Not taking 996s as trade-in?

I had an interesting week in regards to 996 ownership. First I took an older Porsche in to an independent shop to have some work done. I mentioned that I also had a 996, and the owner spent ten minutes telling me what a disaster the engines and gearboxes are, and then urged me to get rid of mine. Coincidentally, I talked to two high end independent dealers this week, and they both told me in so many words that they prefer not to take 996s as trade-ins, no matter what year, mileage, and condition. Then I stopped by the local dealer, and the parts manager told me that while he has ordered a number of new Boxster motors in the last five years, he has never ordered a new 996 engine. All this adds up to I don't know what. But I have started seeing 996 prices in the twenties, and have heard of some auction cars in the teens. What's your experience with trading in or selling a used 996? Uber

If there is a 996 in the teens with no accidents or water damage, let me know, I'll write a check on the spot. I'll be seriously interested even if it's in the 20's, ....so, if you know of any let me know. From, what I've heard, the current motor and tranny are more difficult to work on, and it sounds like your independent mechanic don't have the expertise to deal with the 996 motor, that's all. How ever, 996's may be less desirable as a trade-in as there are so many of them for sale out there. I never had to sell a 996. I don't think I'll have any trouble selling mine,..but, good luck trying to pry it out of my hands. Jeeva

Actually the deal with the motors is that Porsche does not have internal engine or tranny parts advailable to the public (Pistons, cylinders, etc) instead they are selling remanufactured motors for the cars (or new as the case may be in individual cases). same deal for transmission parts although some after market suppliers are starting to carry items for the 996 tranny although they are not porsche parts. i think the market is glutted right now.

Mechanics dont like M96 since they are less maintenance and parts are not available (as prev said). It's pretty much the standard w modern engine - if it fails, get a new one. 996 engines are built to be swapped out easily so not much labor to be made. Stigma on water cool vs air cool still exists which is why early 996 are taking a dump on prices. Engine / tranny failure scare people and the intro of 997 is hurting used car sales. Over production of 996 means they are easy to afford as used and plenty of spare parts.

Stuck between the 993 and 997, I personally believe the 996 will be the least loved 911 by the public, and the trade in and retail value in a few years will reflect that.

Here we go again....... Tell you what, listen to your tech and sell Jeeva your ride for teens or low 20's....... I know there will be many signatures reall soon that read: Porsche 996 SOLD -Eli

What I'm saying is don't get rid of your car because of what others think or say..... I've found that many on the air-cooled side will bash the "water-pumpers" quick. Yet if given the opportunity they would pick one up in a New York minute if someone was willing to swap! Keep it if you like it, if you don't then refer to my last post...... -Eli

Somehow I think my 996 C4S, the last model year C4S to have the rear reflector, will hold it's value just fine... just a hunch.

I don't think ANY 996 platform will hold it's price well. Just look at the 996TT prices. Such is the price of overproduction in order to fund corporate (financial)independence and the future of the name/marque.

All I know is that mine is trouble free at 43,000 miles. And on our long drive with our club last weekend that I was most comfortable and had equal or more acceleration available except for the turbo. My black 993 was more sexy. But this is a way better car.

Who gives a s___!!!!! You buy it to drive it. End of story!!!

Heck I picked my '99 Carrera 2 coupe up for a bit over $28k. It had 62k miles, Guards Red, Full leather and tiptronic with new tires all around. Runs like a dream so I'm happy. There are good deals out there to be found, mine just kinda fell into my lap. -Richard

Do a search on Autotrader, that is BS on teens or twenties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Riad, I think the best thing porsche could have done to help our cars hold their value was to release that ugly-*** 997C4S!

50k and still running strong...no RMS history knock on wood

I have had air cooled Pcars the last 20 years and would have no problem going to a water cooled. A 993 is to close to what I have now and way to much money for little difference. If I could get a mid year 996 for low 30's high 20's I would be there for the power and ride upgrade. The 996 seems to be taking over as the bastard child from our 964's. Precieved problems are not all they are talked up to be sometimes.

Supply and demand. This is what effects the resale value of cars. The 996 and Boxsters have been built in much greater numbers than another other model. If sales go as planned the 987 and 997 will continue this trend. The sheer number of cars produced results in lower resale values. One must also factor into the equation that you are talking about cars in the $40k+ mark where many buyers are buying for status and a �used� car is not their best option. The lack of an independent dealership willing to take a trade of 996 means nothing. The supply of 996 and Boxsters in the auctions (many are still coming of lease) means the independents would rather buy from the auction (lower prices) and make more money (sell it for the same price they could sell a car they took on trade). You will find the same on other high end cars that are made in larger numbers. The thing the 993 and other air cooled cars have going for them is not the air cooled engine but much lower production numbers and they rarely show up at auctions. This is really seen in the turbo where the 996TT was produced in huge numbers compared to the 993tt. The alleged mass engine and tranny problems of the 996 have NOT caused the prices of the Turbo to decrease because the Turbo doesn�t use the same engine and tranny as the NA car. It is purely a numbers game. Porsches have historically held their value so well because they were very low production number cars and much more rare and that fact has really started to change. As other posters have said�who cares? No one should buy a car as an investment (there are some rare exceptions). Cars are means of transportation or even toys. They are depreciating assets. A modern Porsche is going to have a much steeper depreciation curve than that of majority of cars Porsche has historically produced (prior to the 987 and 996) and it all is because of the number of cars produced (and the competition).

independant dealers want it both ways as well. Since prices seemed to be so low, I investigated upgrading MY 2000 for an 02 for the 3.6 and other improvements. Mileage was relatively equal, mine was equipped better option wise, except that 02 had aero kit. The guy wanted 27k difference. I've driven Porsches for almost 30 years and the 996 is by far the best in every respect, until the 997s came out anyway. The supply and demand arguement has merit. I'll just keep the 996 and start major mods everytime I get the urge to trade. If I eventually get to 400+ hp and GT3 looks, why would I need to trade?

I'm thinking the exact same thing. Of course I'm not saying my car isn't depreciating... all I'm saying is that the 996 C4S will hold a tad more value for the Porsche guys that love the rear. And like RLandis said, who cares anyway. I'm going to drive mine until the wheels fall off. Rob

Roger that! The more I look at my car, the more I see the truely classic styling that has been totally lost on the 997C4S, I'll keep mine thank you.

The current issue of EXCELLENCE has a market update on the Boxster and 996. It states "the number one leak for all 996s and Boxsters continues to be the RMS. Depending on who you ask, problem seems to affect between 50% and 100% of the cars". The article goes on to state "It would be easy to dismiss these cars for fear of expensive failures, but it's important to note chain-tensioner problems, valve-guide issues, and other maladies in the Porsche past. And a brand new 986/996 engine can be had for less then some air cooled rebuilds". Do you think the rate is as high as 50%? Is the cost of a new 996 engine as low as a rebuilt. These comments sort of surprised me.

I second Riad's and the Surgeon's comments about the 996 C4S rear vs. new 997 C4S, and would add that the 997 also missed the mark by being inspired by the VW Beetle's front. See for yourself... BTW the 997 is on the right...

IMHO, I still think the 996 C4S is one of the best looking cars on the street, independent of make.

Only deals that fall on my lap are usually over quicker than they began..... $20.00

Good one Eli.

Hey it's Friday!!!!

this is the kind of FUD that makes me wary of spending time on these boards. the 996 is one of the most reliable sports cars out there, period. yes, there are problems, and most garages don't know how to make money on them. once they do, I'm sure they'll trying to do $20k rebuilds on the M96 as well (too bad Porsche has undercut them ) The 996 also has ( IIRC ) the highest resale value in its class -- again just looking at the data. My dealer recently offered me a shocking amount of money, cash, to buy my lowly C2.

Resale value is more personal than anything else. Money can't buy happiness. But a WOT run through your favorite twisties is pure joy. So too is an early morning car wash with your favorite car. Enjoy what you have. And if you have the money to burn, burn it. if not, save it and get what you really want. I've gone through too many cars just to finally get to my C4S!

I couldn't agree with you more. Ever since I found this forum, I have read so many of the infamous rms horror stories. But couple days ago, I also read the rms seal can simply be replaced for under $1k. I am sure that's $1k anyone rather have in their own pockets rather than someone else. But consider the costs of oil change and other maintenance on p-cars in general, I think the rms is one of those overblown issue.

Well put...

Who cares about resale value until you are ready to sell the car??? But any car dealer that won't take a car in trade that he can resell for more, is an a**hole. Check back at that place in 3 months, he won't be working there......

I had a sh*tty day today. Hell, I had a sh*tty week! At about 6PM, I got into my 996 and headed home. By the time I got into my garage, my day was immeasurably better. If you're concerned about 996 resale, re-sell it to someone who will appreciate it's MANY other benefits. NOW, before it depreciates even more!

SRL: Your wisdom is inspiring! Well said!

It seems that the resale value of a car is inversely proportional to its fun factor. My next door neighbor has been buying the Lexus LS models for about the last 12 years. He trades his car in every three years for another LS. His trade-in generally has around 50K miles and the Lexus dealer he goes to gives him far in excess of KBB excellent value and this is after he negotiates a decent discount on his new Lexus. The downside of course is the car. The Lexus is a great car for those who want almost complete isolation from the road. To me it's an extraordinarily boring car to drive, but it is a safe and comfortable car and it does hold its value extremely well. As we all know, it's all about supply and demand. The market for a used Lexus is apparently a lot bigger than for a used Porsche.

My 2 cents: 2 days ago I sold my beloved 996 cab., and I did it 5k over kbb. So probably I did pretty good on the financial side. But the money in the bank gives me absolutely no pleasure or satisfaction versus the special bond that I had with my car...of course, there are things in live more important than cars, but if you are one of us that spend probably too much time in these forums, depreciation should be totally secondary to the joy of owning one of these machines. So now I feel sad and empty...but the anticipation of searching and eventually buying my next Porsche brings back the fun!

I believe that the car one drives speaks volumes about the person who owns it. There are few cars that attract the kind of loyalty that Porsche does. And I believe that it goes far beyond the car's performance and looks. I think it goes to the car's racing heritage and mystique. Hence, the feelings of remorse that you expressed over the sale of your Porsche are shared by many IMO.

"You Are What You Drive" = California Motto. While that may be shallow and materialistic, it is true to some extent. When being described by your friends, chances are that they will add "he drives a Porsche." That isn't said about Lexus owners. My C4S turns many heads -- heads who are unaware of production numbers and RMS issues. And, most importantly, it still puts a smile on my face each time I drive it. I won't be selling soon, so don't look for me to add to the supply side of the equation.

Isn't that the truth!!! Excellent point. Anytime I need a pick me up I go for a spirited drive.

Just for reference, some recent data points on auction sales at manheim: 07/15/05 MANHEIM Regular $35,200 25,328 Above SILVER 6G 6 Yes 07/14/05 MANHEIM Regular $33,500 39,648 Above SILVER 6G A Yes 07/14/05 MANHEIM Regular $22,200 42,381 Below SILVER 6G 6 Yes 07/14/05 NEVADA Lease $27,750 69,745 Avg SILVER 6G A Yes 07/12/05 DFW Lease $29,500 52,335 Avg SILVER 6G 6 Yes 07/07/05 GTR TMPA Lease $21,800 75,231 Below BLACK 6G A Yes 07/06/05 CADE Lease $26,700 57,202 Avg SILVER 6G M Yes 06/30/05 MANHEIM Lease $26,500 53,036 Avg GREY 6G 6 Yes 06/30/05 MANHEIM Lease $26,000 69,900 Avg BLACK 6G 6 Yes 06/29/05 ATLANTA Regular $21,500 84,460 Below CHAMP 6G 6 Yes 06/29/05 CADE Regular $24,700 72,442 Avg SILVER 6G A Yes 06/28/05 SAN DIEG Lease $32,800 51,995 Above WHITE 6G A Yes 06/28/05 SAN DIEG Lease $30,900 59,306 Avg BLACK 6G 6 Yes 06/23/05 RIVRSIDE Regular $31,500 595,028 Avg BLACK 6G M No 06/22/05 SAN ANTO Lease $32,500 33,509 Above SILVER 6G 6 Yes 06/21/05 LOS ANGL Lease $25,100 75,848 Avg BLACK 6G 6 Yes 06/21/05 SAN DIEG Lease $29,600 50,005 Avg SILVER 6G 6 Yes These are MY99 996C2s. These things are cheap. I might pick one up for the track... -dc

Having bought 25 or so cars since 1987, I guess that makes me a multiple personality!!!!!

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Care to share what '03 996 Coupes are running at Manheim these days?

Interesting point on the RMS. As we all know it does not take much to get a $1k repair bill from a Porsche shop (dealer or independent). Heck I had to replace the RMS on my SC and since it was an engine out job that was almost $1k . Just curious on the production numbers - I di d not think that many turbos were produced? Were there that many more 996 turbos then 993 turbos?