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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHOil analysis results - IMS issue?
Leading reported evidence
Replace i have some history
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I have some history on the car but no indication the IMS has been changed.
Leading evidence: 'Replace i have some history' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'cracked overflow tank' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check with magnet' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Easily replaced with a brass male male hose barb from the hardware store.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I went to a Porsche dealer for this oil change being my first one and they used Mobil 1 0w40.
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Suspected cause · Original poster
I suspect a cracked overflow tank, but I suppose it could be a hose leak too, won't know until I get in there.
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39 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Hi everyone, first time poster here.
I bought a 2001 cabrio 996 last November, parked it all winter and pulled it out in June. I did my first oil change in August and sent a sample to Blackstone. Their results show higher than average levels of copper (21), lead (22), and tin(7ppm). I cut open the filter and I see smaller metallic particles. The largest piece was about the size of a sesame seed.
I have some history on the car but no indication the IMS has been changed. One owner put in a race clutch, the next owner didn't like it and put in a dealer clutch again, this last work order didn't include an IMS bearing and I don't have details on the race clutch work order.
My guess is all the signs are pointing to changing the IMS. I have done some reading but there is so much information out there. Which option offers the greatest piece of mind? Direct oil feed, ceramic, Porsche replacement part??
Also, how do I know if I have single row or dual row. This car is a 2001 996 with a January build date.
I'm at your mercy now. Thanks.
I'll give it a go. Not an expert, just a failed IMS survivor and renn list addict.
IIRC an oil analysis does not doe much if there is metal in the filter, so step 1 is post a pic of the filter for opinions. If there is a lot of metal in the filter, then time to drop the pan. If not much an oil change and magnetic drain plug may be in order.
As far as replacement bearings read the stickies and put some time aside for a search of this site. That decision then will be up to you. They all have the pluses and minuses.
Are the metal bits ferrous? Check with magnet.
One UOA means little. You don't know if wear metals are going up or down. Need more data points.
Lead is high. Are you, or was there history, of race gas used? Even unleaded race gas??
Lead and copper are dermis layers of main and rod bearings. Not the IMSB.
Sounds like the car was tracked.
The IMS Solution is the only permanent fix available. Don't confuse that with some acronym that uses an oil feed line, too.
JR you better relax. I think these guys posting new IMSB threads are trying to push you over the edge.
And to the OP; I think the "race clutch" should have been your red flag, bruh.
I've attached a couple pictures of the filter.
What does it mean if the particles stick to a magnet? They do.
KrazyK - You're right however I didn't find this info out until after I bought it. I bought it from a used car dealership and only when I saw the title and contacted the previous owner did I find out more info. I didn't see the title until after it was transferred to me.
In hindsight the words the Porsche mechanic told me after the PPI should have tipped me off. He said, the car is in great condition, however heavily modified so if something were to happen it might be difficult to get parts. It has short shifter, Fabspeed headers, cat X pipe and exhaust, a nice E-Voms air intake, so the likelihood of it being tracked is possible.
If the lead present is from race gas, is there anything I can do? Should I be concerned?
Mostly I'm reaching out to see if you guys think I have a problem or a time-bomb on my hands and if there is anything pro-active I can do (aside from selling, obviously, or I wouldn't be on here). I love the styling, the sound, the speed, I love everything about this car and just want to keep it running a very long time.
Filter looks about normal..
Do another UOA and send it to cat, or Analysts Inc, forget Blackstone.
Copper in UOA concerns me more than anything else, as it only comes from main and rod bearings. The copper is the 3rd layer of wear metals found in a bearing, and the last metal to wear before the bearing fails. Seeing lead with this (2nd layer of wear metal in the main and rod bearings) further confirms my hypothesis. Tin is found in the mains and rods as well, but the 7 value is normal.
There is NO other source of copper within this engine family.
If the anti- wear package in the oil is being depleted, and visq is dropping quickly, all those things point to a bad future.
BUT do more UOA and send them elsewhere. The 21 and 22 ppm values aren't off the chain, but they tell us a lot.
How many miles on the car?
As far as single vs double row IMS I don't think anyone has said it specifically. but you won't know until you take it apart
How many miles were on the oil that you drained in August? What oil was in the car? What oil did you refill with?
Change the oil again in about 1,000 miles and retest with Blackstone.
Start using a better oil than Mobil 0W40. One like:
1) Mobil 5W50
2) Motul 5W40 8100 X-cess
I'm not sure what was in there before. It had close to 3,000 miles on it if the used car dealer changed it before I took delivery like I asked him too. It's possible he didn't and just told me he did, so the oil might of had more.
I went to a Porsche dealer for this oil change being my first one and they used Mobil 1 0w40. Blackstone suggested I retest at 2,000 so your 1,000 isn't far off. By checking again am I looking and hoping that these numbers are declining?
Change again at 1,000 miles. And re-test. Buy pre-paid Blackstone kits in groups of 6. Saves you a little money. Send sample UPS. Much faster than US mail. I get result back in about 4 days of shipping sample.
Don't use Mobil 0W40.
Learn to change you own oil.
Can you post the entire UOA report from Blackstone?
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/1270x1503/2015_09_02_09_17_06_3c81e0eb040cd9a15f4c09e6ca0b9b1f4fd7ba6b.jpg
^That oil is
W A Y
out of spec for a 0W40. Zinc and phosphorus is very low, and the SUS and cSt are super low. Doubt that is a Mobil product. Also doubt it was a 0W40. Good thing you got that oil out.
Re-test in about 1,000 miles, use a better oil, buy a magnetic drain plug from L&N Eng. (careful of torque spec.....only 19 ft.lbs.) and update this post in October.
Watch out with that recommendation to move away from 0w-40 oil.
The OP is in Canada and if he drives the car in the winter likely he will encounter low temps and Porsche recommends 0w-40 oil for ambient temps -25C or lower.
Mobil 0w-40 is not the problem with the OP's engine it is the usage it received by its previous owner(s).
Dual row IMS Solution is coming before the end of the year - if not, it will be late winter/early spring at the latest. The DLC coating process used to be done in the US and the company moved operations to France, which adds a bit more complexity...
my local CAT dealer charges ~$18 for an UOA, its cheaper than Blackstone, but the report is much harder to read. Don't know if they tally more than one report on the same page so yo can easily compare one UOA to the next
For CAT, you buy the sample kit and then mail it (postage paid IIRC) or drop ot off at the local dealer
For Blackstone, contact them and they will send you sample kits for free. You mail the sample back to them (you pay for postage)
CAT is ~$18
Blackstone is $25
I found CAT to be a little faster in getting results. I dropped my sample off and had the results the next day. With Blackstone, I mailed the sample with 1st class postage and go the results 2-3 weeks later. In fairness, I think most of that delay was mailing time to Blackstone
Thanks.
The FAQs on the Blackstone site are amusing
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/faq.php
"But I need to yell at someone. How about you? Can I call up and yell at you?
Knock yourself out."
"How about tape? Will it help if I tape the hell out of it?
Apparently everyone loves tape. We get so much tape on oil sample containers that we should be in the used-tape business. But you know what doesn't work very well? Scotch tape. Don't do it. It's really not any good. Our apologies to the Scotch tape people. Now electrical tape...that's tape we can respect."
People like Blackstone because of their comments and generalities at the top of the report.
That's exac why I don't care for them, on top of them charging extra for TBN and TAN values. Those are two things that we use analyses for most.
I have seen their comments be completely off base, and they never comment on low Visq levels, or anti wear package depletion. It's just wear metals, and I have seen UOA that would scare me to death, and they just say"check it again, later".
Thanks Trip! I've only had a chance to drive it for about 3 months now and have fallen in love with it. I'm really hoping things work out and that it will continue to perform for a while. I can hardly expect the car to be perfect when it's almost 15 years old and has over 100,000 miles on the clock, but as long as I get a few years of enjoyment from it I will be happy.
Thank you to everyone how has replied too I'm going to keep driving it and hopefully I can put on enough miles before I park it for the winter to get another analysis to see where the numbers are going.
No I saw that part. It wasn't clear at all if the OP intended to do that every year.
It is risky to make a blanket statement regarding what oil to use or avoid without covering the in this case the climatic factors that should be considered when selecting an appropriate oil.
Looks like I won't be updating the oil issue for a while. I need to investigate why I have a puddle of Rad Fluid on my garage floor. I suspect a cracked overflow tank, but I suppose it could be a hose leak too, won't know until I get in there.
There is a stupid little plastic hose barb in the coolant line to the AOS just above your puddle that is prone to leak. Similar to the one right behind the belt in the middle of the motor. Don't ask me how I know. Easily replaced with a brass male male hose barb from the hardware store.
