Another blown motor. My 996 days are over.

On the afternoon of Sunday, July 5, I was having a great time driving in a DE at Road America. Until I saw the big cloud of white smoke. I got off the track quickly, but that will be my last time on a track for a while. Dissection of the motor revealed a failed freeze plug and a failed #1 rod bearing. The working theory is that the plug failed, coolant rapidly got into places it shouldn't go, and displacement of oil by coolant quickly killed the bearing. Anyway, having put over $20K into rebuilding the motor over 2018-2019, I decided I wasn't going to put up the kind of money required to get the car back on the road. If you have some time to kill and care to read about my previous issues, here is the link: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...il-filter.html Earlier today I sold the car as a roller, and I am out of the Porsche game for the first time since 1997. Maybe I will get back into the game when I can afford something with a 9A1 motor??? I did have a lot of good times in the 996, but the dollar/year ratio certainly ended up being higher than I hoped it would be.

Bummer!

Tough to read. So sorry as it seemed you were very thoughtful on your journey to a 3.8. I feel your pain as I had a 73 2.4 that was rebuilt with S pistons and E cams let go on the track. Replaced it with a 3.0 and all was good!

Wow, I have never heard of either of these issues. Truly sorry. With the recent failure, what caused the failed freeze plug?

So sorry to hear. These cars have a higher probability of burning through money and leaving behind many engine carcasses as participation awards in the 996 game. Always makes me sad for the owners. Thanks for sharing and good luck with your next car.

These stories remind me of why I am so glad I sold my 996 when I did.

Quotes source post: 16842939

Sorry to hear about your bad luck OP. Can definitely see why you'd call it quits after a second go. Hopefully you'll get back into something down the road. A lot of sports cars aren't bullet proof. Sure the 996 carries some potential issues, but that's not to say other P cars (and other makes) don't have their faults either. Part of the game.

Quotes source post: 16842543

I mean, that's the common theme, but empirically is that really the case? Sorry to open this can of worms, but my assessment is this is a statement without much evidence to support it. Over 175,000 996-generation 911s were produced. Perhaps the reliability isn't so bad relative to the overall production run, especially for those who, at most, engage in some spirited driving and don't track our cars? Sampling bias plays a part too, I think, given the audience on Rennlist and similar sites.

I was driving a car with over 100K miles fairly hard on race tracks. In the time I had the car it spent plenty of time over 6K RPM.

Quotes source post: 16842974

I've said this before but lots of German cars have potential catastrophic modes of failure. M3s, M5s, Audi's of various vintage with Turbos, and timing guides on the S4 V8 and Mercedes with its own share of issues. Hell, my GTI was part of an era where the timing guides got stuck and could grenade your engine. Happened to me but I got lucky and didn't have a catastrophic failure. I think what makes the 996 bad is that it just costs so much money to rebuild or build an m96 engine.

Quotes source post: 16843115

Mine misfires on the track over 6k rpm. Had smoke the first time I took to the track a few months ago and swapped to a motorsport AOS. Took it back to track yesterday and no more smoke. However... WOT over 6k produces CEL misfire and when I come off track at idle it says low oil pressure.

So sorry to hear this Mark, a total bummer and wish you all the best in the future. Thanks for sharing and thusly adding another data point for the rest of us to note. As for the impending argument over M96 reliability: all high performance motors have weak spots. By design making a Motorsport inspired engine requires reliability to fall off the top of the totem pole. 996�s are now 20 years old and a track environment will take their toll. Same with any 20yr old HP engine of any make. As the saying goes, ya gotta pay to play.

Well, that blows...literally. I'm sorry to hear about this. Mike

This really really sucks and most Porsche owner's worst nightmare. Sorry man.

Sorry to hear about this....Always a bummer to see this and yes, we all share the pain. ( my engine blew with a rod bearing failure three years ago) Certainly having a second failure can be discouraging...truly a big time bummer and I have to say, I would choose your path as well and move on. However, As someone that owns a 2014 Turbo S(which arguably is the best overall sports car I have ever owned, I am obsessed with my 996 platform....and particularly the Aero variant. To me its the best looking 911 and is most fun car I have ever owned and really the only car I enjoy on the track. It has adequate power (ok so I have a 997S engine in mine), it has no PSM but it is not as big as the newer 911S. Most importantly, they are at the right price point where you can mod them and change them without thinking you are devaluing the car. In fact, while it wont be a true aero, I am colleting parts to build another 996.1 Aero just because of my obsession. My son also recently bough a 996 C4S which is phenominal to drive. So with all of my cars the 996 is the most fun....not the best, but the most fun. Now as far as these car being prone to failure, lets face it, when you track a car you are not only putting yourself at the limits but the car as well. The cars get beat up mechanically and cosmetically. This is true even with new platforms....look at the 991.1 GT3 and all of the engine problems it had...so much so that they had to add a 10 year warrantee. When you build cars that out perform every other car in the market, you have to give up on something....in this case reliability. Otherwise you and I could not afford it or it will weigh to much to get the performance you want. Its all a trade off. If you want most fun per dollar, I still think you want a 996. If you want the best sports car on the planet for the money, get a 991/992. If you want reliability....I hate to say this, get a Toyota (and frankly I don't have anything from that continent). So the bottom line is I hate seeing these stories because it makes people move on to better cars but not necessarily have more fun...and isn't the latter what life is all about. OK...I am done preaching. Once again truly sorry about your loss.

Quotes source post: 16842229

These are toys that are expensive to maintain especially if something goes wrong. I love the driving experience the 996 gives but it hasn't been cheap over all for me either. Especially after having BBi do a suspension package for my car. Life is too short to drive boring cars. My next purchase will be a Tesla. I would say search for the toy you truly love and take this as a learning experience but don't let it sway you from having another Porsche if thats truly what you want.

Quotes source post: 16843082

Empirically, of course what I said is true. That's the main reason why I own a 996! I wouldn't be here if these cars were reliable. Might sound funny, but it's true. The idea of rebuilding the horrific M96 to be better by increasing displacement, while fixing most of the design flaws, is why I'm here. Findng a 986 or 996 as a roller is not a difficult task. They pop up all the time. They are approaching being almost as common as finding a V6 Honda/Acura with a blown transmission. Show me any other cars that are as easy to find as a roller? Even the 350Z with their notorious VQ35DE engines aren't as easy to find with a blown engine. Of all the cars that compete with the 996, most are driven harder. The 996 owners tend to pamper them. Not true for Corvettes, E36 and E46 M3's, 350Z, Mustangs, etc. Most of the 996s with engine failure happen on cars that aren't tracked. Most fail under 3500 RPM. Lol From the data, it's actually better to rev them!

Sorry to hear. Good luck with your next vehicle!

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, OP. This type of "report" (which seems all too common; more so at least for this than other cars that I own (including my 335i which has been known to have wastegate problems that also blows up engines) just gives me the "heebie jeebies" about the "wisdom" of buying my 2000 C4 Cab, which hasn't given me any inkling of any engine problems "yet." I do note that the problem arose duing a track day, which give me some solace because I will never track my car but I do drive it very fast/aggressively on occasion and sh*t does happen. So, who knows what'll happen the next time I decide to push it. Which is why I'm still of a mind to buy a 996TT and sell/trade in my 996 for it. Just need to find a TT in the right color/configuration/price/condition. Been looking for awhile and will continue to do until I find the "right" car for me.

I know the feeling all too well.

Sorry to hear this, what a crappy way to end all this. These cars are now better if owned by those that do all their own repairs otherwise the owner can get upside down in it really fast.

Mark sorry to hear about this. I remember seeing you at PCA Potomac autocrosses many years ago. My first 996, a 2002, had a failed freeze plug back in 2006, luckily was still under warranty. After that though I decided to go back to 944s for awhile, back then they we really cheap, not so much now. Good luck!

Really sad the way this all played out, sorry! I might just keep my spare motor as a back up...

Quotes source post: 16843648

I don't do any of my own repairs and don't "mind" going upside down into a car that I really like (like my 335i that I'm "into" for about $26k (original purchase price $16k and about $10k in "upgrades" -- talk about upside down, LOL!!) but I don't want to own a car that is going to BLOW UP on me and cost me a new engine and $15-20K to fix. Still have this "worry" about my 996 which, as much as I like the car, if I can find the "right" 996TT for the "right" price, I'd be happy to sell/trade in my 996 for it in an instant. Just hope that my 996 doesn't "blow up" in the meantime. LOL!

Fellas, fellas. We can rationalize this however we want, but at the end of the day you all know we are all sick in the head one way or another. Even Mark himself said after all of this he's going to look for a 9A1. Mark - I don't know you but you deserved better. Happy roads ahead.

Thanks to everyone for the comments of support. Yup, it's been rather painful. However, here I am in the middle of all the garbage going on in the world, and I am employed and healthy! Always look on the bright side of life! Lowpue--I agree 100% with your comments about reliability vs. performance. My wife and I have a 2003 Toyota Tacoma that she bought new. It now has something over 560,000 miles and runs quite well with the original motor. It hasn't been abused, but it hasn't led a pampered life either. It was my wife's work truck (she is an equine veterinarian) for 15 years; now it is a farm beater. We did have to replace the transmission and the power steering rack sometime after 400K, and those are pretty much the only major problems we had. That being said, I don't think I would derive any enjoyment at all from taking it out on Road America! I expect my one-and-only child will graduate from college in 2022. Maybe I will get back into the Porsche and/or track game at that time. Yesterday I took the proceeds from the 996 and put them toward the purchase of a 2017 GTI (notice the updated signature). So, that will be a little fun to play with.

Sorry to hear this - at least you had fun and used the car to its fullest potential. I thought I might track my 996 when I bought it, but now I might just keep enjoying it on the roads... Maybe I'll buy a Miata for the track.

I read these threads here and I noted a trend. One takes a 996 on a track and one eventually pay the consequences. As much as we all like to think that the Porsche engineers design these cars for the track, they don't. Take your GT3 to the track, it's made for that purpose. Keep your 996 on the streets, it's made for that purpose. Mark, you had fun. Time to move on with a different car. Good luck.

Oh my brother yelcab, the GT3's go "pop" as well. I think the trend you're noticing is "One takes a car on a track..." My favorite quote: "Which part of 'Porsche Racing' did you think was going to be cheap? The Porsche part? Or the Racing part?"

Quotes source post: 16844187

You are totally right .... Even Formula 1 cars which are probably the best engineered race cars in the world fail quite often on the track.

You can beat the snot out of a 20 year old Vette at the track for far less money, but you�d be driving a plastic fantastic too. They are fast and tough but not as much fun to drive. I�ve looked at a lot of C5 FRCs for this reason. I�m going to go to a rally in the dirt at the end of the month... I may be buying a Subaru after that.

With most other 300-400hp sports car you can pickup a junkyard engine for a few thousands that will most likely be fine. With the 996, not so much. I don't think the 996 are that terrible, just that for every failure we hear about it since there is no good option. It's gonna be expensive. If you blow up your 1999 Corvette you could swap in a cheap truck engine for $1000 or buy a brand new for $7000. So a failed engine is not a big deal

Quotes source post: 16844436

This is true, Corvette interiors are just awful - I had a late C4. Dirt rallies are fun. I used a 98 VW Beetle TDI with a 2 inch lift and road tires in a Rally Cross back in college. Probably the most fun you can have on 4 wheels, legally.

Quotes source post: 16844547

I agree and that truck engine will be quite tough. I really love my 996 though, so I still have it. I don't really want to risk it on the track though.

Quotes source post: 16844621

The C4 Corvette is an experience all unto it's own. It is too electrically complex, and a Chinese toy maker could've made a better interior, but the seats are comfy once you are in them. I had a ZR-1 and it was fast and sounded amazing. It's the C4 Corvette that was wrapped around the LT-5 engine that ruined it.

This is why I will be swapping to an LS at some point in my 996. Best of both worlds that way.

I have never taken my 996 GT3 with 25k miles on the track. Neither have I taken my 1994 Ferrari 348 Challenge on the track. Both were designed for the track but a blown engine runs too deep in my pocket even with free labor. I don't have inclination for tracks anymore, but if I did, a Miata with a roll cage?

Sorry to hear of your bad luck. I have a 2002 996 that I have tracked since 2004 and haven't had any problems with the engine. Over the years I have done every preventive thing that you can do to the car as a "just in case". Yes, it's cost me a lot of money and some day the engine will go. Hopefully far in the future since it only has 55k miles. When it does go, I will have it rebuilt and give Jake a call. The reason is that I love the car. I've driven all the new 911, Boxter and Cayman models on track at the Porsche/Barber Motor Sports School, and while they are incredible machines, extremely fast and very forgiving due to all the electronic aids, they are not as much fun to drive around the track as my 996. Not certain why everyone beats up on the 996. All Porsches are expensive to maintain and ALL have their problems. So do Honda's, Toyota's, Mazdas, etc. But the trade-off is that the above referenced cars are not as much fun to drive around town or at the track. Don't give up on the 996 or Porsche. If you like the driving experience of the 996, but are worried about the engine, get the 996 Turbo or GT3. Both go for reasonable prices and will still give you the " analog" driving pleasure without the "electronic baby sitters" that all the new cars come with. Thanks for posting the message. It's a frustrating and unfortunate series of events. Good luck in your next steps. ​​​

Quotes source post: 16844943

And once you have done the swap an engine failure is more of a hazzle than an economic disaster. Also thinking about it, lots of things being developed for this.

Quotes source post: 16843613

^^THIS^^

Quotes source post: 16844137

What? Where did you get this information from? Do you have any data to back up such a statement?

Quotes source post: 16847664

Hes right. Its not if but when. sorry

Love to see the stats as well. It's easy to throw around opinions, but stats will tell the whole story.

To the OP: I�m sorry to hear your bad news. I�ve had to replace my engine once and I would not do it a second time either. Good luck with the VW and your other automotive adventures. For others on this thread: there is no data on failure rates for any modes of failure on these cars. Even Porsche doesn�t have the data, because they can�t track repairs past warranty. No one knows what percentage of cars fail from IMS, bore scoring, or oil starvation on the track. There is anecdotal evidence from forums like this one, but no empirical data.

Wsrgklt, Tell us your story. What happened and why would you not do it again?

Quotes source post: 16845142

I could see a Miata with an LS transplant making sense...But, I'll never willingly part from my 996!

Quotes source post: 16848654

I bought a car two years ago that turned out to have bore scoring. I replaced it with a a factory short block and now am pretty happy with the car. However, it was emotional and very expensive. If this new engine died, there is no way I could justify the expense of a third engine and I wouldn�t have the heart to do it anyway.

Wsrgklt, Thanks for the response. Sorry to hear about the bore scoring. As mentioned previously in this thread. I have a 2002 996, which I have owned for 18 years and have tracked since 2004 with the Chicago region ranging between 4-8 events a year at Road America, Blackhawk Farms and Autobahn. The last 3 years I have been spotty with events not because I am worried about the car, but instead have been busy with family and business events that seem to happen on track days. This was the year that I was going to get back in the groove, but Covid hit and wrecked the season. ​​​​​​Over the years I have tried to stay on top of potential issues with as much preventative service as possible so I can side step the issues from occurring. It's cost me a lot of money, but in my opinion, it's worth it. The key to making all this work is I use a great Porsche focused shop (Midwest Eurosport), which is a dedicated Porsche Shop that builds, rebuilds, and races every type of air and water cooled Porsche for clients. Early on, before the oil starvation and aos issues became mainstream. Eurosport built me a couple of solutions that were used by the Grand Am teams that raced the same car and engine before the cup cars. I suspect these workaround solutions helped to prolong my engine life. Then I met Charles Navarro at a PCA event where we were both volunteering at tech inspections at Blackhawk Farms, and we were discussing the 996 and 986 engine and the IMS problem among the other items discussed above. He told me about his retrofit kit which was new at the time, it made sense and I got one. It has worked beautifully ever since. I was a lucky SOB who got involved with the PCA at DE events early on and got involved in the community with the right people and companies, providing me the opportunity for effective preventative medicine up to this point. I know that eventually I will need an engine rebuild just like every other engine in every other type of car, and will gladly do it to keep the car. Here is the point, preventative service, parts and procedures are critically important in the 996/986/997/987. Quite frankly, they are critically important to every type of car. I suspect, due to the large number of 996/986's that have been manufactured and sold, there is most likely a large number of owners/previous owners that just did the bare minimum in service, making them a problem waiting to happen. Especially if you track them. Because many of these cars are changing hands, we have a large number of new owners that have bought a used 996 that will eventually have a problem. Without going thru rennlist to tally up every thread, quick mental math suggests the majority of engine problems have occurred with second or third owners. The engine problems aren't the fault of the second or third owners, but instead are most likely the byproduct of insufficient preventive service by the previous owners which is critical to the longevity of these engines. Don't give up on the 996.

@GC996 I haven�t given up on the 996! I had my engine rebuilt and I�m doing all the preventative maintenance required to hopefully make this car last a long time. I also joined the PCA Chicago region, so maybe I�ll see you around at club events or CheckedItOut next year.

Looking forward to it. FYI, my car is a seal grey 02 996 #183. ​​​​​​Trying to make Road America over Labor Day. Should know soon. I'll try to figure out how to send you a private message so we can connect.

Back in the 80s and 90s I had expensive race engines blow on the track. (I still have a Bertil Roos camshaft that is in 6 pieces mounted on a board to remind myself how expensive racing can be --JUST the camshaft cost me 2 months pay in 1988) If you race any engine long enough, you're going to blow the engine. I've prepared my 996 for the track, but I keep thinking that maybe I should just build a Miata for the track instead. I'm tempted to just autox my 996 and not take it onto the track. The "practical" me is competing with the "fun" me.

I hear you. We all wrestle with it, until we get the 996 on the track begin to smile! You only live once. May as well enjoy the track with a Porsche before you can't do it any more.

Here and there I have thoughts of Miata. However, at 6'4" I just don't think that will work very well. I know of some tall Miata drivers, but . . . Maybe I will have to try one on some day. Rotors that cost $25 sound much better for my budget than rotors that cost $250!

Quotes source post: 16849182

I've owned and tracked several Miata's and I really like them (I've owned 5 Mazda's in total including 2 RX7's). Two years ago buying a Miata (to replace the 996) for the track and for pleasure use was precisely my plan. However, after buying the Miata and storing the 996, I sold the Miata six months later and kept my 996. I just couldn't do it, lol. Though, I don't track my 996 and probably will never do so. Mike

Quotes source post: 16843993

Check out the RF"Club Sport" option, BBS wheels, bigger brakes. etc.

Quotes source post: 16844943

A Targa ? 2 wrongs do not make it right !

Quotes source post: 16848389

Exactly How many engines fail because of multiple over revs from people driving on the street and do money shifts when slowing. Or moisture buildup in crankcase from garage queens. It would be impossible to produce data that wasn't bias. Therefore these are opinions.

Quotes source post: 16849638

My Targa is a 2017 Targa GTS. My 996 is a 04 C2 cab with a roll bar and hard top right now. I will be getting a full cage in it over the winter hopefully.

Quotes source post: 16850158

& advertisments disguised as posts, with the more than occasional technical contribution from good normal car people. All cars die, some provide more fun then others before they do. The real problem with the 996 it has depreciated to the point that makes them cheap to acquire while they remain relatively expensive to maintain and that's how people get burned. The OP made a sound economic decision and shared his experiance and thought process for moving on.

A 50 cent part takes out a $20k engine that is just a couple years old ! These are the things as a Technician you never want to forget, but as an owner, you want to forget as soon as possible.

Quotes source post: 16855509

that's true for any machine regardless of age or brand. Stay on your soap box.

Quotes source post: 16855550

Lol........

Mark The engine in my car had this failure when I bought it as a roller , back then naively thinking I could get it running but in the end I bought a used running motor and rebuilt that. Same problem freeze plug in cylinder head popped , Coolant flooded into the head , scavenge dumped coolant in the sump, oil pump sucked it into the crank , grabbed a rod and wrecked the crank. I honestly don't know why they bother with freeze plugs anymore, if you aren't running proper coolant and your block cracks it's tough luck but for plugs to pop under pressure and wreck your engine is not on , personally I'd rather not have them and keep on top of my coolant !

Quotes source post: 16856507

Yup. I didn't even know these freeze plugs existed. When there was some discussion of me paying to rebuild the motor there was mention of threading the holes and putting in threaded freeze plugs. Apparently that is a common thing, but too late for me.

Can anyone tell me more about threaded freeze plugs? How difficult is this to change to? Is this one of Raby's 20-something modes of failure? Does he do this on all his rebuild???

Quotes source post: 16856507

People call them freeze plugs but they aren't that. Most of them are casting ports so they can get the sand out after the block is cast. I don't remember seeing any freeze plugs on my engine when I had it apart. Can you describe the location where the plug came loose?

Quotes source posts: 16855550, 16856507, 16856524, 16857686, 16858230

Well, since you are not going to address this subject any further other than to tell me to stay on my soap box and that it can happen to any machine regardless, I guess I will address it further.. As Immoo mentioned, these are really not "freeze plugs", they are "core plugs", and are necessary to support the sand mold and to allow the sand a passage to escape after the casting has cooled. They were nicknamed freeze plugs by shade tree mechanics who noticed they would pop out if the water froze in the block/head and incorrectly assumed it was to keep the block/head from cracking. They would sometimes crack anyway whether the plug popped out or not.. Not really a common thing, but more common on these 996 heads due to a thinness of the head casting in the area in question, Porsche trying to make them light as possible.but high performance shops want to eliminate as many possibilities as possible. Very few engines come from the factory with threaded core plugs, it is another machining step that costs money to perform, and with hundreds of thousands of engines and several core holes that would need to be threaded, the savings is substantial. 99.9% of all engines that come from the factory's of all brands just use the common core plug to seal the core holes. Would need to be done while the engine was stripped down to bare casting.I don't know if this is included in all of Raby's builds, I have no details on the different processes. "staking" the core plugs in place is a process that can add a little more stability to securing the core plugs and can be done in situ. These core holes and plugs are located in the area these heads normally crack at. If you look at the pictures of cracked 996 heads, you will see some cracks go from the spark plug hole to the core plug and sometimes go from the spark plug hole to the exhaust valve guide. This is a weak area of the heads, some are worse than others( "y2k syndrome?), but could have used a couple more pounds of aluminum here..

Quotes source post: 16868719

Was that ever improved? Does the engine in a 997.1 still have the thin walled head?

Quotes source post: 16869230

I wouldn't say the 997.1 heads are "thicker" but they are more consistent. The late 99 and 2000 year models were the worst offenders. They had what's called a "core shift". The sand molds are made in sections that are assembled before pouring the molten aluminum. If the sections move or "shift" a little during pouring, there will be inconsistencies in the thickness of the casting.It may not be in all castings or may not show up for years/decades, but it has happened enough with cracking and plugs popping out that it was nicknamed "Y2K syndrome"..

Quotes source post: 16869230

No, all 3 chain heads are much more resilient to cracking. When the variable valve timing system changed, so did the pathways within the heads. The only place we see 3 chain heads crack is within the casting, near the SAI channels. These cracks are rare, and under the head junk..

Sorry to hear about the car. How did you sell the roller and how did you determine the asking price? My 01 blew up this past week and I'm looking at a full rebuild versus walking away because I can't afford to spend $25k and have it ever break again.

Quotes source post: 16842229

The freeze plug did not fail or fall out on it's own. It got rattled out once the piston started hitting the cylinder head due the rod bearing being gone. This is pretty common collateral damage after a main bearing and subsequent rod bearing failure. Chris Cervelli Cervelli Technical Service

Quotes source post: 16930985

What failure did your 01 motor have, (If you have determined/diagnosed yet) or what symptoms did you have if the root cause has not yet been determined?

At this point I know parts of the connecting rod bearing is sitting in the sump and I should know more tomorrow. My post was poorly written - I was trying to find out the price for the OP roller to factor into my decision of walking away from mine or doing a proper full build which I expect to cost $20K+. I don't want to put in something that I'm only going to have to turn around and fix in 5 years.

Sucks your engine blew up. I'm saving my pennies now to pay for L&N or or Flat 6 to rebuild mine when the day comes..

Quotes source post: 16931387

Your post was written fine, I understood it completely. It's just that you said your 01 engine "blew up" ( which it kinda did, I would also say an engine blew up when a rod bearing fails) , It's just that failure analysis is kinda my thing and wanted as many details as possible out of curiosity. But I know a detailed analysis cost money/time and with a catastrophic failure most people worry about how to go forward and not so much about the past (what caused the failure)..

Quotes source post: 16930985

I did not do a lot of technical research to come up with a number. I got $7,000 for the car as a roller. I had seen posts on the Internet in various places that indicated ~$6K was about what people were getting for 996 rollers. My car had over 100K miles on it, the carpet was cut in places to accommodate a welded in roll bar, so it would probably not appeal to someone wanting a "nice" street car. So maybe those are some minuses. On the other hand, it had recently installed Ohlins coilovers. For someone wanting to track the car, the roll bar would be a plus.

Quotes source post: 16930985

@VAcurler I feel your pain - I lost my original engine to bore scoring just a couple of months after purchasing my car. FYI there are some options for an engine rebuild that cost considerably less than $25k. Depending on your mode of failure, you may be able to get decent quality rebuild at less than $15k. I know that's still a ton of money to sink into one of these cars, but take your time and weigh your options before making a decision.

Quotes source post: 16934071

wsrgklt, Hope you are doing well. Just checking in to see what you ended up doing with your engine rebuild? I apologize in advance if I missed it on one of the threads if you posted it.

I believe @wsrgklt had his rebuilt from bore scoring years ago and was recommending alternatives to a full rebuild for me. In my case after talking to the experts I decided that dropping $15-$25k didn't make sense to me because this was a fun car but it wasn't my dream car (always wanted a green convertible with beige seats but settled on blue due to availability and hated cruising with others who had comparatively cheap cars but a turbo charger so they'd pull away from me at the apex even though I was faster). I sold the C4 roller for $8500 to someone local a year ago and he was going to fix it up himself. I ended up buying a new BMW M240i Convertible that is superior to the 996 in every way except it's not a Porsche and it brings a smile to my face every time I see it. Unfortunately I can't take it on a track because while PCA allows convertibles, BMWCCA does not. Your post did remind that I have a few random bits and pieces that I need to post here to get out of my garage (original radio, filters, original lug bolts, etc.) I've learned the difference between driving a slow car fast (996) and a fast car slow (F23) so once the kids have their own cars I'll look into something air cooled because even when I had a 996 I thought those older 911s were cooler than what I had even though they were much slower (and ultimately more expensive).

I know this thread is an older one and the rebuild thread older still. That said... Looking through the rebuild it makes no mention of oiling improvements to the engine. It's my understanding the issue that plagues M96s isn't solely remedied by resleeving the blocks. Seems the real problem is lack of sufficient oiling to the heads and various essential bits. Hoping the more knowledgeable folks can chime in. I'm assuming Jake's FSI engines have some solution to the oiling issues that seem prevalent in non-mezger engines. Basically what I'm saying is rebuilding an M96 and bumping it up to 3.8 or 4.0 doesn't always solve the issue. Still going to have oil starvation to the pass side head

A basic "rebuild" won't address this. My reconstruction does address this, and has since day #1. There's a reason why you don't hear about our engines failing on the track, and that's because of what's inside, not isn't just "bolted on" as a kit, or etc. Talk to guys like @ltusler who has been living this fact since 2008 with his 996 that has logged thousands of track miles, after the original X51 engine snapped a crankshaft in half. I'll have one owner on my "customer roundtable" tonight who has 5 years and 8,000 track only miles on his FSI Stage III track engine. See it LIVE at this link starting at 7 PM eastern time. You Tube

Quotes source post: 17725472

Sam-Son, I think you just made an incredibly important point. Be kinda crazy to rebuild your engine into something bigger and faster if it doesn't address the oil starvation issue. Not exactly certain what FSI does to address it beyond more oil cooling. We know what Hartech does to address it, having discussed it in his white papers as well as the Oil Stability thread. Once the UIDS comes out, add in the UAOS with drainback and an oil cooler, we may have a comprehensive solution that addresses the issue fully. However, I would guestimate, that we haven't heard the last of the X51 dual scavenge pumps that LN and Martin have manufactured, nor have we heard the last of what Hartech has done with their version of the pump and acusump feed they use to create a dry sump system. A wild *** guess tells me that we will be seeing more innovation going forward for the M96. As long as all of these things are able to be bolted on, you can add them to any rebuild. Who knows, maybe FSI addresses oil flow/starvation/oil pressure stability with some very innovative structural inventions in the Track purpose rebuilds beyond just cooling. I for one would love to hear more about it.

This is loosely covered in my Webinars, next week's sales webinar has limited content on this, but it is covered. It has never been put into writing, and won't be. Purchasers learn about this, and ask any question they want. ​​​​​​​ Not one single thing makes the difference.

Sounds like a good candidate for an LS3 swap.

Quotes source post: 17725613

​​​​​​​Watched your broadcast last night. Good to hear the many different stories and requirements. I'll tune in next week. Your ace-in-the-hole is the same as Baz's. You guys solve for oil starvation and oil pressure stability through oil flow improvements and in your case, you pay attention to cooling. Very few engine builders solve for these issues. Don't know if it's stupidity or laziness. My guess is both. Why rebuild, add 100 extra HP and not solve for starvation?! Looking forward to hearing more about how you address them next week.

Quotes source posts: 17725536, 17725577

I tuned in. Lots of great info! I also watched your shakedown of the R43 which was enticing to say the least. I figured you guys probably have some recipe to address this issue. To me the oiling/cooling issues on the stock M96 are the BIGGEST issues. A rebuild to fix bore scoring and a bump in power output is nice but for me a rebuild MUST address oiling and cooling and make the M96 as robust as a mezger unit. Otherwise it's just a matter of time until the car gets swapped for something else. which would suck as I love driving my 996 anyone know where to procure those H2 Engineering scavenge pumps?

Quotes source post: 17732562

I spent the better part of the last two years looking for ways to address it with bolt-on solutions to prolong engine life as well as identifying engine builders who truly address it. We all owe Zbomb a big thanks because he took the steps to organize the topic into a thread "Oil Pressure Instability" that identified the issues and defined the many bolt-on solutions that are already available (CTS, LN, UAOS) as well as new products that are in the works (UIDS, LN Oil Cooler). Most importantly, Zbomb and everyone involved on the thread continued to push forward towards resolution, with Jason providing an incredible level of transparent testing and measurement. Can't wait for the next round of this thread. I am pretty convinced that we have what we need to prolong engine life with what's available today and what will be available shortly. Quite frankly, we will all be focused on how to best apply these new solutions in 2022 for optimal results. I don't worry about "structural" engine re-builds that address starvation and cooling. While many builders don't like to discuss how they do it, I suspect there are a core group of builders that do in fact structurally address the issue in their rebuilds. Hartech has provided details, FSI has provided broad reference to solutions, and we all know that LN provides many of the components. Let's remember that most folks didn't want to spend the money on a comprehensive rebuild when 996s were worth 18k. Now that they are worth substantially more, it creates demand for innovation and more comprehensive solutions. ​​​​​​ We are in a 996 Rennasaince. No need to sell anyone's 996.

Quotes source post: 17732779

That certainly seems to be the case. Hopefully the next few years continue to see the 996 revival continue to thrive and the cars get the recognition they deserve. If not for the resale values but for the aftermarket support. Closely watching Zbomb's thread.

Forgot to answer your question on the X51 Dual Scavenge Pump. Both LN Engineering and H2 (Martin) offer an aftermarket X51 dual scavenge pump for sale. I believe that LN also offers the oil tube. But as of right now, I am not certain if anyone has worked thru an "aftermarket" process to add the pump and oil tube. Nor do we know if it will be needed after we optimize the use of the UAOS w/oil return, UIDS, Oil Cooler, as well as if a 2QT or 0.9qt deep sump extension will add any incremental advantage towards further addressing oil starvation or stability. Next year will be the year of measuring and testing for all of us. ​​​​​​I was planning on starting a thread on the X51 pump and Oil pipe topic after we had fully optimized the set-up mentioned above. IMHO it would not be worth the time to do it now since we have such promising product developments. All this is independent of a "structural" rebuild that addresses starvation and stability within the engine thru internal machining enhancements and externally with bolt-on modifications. If no-one is doing any internal machining work to improve oil and coolant flow within the engine, then the X51 pump and oil pipe may be needed. But I will leave that up to the engineers to figure out. It's beyond my skill-set. What we are trying to do here is use bolt-on solutions that prolong engine life to push off the eventual rebuild of a 20 year old engine to a much later date. All of which will give us the time to figure out everything that we want in a rebuild and what each engine builder offers for a solution set. To me, we are currently in a 996 sweet spot that's a win-win.

Quotes source post: 16843115

And did it survive.???

George, What's going on with your car?

When I worked for Steve Saleen he always said,"Brace it before you race it !