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YOUR RESEARCH996-gen Porsche 911 Classic Club Coupe
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Adjust on the 996.2
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Every mistake they made on the 996.1 retro will be adjusted on the 996.2.
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The price or cost of something is always debatable, this year I replaced my upstairs ac unit with a 3 ton seer one.
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It's pretty clear Porsche followed a similar formula they already used for the 997 Sport Classic - which was never sold here.
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These engines are still widely used by race teams.
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also FSI is not the only place that can do a good rebuilds on these engines, we can probably all agree that FSI is probably the premier or most expensive way.
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Sure wish PCA NA would have pushed the Porsche Factory to use the M96 on this car with factory engineered enhancements to solve the issues we have all been solving.
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premier or most expensive way
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also FSI is not the only place that can do a good rebuilds on these engines, we can probably all agree that FSI is probably the premier or most expensive way.
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But why add a gt3 power and not make a better aero ala Jake raby or LNE that would have impressed me more from Porsche from them
that doesn’t mean it’s not a special car but it’s really just a 996gt3 reduction
You kinda missed the point there... With the 996 being recognized as a classic by Porsche it classifies for their Classic restoration program, which is what they have done here. The restored and improved the car from frame up and this is a nice way of showing what's possible. This is not about showing how powerful of an engine they can put together. Why would they want an FSI or LN engine in there? It's a great marketing program for something that has existed for all air cooled cars for a while and now is available for the 996. For this reason, I don't believe any of the claims that parts for our cars are not available or that you can't get engines or blocks. That stuff is available and probably will be for a while, however, mostly through their Classic program.
No my point was why didn’t Porsche honor the car that started the 911 water cooled era and build a 996 911 not a half breed from the parts bin part 996 part gt3
I think the use of an engine that came years later because the one they originally designed failed they could of showed the world the 996 911 could be even better today but an aftermarket duck tail and gt3 engine from 996.2 really doesn’t give justice to 996.1
besides Dejeeper already built one
996.1 GT3 already existed. US just didn't get a 996 GT3 till .2. Treat this as what if Porsche made a GT Touring during the 996 era. IMHO, this would be it.
They clearly wanted to build a special 996 using some great factory parts and some well imagined aesthetic touches and I think they succeeded 100%. Whereas you think the car with the Mezgar is a half-breed, I think completely the opposite. A 996 with a Mezgar IS the pinnacle of 996, not a worked over stock motor.
From a special, heritage and performance standpoint, I love what they did.
Look I totally respect the praise and recognition that Porsche bestowed on the 996 it’s well deserved
but in my opinion Im thinking what could have been that’s all
I respect the gt3 and hopefully will have one sooner rather then later
The issue with the Mezgar engine swap is you need the gearbox too and they are, as the motors are... really expensive. One of the reasons it makes so much sense to go the
@De Jeeper
route and start with a car.
No question. He has the entire car which was a bit dented on one corner. He is weighing his options. But we did talk about swapping a few parts. But to your point, it would be very expensive. De Jeepers swap was a good one. I suspect come the next recession, a couple of GT3 engines will be for sale. Given what we know about the availability of M96 blocks, who knows, there may be a way to get a GT3 block. You never know until you ask. It all comes down to how much you want to spend...
This car demonstrates what always catches my eye: the 996 evokes that feeling of a classic 911 and an understanding that it belongs. It might be the lines, or the proportions, or the overall balance of design, performance and quality. What a view, can't be beat by anything later.
I actually don�t love the graphics, the wheels, or the stance (still has too much wheel gap). I think overall it could have been a little better. Also would have liked to see the regular M96 engine in it with upgrades from Porsche. A new body kit or just the plain body without GT3 kit also would have been nice. Reason being� we�ve already seen plenty 996.1 GT3 cars or aerokit cars. We�ve seen that same ducktail. But I�m not complaining� anything Porsche does to celebrate the 996 should be applauded. The interior is real nice.
Do people really think porsche is going to spend the time and money to develop upgrades for an engine nearly 15 years out of production for some limited production model when they already had a more robust more powerful engine in inventory?
They key may be to get the background story on who asked for what.
Did the PCA go to Porsche and say, "do what you think is best"; or did they make suggestions such as, "if you have any extra GT3 engines laying around, can we have one"; or did the PCA ask for an M96 X51 with Porsche's "best ideas" and Porsche said no. We need to know the answer.
Porsche and the PCA had to know that the release of the retro 996 will open a can of worms. Maybe they have a plentiful supply of 996 GT3 engines that they are willing to sell. Who knows. Either way, it creates more options for us as the questions are asked and they are answered.
The PCA and Porsche have jump started the retro-moding revolution. Let's see what info they share and what answers they provide to the questions on the 996.1 classic retro. Wouldn't be surprised that the 996.2 classic retro is already being discussed. Every mistake they made on the 996.1 retro will be adjusted on the 996.2. Just the way it works.
I certainly would like to know what this overall project cost.
Add/Edit: Something to think about. What-if the retro-mod cost was 100k. You buy a donor car for 15k that's on its last legs and send it to Porsche and for 115k you get a car that will be worth at least what a GT3 is going for if not more, because it was done by Porsche. But what if it cost 150k to do? Do you do it. Will Porsche even offer the service to the general public in the future? Lots of questions need to be answered. Can of worms have been opened for sure.
Porsche still supplies all the parts for the Mezger engines, and I believe they supply complete engines. These engines are still widely used by race teams. So getting a "spare" gt3 engine is simple. Paying for it - that's another story, the last time I looked they were around $60k from Porsche. Part# is 996-100-979-01.
I see both sides of what you all are saying but I just don�t see why this isn�t a good thing? I applaud the effort because 996 press is good press for current owners. I do feel it�s the same thought in regards to the 996 cars being the ugly ducklings so anything that Porsche does with 996s, will be scrutinized the same way.
Hah! So we are starting at 100k just for new engine and trans. Doesn't count the cost of the donor car. new parts or labor. Great exercise for someone with a couple of hundred grand that is dying to have a brand new GT3 ish.
Anybody want to take a guess what the cost all in is for the resto-mod not counting the donor car? My guess is 165k.
Regardless, I love that Porsche did this and formally kicked off the 996 retro-mod revolution.
@De Jeeper
you just got your first semi-appraisal of your" De Jeeper GT3ish " build ..
I said long ago that you had moved to the head of the class ..
I'm just tickled some branches of Porsche hasn't totally forgotten us "996 lovers" ..
The story of the unique "woven leather inserts " is a very nice touch...
If you're going to post high res pics and make claims of "no expense spared" then I have to point out things I find sloppy. That graphic on the front bumper looks like it's running uphill at any angle because of the factory body line. As for the side skirts I'm not saying anyone else's fit any better but this was a costly full rebuild. In general I like the car and everything the program stands for but these stuck out like a sore thumb in that pic.
My opinion is it just seams not that thought out of a project and I’m very pleased that Porsche even acknowledged the 996
but which model is the center of attention is it the GT3 drive or the 996 c2 body or the heritage ducktail or Fuchs
every generation has this look after the original 911rs
if get my bitch here then understand me it just could have more special and specific
Because the mezger unit is a better engine. Putting a mezger unit in a non-mezger car is definitely more work than rebuilding an original M96. Ask De Jeeper.
Not sure why you want better aero... Is this for actual performance gains or looks? Also, the way that sentence reads to me makes it sound like FSI or LN makes any aero products, which they clearly don't. Should I be ever in a position to have a GT3 engine swapped in and this became more mainstream, I'd be first in line. From cost perspective, if you look at any of the resto mod companies out there for air cooled cars, even excluding the Singer stuff, a new $60k Mezger and $40k transmission is a bargain by comparison. Many of those engine builds alone reusing the stock engine cases go to $100k easily. Add ITBs and other improvements and that number grows even higher.
I get that the mezger gt3 is the 996 pinnacle but that’s not what they rebuilt they rebuilt an aero with a gt3 engine
I wasn’t looking for a better by LN or Jake raby 996 i was looking for Porsche to be better then them since they’re the originator and factory
if you wanted the best 996 just buy A 996 GT3 but buying a mezger shelf engine and putting it into a 996 aero is 1 too costly and 2 what skills and parts list do you need
as well as in my thinking lacks imagination from Porsche factory
Clearly understand your thoughts. Absolutely agree that Porsche should have come out with something based on the M96. Glad they came out with a Classic Coupe. Like you, would have preferred something more imaginative with an M96 that we could learn from. There is a story behind this. Can't wait to hear it.
Right , but this is a Show/Dream car, A 1 of 1 build...Meant to inspire and raise money for PCA, it will be raffled off next year after a Tour around the County. I have bought several of the $50 PCA Me3mbers ONLY raffle tickets in hopes of winning a new 911 , but the Porsche Gods didn't bless me with one..
The big question is, If you were to spend $50 bucks for a Members Only Raffle Ticket, and WON ,would you want this Classic Club Coupe or a 2023 911, or just the cash !!!
Definetely not the 2023 911. It will take a doctorate in electrical engineering to figure out how to keep it running.
Probably take the cash so I can resto-mod my 996.2 the way I want. I would also use the money to buy 2 UIDS's. One for my car and one as a piece of art. I would call it "A Modern Day Bernini" and put it on a pedestal in my office.
Just saying.
I'd take cash so I could afford to buy the ducktail for my car.
Also I never win the Cobras I buy tickets for, even when they give me those free extra ones. Maybe it's my deodorant.
I agree with you on the sticker but the 'gap' between side skirts and fender is actually correct. Where the fitment of the skirt is lacking is below the door, where it also should have this distance between skirt and door sill.
Technically speaking I find it interesting they used the combo of aero front bumper skin and ducktail at the back as the ducktail negates rear lift less than the taco rear wing does.
As the combo of aero front and Carrera fixed wing/spoiler was offered by Porsche I take it that the ducktail negates rear lift as well as the Carrera rear wing (and better than the standard retractable one).
Personally I find the exterior hints to models of the past predictable and tbh out of context on a generation of 911 that is considered all new that has nothing (bodywise) in common with earlier generations.
Porsche taking inspiration from a 996 gt3r and make it wide bodied now that I would have liked!
I love this car. Wonder how she drives? Dreaming of building one? IMO it�s too $$ for what you get performance wise.
Cause if and when I have $250k laying around, it�s all going to a newer gt3.
I doubt another will ever be made, De Jeeper aside of course. He is a legend.
bmw did something similar with their grand raffle prize. The winner chose the cash. The car was sold on BAT for a little over $100k. They made a great decision IMO.
in this case I�m taking this 996.
Unless I'm mistaken, the ducktail was never available from the factory for the 996. Wonder where they sourced that part? It's nice, but I agree, was still expecting some taco love in the back. The original aero kit completes the car! Know what I'm taco'n about?
And, they're gonna **** off the aero police that swore you should never install the factory aero front bumper withOUT the matching aero wing. Guess rules are made to be broken.
Simple change... I would recommend they de-amber the car....
I can see why they chose the Mezger engine, but surprised that didn't put masks on the front headlights.
Yea, they didn't reuse the any of the original lighting on the car and... went with the updated de-ambered taillights. They just needed to finish the course and do the front the same.
The orange sticks out like Dolly Parton in spandex?
And the 996 is officially off to the races. If I was fortunate to win the raffle, this would never leave my garage. I�d be lying if I said I wouldn�t put a Taco on it at some point.
I love that it has the GT3 motor in it, but I kind of agree that it would�ve been something if they had designed a revamped M96 with X51 pkg that made it as reliable as the GT3. Start building them and sell it as part of the Classic catalog.
The more I drive my car the more it gets noticed, thumbs up etc. My wife just sent me this about my car at cars and coffee. A taco was parked next to me and they noticed my car more. Anyway, I ain�t putting a gt3 engine on it. I met a guy with a FSI 4.0 and improvements that�s putting almost 500 hp. That�s impressive to me. Maybe in my opinion what this coupe classic has done is getting more and more companies interested in doing stuff for our cars. An example is soul performance, they are currently developing an exhaust for our cars.
It's pretty clear Porsche followed a similar formula they already used for the 997 Sport Classic - which was never sold here. Even the name is similar as well is the color. The 997 came with a X51 power pack but IMHO they didn't want to use the M96 since the first thing most people think when they hear 996 and M96 is IMS and the whole class action lawsuit over it. I think the GT3 motor swap was a clever "look at the monkey!" move to get people even more excited about the project and show what their Classic program is capable of.
i seen rsrs that look better. Look at the diameter of the exhaust and the pipes look too small. Anyway I would love to buy the race car below and do an engine and transmission swap to my car. I�m sure Dejeeper has the skills to do this. The engine on the car is a built gt3 engine. If that was done the car would definitely be a one of one.
Thread resurrection. Does anyone know how they were able to install the Gt3 motor into the 996 chassis and retain functional rear seats? I read the Gt3 motor has an oil tank that juts into the rear seat space?
He put a Gt3 motor on his blown car. Read the whole thread �another one bites the dust�. Porsche just did
the same in their 996 classic coupe Dejeeper beat them time wise. Based on by what Dejeeper did and the cost of the total gt3 with the engine, I think you get more performance at a better value going with a FSI engine rebuild.
I would hope that he offset some of the cost by selling off the chassis and some parts he didn�t need.
He saved a ton on labor.
If he had someone to do the job instead of doing it himself, it would have been a LOT more expensive!
He also ended up with other GT3 bits, not just the engine and transaxle.
Having done it i would dissagree at every level. I am still selling parts but i will be many thousands under a fsi built with a motor designed for what i am doing from the factory. Yes there is about 150hrs of labor in the swap but for me it doesnt really count as additional cost.
For the back seat qestion the foam in the carpet section is different and compensates dor the bump. Since its the same as the turbo car u can get the carpet from a dismantler or just order the gt3 carpet from the dealer.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1251322-another-one-bites-the-dust.html
man you are a hell of a wrench. But I think we would have to see the numbers to really evaluate this. Time is a real limited resource and worst of all no one knows how much time they have left. In your case maybe there were some other things that you may have wanted to do with your time. I don�t know exactly what is the total power of your car as it sits now, and I would definitely will like to know how much you have in it, and definitely some value needs to be assigned to your time. I tell you this my $57k turbo last Saturday smoked an 07 gt3 on two runs of a bit more than a quarter mile , I was shifting at 6,000 rpms, not even redline. I even had my ac on. My brother has a 15 gt3 and my goal is going to be to make my car faster than his in a reliable way at a fraction of the cost. Headers and exhaust are going on next, the previous owner gave them to me. also FSI is not the only place that can do a good rebuilds on these engines, we can probably all agree that FSI is probably the premier or most expensive way. The price or cost of something is always debatable, this year I replaced my upstairs ac unit with a 3 ton seer one. I contacted 12 companies and negotiated with the top 3. Highest estimate $9000, I got it done for $4300 lifetime ac compressor warranty, 10 year parts and three years labor. I have offered to pay cash but in the end finished using my fidelity rewards card that puts 2 percent back into one of my iras. I dismantled the old unit as they took it out removed the aluminum flashing from the evaporator coil, cleaned up the coils, separated all the wiring, cutting away the inside copper tubing, sold all at recycling another $217 that came back my way (similar to you selling your other gt3 parts). Yesterday at cars and coffee I spoke with two shop owners about the cost of pinning the coolant lines in the turbo if they haven�t been done. Guess what both shops good one half the price of the other. I�m retired so I do whatever I want with my time. Thursday I opened a new checking account in 90 days they�ll give me $300, in sixty days I will close the account, and play the game again.
Keeping cost out of it and the debate over rebuilt M96 vs GT3 engine, I would gladly take both engines.
DeJeeper and PCA show us a GT3 swap is doable. I think what DeJeeper did as a private owner versus Porsche factory resources, and as fast as he did it provides an impressive option to those that want to go this route. We now know that there are alot of GT3 engines sitting on the shelf in Germany for purchase.
FSI, LN and other companies show us what can be done with an M96 rebuild with a long list of multiple rebuild choices.
Sure wish PCA NA would have pushed the Porsche Factory to use the M96 on this car with factory engineered enhancements to solve the issues we have all been solving. But this is what happens when you have a group of decision makers that may or may not be M96 996 owners. Easy to choose the GT3 engine. Don't fault them. In fact i love what they produced, but just a little disappointed that we didn't see what Porsche would have enhanced with the M96 engine.
After driving GT3ish - That motor feels different than an M96 and it does so from the turn of the key. It reminded me of how it felt to blip the throttle on a Ferrari V8, the character set it apart from from the M96 and does so by a mile.
If Porsche wanted to set out to build the best factory example of a road going 996, there was no other motor to choose in my opinion.
Man u can really get off topic
. if i a gave a $hit about going fast in a straight line i would by a c7, demon or gt50. I guarentee Brad (hbdun) in his c2 and a handful of miata cars can beat your times by 10 sec in your turbo car on a road course.
If u want to put a value on it. Make it the average indy rate around here $100 at 150hrs so $15k. That is soup to nuts including the entire suspension, wiring, abs install. I also kept a about $2k worth of gt3 interior parts and $5k of suspension parts. I didnt just swap a motor....i made a gt3ish.
If u r paying someone to r&r&r (remove, rebuild' reinstall) the fsi or other higher end motor rebuilder u r looking at $30-35k
My car purchase price $5500 shipped as a roller, net should be $20k on my entire swap, $15k labor. A n/a mezger, priceless. So under $40k all in at this point for me for a true 95% copy of a $110k gt3.
U can keep all the intake air leaks, low rpm, extra weight, peaky throttle, and added expence of a turbo. Nothing sings like 8k out the tailpipe. Although a really do enjoy the fat a$$ of a tt.
Its just so hard to explain how different a gt3 car is because there were only 1100 shipped to north america and so few have driven them. I really think the 3.4/3.6 platform is good and worth owning. Its just that the mezger is the motor porsche should have put in al their c2/c4 cars. There one off Club car shows they know they made a mistake
.
I never driven an early gt3 car., only a 15 my brothers. And yes close to redline they sign. There were 8 gt3 cars last Saturday at cars and coffee and all of them sounded amazing. I don�t track my cars because I already did that with my HPA twin turbo r32 many years ago. Yes a lot of people that constantly track their cars with lesser cars would beat me in a track, that takes skills and practice practice practice. I do like going fast in a straight line with my two p cars. Hell I was going 110 mph when this happened on my F150 yesterday, I was able to save it. No offense Dejeeper. Everyone happy 4th of July, happy 246 birthday America , our founding fathers would have never guess we would have such a forum as this.
30,000 mile michellin LTx 275/50/20
In the ferry going over the water.
Cool thing about this vacation is the whole family is here including soon to be 19 year old chihuahua rat terrier.
Dinner at Fins last night. Nice view.
yes it has TPMS, yes they were working. Saturday I fill her up with fuel and got my tires properly inflated. As a mater of fact now every time I get in it it shows the display warning in the dash showing 0 air pressure on the passenger side rear tire. Road was real good other that asphalt being extremely hot. I get them rotated every oil change and in between changes I take it to discount tire to rotate them again. On my last rotation 4,000 miles ago thread depth was 8/32 all around. In my opinion this was a fluke. These tires properly maintained can last 80,000 miles. Anyway nobody got hurt, we had a cooler full of refreshments and Ford roadside assistance only took 40 minutes to come in , in the middle of nowhere in a Texas country road on the third of July, I was pretty impressed by that.
Saw the car in person at PCA headquarters, really cool, the car will ultimately be auctioned (not raffled) to a PCA member after going on tour. The ducktail is the OEM 997 part, which they had to shave down a bit to fit and also had to custom fab the piece between the ducktail and rear windshield. Amber side markers were a specific decision to match with the amber bulbs in the front lights, but they did then choose to go with the updated litronics/brake lights with no amber. They just put up a video discussing a lot of the choices made during the process, as well as getting it up on a lift.
You Tube
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