Trying to decide between Bilstein PSS10 and Ohlins Road & Track

I know there are some threads about both - I’ve searched, read, and asked follow up questions. I still feel I have little clue how Ohline Road & Tracks feel on the road on a 996, so I thought just maybe it would help to start a thread specifically focused on how they compare to the Bilsteins. (Particularly as I need to make my decision in a few days.) I need something that won’t crash or thump any more or worse than the normal stock suspension, especially in the city; that is basically no worse than stock in secondary ride (over small imperfections) and that will smoothly float over imperfect, often undulating country roads, especially when going quickly. Bilsteins seem a pretty safe bet. And Ohlins? Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Installed ohlins on my 02 C4S Have them on about a week now Lowered about 1" lower than stock Ride is a firmer but still compliant and relatively comfortable on my horrendous roads I have the shocks set at middle stiffness I use the car as a daily driver I really like the feel of the shocks you can really feel the dual valve technology

I have the the ohlins. I really like them, but I am more track oriented. By your post it looks like your looking more into comfort on the street, with that fact the Ohlins spring rates are 100 or more lbs/in stiffer than the PSS10. The rates of the PSS 10 are about 10-20% higher than the M030. You would probably be happier with the PSS10.

Ohlins are like magic shocks. They ride great on the road and make rumbley road surfaces smooth as a table top.

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In what way do you notice the firmer ride? Do you feel sharper impacts through the car with big bumps and dips? Or small ones? Or is it (also) in a positive way: less roll? Or do bumps/dips raise/lower the car more before the car regains composure (quickly, since they are undoubtedly quality dampers)? Or? And would it be correct to understand rhat "relatively comfortale" mean OK, but less comfortable than stock?

P.S. Wow, I spend a lot of time wondering which way to go with this, and found little input online - and then I start a thread and instantly get lots of helpful replies :-) Thanks everyone!!!

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P.P.S. I don't suppose you have any idea how it compares to your stock C4S suspension at a low stiffness setting? Thanks again!

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I had it initially set a bit softer but I found it could use more stiffness especially in the rear Just a feeling Min all honesty I have had the PSS on a Bmw and these ohlins are a step up They ride beautifully but the stiffer springs provide awesome handling

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Firmer ride in the way it deals with road cracks and breaks especially at slow speed At faster speeds they really smooth out Over bumps it absorbs the undulations very controlled and quickly Definitely less roll but I also installed gt3 seat bars I also have RSS dog bones which really sharpens up the feedback Comfort level I would say is sportier than stock but still good for daily driving that I do It's hard to describe its all up to the individual I prefer sportier handling with lots of feedback I hate squishy rides and under steer These shocks are almost dual personality They ride out and absorb bumps very nicely but also sharpen up the suspension

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Thanks for the helpful, detailed description! Firmer over road cracks and breaks at slow speed is not what I'm looking for. I live in a city, and while I didn't buy the 996 to drive it here, I have to drive it here to get anywhere. On the other hand, the stock 996 isn't too bad over such things. But that's mine, with the standard suspension and 17" wheels. I wasn't thrilled by the C4S when I tried it on local roads. (Though on smooth roads I certainly was - back-to-back the 997.1 C4S was a clear step down.) Still, great though the Ohlins surely are, the Bilsteins sound like the better bet for me. (Please tell me the PSS suspension you had on your BMW was no worse over road cracks and breaks than the stock BMW suspension! My old stock BMW suspension was horrible.) P.S. You probably meant GT3 sway bars, no? I assume you installed them and the dog bones before installing the Ohlins, so "firmer" is purely a result of the Ohlins?

Yes gt3 sway bars Sorry for the spelling and grammar issues Typing on an iPhone isn't ideal I had the RSS links on the car prior to the coilovers I was starting to get a bit of clunking and general looseness in the suspension The car is at 100000km so suspension was getting a bit tired and decided to upgrade it I actually found the stock suspension banging and crashing a bit which was not overly comfortable The new ohlins rides the rough streets in a much different manner I would say the compression is stiffer hence a bit firmer ride than stock but the shocks isolate the street better and you get a much more controlled feel over the bumps through the steering The rebound is where the magic happens and you can feel the difference Really absorbs and isolates the undulations and rough surfaces giving a very controlled feel At higher speeds the car rides bumps out very smoothly and progressively If you want comfort I would say the ohlins are more sport oriented but with comfort built in As I said comfort is subjective and in the eye of the beholder I for one am very happy with the results

Thanks! Again, very helpful. I'm thinking the ultimate solution for someone in my situation might be Ohlins with the same spring stiffness as the Bilsteins (if they would be compatible). Possibly even with progressive springs. (Anyone know whether the Bilsteins have seperate stiff and soft springs, or a single spring that is stiffer at one end - and if this makes any difference?) Though I'm also thinking I would spend a lot of time and money and never get it right ...

And isn't there another advantage to softer springs (or to not going much harder than stock)? Aren't they better in the rain, when you want some weight transfer to the outside wheels, or to the front when braking, without cornering or braking hard (or before you are able to do so)?

WRS 10 why are you looking into coilovers if ride comfort is an issue? What are your goals for your suspension? Improved handling? Track? Ride confort? Lowered height? You need to be realistic on how do you use your car and how much compromises are you willing to give up to achieve that goal. Maybe all you need is new shocks and sport springs.

Good questions. Not entirely easy to answer. Let�s see how well I can do: Top priority for me is how the car works on the road. But it needs to work on track too - and I'd be disappointed if I invest in my suspension and it doesn't work better on track. On the road (and generally on track), I'd like a more tied down front end, more direct steering, better turn in, and a more nimble, throttle steerable car. (I understand there are other things which can help. I will try geometry, and I might try a lower rear to front tire width ratio.) I'd like to be able to adjust the ride hight both for use on track, and because in the future I hope to invest in removing some weight, and I know you don't have to remove too much before ride height gets all messed up on some/all(?) cars - generally more on one axle than the other. Then there�s comfort. To have fun where I usually drive, the car has to deal with bad roads. Comfort/ride quality is a tricky issue; maybe it�s helpful to describe what are the biggest challenges for my car (which is pretty good overall � as it should be with standard suspension and 17� wheels) and for many other cars which I've tried here. First, in city and suburban roads where I drive calmly, or semi-briskly at 25-55 mph, my car could be better. Uneven surfaces tilt the car left and right, and forwards and backwards, probably end up moving my seat up & down a bit, and probably bounce the car around a bit too. Much better than my old M3, but there are still roads where I think I sure hope coilovers will do better. And I absolutely do not want a suspension upgrade that would make this worse. No idea how Ohlins and PSS10s would compare in this. (Perhaps the looseness of my standard suspension with 17s makes this worse. But I've also tried M030 (ROW) and a C4S, and they seemed worse overall - maybe not in tilting (wasn't clear or don't remember), but definitely on jolts and shocks from bumps and dips.) Second, what I fear most with coilovers are these jolts and shocks (and thuds, and thunks, etc.). My car may be good enough about this, but I�ve seen that it�s a big problem with many cars. Mainly at low speeds (25-55 mph), but the crappy (but expensive and reputable) coilovers I put on the M3 managed this at 100 too (and did so much more often at lower speeds). Those coilovers had similar front spring stiffness to the Ohlins. Based on this and posts above, this worries me about the Ohlins more than anything else. Third, I also feer a knobbly ride over small imperfections. Not harsh shocks, but a rattly interior and fidgety feeling. I had this with the BMW, who�s suspension could do no right, but also with a much softer car until I changed from P Zeros to F1 Asymmtric 2s. Finally, on local roads where I like to drive briskly, a BMW M3, for instance, will pogo all over the road and you have to choose between slowing down or bouncing into the bushes. My car doesn�t do that, I�m 99% pretty sure Ohlins won�t, and 95% sure Bilsteins won�t. (So someone please tell me if they will!)

Good questions. Not entirely easy to answer. Let’s see how well I can do: Top priority for me is how the car works on the road. But it needs to work on track too - and I'd be disappointed if I invest in my suspension and it doesn't work better on track. On the road (and generally on track), I'd like a more tied down front end, more direct steering, better turn in, and a more nimble, throttle steerable car. (I understand there are other things which can help. I will try geometry, and I might try a lower rear to front tire width ratio.) I'd like to be able to adjust the ride hight both for use on track, and because in the future I hope to invest in removing some weight, and I know you don't have to remove too much before ride height gets all messed up on some/all(?) cars - generally more on one axle than the other. Then there’s comfort. To have fun where I usually drive, the car has to deal with bad roads. Comfort/ride quality is a tricky issue; maybe it’s helpful to describe what are the biggest challenges for my car (which is pretty good overall – as it should be with standard suspension and 17” wheels) and for many other cars which I've tried here. First, in city and suburban roads where I drive calmly, or semi-briskly at 25-55 mph, my car could be better. Uneven surfaces tilt the car left and right, and forwards and backwards, probably end up moving my seat up & down a bit, and probably bounce the car around a bit too. Much better than my old M3, but there are still roads where I think I sure hope coilovers will do better. And I absolutely do not want a suspension upgrade that would make this worse. No idea how Ohlins and PSS10s would compare in this. (Perhaps the looseness of my standard suspension with 17s makes this worse. But I've also tried M030 (ROW) and a C4S, and they seemed worse overall - maybe not in tilting (wasn't clear or don't remember), but definitely on jolts and shocks from bumps and dips.) Second, what I fear most with coilovers are these jolts and shocks (and thuds, and thunks, etc.). My car may be good enough about this, but I’ve seen that it’s a big problem with many cars. Mainly at low speeds (25-55 mph), but the crappy (but expensive and reputable) coilovers I put on the M3 managed this at 100 too (and did so much more often at lower speeds). Those coilovers had similar front spring stiffness to the Ohlins. Based on this and posts above, this worries me about the Ohlins more than anything else. Third, I also fear a knobbly ride over small imperfections. Not harsh shocks, but a rattly interior and fidgety feeling. I had this with the BMW, who’s suspension could do no right, but also with a softer car until I changed from P Zeros to F1 Asymmtric 2s. Finally, on local roads where I like to drive briskly at 60-85 mph, a BMW M3, for instance, will pogo all over the road and you have to choose between slowing down or bouncing into the bushes. My car doesn’t do that, I’m 99% pretty sure Ohlins won’t, and 95% sure Bilsteins won’t. (So someone please tell me if they will!)

The Ohlins shock are amazing. Many people think my car rides similar to PSS cars. IMHO I think the stiffer springs in the Ohlins are not for you. I had M030 and felt more comfortable than the Ohlins. There definately was more small bump harshness due to the stiffer springs. I would say the PSS cars I rode in would be closer to the M030 than the Ohlins. Suspension are a system you just can't mix and match shocks and springs. The Ohlins shocks were designed to work with stiff springs thus putting too weak springs would work against it also. I honestly think you need to consider PSS as they would seem best for you. Other alternatives are the KW v2 or v3 they have similar spring rates to the PSS with the v3 having comprssion and rebound setting on the shock which may improve your comfort. You should also consider tuning the car with adjustable sway bars to give you the over/under steer you desire. Another idea is the H&R coilover, they don't have adjustable shocks and their spring rate are similar to lowering springs. You would have to go and read or ride some of the KW stuff to compare it to the PSS. I do feel your best bet is the keep with adjustable shocks set to soft for the street and keep the spring rate a little less.

Jetskied, thanks, that's very helpful. And it's a good point about not being able to use soft springs with shocks designed for stiff ones. I actually called Ohlins, and they suggested not going below 50n in the front (down from 60), and 110 in the rear (down from 120). So I went for PSS10s ...

First impressions of Bilstein PSS10, set on stiffness 4 (where 10 is stiffest): Not good. A few miles made clear they are way too stiff for me. The problem is the big bumps, including speed bumps, but lots of other bumps too. They send a shock through the car, and make some noise too. So I switched to the sofftest setting, but I didn't expect much difference. I had different coilovers on another car which supposedly had a real difference between each click, and they had 24 clicks - but I didn't find a huge difference between 0 and 24. And I'd heard that although Bilsteins have 10 clicks, some of them change nothing. So I figured it will still be way to stiff. WRONG! The compression impact from even big bumps was now quite acceptable, if a little bit noisy. A huge difference. The rebound, however, was a disaster. The car was bouncing and wobbling all over the place, to the extent that I felt it was not safe to drive. To the extent, in fact, that it drove like I'd imagine a car with just springs and no dampers would drive. I don't think Bilstein should sell this kit with this setting for our cars. I guess TUV didn't test them with this setting. The question is now whether settings 2 or 3 will work for me. My car's in the shop waiting for parts for a while though. And if 2 is also a disaster to the point I'd find it unsafe, I rather not find out the hard way. Anyone know? (I'm holding off on buying new summer tires till I know what suspension I'm using (maybe going back to stock?) and whether I want tires that are more comfortable, or more precise and nimble. So if someone can confirm that 2 is the same as 1, and 3 is the same as 4, it would be quite helpful to know.)

Aren't PSS 10 double adjustable? If compression is good on soft setting then bump up rebound a couple clicks at a time till the car calms down for you. Also I question your alignment if the car is scary, darty or even just un-easy feeling.

With all due respect, if I'm not mistaken this thread is all about unrealistic expectations. It seems like you (rs10) are shooting for some ideal that doesn't exist (in your mind anyway). There are clearly "best" setups for track and street. Anything that's used for both is going to be a compromise that you're just going to have to find and live with. There are clearly many folks who are using the setups that you deem unusable to verging on dangerous, without complaint... I think the solution in your case is to setup a track car for the track and a street car for the street. Or, better yet, design and manufacture a suspension that can do both equally well...you could probably make a few bucks on it.

100% agree, for racing I have Sprint racing go karts. for driving around town I have street cars. I have several friends that are attempting to do what the OP and RS10 are doing. I want both in one car and Dporto said it is a compromise. Track for HPDE or Time trial car get a GT3, race car well buy a race car Cup cars are race cars.

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If Bilsteins really are the best for me (and if settings 2 and 3 aren't significantly better), then my expectations apparently are unrealistic. But it's not about trying to get a setup that's both much more comfortable and much better on track. For me, it's about trying to get a very good street setup that changes the handling bias a bit by changing the relative front and rear stiffness, and allows me to adjust the height of the car to compensate for weight reduction. In addition, given that coilovers enable me to reduce the height and to stiffen the suspension more than I would for the street, I'd also hope that when I switch to a lower and stiffer setting, they would also performs at least as well as the stock suspension on track. But that's secondary. How the work on the street is the most important thing. If neither the Bilsteins nor the Ohlins can do that, it is because they too are too track biased, as the much higher spring rates suggest. (Or to be precise in the case of the Bilsteins, that the softer portion of the progressive spring is out of the picture for large bumps and the stiffer portion is too stiff.) They clearly could have built coilovers that are very similar to the stock suspension in one setting, and in a lower, stiffer setting perform a bit better on track. But unfortunately, if settings 2 and 3 won't work, then even Bilstein have built a coilover with shocks that are only compatible with their springs in settings that are much stiffer than the stock suspension.

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Actually, no, like the Ohlins, they are single adjustable. It's not the alignment. The car was just aligned with to M030 specs, and the symtoms have nothing to do with alignment changes - which I'm familiar with from, among other things, experimening with different alignments on this car. More on the symptoms below ...

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I'm afraid I doubt that very much. Using PSS10s, yes. Using them on setting 1, no. Not for long. I tried this for maybe 5 miles. It was quickly clear it didn't work, but I foolishly chose not to pull over immediately and change it. Then toward the end of the 5 miles, on a road I've driven a fair number of times in my 996, and very many times in other cars, as the car continued to bounce up and down wildly over surface irregularities, "BANG", it bottomed out. It literally smashed into the road below. And no, I wasn't using minimum height. It was set roughly at maximum (with slight deviations below maximum for corner balancing). I thought thank God I installed the Porsche steel protection plate that comes with the X74 suspension, so my engine should be OK, but I hope I didn't bang up the exhaust (or destroy the plate). Then I parked, got out, turned around, and there was oil literally pouring onto the floor. I didn't post this yesterday as it was hard to see exactly what broke and I was waiting for my local specialist's diagnosis. The diagnosis is simply that the bottom of the oil reservoir had cracked open as a result of slamming into the road below. Fortunately the engine seems to be fine, which I suspected as I'd checked the oil pressure guage a few times while driving after the big bang, as there was no oil on the ground where I stopped to open the garage door (with the engine still running), and based on the sheer quantity of oil which poured out when I shut the engine off, which meant there was still a lot there before I shut it off. (For some miraculous reason which I don't understand, while the engine was running, there was little/no leak. Perhaps there is a bit of vacuum pressure from the oil pumps - not enough to defy gravity with several liters of oil, but perhaps enough to keep the cracked oil pan from opening as wide as it did when the engine stopped. Or rather to keep the drain plug from dropping a bit, for the crack may have reached the drain plug opening. (I'll know more about the exact damage next week.)) Nonetheless, sorry, but a suspension setting which can cause a car to bottom out so badly that it cracks the oil pan, even when it was far from minimum height, is unsafe and should not be sold. Had I driven further and encountered more bumps, it might have destroyed the engine. When the car is up and running, I will cautiously try setting 3. If that doesn't do it, I will consider trying setting 2 - though I'd be grateful to hear if others have found it does/does not work.

Did you remove the bumpstops or update them when you installed the Bilsteins by chance? Bottoming out suspension on coilovers that are raised to the max seems somewhat rare, especially if you have good bumpstops installed and have good dampening setting. However it can happen to any car on any suspension combo if the bump is especially bad. You see it quite often even on race cars on some tracks that run 1000+lb/in springs.

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I don't think so, and I hope not, but I'll check. The big up and down motions my car was making before the impact seem a pretty strong clue that too little damping was the problem. But again, I'll check.

"Then I parked, got out, turned around, and there was oil literally pouring onto the floor." Wow...that's a bummer - sorry to hear it. "I'm afraid I doubt that very much. Using PSS10s, yes. Using them on setting 1, no. Not for long." Yeah...I certainly wasn't talking about the most extreme settings, as I wouldn't think those settings would be particularly useable at either end...

Any pics of the damage? I somehow missed the cracked oil pan bit.

Not yet, but I'll see if I can get some.

Exactly what do you think these settings of shocks do? Stiffening the rebound essentially holds the car down longer. That is all that happens then you turn the **** on the shock. What spring rates. are your running front and rear. and what is the ground clearance at the lift donuts front ad rear? I still think you are expecting something from the shocks that they will not do. Start off with mid sweep of the shock adjuster. drive it and see what you think. Only thing that fiddling with the adjuster any further is to balance of lateral grip. PERIOD.

I was going to go with Ohlins too until I found a deal on a set of ROW M030 struts. Decided to give them a shot as they have better valving and are set for the 0.5-1" drop than the stock C4S touring struts. Threw them on with H&R Springs (340F/800R) as a low cost test to see how they'd work out. Then I drove from Seattle to San Francisco and back. 1800 miles down on I5 and H101. Then I went to a PCA Track day. Result: I was able to get all 4 M030 struts for $300. The springs were $350. For about 1/5th the price of the Ohlins, I got just about the exact stiffness I wanted for daily driving and track. The car handled SF's terrible roads fine, a couple thousand highway miles perfectly, and kept the car planted on the track. I have no doubt that the Ohlins would absorb/dampen more and it would be nice to be able to adjust rigidity for the track but I seriously couldn't be happier with this setup for the price. The funds I saved here will now be in the car for an IMS and more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyrwyPoPFek

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Standard PSS10 spring rates with standard PSS10 springs. There's a thread on that somewhere, but basically the initial compression is softer than stock, but once it's used up, its a lot stiffer than M030. Ground clearence was about 15+ mm below stock (ROW). This is the maximum ground clearance with the PSS10s. (The rears can technically be set at -10mm, but then the car is tilting forward more than it is designed to be, and I've never heard that this is a good idea.) I think the settings go from hard to soft (like they say on the adjuster), so I would expect more grip and less quick sideways roll in quick direction changes with the hardest setting that works for a given road surface, and more comfort with the softest setting. Not correct? To what extent the change between settings is in compression and to what extent it's in rebound with the PSS10s, I don't remember, if I ever even knew for sure. But based on my limited experience with two settings, going from 4 (slightly closer to the softest than the hardest) and 1 (the softest) it seems clear the compression became softer (or perhaps its more accurate to say less stiff), but the control over subsequent up down motion (which I associate with rebound) became much too weak. I gather from my experience and from posts here, that it was a mistake to use an extreme setting and that I should deviate from the middle settings with care. Shame the (rather limited) instructions didn't say so. Indeed, the shocks for one axle come set at 1, implying it's fine. (Probably the front, though I forgot. Perhaps it is fine - just for that axle.)

I don't think the coil over springs on the PSS10 are anywhere near stock (quite a bit higher rate). You didn't answer the question of ride height what exactly was it. ROW M030 is low. and if you are going 15mm lower then I suspect your car is pretty darn low. Did you set the car level and then corner balance? isn't that the reason for coil overs? Shock rebound is normally 3 times the value per click versus Compression. Stiffer shock valving does not equal more grip at the tire. Quite the opposite actually. But the main goal of adjustable shock valving is to balance grip front to rear helping the car rotate through a corner. ***** on shocks can be the devil to most people as it will just get you chasing around the blinging *****. set them and forget them is best.

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Yes, as per my post above, once past the soft portion, the springs are significantly stiffer. There are differnent ways to express ride height. The height is set ~15mm below ROW stock, not below ROW M030. In other words, it is about 5mm below ROW M030, and 15mm above X74. In other words, not very low at all. Yes, set level and corner balanced. That, as mentioned above, is why the exact change in height differs from corner to corner. Makes sense that the stiffer shock does not provide more grip, unlike stiffer springs which provide more grip by minimizing weight transfer to the more heavily loaded corner(s). On the other hand, as you describe it, it sounds like it makes no sense to soften shocks to obtain more comfort, or to stiffen them front and rear to improve handling (by preventing the car from quickly tilting in direction changes). Even if the differences are small, this surely can't be 100% true, no, with all the cars with adjustable, but not adaptive suspensions with settings labeled things like comfort, normal, and sport? Or is the point that the comfort is the same in all settings with PSS10s? Based on my limited experience, it seems that at least the compression comfort is affected by changing the settings.

Some of my posts merit an update. I've said some negative things about setting 1 on the Bilsteins, and the lack of body control really is bad, but I just learned there is more to the story. As mentioned, when my car was bouncing up and down, it hit the road surface below resulting in a huge oil leak. However, the oil pan itself did not drop all the way down to the road surface. Nor did the X74 steel tray below the oil pan. There was another part of the car protruding below the oil pan which did - an IMS guardian. And now that my car has been repaired and I've seen the broken parts, it seems pretty clear that only the IMSG (or rather the oil lug part of the IMSG) hit the road. This destroyed the IMSG plug, It also smashed the IMSG plug up against the oilpan, cracking it. I've been driving with the IMS Guardian for probably 4000 miles. I've surely driven the same road with it, probably a few times. And I'm convinced this would not have happened if I had the Bilsteins on setting 3 or 4, instead of setting 1. On the other hand, I also don't think it would have happened, even with setting 1, if I didn't have the IMS Guardian. And I can imagine that even with a good suspension setting, the risk would be there if I lowered the car down to X74 suspension height. When had the Guardian installed, I saw how it protruded from the oil pan and I wondered if it wasn't an accident waiting to happen. But then I thought there must be a thousand of these things out there and no one has ever had any problems ... . Anyway, it must surely be possible to make an IMSG plug that protrudes less far below the oil pan. And I think it would be a major improvement. Alternately, they could sell a steel tray similar to the X74 tray, but designed to provide more protection to the IMSG plug.

And now back to our original topic - more or less. I've now tried most/all of the settings from 1 to 4. (It's a bit hard to be sure, as on the fronts, it seems that if you turn the **** all the way to soft, you actually go it bit further than the first setting. Either that, or the fronts have 11 settings, not the 10 I understood the Bilsteins to have both front & rear.) There are clearly at least 3 stiffness levels here, probably 4, despite rumors that the PSS10s actually only have 2-3 stiffness levels, despite having 10 clicks. Assuming that if I go higher than 4, the next 6 clicks bring at least one additional setting, then these rumors simply are not true for my suspension. Settings 2 and 3 are much better. Not a clear mismatch for the springs and the car, like setting 1. On many roads I wonder if comfort and composure are significantly different than the stock suspension. Turn in and understeer seem a bit better. The car seems to stay flatter. It seems to have more grip, at least on good roads. But it's not the right choice for me where I drive. Too often I cannot have fun becuase the road is too bumpy. I'm not sure whether it's the initial impacts that bother me, or the rebound, but when I try to drive fast and the road is bad, something is not working as well as the stock suspension. My hunch is that even if the dampers are great, even if they were perfect, the spring rates are the limiting factor. I discovered that the softer portion of the progressive springs (the helper springs) are actually fully compressed when the car is sitting, meaning that in most cases, when you hit a bump, that softer initial spring rate never enters into the picture. If any coilovers would work for me, they would have much softer springs, perhaps like Porsche's M030 suspension. Alas, to my knowledge, no one makes such coilovers :-(

One last thought (or question) for today. Jetskied (and others with Ohlins), I'm curious. Have you also found that, as with my Bilsteins, the softest damper settings are a clear mismatch for the springs. Or are these magic dampers, as someone described them, able to magically match one set of springs with a wide range of damping rates?

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I Set them in the mid setting as per the instructions Then added a few more clicks to stiffen in the front and a few more in the back Find it rides just fine on our despot roads Just rode in an rs4, felt very similar To my ohlins at current settings

vandersmith, Thanks for the detailed review. I was once interested in the Ohlins setup when the Canadian dollar was at par and I had a lead here that would sell them at a discounted price. I hesitated, then the dollar dropped. My lead no longer could sell them for the same price and the folks in LA/OC weren't going to budge. I was SOL. Koni had a sale on their struts but figured, why change my suspension with only 60,000km / 37,xxx miles on the clock? Your review validates my hesitation, so thank you for that! Mike

Jae Lee at mirage (well know in the suspension circles in san diego) doesn't recommend ohlins any longer as he had one break on a customers cars and the warranty is about worthless.

Jae is working on my C4S as we speak. New PSS10 setup among other things. I'll report my first impressions later once I get the car next week. thanks.

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Wow. That's unfortunate. I am surprised at the warranty with Ohlins. They've been amazing within the motorcycle community so there has got to be more to the story. Could it be an issue with the North American distributor? My personal experience has been less than ideal with them, however, their products have been stellar and I only speak from motorcycle experience.

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I have the Ohlins and think they're great. I drive it on the street at 17 clicks from full stiff, never tried going any lower. Track/AX 2 - 4 clicks. I believe there are a total of 34 clicks. I read somewhere that you can go with a 30% stiffer spring rate before you need to revalve the shocks, might apply to going 30% softer too. Here is their recommended setup 0 - 7 track 5 - 10 Winding Road 10 - 20 Street

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I'm not. Most all consumer based automotive products only pertain to street driving. Once you take it to the tracks, all warranty is void. I bet this is what happened here. Not to defend manufacturers but it is so easy to break things at the tracks. All it takes is one off excursion and something can easily break or snap, especially suspension components. I'm not gonna let one incident which we don't know the full story on sway my perception of Ohlins which I've used a couple times in the past with no issue and still think it's a great company.

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Thanks for your post. Did you also find, like Jetskied, that the ride quality is a bit harsher than the stock suspension (whether regular or M030)? Also, assuming you are satisfied with the ride quality on the street, can you let us know what part of the world you live in? By the way, about going 30% softer, I spoke with Ohlins in Sweden, and they recommended not dropping the front springs below 50 (from 60), and the rears below 110 (from 120).

Quotes source post: 12291633

Yes, ride quality is a bit harsher that stock springs, they're quite a bit higher spring rate, so low speeds (under 30 mph) is where it's the worst. I don't like stiff suspensions, had that on my E46 M3 and I debated a couple months before I pulled the trigger and bought the Ohlins for this car. At higher speeds, it really isn't too bad but definitely not as soft as the regular OEM susp. But, I was after a better track car and this isn't my DD, only my weekend car running errands or doing DE/AX. Thanks for input on Ohlins suggestion, it's always best to hear from the source and you have to take anything you read on the Internet with a grain of salt. I live in North California (Sacramento area). The roads around me aren't too bad, some very bad (Napa area), but I haven't driven in those areas. My street (kinda rural) where I live is pretty bad (25 mph), but I'm only 3 houses in, so I can handle it.

I just read this thread from start to finish and if I had to decide between Ohlins or PSS 10 right now for my C2, I would be totally confused as to what to buy. Can it be that complex? It seems to me the proper method is to start at mid-shock setting and go up or down to your liking, after many days or miles of trying on different roads ... not after a 5-mi road trip. Good luck finding the nirvana settings.

I've always had great experiences with Ohlins and AST. I think they work really well over a variety of surfaces and marked improvement on the track. Even Bilstein yellow shocks and good springs work well, but won't be at the same level of damping.