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YOUR RESEARCHpuff of smoke on the track - from what?
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Adjust 986, i just haven't had the time
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@ Joseph, there are about 30 different parts for the 996 UAOS kit, about half of them will need to be adjusted for the 986, I just haven't had the time with hand assembly , keeping up with ordered of parts, shipping ect.
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The 8.7 quart dipstick was a running change installed from engine number 662 11795 on to help with smoking on high G-force turns at the track.
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Probably true....but I only ran 2 laps with the oil level at 1/2 full.
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My car has the 2 quart deep sump and i run Joe Gibbs oil.
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Adjust 986, i just haven't had the time
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@ Joseph, there are about 30 different parts for the 996 UAOS kit, about half of them will need to be adjusted for the 986, I just haven't had the time with hand assembly , keeping up with ordered of parts, shipping ect.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Solved it for the 986 by stopping taking it to the track.
posting about my Boxster here because this forum gets a lot more traffic than the Boxster forum...
was on the track with my 99 Boxster yesterday; base engine has 125k miles; no mods except exhaust, deep sump with baffles, and underdrive pulley. Mobil1 10W40 oil, running about 1-2 lines below max on the dash gauge. OEM Porsche AOS done about 4k ago.
after a sweeping left hander, i saw a large billow of white smoke from rear of the car going down the straight. Lasted 1-2 seconds. No CEL, and never happened again the rest of the day.
any thoughts? did I just blow a little extra oil through the intake?
Not to put fear in your heart....I had a similar issue a few years back generally at the end of a long sweeping right on the track....every now and then a puff... everyone at the track said it's AOS, which was just put in....my mechanics said it's AOS and that likely oil level was too high. Was told to keep oil at half full mark. So I sucked out some oil to get to half full. So on my next track day I went out and saw a puff of smoke on the first lap after sweeping right then on the second lap on that same turn the engine blew...oil starvation on the crankshaft. Catastrophic failure....I would do an oil analysis to see if a crank bearing has worn.
Very likely you had an AOS problem, and could have been intensified by increased blow-by. That's why I have suggested a blow-by test for anyone who drives these engines hard, especially on the track.
Lowering the oil level to stop oil ingestion is what caused the oil starvation/bearing failure.
Probably true....but I only ran 2 laps with the oil level at 1/2 full. Can imagine that much damage to a crank bearing with just a couple of sweeping turns. On top of that why would the guys from one of the premier race shops here recommend to lower oil level. The fact that there are so many different viewpoints tells me the lubrication for these cars is still a black magic. Either way, I would still analyze the oil.
Two laps is absolutely enough to ruin an engine that's low on oil.
I recently saw a video of a kid who let someone drive his car one lap at an autoX. Spun the bearing.
Why they gave you that recommendation is anyone's guess. It's like asking a doctor to tell you why you have an ache while standing in line at the grocery store. Until they actually dive in to diagnose, any advice they give is just a guess. Can even be bad advice.
I locked up a race engine in the early 80's in 1.5 seconds from low oil pressure.
I had change the oil and filter the night before and didn't notice the oil filter o-ring/gasket had stuck to the block. Ran about 8 passes and was in the final round, the double o-ring/gaskets failed on the starting line just before the green light.(trail of oil for about 60 feet) Engine locked up in second gear at 8k rpm. Didn't spin the bearing or break the rod ( very strong rods), it actually bent the crankshaft !!!
If an engine can fail in 4.5 miles with oil at the halfway mark vs full mark does that not indicate bad engineering? Supposedly it should be good anywhere in the recommended range...no?
Anyway I am pretty convinced it was due to a high percentage of the 57k miles being track time....now I have 3.8 and I came out ahead on fun though maybe not in the wallet 😃
I don't know if I can call "bad engineering"on this , but I definitely call if "complicated engineering". Running it almost a quart low on a track is very risky, I think you paid the price.
And yes, 57K of hard miles is definitely a factor and why I keep insisting people check their blow-by/engine health. Just think, 57k miles is almost equivalent to running the Daytona 500 about 114 times !!
Sweepers are often nasty to Boxsters (and 996s). I've had smoke bombs at the track. Running the oil lower tends to mitigate this problem but, as others have mentioned, can cause other problems. I would strongly suggest a deep sump made by Mantis Sport here in Canada, or by LN and others in the US. I use the Mantis Sport 2 litre sump kit and then run with 1 or 2 bars below full. This means that there is still lots of oil being fed into the engine but there's no oil being sloshed into the AOS to cause problems. My opinion based on my experience.
loupue, are you talking about halfway between the top mark and bottom mark? That is the recommendation from Jake and several others (measured cold) I thought.
You also need to be aware that some of the newer 996 engines have longer dipstciks and re-calibrated electronic dash gauges to have a lower oil level from the Factory as to help with smoking on long sweepers on the track. If you have an engine with the longer dipstick/re-calibrated dash, AND you run it low on the stick/dash, you will be VERY low on oil level !!!
I'll see if I can dig up the Factory info on identifying the longer dipstick changes ect...
May be the start of AOS failure, but not necessarily. Are you running a full oil level? (as measured on the dipstick). It should be about halfway between the low mark and the full mark. Were you getting any puff of smoke upon start-up prior to a track session? Do you shut the car off immediately after coming in from the track? If either of those last two, let it idle for a minute or two when you come in off the track before shutting off. Otherwise, get the AOS tested.
God does this sound familiar. I have one AX and three HPDE events under my belt withing the last 6 months. My car has the 2 quart deep sump and i run Joe Gibbs oil. I have had a smoke show one time every event. Every time is scares the crap out of me. I make sure i have my oil set just above the 1/2 point on the dipstick. Never have i had a performance issue or engine light. My AOS is original so i hope thats my issue. Every time i take the car out to the track i feel like its going to blow up after reading all the threads on this forum. Sometimes i wish i never found Rennlist so i could just enjoy the car. Although it prob would be a good idea to swap my AOS before i do blow it up.
i think the more important question is........where in the heck did you find an open track event during this pandemic?!
You know it takes 3 minutes for a mechanic to test the aos, ignourance is not blis on this one. Even if u wanted to do it yourself its less then a $50 tool investment.
I always chalked it up to oil expansion. I know when I set mine at about half bars cold, at the track, between runs its up over the full mark. As I remember, low mark to full mark is approximately 1.25L, so half way between would be about .6L, which could be accounted for in expansion considering 9L of total volume.
Oh, and I check my AOS with a slack tube manometer several times a year and all working good. I never get smoke on track, but will get a puff on startup between sessions before I started running the oil level at mid-point.
I'm using the 2 litre (roughly 2 qt). The OP has a Boxster as I do. The 2 litre is the best option for this car as it is really not too low to cause any problems. Using this and running a bar or two below full should solve your problems. Anecdote: Last year, after installing a rebuilt engine in my 986, I had a smoke bomb so big that they red flagged the track (they thought that I was on fire!). The ambulance guys came out waving their fire extinguishers and I had to calm them saying, no no, there's no fire! I realized that my oil level had risen to over full with the expansion of the oil due to heat (I know, I know). I dropped the level about half a litre and it never happened again.
This was exactly my earlier point. How can a layman like me know what the right thing to do when the experts I respect don't even agree on where the oil level should be. Like I always say, these engines have a bit of black magic going on. Now I have a 3.8 with deepsump, but I am just resigning to the fact that at some point I will need to put in another engine because no one really knows how to make these damn things bullet proof except maybe Flat6.
not sure who the question is addressed to, but I have the 2 qt LN sump with baffle
AOS is pretty new. No smoke on start up, but I do shut the engine off pretty quick after getting to the paddock. I looked at the oil level on the dash - didn't check the actual dipstick. Again it was 2 lines below full.
LOL Eagles Canyon Raceway in Decatur TX has open track days once a month.
https://eaglescanyon.com/#OpenTrackDay
I didn't spend too much time looking for my paper material and since I'm retired I don't have electronic access to the Porsche After Sales site, but I remember the "need to know" stuff. Here it is..
Pic 1 is the 9.3 quart dipstick, pic 2 is the 8.7 quart dipstick, identified by the "ears" on the stick.
The 8.7 quart dipstick was a running change installed from engine number 662 11795 on to help with smoking on high G-force turns at the track.
IF an newer engine was installed that had the newer dipstick, the instrument cluster was to be re-programed/re-calibrated to use the 8.7 quart dipstick instead of the 9.3 quart dipstick.
If you are running the 8.7 dipstick AND setting the level at HALF full, you are running at about 1 quart low from the original design !!! ( a deeper sump is a must in this situation)..
9.3 quart dipstick
8.7 quart dipstick ( has the "ears" on it )
LOL,, No nothing to worry about, just info everyone needs to know if they are driving the cars HARD (track environment).
And listen to people who really know..
I just crawled underneath my car and looked.
I have engine number 66207439.
That makes sense, when I change my oil I add 10.5qts and I’m near the middle of the dipstick, maybe slightly lower.
(+2qt deep sump)
Porschetech
Not to derail this thread. But im confused and your info may help my issue. My dipstick has the ears. Yet the mitchell data base we use at work indicates my car, an 04 C4S, takes 9.25 qts. I also have a 2 qt LN deep sump with the spin on filter. I have always been doing 11 qts with my oil change. Oil was changed weeks ago. Dipstick shows slightly (1/8th inch) overfilled and the onboard shows max level - car has been sitting for a week. During track events i would always dump about a half quart to maintain half way on the stick and the onboard matches.
If i understand you info correctly. My "with ears" dipstick should be 8.7 qts and not 9.3 as indicated by the service manual we use?
Your opinion?
edit: just checked that thing no one reads. I think its called an owners manual. It also says 8.7 qts with filter. WTF!
I experienced exactly the same with both 986 and 996. Solved it for the 986 by stopping taking it to the track. Not so easy with the 996 as it has become my track car. Last year I switched to the Porsche motorsports AOS - problem solved!
While the Porsche Motorsports AOS is arguably better than stock, there are instances of the Motorsports AOS failing too. Certainly less likely, but don't think it can't happen.
Yep, you have the "ears" it is the 8.7 quart dipstick, your owners manual is correct.
There is many bad info/specs out in the wild, hell even Porsche botches the info a lot, mostly due to translation issues though.
"There is no substitute for experience."
I have never had an AOS failure but I have experienced lots of smoke screen on track with the stock AOS, both in the 986 and the 996. First time it happened I was sure I had major engine damage. Since installing the motorsports AOS I have not seen any smoke at all. Not saying it will never fail but so far I'm very happy with it.
that's good to know, thanks for posting. if only I could justify such a large expense for such a cheap engine!
Porschetech3 - you going to develop your UAOS for the 986?
@ Joseph, there are about 30 different parts for the 996 UAOS kit, about half of them will need to be adjusted for the 986, I just haven't had the time with hand assembly , keeping up with ordered of parts, shipping ect. I am trying to recruit some help/trainees ect to get the load off me so I can spend time/invest in developing the 986 UAOS.
I'm pretty old, and suppose to be retired..lol but couldn't help myself to get back to doing this kind of stuff with such a good invention, it just needs to be done, and I need the money !! It is a lot easyer work than being a Porsche Technician ( which I am not physically able to do anymore), but I am still very slow at whatever I do !!
I have had several request/inquiries for the 986 UAOS, but not overwhelming.I think they just came accross it here on the 996 forum.) Of course I am not advertising or trying to expand, I am just supplying our 996 community for now, we will see how it goes. It will eventually be available for the 986, it took 3 months to develop the 996 UAOS ,so probably near the end of the year
