26 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHFresh observation 996 vs. 993
Leading reported evidence
Replace with conventional tires
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
And a few that had RF that I replaced with conventional tires.
Leading evidence: 'Replace with conventional tires' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Repair /maintenance costs are high' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
If we think repair/maintenance costs are high for our 996's, wait until the 991s are off warranty.
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Suggestion
And changing a tire only requires a can of goop under pressure and a Hindu prayer book.
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Suggestion
The service/repair complications of the pdk posted in the 997 forums reflects technology run amuck.
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Suggestion
This may be true, but at what expense - BMW run flat tyres IIRC.
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26 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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I've read some of the older threads. I owned a '95 993 Cabriolet (Tiptronic) for 7 years. I'm now on my 3rd week of 996 ownership ('03 C4 Cab, 6 speed).
The most noticeable difference is the 996 is so much more refined. Yes, the 'knife edged' feeling of the 993 is gone. However, in over-all handling, I give the nod to the 996. Both cars have that "glued to the ground" feeling. Both have (especially for a power steering equipped car) fantastic road feel through the steering wheel.
Frankly, several of my older air-cooled non-power steering cars had even better "tactile" feedback through the steering wheel. (an '87 5 speed Targa and an '88 5 speed Cab).
The best comparison I can make to the over-all feeling generated while driving the 996 is a BMW M3.
As I am now quite a bit older than when I started with 911s (1972), the current model is hands down, my favorite. I'd be interested in driving a 991 just to compare to my - now 12 year old - car.
993 - a great classic Porsche 911 refined as far as it could be taken. The lines and the performance justify every dollar it takes to buy one.
996 - the beginning of the new era, a work in progress but still very much a driver's car. A modern classic in the tradition of the XK120-E type Jags, the Mercedes 300 SLs, and the late fifties/early sixties Ferraris and Maseratis. Like the best wine, it take time to be appreciated.
997 - a step in the wrong direction...a few small improvements in performance but negated by far too much automation. The IMS issues are finally put to bed, but the PDK transmission proves that there can be too much of a good thing...aka sometimes less is more. And changing a tire only requires a can of goop under pressure and a Hindu prayer book.
991 - a two door version of the Panamera...with the worst idea Porsche has ever come up with...the electric emergency/parking brake. I can only assume in an electrical outage they have come up with a way to disengage the brake with a jump starter. And because the car is now as large as many four door sedans, instead of a spare tire or a pressurized can of goop, they put a restored 356 in the frunk.
In the end the 996 will become highly collectable, not because of what came before but because of what came afterwards.
Dennis I have read all the praises about the driving improvments of the 997 over the 996. And I take them as true...just as the driving improvements of the 996 over the 993 are also true. But I think (just my opinion) Porsche is moving away from "daily drivers" and into "exotic weekend" cars. The service/repair complications of the pdk posted in the 997 forums reflects technology run amuck. A car with a can of air instead of a spare tire is a car made for people who would be better suited in the self driving pod/cars now on the drawing boards of many manufacturers. Just my opinion.
Now you've done it!
The 997.2 is the last great 911. Gorgeous, refined and of course, bulletproof. End of discussion. No more comment. Your opinion doesn't count. End of debate.
Especially 2012 Black Edition C2 Cabs. Manual of course.
I do agree with you on the spare tire thing; it seems a bit silly not to have an inflatable spare at a minimum like my 996 C4S had. My 997 is a manual, not a PDK. The 997 TT is the last turbo that was sold with a manual. I find the driving experience to be quite similar to the 996. Try it... You'll like it! Nice always felt that the 997 was an incremental improvement to the 996, not a complete departure like the 991.
I'm only in partial agreement with this statement. It depends on the intent or other decisions. In the case of some BMW M cars for example, they chose to sacrifce the spare tire area in the trunk so they could fit a better exhaust in place of it. To me as an enthusiast, this was an acceptable design decision.
A different take: I own a 993 and have looked into getting a 997 in the future (the 996s are nice but I can't stand the interior).
As the 993 has increased in value some of the joy of ownership has been taken away. I believe it was Pete Stout of Pano who wrote something similar recently: when the value of a car skyrockets some of the fun gets taken away. Instead of car you can leave parked on the street, at Wal Mart, etc., you think: "There's a pretty valuable (
and difficult to replace
) car sitting out there - will it be there when I return?" "Is someone going to plow into my priceless collectible at an intersection?" It'll be a royal pain to try to find another. Should I even bother?
Now, I don't see them necessarily as collectible but they are headed that way and it kinda stinks, unless you're in just for the money. Drive the **** out of them now.
Porsche is going down the 'electronics laden' road.
In the future [I believe] enthusiasts will be reluctant to buy 991 models because the price of electronic repairs will be too daunting. This is one reason why the 996 will look more appealing; less electronic gadgetry, better air conditioning than the early air cooled models, good handling, no direct injection and the problems this brings, etc.
I had a 6 series BMW that I gave back to the dealer because of electrical problems the dealer could not fix. The car was beautiful; V-8 engine, sport package, winterization package, etc.
What kept going wrong was a 'Dynamic Drive' code would throw. This was BMW's edition of PASM. Too bad, it was a nice car.
Porsche has electromagnetic engine mounts, decoupling sway bars, PASM, etc.
Too much junk.
This may be true, but at what expense - BMW run flat tyres IIRC.
They are not recognised as the best tyres out there, + they're very expensive to replace.
I think I would rather have a real spare and less luggage space, but that's just 'ol fashioned me......
I've had both a 996 C4 and now a 997 TT. With a great deal of mods (exhaust, coilovers, pedals - etc) the 996 was an excellent DD and mountain driver. I personally enjoyed the basic elegance of the interior. However - out of the box, the 997 TT can't be beat. As a DD you leave it in normal mode and its soft and relatively tame. But when you drop it into Sport Mode, remapping the throttle and PASM enhanced, the car comes alive and the true colors of the 997 TT start to show. In Sport + hold on.
Real enthusiasts throw out RFT's usually within the first week of ownership so I don't view that as an issue. I don't see people however removing the sport muffler and welding in a spare tire tub in the trunk though. I want to clarify that I don't agree with all BMW's decisions(removing oil dipstick on '06+ models as an example).
That's odd, removing the dead weight of a spare tire used to be one of the hallmarks of a true sports car enthusiast. FWIW, I drive 60k miles/year and haven't needed a spare in 20 years.
Could a blowout happen? Yep. Do I worry about it? Nope, I got one of those lightweight cans and a cell phone.
Same here. I've owned several cars that came with regular tires and no spare. Ok two. A z06 corvette and BMW M5. And a few that had RF that I replaced with conventional tires. I have AAA premier and a cell phone.
If we think repair/maintenance costs are high for our 996's, wait until the 991s are off warranty. I think they will be a financial nightmare. Especially the cabriolet and targas.
I prefer the 997.2 over the 996, but don't think the price differential is worth it.
All air-cooled Porsches of any ilk will remain sought after and collectible as classic cars, whether or not they offer the best driving experience.
