. This was not a strong opening move for my transaction, but thankfully I have done business with them for years and I was not gouged for my poor poker face.

Thanks - the salesman said that's what 911's sound like (it's a Volvo dealer). I told him it might be a deal breaker if true - it was pretty gd annoying. I think I will follow up in a couple days to see if he can get a second opinion from a service tech.

^^^ Look carefully at the invoice. This car has the RARE " Duel Row" IMS!!!! Wikipedia: A duel is an arranged engagement in combat between two individuals, with matched weapons in accordance with agreed-upon rules.

Probably why it's making that noise - it's fighting itself.

Now I'm excited (for you). Porsche dealer invoices, looking pretty good from this angle. Previous owner got the VIP discount, whatever that is. I'm always curious why people get major work done before selling.

Mr. Bigglesworth - good job on the research; here is what I see if I am reading invoices correctly. Oct 2008 - oil change at 52,338 miles Feb 2014 - IMS retrofit at 54,737 miles Car only accumulated 2400 miles in approx. 5 years and 4 months. For me the concern/question would be the lack of the car being driven; and the length of time between oil changes (assuming that the oil wasn't changed in the interim - big assumption). And of course I would wonder why the owner of 12 years appeared to pretty much stop driving it yet retain ownership for so long. One thing these cars do not like is to sit, the other thing they don't like is short trips. The SKU for the IMS retrofit kit does match the SKU from LN Engineering - thus stickers would have been provided. The retrofit was performed at a shop over 100 miles away from Simsbury Ct. and the claim is that it was traded for a 2002 Volvo. What is the actual mileage now? It left with the shop in N.Y. with 54,749 miles on 2/14/2014. One concern/question would be why invest in the IMS retrofit and only drive it a couple hundred miles in 6 months? The "thrumming" is absolutely not normal and I personally would not buy a car that had an issue that I had to chase down after purchase. It either gets 100% resolved by the dealer prior to purchase or it would be a deal breaker for me. My concerns might be totally invalid yet if it were me and I really wanted the car I would pay to run my own carfax to check for history from new and I guess to verify that it was truly a trade-in and not an auction car. And even then, I might ask permission to speak to the previous owner, although I did that once and the guy said the car was in great shape, just that he got married and needed an automatic. Wasn't true - after I bought it I found that it needed a head gasket and the 4th gear synchro was shot and it had been in multiple times for service for an anti-freeze smell and shift linkage adjustments. Hey I was just a kid back then so I didn't know any better. Time sometimes teaches, or maybe it is the line "some things can't be taught, only learned". Not trying to rain on your parade and like I said I might be way off base. And if I am reading things incorrectly I am positive some one here will call my attention to that. Keep up with the due diligence.

Silo interesting observation about the mileage. But, by 2008 it was nearly a 10-year old car. The original owner likely got something else, and just drove this once in awhile. Happens all the time. Biggles, I agree with the other comments above regarding the "thrumming"... likely the tires, and will go away if you get some different tires (some tires are known to really make a lot of noise). It is not inherent of the car, and you can find plenty of tires that don't make any annoying road noise). Like Silo says, find out exactly what that noise is. That should be easily addressed at the PPI.

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Heh...I was gonna let that slide. Those German ESL students...

Mr. Bigglesworth I was in the exact same situation as yourself back in January 2013 when I went out 911 shopping but luckily found a top notch 02 C4S that didn't make any sounds. So, basically a 996 is going to cost you money no matter how perfect it is may appear in the showroom and/or what the PPI tells you. In Jan 2013, mine passed with flying colours but still has cost me CHF 10'000+ (USD 11'000+ but hey this is Switzerland so everything is expensive) in service and repairs over the last 18 months of ownership, and I have driven it less than 12'000 km (7'500 miles) during this period. This said, do not let this deter you. Tbh, the money I have spent on repairs/maintenance has been worth every single penny as I feel in love with the car at first sight and it brings me so much joy driving. I really hope everything works out for you so you can join the 996 club

Jesus endless gratitude for the community here you guys are incredible. So good to know it has the correct ims retrofit - my biggest worry is buying a car that immediately needs an $8000 engine. I only scanned in 2 invoices out of a stack so that might explain the oil change gap the current mileage is 55,000. The previous owner traded in on an '02 turbo that's why it's at a volvo dealer (no idea how they got a turbo) he lived in ny. It's the noise!!! Worked great in the rain (stable not scary) so quick out of first and the gear change was great but loud. Hopefully tires? Everyone here doesn't seem to be getting a migraine from their cars.

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It could be tires, it could be something else - why not keep looking, maybe for a newer 2000 or 2001 with full leather, 3 spoke steering wheel, more of the options you want, etc?

We'll because I'm obsessed Andy

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We all are! But finding a better car should be pretty easy, and when you do, you can be obsessed with THAT one!

My (for a few more days) C4S has the Michelin N spec tires. They are fairly noisy depending on pavement type. When you go on your next test drive, try and find different types of pavement. Listen carefully and the change in noise as you drive on the different pavement types will be obvious. That's the only downfall of the tires, other than the price of course.

I'll bet money the tires are old. Old tires are just as bad as worn out tires, and many Porsches don't get driven much. Check the date code, if they are 3-4 years or older I bet that's the issue. I have encountered that noise many times. Here's how to read the sidewall. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=11 Btw, N-Spec is a racket.

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I had a similar experience this past March. It was getting quite loud, which I thought was the snow tires. But when switching to summers, the noise stayed and it was very loud around 70-75. It turned out to be a front wheel bearing ($400), but it took my indep Porsche guy holding a screwdriver to the hub while turning the wheel to find it. Couldnt identify just by driving, and now its as quiet as my Mercedes E Class. Might be worth considering, even with your low miles

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Your pic looks like my temperatures here in Florida right now. Temp sits just above 180 most of the time, even when its 112 outside and I'm at speed on the highways. As a fairly new owner of my first 996 I was wondering what a good temp was and now I feel better l