i bought a 966 with this 3.8 engine... is it good?

Hi guys... just wanted to see what your opinion is on this... I recently bought a 2004 996 C4S and long story short i found out after that my engine was a rebuild... it was rebuilt when odometer reads 46XXX km, the car now has 57XXX km. The reason of the rebuild was cylinder scoring (I think)... it's been taken apart and engine block halves been sent to LN Engineering for 3.8 upgrade. And the re-assemble was done by a very reputable local indy porsche shop. I am not familiar with engines, so there are a few questions i have... 1. It was a cold winter up in Toronto last year and i think that's the reason for the engine to have seized and required a rebuild . with this upgrade by adding LN Nickies, would i have the same problem in extreme cold weather and cylinder scoring? 2. From what I gathered reading the forums, I have bought a gem of a 3.8 engine, since this was a costly rebuild and no one will do it just because they want to go 3.8. But i wonder if the previous owner just did enough to get by and sell the car or should he have gotten more done? (i think the clutch was changed, but AOS and such did not, would there be more should have done? ) 3. Do i need a ECU re-tune? or would the shop have already done it? the car currently idles fine and response well. I am just not sure if the ECU is running the car as a 3.6 or 3.8 4. Anything else I should watch out for? Here are the list of parts listed on the bill: REMOVE ENGINE AND DISASSEMBLE. SEND ENGINE BLOCK HALVES TO LN ENGINEERING FOR 3.8L UPGRADE. SEND HEADS FOR REBUILD. REASSEMBLE ENGINE 99mm Nickies for 3.8L JE Piston Set w/rings Chromoly Oil Pump Hex Drive Billet Tensioner Paddle IMS Upgrade Upgraded Thermostat /Housing Connecting Rods & Hardware Engine Gasket Set Spark Plug Intake Manifold Gasket Pressure Plate Bolt Flywheel Bolt Intake Maifold Gasket Rebuild Cyl Head Each Spark Plug Seal Spark Plug Seal One-Half Rod Bearing One-Half Main Bearing Thrust Collar Cam Plug small Vario Cam Seal Spark Plug Seal Cylinder Head Gasket Exhaust Manifold bolts Cam Plug Large Sublet to magnaflux and balance crankshaft with rotating assembly as per recommendation from LN engineering Centre driver shaft rubber dampener badly torn Replace dampener

I think it's a gem and don't lose sleep over it. Hey, you're the one that started the phone thread.....

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should i start another phone thread??

If LN/Flat Six built you a 3.8, I would sleep very well at night knowing no detail was overlooked and that you have a good product.

Why not give the indy shop a call and ask them?

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This!

Who did the work? Also wondering why PO would sell it after doing all that work but if he wanted to move on and he could get a certain amount for it, I could understand. OTOH, if you got it for a great price, then it could be more suspect I suppose. Did the shop or LN install the Pistons? I ask because a good shop would've adjusted the piston ring clearances to account for the cold weather environment, thus reducing the chances of scoring in the future. I did notice they used billet tensioner paddle at least which seems to be a good sign of not taking shortcuts.

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I believe the previous owner may not be an enthusiast guy who probably think the car has trouble and engine failed, so to him is not a good sign of a car to keep, thus fixing and selling.

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I'm sure people can and do take shortcuts, but it's really hard to think a shop would spend that much on cylinders and then not finish the job correctly.

Could always contact Jake, I am sure there would be records of it (if it had been done there).

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huh? Or am I missing something?

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Jake Raby, at Flat Six....

It's a ticking time bomb. I'll take it off your hands.

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Get a pic of the engine serial number. I believe Jake keeps records of all the engines he touches. You'll probably need to get a pic of engine serial along with a pic of a valid title at the least to get any info though.

The ECU does not need to be modified it has the ability to adjust air/fuel on its own. I have the same 3.8 in my 4S. Don't sweat the rebuild process. If the car is running fine just enjoy it. Unlike you I had to pay for it myself. Curious what you were able to purchase this car for with the upgraded engine? PM if you like.

as already pointed out, ask these two people: indy who did the work or Jake. or both.

I don't know. Sounds risky. Tell you what, I have a 55K motor in my car with recent IMS done. Runs great. I will trade you straight up so you don't have to worry. I'm just a nice guy like that and have nerves of steel so it won't stress me out like most. Again, just want to help a fellow enthusiast because I'm nice like that. I kid of course. Contact the LN and the builder and get any details you can but I would think don't worry, be happy. Hopefully you scored. Wait... hopefully it's not scored. Ah, whatever. Enjoy the drive.

My 2003 C2 was bored out to 3.8 last year by LN following an IMS failure. The actual assembly was done by my local Indy. My mileage was similar to yours at the time. I have no idea about many of the questions you pose, related to why the former did or didn't do this and such. The folks who did the work should be able to shed some light on the situation, no? You should have no complaints about how the car drives. It is a qualitative difference, IMO.

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i have not driven the car as it was a 3.6... so i can't tell...

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Why bang your head? That would be appropriate if it went from 3.8 to 3.6, and you missed the chance to drive the 3.8. It didn't. Trust me, you are driving the nicer version. If there is no hidden issue, you have snagged a spectacular ride with what, 15K miles on it? That's the way I look at it.

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+996

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+966

Why TF would Jake know anything about work done by LN? I had my Craftsman lawnmower serviced by Sears. Wonder if I should call Jake and ask them what exactly they did...

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What sort of oil did they use in the craftsman ?

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Because they are both in the same bed and I'm sure exchange info, regardless of what they say.

No, no: ME first. I'll take the burden, in exchange for my straight '03 C4S... Honestly, you probably have a very nice upgraded C4S on your hands. Enjoy it. And trade me, if it keeps you up: because I'm planning to give Jake Raby a fairly substantial amount of $ to refurbish my engine in '16, otherwise.

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They work together.....like that is a mystery. So what? There is no conspiracy or cloak and dagger.

holy ****, I'm not sure if the reading comprehension in this thread is in the toilet or what. The actual cylinder halves had Nickies installed by LN. That was it. The reassembly of the motor (the more important part) was done by a local indy. As has been said before, the local indy is the one who can shed some light on the set up and may be able to provide key specs like bearing clearance, ring gaps, etc.

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I tried, 5CHN3LL tried, but it seems people start typing with their semi hard to erect ***** and stop reading or paying attention as soon as they hear the engine could have anything to do with JR.

Yea I would not be able to sleep at night. Because I would be out driving the ever loving **** out of the car

I think you safe with cold starts with that engine. Nikasil is more durable for wear, even though it may not have the same clearances that Flat-6 would use now in his build today and as I understood has been a progression of changes. Yours should be much longer lasting then the lokasil cyclinder lining in the original engine. Here is a list of a internals taken from one http://rndengines.com/ , I consider this makes up a excellent rebuild. All though I'd want a new AOS, and have the alternator rebuilt. Nickies� Cylinder Sleeves by LN Engineering Intermediate Shaft bearing upgraded with IMS Retrofit All Internal Gaskets and Seals Camshaft and Camshaft Sprocket Bolts Camshaft Position Sensor Connecting Rod Bolts Crankcase Bolts Cylinder Head Bolts Engine Oil Cooler Engine Oil Drain Plug Hydraulic Valve Lifters Knock Sensor Main Bearings Oil Filler Pipe Oil Filter Cover Cap Oil Pressure Switch Oil Separator Piston Rings Reference Mark Sensor Rod Bearings Sensors Solenoids Spark Plugs Temperature Sensor Thermostat (Low-Temp version) Timing Chain, Rails, and Tensioners Valve Cover Bolts Water Pump Wrist Pin Clips

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That's not the way I understood it as there was some ambiguity as to whether the pistons were also installed by LN when it was in for service at LN. It could be understood both ways. I was assuming the pistons were also installed by LN but I guess no one will really know(one of the reasons I recommended OP contacting LN directly to see if there are records of what work they actually did).

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I don't know why they wouldn't label and gap the pistons and rings as long as they were doing the cylinders. But then again I'm not a engine builder, I'll have to ask my friends sometime if this is common or not. [edit] I was assuming they had all the parts at LN at the same time. I'm guessing now based on the image below they don't.

The case halve arrives separately. like this. Indy must install the JE pistons provided by LN

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Is that the case 100% of the time or do they also offer service of installing the pistons as well? EDIT: I guess since technically Charles is co owner of Bilt Racing, they can also install the pistons although it's a separate company. I just don't know if LN actively promotes this service with their partner company or not when getting it resleeved. http://biltracingservices.com/

I don't know. That is a question for Charles. I assume they ship parts separately each time though.

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We ONLY prepare blocks for engines we will be building 100% in house. We don't offer individual services for engine rebuilds, like machining and boring. If you want a Nickies engine we can build it better than anyone, because I developed the assembly procedures, skirt clearances and other pieces of the process for LN Engineering.

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So, I guess it was not done there, lol. Thanks Jake....

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it was shipped to LN... not Flat6