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YOUR RESEARCHWhich 996.2 Would You BUY?
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Suggestion
Along the way check the PCA site, PCAR, Facebook, etc.
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Suggestion
I like the Targa, but only after it has been bore scoped from the bottom and a UOA done and clean bill of health.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I�m thinking for about $6k I can have the IMS, UAOS, RMS, water pump all replaced, along with other bits that should be replaced while the power train is out, and for $28k all in, I�ve got a Targa that will always be somewhat rare and valuable.
I�m thinking for about $6k I can have the IMS, UAOS, RMS, water pump all replaced, along with other bits that should be replaced while the power train is out..<<<< I do like your thinking here though...
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Suggestion
Mileage doesn't scare me if oil changes have been done religiously.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I�m thinking for about $6k I can have the IMS, UAOS, RMS, water pump all replaced, along with other bits that should be replaced while the power train is out, and for $28k all in, I�ve got a Targa that will always be somewhat rare and valuable.
I�m thinking for about $6k I can have the IMS, UAOS, RMS, water pump all replaced, along with other bits that should be replaced while the power train is out..<<<< I do like your thinking here though...
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Suggestion · Original poster
I�m thinking for about $6k I can have the IMS, UAOS, RMS, water pump all replaced, along with other bits that should be replaced while the power train is out, and for $28k all in, I�ve got a Targa that will always be somewhat rare and valuable.
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Suggestion
The car has been run with Amsoil synthetic oil for the last few years, he says the original owner is a family friend who he believes did the IMS years ago, but he doesn�t have docs.
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Suggestion
IMHO, you want a 996.2 that not only passes the PPI, oil test, sump debris test, and borescope, you want to see the service history to make sure proper service and replacements were done recently.
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For SoCal living with an Auto - I'm taking the Targa a hundred times out of 100. Let's face it, an auto makes this more of a cruiser / GT than a track slayer. Steer into it with the Targa and that open top life. Cruising in perfect weather with an open top without losing the aesthetic appeal of the coupe - perfect.
The Targa is said to not have a single scratch or ding. I�m thinking for about $6k I can have the IMS, UAOS, RMS, water pump all replaced, along with other bits that should be replaced while the power train is out, and for $28k all in, I�ve got a Targa that will always be somewhat rare and valuable. Hard decision!
Both look and sound nice. Both don't have evidence of a IMSB change so that point is even. Could honestly just flip a coin on this one, while the mileage is higher on the Targa its a little more unique.
Zbomb is nuts on. For SoCal traffic and cruising the PCH or to Palm Springs, Borrego, El Sweato? Targa. And you’ve pretty much decided that. The coupe isn’t interesting enough to override the choice.
I currently own a 2000 cab, six-speed; however, if I were to do it over again, I think that I would choose a Targa...but having lived in So Cal years ago, and with the traffic driving my old 356, I completely understand the slushbox as I once had a moment of reflection when an early automatic 911 came up for sale.
I like the Targa, but only after it has been bore scoped from the bottom and a UOA done and clean bill of health.
With the Mercedes paddle shifter conversion you can shift gears all you want and wont miss the clutch pedal at all...
Bore scoping a car that has survived 120,000 miles, had its oil changed regularly, and been maintained as meticulously as this one seems over the top. I�ve talked to four different very popular Porsche shops in LA who all told me the same thing. That those few times they�ve had IMS or bore scoring failures have either been cars that were in cold climates, abused, or not driven enough (soccer moms and old guys who didn�t drive regularly). I�m in Southern Cal. Both of these are west coast cars.
Well ok then ( eyeroll) you probably saved yourself $200 dollars by not taking my advice..
Bore scoring is probably 5x more prevalent on 996.2 than IMS failures, and they were the worst for IMS failures...
I�m thinking for about $6k I can have the IMS, UAOS, RMS, water pump all replaced, along with other bits that should be replaced while the power train is out..<<<< I do like your thinking here though...
Thank you. This feedback is what I need. I don�t profess to be an authority on any of this. Five years of 996 ownership have taught me a lot but none of it makes me an authority. I�m not mechanical at all.
Spoiler
Spoiler
2003 Targa with 120k miles for $22,000. The owner is in his 80s, he�s a retired military guy with boats and trucks and lots of time to meticulously tend to his stuff. The car has been run with Amsoil synthetic oil for the last few years, he says the original owner is a family friend who he believes did the IMS years ago, but he doesn�t have docs. The targa top opens and closes almost silently, and the car looks like it just came off the showroom floor. Have not seen the car in person because it�s 350 miles away. But I trust the man, and I feel the pull of the Targa and it�s specialness.
Ignore the above
2003 Targa with 120k miles for $22,000. The owner is in his 80s, he’s a retired military guy with boats and trucks and lots of time to meticulously tend to his stuff. The car has been run with Amsoil synthetic oil for the last few years, he says the original owner is a family friend
who he believes did the IMS years ago
, but he doesn’t have docs. The targa top opens and closes almost silently, and the car looks like it just came off the showroom floor. Have not seen the car in person because it’s 350 miles away. But I trust the man, and I feel the pull of the Targa and it’s specialness.
If the IMS was replaced and the shop followed protocol, there's a chance you might be able to find out
not infallible, but could help going forward
http://imsretrofit.com/ims-check/
If the IMS was replaced and the shop followed protocol, there's a chance you might be able to find out
not infallible, but could help going forward
http://imsretrofit.com/ims-check/
thanks. That�s just for LN. Tried it.
Forget sbout targa vs coupe.
Lets talk 120k versus 60k.
No clue if the imsb was actually replaced?...
Dont care if the guy was in the military or a professional chef, you got no idea if any service was actually done. Any records at all?
No bore scope?...
May all pan out, and i hope it does, but I have a bridge to sell you...
Be careful. Remember, there are alot of 996s for sale, and there will be even more as the recession builds steam. Do your due diligence.
thanks for the sanity check. I�m leaning towards having a bore scope done with the PPI on the 60k mile coupe and bailing on the 120k black beauty Targa. I�ll be investing in a car with lots of life in it, and if I decide to sell in the next 2-3 years my mileage will be low, and the work done on it in my hands will all be documented.
It's a hard choice for me.
But I think I'd go for the coupe with 1/2 the mileage.
But only after I had an invasive PPI with bore scoping...unless I find a spare $22K laying around for a rebuild if I lose my $800 bet.
...if the parts are even available to rebuild an engine now.
With a 24 year history, we pretty much know everything that could fail on the car, why it will fail and most likely when. Not to mention what to do so your 996 doesnt fail. Sure, there is always an exception to the rule.
So a car with a complete service history with all of the service, procedures, bits and parts properly refreshed over its life, including very frequent oil changes is utopia. The PPI, oil testing results and dropping the sump with a bore scope, helps to confirm it.
If I was selling my car, and I took the best damn care of it, I would prove it like Nyoutftr did. Kudos.
If I didn't take care of it and really had no clue about the car and it's history but just wanted to sell it, then I would do like most of the sellers on BAT.
You know what it costs to rebuild an engine at LN, FSI and even a short block program at a dealer or even your favorite indy with or without a waiting period. Approximately 20-40k. Cheaper if you do it yourself.
You also know what an engine refresh will cost to do if it hasnt been properly done in full with the imsb (retro or sol), RMS, clutch, flywheel, cooling system parts, aos, coils, plugs, fuel injectors, oil cooler, sensors, etc. Approximately 15-20k. Cheaper if you do it yourself and even cheaper if some of these have been recently replaced. Hint, hint.
You also know what a suspension and exhaust refresh will cost you with oem and aftermarket parts. Approximately 15-20k. Cheaper if you do it yourself and even cheaper if these have already been recently replaced. Hint, hint.
IMHO, you want a 996.2 that not only passes the PPI, oil test, sump debris test, and borescope, you want to see the service history to make sure proper service and replacements were done recently. Hint, hint.
Three red flags on a 996.2. (1) a boat load of owners which suggests that they didnt own it long enough to actually service the car properly. (2) no service history which suggests that the previous owners didn't care enough to properly service the car, (3) oem IMSB which suggests again that the previous owners were just short term owners and didn't care enough to perform the proper procedures.
Big difference between being just an owner of a Porsche to say you own one, and being a Porsche enthusiast.
All things to take into consideration with pricing all 996s, independent of whether you want a targa or coupe.
Bottom line is that you will find the perfect one. Discipline and patience is key as the economy slows.
I personally look at this differently. Coupe vs. Targa is the most important thing to decide here, because that is something you can never change. You may have no real preference in which case you can move onto assessing other factors. I understand Glenn's point here about service records, but I will say that buying from an enthusiast who is upfront about the car and cared for it can be a big plus even if they don't have records. I have bought a lot of cars over the years from a slew of different types of sellers and the enthusiast is definitely the best way to go. In my experience if they are passionate about the car and willing to point out all the little flaws they are
usually
being straight up with you. Beyond that I personally don't think the mileage is worth $10k, especially if you are willing and able to get the engine rebuilt when it inevitably needs it. Also, depending on the oil change intervals and other care factors it is entirely possible the 120k mile engine is in better shape. You never know. It's a gamble we all take and/or get invasive PPIs to mitigate.
This is a legitimate concern especially if you can't afford to be with out your car for a year.
Edit: I will add that I can do all my own work, so $10k goes a long way when it is just in parts.
Haven't bought one for 20 years. But you want one that has been well care for.
I would get involved with your local PCA and start going to events and let it be known that you are looking.
I would also go to the local Porsche indies and do two things (1) let them know you are in the market for one and see if they know of any as well as (2) let them know you need a place to PPI and Scope them. They know the cars they work on better than anybody.
Along the way check the PCA site, PCAR, Facebook, etc. Problem with online auctions is the difficulty in location. Not to mention the inability to negotiate in person as you are going thru the service history or lack thereof.
Plenty out there. You just gotta get in the right lake to go fishing.
it may be uncouth, but I offered a bounty both on Rennlist and on the PCA member website. It was effective. I picked up a lower, but appropriate-mileage 2003 C4S with a good color combination and extensive records, with IMS/RMS and other major items documented. I may have paid a little "above market" but it was well within my target range. The original owner reached out to the guy he'd sold it to a decade before and helped negotiate the deal.
I specifically wanted a C4S manual and had a few other requirements in the spec. Good examples seem to be drifting up in price so I thought an aggressive approach was merited.
it worked out. The seller was happy, I'm happy, and the guy who helped me find it got his bounty.
I bought both of my current P-cars from Rennlisters and had great experiences both times. Both cars were well cared for and came with thick binders of service history. Good guys both times too. Only thing with Rennlist is it can be tough to find cars local to you and there aren't typically a ton for sale here.
I have seen ads, pictures, and videos of cars that look perfect. And then I show up and it�s a pile of garbage. How can that be? Well, it�s like the movies. You can make a lot of things looks great with the right lighting, angles, etc.
Not saying it�s the case here with the targa, and plenty of people buy cars sight unseen, but I will never buy a car I didn�t look over, inside and out. I�m too particular about seemingly little details that some don�t even see.
