My high-mileage, lack-of-history gamble

Hello 996 Rennlisters! I recently purchased my first Porsche, an Arctic Silver 1999 911 C2 with a 6-speed manual. Probably would not have been able to make this dream purchase without a few variables: high-mileage (182k), no long term history to speak of, a little rough around the edges, and buying from a college student who is about to graduate. Talk about a gamble! Oh well, I couldn't turn it down after we got into negotiations! The CarFax gave me a pinch of confidence with only three owners, one of which had it for over 18 years up to 179k miles. With that in mind, I made the fairly large assumption that the car had been very well taken care of and had potentially already gone through some large ticket maintenance items. Hopefully that's case, but either way I will be working to get things to at least a good known maintenance base to work from. I'm a DIYer and have already taken care of a few items, and I have a WIP list of what I want to do next. As holidays and birthdays role around, I'll be looking to make upgrades to the suspension, wheels/tires, intake/exhaust, etc. Nothing too wild and definitely want to do things properly. Good news is my wife is fully on board. She was definitely hesitant about the Porsche due to potential costs and all (as was I, took about a month and a half to pull the trigger). But after a few rides and a couple drives of her own, she gets it! I'm looking forward to learning all I can about this great machine. It's so much fun to drive, and I love opening the door to the garage and seeing it. Still surreal.

Welcome and she looks pretty clean for the mileage.

Welcome. I'm the type to gamble on cars like yours as well. I think cars like yours are overall a pretty safe bet if you can do your own wrenching. If you are having a shop chase down the inevitable old car issues, it's going to cost you a lot of money quickly.

Welcome to the madness! Car looks really nice, someone loved it, best of luck.

Hey another Texan! Welcome to the madness. The car looks pretty good for its mileage I have to say. Careful though, before you'll know it you'll start thinking crazy thoughts like.... $30K isn't THAT much for engine rebuild. :-D

If I didn't do my own wrenching, there's no way I would've bought this. One, for the cost of getting anything done. And two, I can only think of one shop where I'm at that would even touch a Porsche. Funny enough, I found a lower mile engine on ebay going for like $10k and was already thinking about going ahead and grabbing that. I told my wife about it, and she even had a moment of thinking "might be worth it", lol! So you might be able to gather how much we are liking the Porsche.

Congratulations on the purchase! That motor would not be a bad purchase, assuming it isn't garbage. 996 motors are, well, sorta, expendable. Having a spare is prudent.

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Stretching to buy a car with a nonzero chance of being out the entire purchase price on a new engine is probably a bad idea, but to OP's credit, at least he bought the most reliable wet sump M96. Beautiful car and I hope it gives you more enjoyment than bills to pay

Welcome aboard. I’m starting to believe we only buy 20 year old 996s because: -The kids are doing okay, and are finally out of our pockets -The career went okay, maybe on the last few laps. Ya done good if you’re buying a 996 as that go-kart you always wanted. -Mortgage is gone, or nearly so -The portfolio has performed admirably over the last few years -Trump is gone, the wife is way less distraught and angry -Your baseball team has a good shot at the expanded playoffs In essence, life is TOO good, and we actually MISS worrying ourselves to death. Like, we NEED the 996 for a well balanced state of mind. So. Wipe that poop eating grin off your face after that spirited drive and delve into these forums to read all about IMS, RMS, UAOS, Water pumps, coolant tanks, blowing foam, ticking lifters, bore scoring, 2nd gear grinding, cranky steering columns, wobbly ignition switches, senile sun roof buttons, angry window regulators, non-existent replacement parts… And I wouldn’t trade mine for anything, neither will you.

This looks like a good buy to me. I have talked to Gerber a lot [local 996 shop in Seatlle] and they are positive on 996's with high mileage

Good thing you pulled the trigger on this one. I was kinda in the same situation about a month and a half ago when I bought my 2001 C4 : 170 000 km, no history record, PO had the car for barely a year, and it was a bit rough around the edges as well, just like yours. I can tell I'm delighted with the car now. I've had three 911 so far, and it's my favorite. Enjoy your gem and stick to it, 996 are soon to become unaffordable.

Congrats Cosworth. Welcome to the 996 club! The 996 is an incredible car and a long-term keeper. Now listen-up... Before you spend a penny on upgrades, you need to do 3 things to make sure the inside of your engine is in good shape. 1. Test your oil to see what's floating around. This will tell you if you have some problems. Make sure you do it with at least 1,000 miles on the oil. 2. Drop your sump to see what's in there. 3. Get your bores scoped to see their condition. Don't believe the BS that circulates which says that the 996.1 doesn't get bore scoring and is the most dependable M96 engine. It's a 20+ year old engine, and every engine has its quirks and potential problems that you have to prevent and solve for. Good news is their are more aftermarket solutions for the M96 engine that address everything in relation to all the other models. Once you know you have a good engine, then your next step is to address engine longevity before you put on any shiny pretty things on the car. We all can certainly give you a list of things too do. I say all of this as a 20 year 996 owner who loves the 996, and does not ever plan on getting rid of mine. But I have watched too many folks fail to take care of the engine first. Because you have no history on the car, you gotta be smart.

Welcome to the madness! You are now on the slippery slope! All of the comments above are correct. The most important is to get the engine into a known state. Inspect inspect inspect. In my case, I did this but still assumed it would need a new engine in X years and made sure I had the budget up front. Then when it happened 2 years later, I was ready. lots of really good info and people here that can answer any questions. But you know that just by being here. Post what you do to you car in some thread or start one for your car(ETA, duh, this is your thread...), adds to the collective, this is a cool place. and just try to keep that grin off your face when you are driving! You can’t!!

Congrats and welcome to the club!

Congrats. All the smiles after driving it can become a wallet hazard, modifications, before you know it you want another One. After 15 months and 9000 driven miles I bought a turbo. Can you tell us what month yours was manufactured it�s on the driver side door sill.

Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! About the build date...I actually had to call a Porsche dealership to find out the build month, which is 8/98. While biding my time to make on offer, I was busy for weeks doing research. I read plenty about the IMS, RMS, AOS, bore scoring, second-gear pop-out (which mine has done), etc. I came across the 1999 early build thread here. Once I saw the throttle cable, I knew it was an early build. I called Porsche of Austin, they confirmed the build date for me. I asked if they could pull any previous history of the car because why not ask. They told me they could see it was previously serviced at Rusnak Porsche in Pasadena, CA. I went back and forth with a couple of folks at Rusnak to see if they would share any history, but that ended up being a no-go. Anyone happen to know if it's possible to get a new sticker for the manufacturer sticker on the door sill? And also related, the build codes sticker under the frunk lid? That sticker is still there, but it is basically faded to the point of being illegible. Things I've done so far: Replaced back-up light switch Replaced passenger side window regulator New Hengst air filter Temporary fix for the horn contacts within the steering wheel I plan on getting a new or used good condition bracket as one of the bushings is shot The next things on the list to take care of (in no particular order): Change the oil Send a sample for analysis Drop sump and inspect Maybe convert to LN spin-on filter adapter along with the magnetic drain plug and BRS .5QT Deep Sump Oil Pan This package seems like a good deal, but I have not done any reading about it outside of LN's website Remove the front bumper to clean out the radiators Remedy the foam blowing from the vents I've read the DIYs on this one and it seems straight forward enough Test fit a set of Victor Equipment wheels that came with the car as part of the purchase

If LN says it’s okay it’s okay. They don’t shill.

Cosworth, you have a number of options with a 0.5 qt deep sump; 2.0 qt deep sump; as well as you can get a UAOS to replace your AOs which you can run an extra quart of oil. Comes down to what you are going to use your 996 for. If you are going to track your car, you want as much oil as possible. In addition there is the UIDS which will solve oil starvation/oil pressure instability on the track as the final piece.

Congrats and welcome. What part of Texas are you in?

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I�ve only owned 996s for the past four years (two so far), but in that time I haven�t read anything that describes instances of bore scoring on the 996.1 Also if he finds metal or other stuff in his oil, what do you recommend he do next? I want to have my mechanic check my old oil when he changes it later this week, but then what? Mine is a MY99 with 75,000 miles. What if?

Welcome to the 996 family! I too purchased a 996 sight unseen and made it the project of the century to get it restored. I've got a pretty long list of things I've worked on, including rust repair, convertible top, electrical, ignition switch, light switch, headlamps and of course the engine. Which I completely tore down and shipped it to LN Engineering to have it re-sleeved and bored up to a 4.0. I'm documenting the whole process on my YouTube channel so be sure to check it out. I'll just chime in and say with 186K miles on the engine your IMS is probably just fine. Check for oil in the spark plug tubes, inspect your AOS, change your motor mounts, belts, plugs, coils and flush your fluids. Good luck!

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Testing your oil, dropping your sump and seeing whats in it, as well as scoping your bores provides volumes of information on what's going on inside your engine, and as a result what could be or is failing. I just went thru this exercise myself. To put it simply, some folks want to know what's going on inside of their engine so they can attempt to identify and mitigate a bad outcome and some don't. Your call. To your question of "but then what?" If every thing is good with the engine, then you can breath a sigh of relief and spend money on other parts of the car. If the testing shows that there is a problem that is fixable, then you fix it such as finding chain tensioner bits in your sump. So you may decide to replace your tensioner and parts. Same can be said for finding various types of metals in your oil which may determine problems with engine internals. Why grenade the engine if you don't have too. If the testing shows bore scoring, then you know you will eventually need a rebuild and you may have time to figure out what rebuild and with whom, and then budget properly. In the case of the OP, he doesn't have any service history of the car and doesn't know the health of the engine, hence my 3 suggestions to save him some potential headaches and money.

@wdb solid point about LN! I'm sure I'll be racking up a bill with them soon enough. @HoustonCgrBkr I'm up in the panhandle in Lubbock. Recently moved back here from living in Austin for about 13 years. Well, I say recently, feels recent, but was about 3 years ago already. @Yogibara that sounds like a heck of a build! I'll definitely check out your YouTube channel. Looking forward to it! How much power are you anticipating with the 4.0? I've dealt with my share of rust in the past, most recently with my Mercedes. I feel your pain there. @GC996 unfortunately, I'm not close to a track, but more autocross events are being organized here now. So I am hoping to participate in some of those. Really, I was thinking of going with the .5QT Deep Sump to help alleviate the engine from TX heat. It's already been a hot spring. I can only imagine what this summer will be like. I've checked out the UAOS from LN and have it on the list. I didn't get to the oil change or test fit the Victor wheels over the weekend, but that's because it needed a good cleaning. First time in years I've hand washed a car! Luckily, I had some help!

Great pics. Enjoy that free labor while you can…lol. They grow up fast. When I call mine now, they answer…no I’m not going to help you with your 996…I kid. I am down in Houston.

I can't even PAY my kids to wash my cars. Even if I could, i'd be like, "No, no, no, not like that. Like this" and do it myself. lol I'm also in Houston (Cypress).

OP - Car is good looking! Yes, you can take advantage of the kids wanting to wash the Porsche! Unfortunately, that will wash away soon as the Pcar isn’t so exotic after they clean it up a couple more times. Yup, and soon enough they’ll want to wash it again as barter while they beg for permission to drive the car.

@Cosworth82 my Dad is in Lubbock and very active in the PCA group down there. They have a good, relaxed group out there and if you haven't already I recommend you check them out. ​​​​​

Welcome to the madness Cos! Looks like you made a good bet.

Congrats on the clean "early '99" score !!! Don't let the 180K miles worry you. Mine has 186k and I have rode it hard and put it up wet for 15 years. And with a new set of Koni Sports on all 4 corners last month she is back tight ready for more !! A lot of resources here in the archive , I would suggest that after you do a thorough detailed inspection on the sump/oil/bores, get that 2nd gear pop-out fixed before you end having to buy new gears ( they get real pricey).. Enjoy the journey !!

I also bought a high mileage (170k) 99 C4 with limited history and only an hour or so of my own inspection to make the decision. Turned out to be an excellent car, and since I paid a low enough cost that doing an engine rebuild eventually won't make me regret the purchase; I feel confident driving the hell out of it. Enjoy your car!

Now that's a great ownership experience right there! Kids, wife involved ..............................making memories! Some of the memory making will be solo, trudging through and resolving. All good! Have fun! Godspeed!

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I just finished reading through a couple of threads about the GBox 2nd gear detent and am adding that to the list as well as motor mounts. Does anyone happen to have any advice if there are any benefits to doing the motor mounts and 2nd gear detent at the same time? I will not be dropping the transmission to do the detent, but wondered if, when lowering the engine for the motor mounts, there might be a pinch more room to work on the transmission. I still need to look into the DIY part of the motor mounts, so that question may not make any sense. The next things on the list to take care of (in no particular order): Change the oil Send a sample for analysis Drop sump and inspect Maybe convert to LN spin-on filter adapter along with the magnetic drain plug and BRS .5QT Deep Sump Oil Pan This package seems like a good deal, but I have not done any reading about it outside of LN's website Gbox 2nd gear detent replacement Motor mounts Remove the front bumper to clean out the radiators Remedy the foam blowing from the vents I've read the DIYs on this one and it seems straight forward enough Test fit a set of Victor Equipment wheels that came with the car as part of the purchase

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Cosworth, love to see this stuff! Your new 996 has a good owner!

Super jealous. Wish I had 8 hands to wash cars with... Next step, teach them how to do all the stuff on your list...

The mounts are right up top and you don�t need to drop/lower anything but rather support. I suppose if you support both the engine, trans and loosen the braces you could drop it a smidge but am not sure if it�ll buy you much. I know doing the AOS can be done like this so who knows?

I was able to mark something off the list today and am sure glad I did it. I took off the front bumper and cleaned out the radiators...well one of the radiators anyways. The left side radiator and condenser look pretty new. When I saw this I was conflicted. I was happy it looked so good, but wondered if I made a mistake taking the bumper off to do this. Then I saw the right side, holy crap! The right side, that side hadn't been touched in who knows how long. It needed a clean out is a bad way. All cleaned up after a lot of brushing and blowing out with the air compressor. I was blowing out sand and tiny pebbles for quite a while. It was obvious the 911 spent some time in California, hahaha! One section of fins on the radiator was severely clogged. I attempted to clean out that section as much as I could with a tooth pick. It looks like one row within that section has some corrosion issues that have messed up a row of fins. I've been looking into which motor mounts to get. I'm on the fence about Wevo, Rennline, and RSS. I do like the adjustability of the Rennline mounts and am leaning that way. I'm planning on ordering whichever mounts I decide on this week and am really looking forward to changing those out. After I see how the motor mounts affect the rear of the 911, I am probably going to tackle the transmission mount and 2nd gear detent next.

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REIN. Save your self some money and headaches.

I was able to test fit the Victor wheels that came with the 911 as part of the purchase. Initially, I was assuming these were wide body fitment due to how wide the rears are, but wanted to test fit them anyways to double check. They do fit with no rubbing, but the rears poke out a bit. You tell me what you think. Here are the specs for the wheels/tires: Fronts: 19x8.5 (offset unknown as it is not stamped inside the wheel) | 245/35/19 Michelin Pilot Sports Rears: 19x11.5 ET56 | 305/30/19 Michelin Pilot Sports I do not intend on keeping these. I would rather stick with 18 inch wheels. The stock twists are in terrible shape, however. They're in bad enough shape that when I took the 911 for a drive to test these Victor wheels, the improvement in the drive was very significant. So I'm going to sell these Victor wheels and get something else. Not sure what wheels yet. I might just get another set of twists in much better shape.

Welcome!! You�ll love the car. all I can say is CHECK YOUR OIL FILTER EVERY TIME!!! And get the oil analysis done EVERY TIME!!! The idea that the dual row doesn�t fail, high mileage means your fine is all hog wash. My 99 with 125k started making metal which I found during an oil change. The cage holding the ***** in place on the IMS was completely gone. I�m in the process of putting it back together after a complete rebuild. Fortunately, there was no additional damage to the engine but it seemed like a good excuse to get it Re-sleeved and stop all the annoying oil leaks.

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What�s your channel? I really nerd out on this kind of thing.

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I think the Victor 19" wheels are wrong for the car. They increase the ride height which is a little odd for the car...and, I'm pretty sure they're much heavier than the 18" BBS Turbo Twists. The 18" Turbo Twists are just right for the car. I'd put the other ones back on the car. If you want the Turbo Twist in a more modern look, I have a set that would sell you if interested. They've been powder coated anthracite grey with matching Porsche center caps. Here is a picture on my 996.

For factory wheels... GT3s are the way.

@b3freak the Victor wheels are already off, and the Twists are back on. I enjoyed the better ride the Victor wheels provided for the very brief drive I went on, but I'm definitely going to sell them. 19s are too big to me, and I agree about the added ground clearance being awkward. At least I found that the poor condition of the Twists is causing a lot of the "rough" ride I've been experiencing. I'll have to think on the offer for your Twists as I was looking at a set of powder coated replacements on ebay. I think that anthracite would look nice on Arctic Silver. @TheChunkNorris I agree! For factory wheels, GT3s are the way. This is a newb question, I know the 996 GT3 is a narrow body. Is there anything needed fitment-wise to make these work on a non-GT3 996? I'll have to search to see what the GT3s look like on a 996 without all the sweet aero bits. As much as I'd like to have the body to match the wheels, that's not in the budget at this time.

Nothing needed they work fine with 0-1* of camber. U may even want to space the front out 8-10mm. The sport techno wheel is also a factory wheel with the gt3 spec but its lighter because its a hollow. This is gt3 height, 3.2* camber kn all 4 and 8mm spacer in front but could probably be a 15mm.

Thanks for the info and specs @De Jeeper ! That's another good looking factory option.

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What DeJeeper said! My car isn't a GT3, it's a 2003 C2 and came with a M030 suspension if you're looking for some reference of ride height. Second photo has the OZ Alleggerita in GT3 sizes BUT it seems as if they're discontinued in silver. The best wheels for the money are Apex and Oz... very light but the advantage goes to Apex as they are forged aluminum. If you can find a set of cheap GT3s it might be worth it but compared to the other wheels I just mentioned, they're heavy. I weighed the GT3 + Tires to the OZ + Tires: Front GT3 wheels with 235-40-18 tires - 49.7lbs Rear GT3 wheels with 285-35-18 tires - 55.9lbs Front OZ wheels with 235-40-18 tires - 40.9lbs Rear OZ wheels with 295-30-18 tires - 47.6lbs

My wheel search has lead me to a set of Techarts that I like quite a bit. I�ve done a good amount of research but figured I would come here for some confirmation on fitment. 18x8 ET42 - thinking 225/40 tires 18x9.5 ET47 - between 265/35 or 275/35 tires I used a nice wheel/tire fitment tool and compared these to Apex SM-10 specs as they have terrific offsets. Fitment as far as being flush on the outside seems really close. I believe these are NB 993 wheels. I�ve found a couple mentions that NB 993 wheels and NB 996 wheels are interchangeable. Is that true?

I'm a Newbie to the Porsche 911 world myself, but have done a good bit of reading before and ongoing ... i do have a contact in the UK that has been 996'ing for some time, he is plugged in to the used Porsche 911 world in the UK and other high quality German stuff also, definitely a car guy, anyhew!! onto my point, he has assisted me during my recent 996 purchase and from conversations he has eluded to the fact of how the market in the UK for the 996 is changing, his skill is to figure out what will be hot and consequently valuable in the next year or two and very specifically he believes the early cars are going to be the first to increase and get hot, very specifically the throttle cable cars in manual transmission with MO30 suspension, and furthermore Factory Aero cars, he told me this a year ago, so your car being a 996.1 in manual is a good one to have, once you know your options i would look to see the suspension and if it has LSD from the factory.. and should you decide to switch from the fried egg headlights don't sell them, keep them, and if you haven't already look up 9werks on you tube , Lee Sibley makes some good content, and he has an early 996 and put some repro fuchs on it, his car is a different color but still what he has done looks good.