Timing Chains/Guides/Tensioners, 119k miles... Should I?

Hello everyone! Its been a while... I have the opportunity to buy back my old 911! I sold her a couple years back to a local gentleman (who became a friend) and now he wants to buy something else so "Sally" is available. Built in 01/98, she has 119K on her now (3K more than I sold her with) and still runs as well as ever. Of course she will need Timing chains/guides/tensioners and a host of other "while your in there" items. A specialist will likely charge about $10K for everything I'd like to perform (purchase price is very attractive) but the question is, would dumping this much money in a 119K mile motor just beg for pain? I've seen plenty of examples of stock motors got well over 200K (Hoovie....) but ... but... but... I know a Jake Raby rebuild is in the $30K range now... and Im unfortunately NOT down for that LOL. What are my options? Am I sick? Should I pass? Should I jump back into Sally and take her the next mile!?

Why do you think you need to do all that? Is there any indication that chains are stretched, guides are worn, and tensioners are weak?

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yes, years ago when I dropped the oil sump, i found pieces of plastic in there. it was determined they were from my chain guides. Might not "need" chains and tensioners but cheap insurance since the motor would be apart?

DGI - What is your list of things to fix and replace on the motor? $10G is a lot of lettuce for any work short of a rebuild.

Check your Cam Deviations. If they are out of spec I would have the pads and chains done. I don't anything know about the tensioners - whether they're a "while you're in there" thing or only if needed. I paid $7800 for IMSB, Pads, chains, UAOS install (I supplied the UAOS parts) and few other small items.

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Timing Chains, Pads Tensioners? Water Pump, Coolant Reservoir, Thermostat IMS upgrade RMS Clutch AOS Thats about $4K in parts according to FCP Euro. Im assuming engine in/out from a specialist will be at least $1K. The bulk of the labor would be for the timing chain job since all the other stuff has to be removed (or would be easily accessible) while the engine is out... Got some unidentified leaks that would likely be addressed while its sitting on a table... How much would a full engine rebuild be? I remember seeing the RND Rebuilds in the $20K range...

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+1 My vario cam pads were actually pretty worn at around 60k, with some deviation #s on my 01 3.4. Glad I did them, and generally these 5 chain motors tend to run into pretty high miles when the vario cam pads with new chains are done, the ims, aos/uaos, water pump, lower temp stat, new injectors, and lots of fresh oil. As I�m sure you know, there�s definitely a lower incidence seen of bore scoring on the 3.4 (which is a positive.) Also, I always try to be very mindful of my temp gauge, striving to keep the car cool-changing the water pump at reasonable time and mileage intervals, running a low temp stat or adding the third radiator- will hopefully reduce any risk of head issues (as some of the earlier cars did have the cracked head intermix concerns)

Not crazy. Just do it! If the entry price is good and you know the history of upkeep, refreshing these things will assure it will run for the next 100K. You could spend your purchase price plus $10k on a lower mileage car, but you won't know anything about how it was kept or treated. You'll need to spend another $10k to sort it. Just double check the primary sign of possible future scoring while the engine is open, assuming no scoring now: piston skirt coatings... And add injectors to your list unless they've been done recently. It's the smile machine! Welcome back!

And now, for a different perspective on repurchasing a car you previously owned: I had the opportunity to repurchase an Alfa Romeo I had previously owned for 26 years. In those 26 years I had rebuilt the motor twice, re-did the entire interior, chopped out all the rot and welded in fresh panels and patches, painted the car, and countless other little odds and ends associated with maintaining an Italian sports car from the 70's. Gentle readers, when the opportunity to re-purchase arose , I seriously considered it as I really loved that car, that's why I had kept it 26 years. But then I thought, been there, done that , there was a reason I sold it after 26 years, and so I passed on the opportunity. Now, I know an Alfa Romeo is not a Porsche, but for me, the principal would still be the same. So instead of re-purchasing the Alfa Romeo, I bought a Jaguar XJS V-12, and shortly thereafter a Jaguar E-Type, and so began your humble narrator's Jaguar fiasco! (not really a fiasco, I seriously enjoyed both cars, but that British engineering was diabolical!) So there's that.

I bought a 2001 C2 with 117k miles that needed the same work done + IMS bearing, motor mounts, and a few other things that ended up costing me $12k total from the most reputable shop I could find near me. Wise investment? I don�t know about that� but I sure am having fun driving the car! Hopefully I can put a ton of miles on it and keep it for a long time� Dumping that money into it was painful, but my purchase price was only $14k so I�m pleased with what I have now.

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I entirely appreciate this perpective. I owned a Jeep Wrangler for 14 years, even shipped it to Greece for 4 years. Thats my Jeep experience, will never buy another. I always loved GTI VR6s. I bought the ULTIMATE iteration, a 2008 R32. Loved that car but after selling it, that was my �GTI� experience. No where to go but down� Owned a 2013 Mini JCW Clubman. Pinnacle of modern Minis in my opinion. Space, sportiness, looks. Was a great daily driver, weekend back road blaster for 4 years. Sold it but I cant imagine having another Mini without it being less of an experience. Now the 911� my old 911 was great! Cant imagine a newer one being a better car for the money. A GT3 would be great but at over 4-6 times the cost of this proposed project, would it offer that much more? Plus newer cars dont have as much space it seems, cant remove the center console, etc. But if the 996 is destined to blow up, that wont be fun either (the main reason I sold it to begin with)

Question for the group: Is it common to not replace the chains, and only do the pads, rails, and tensioners? Also not to replace the "?" shaped IMS guide?

It comes down to whether you intend to keep it or will be selling it again in a few years. I had $15,000 worth of preventive maintenance and suspension work done in the last year. Does that make financial sense? Absolutely not if I was going to sell it, but that's not something I would even consider.

U can only change the 2 small cam chains. It is recommended when doing pads. They r under $30 each and its apart anyways. U can do the long chain guides if u dissassemble a little more if needed. u can not get to any of the the ims parts without splitting the case. The op may want to add injectors to the list The way i see it, its basically a one time maintenance that should carry the motor for another 20yrs

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The chains are not expensive and can be the cause of ruin. They are definitely a "while you're in there" thing. Someone else can chime in about the tensioners.

Tensioners r deff a wear item. They r under $200 each and need to be removed for the above work...... change them

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Thanks. Not really what I was asking, though I agree about 20yrs until next time. If the main large rails are being replaced, is there any reason not to replace the main chain? Can one be accessible without access to the other? Do the small chains "stretch"? Do the small chain require removal to replace the cam pads? I understand about splitting the case; I'm asking if most people elect to have that done, or not? Agreed 100% .

U can not replace the long chains or ims chain without splitting the case. There is no while u r in there decision to be made. The long chain pads can be removed through the head if u seperate the clutch and pull the oil pimp casset to access their bolts. The variocams have to be pulled from the cams so the system had to be fully dissassembled for the pads, so yes the small cam chains r fully removed in this process. if u search my name u should be able to find my thread. It has pics.

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Thank you for the confirmation. Everything you mentioned, I was already under the impression of, based on my research, and having read through a thread of yours, in doing so. I only ask specifically as this seems to be "common knowledge", that a main dealer should know. Would you agree with that statement and assumption? Thanks and sorry to side track/thread jack. Just figured easier to ask versus clutter the board with a similar topic

Well its a 20yr/old car with a motor that was only run for 4 years. These details may not be remembered by a service manager or even a tech. If u r gonna sub out the work i would find a good indy through pca or this board. These repairs r pretty straight foward and good indy mechanic should be able to save u a lot of money. I was able to do all the things u mentioned on my motor with just a Bentley book and this forum. It would go much smoother the second time so like i said an indy with a little 996 experience should be fine.

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I have a really well known Specialist ( https://www.ralphsautoservice.net ) in my back yard but im inclined to give it a shot with a service manual and some time. Buying parts from FCP Euro has never let me down and it seems they have some nice packages for these exact tasks. Looky here: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/por...he-996timingkt $900 for an all inclusive Chain/Pad/Tensioner package... seems pretty hard to beat! Pretty confident in being able to drop/install the motor easy enough. Its the in between stuff that would be a leap of faith (and a learning experience).

I hesitate to mention but i have all those parts out of the motor that i blew up. All the new parts have less then 250miles. There was no intemix or debis past the pan but the parts r used. I could put some things together and make u a pretty good deal if u want? I also have a new tensioner/seliniod and a used tensioer with a new seliniod for the other side. I also have the cam tools i could sell u. I dont need it since i changed to the mezger

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PM sent

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I replaced the cam pads within 6 mos of ownership. The job was pretty straight forward. The one thing about FCP packages is there is no discount so you can leave out the things you don't need.

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Im going back and fourth on the chains. Is there any documentation that these chains stretch? a pad change would seem a bit easier than going after chains if theres no need...

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U r not understanding. The only 2 of the 5 chains that u can change have to be fully removed, out of the motor and off the variocam acuators. For the $25 each its wise to buy new ones.

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thanks for the pics, i get it now. still interested in your parts, I was just trying to see which parts from FCP were needed since their kit comes with more than I can replace it seems.

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I'm not understanding, lol. Do the two large chains require replacement, when replacing the rails? Can they be inserted, and "fished" in/out through the top access, like the rails?

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The only 2 chains out of the 5 that u can replace without splitting the motor in half is the cam chains in the pic. The other 3 chains can stretch but the varible timing can adjust in most cases. no u dont change the 2 long chains or ims chain unless u r rebuilding the motor. Dgi, just real busy. Ill get back to u.

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no rush brother. I�ll be around.