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YOUR RESEARCHNew to me 996 with coolant intermix issue
Reported or suspected cause
still
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Reported cause · Original poster
Though minor and only on cylinder 5, that issue is still to be dealt with.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Obviously not, for some reason I checked the chain from the crank to the IMS shaft length but neglected to do the same on the two long cam chains.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Checked the oil filter for sparkles and found none.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I also hooked up my Durametric diagnostic cable and checked various functions and readings.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
After each piston install the circlip installation is checked with a bore scope and mirrors to verify that the clips have seated.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
In this scenario things worked out in a best possible way, since the oil pump housing/ front console were just replaced, and the problem was solved.
Hello there, I just acquired a 99 996 Cabriolet with a oil in the coolant and oil intermix issue. PO had replaced the oil cooler hoping that it would cure the issue but sadly it did not. Suspect a cracked head and wondered what other things should be looked at with the engine out. It has had the IMS bearing replaced and a new clutch installed. The car has about 60,000 miles on it.
Based on my experience the issue of coolant hoses is overblown. If you check my posts I had extensive intermix in 2008. Not sure how long it was until I found it. Replaced the oil and coolant in Sept/Oct and the intermix came back. Parked it until April of 2009, then dropped the engine to fix a cracked head. I did flush the cooling system, mostly by running and changing distilled water through the system several times. I did have theradiators flushed and drew some rags through the ridged tubes when the engine was out. There were still traces of oil for sometime in the coolant but I changed it yearly and within a couple of years it was gone. It has now been about 10 years and 50,000 miles.i think I have replaced one or two hoses in that time, the others have worked fine but are definitely showing their almost 20 years of age.
So I have always been curious about the damage to the hoses and who has had an intermix and experienced such problems? By the way, there are a lot of hoses in these cars and it will cost hundreds of dollars to buy new ones.
Also, the first thing I would check is for a crack on the #1 cylinder, inner exhaust valve spring seat, you might be able to see it by removing the spark plug tube. If not remove the cam covers, cams, lifters and lifter block and take a look. If you want some help/advice, pictures, etc. let me know.
i also have a new, never installed 1-3 cylinder head that I need to sell one of these days.
Read this
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...tra-nasty.html
a clever guy discovered a mix of Shout laundry stain remover and very hot water works well to break up the nasty mix. I tried it also and it works, (for the hoses and tubes) along with a combination of the mechanical methods described by Doug.
I took the radiators to a rad repair shop in downtown Asheville, they flushed and pressure tested them for me.
I don’t know of anything that cleans out the oil cooler, due to its unique design and the fact that both oil and coolant enter it. Just replace it.
BTW, cleaning up this intermix is the worst part of the project by far. Everything else is easy by comparison.
Oil in the coolant typically indicates a cracked head, Coolant in the oil typically indicates a bad AOS. if you are comfortable starting the car, check the AOS function using a manometer and a modified oil filler cap. I can lend you them if you wish.
Hi, Thanks for the offer. The car does run and I believe that the AOS has been replaced... However I may take you on testing the AOS just to be sure.I'm in Hendersonville and a member of the Asheville Porsche Club.
Carl v S
not to add more variables to the mix, but isn't intermix also a sign of engine porosity which can only be solved with a new case/block. I thought early m96 engines where prone to this.
I love speed yellow Porsches. Hard to find in the 996 series. Lowpue's is one of the best examples on this forum. But I really like yours! This is a 99 model, huh? Oh my, I hope Jake Raby sees this thread, he's a fanatic about the 99 being the holy grail and don't fail like other 996 cars (and a bit of a jerk about it), but IMHO, these '99 cars can crack heads like all 996 cars cracking especially in cold climates. I wouldn't let the shop tell you it's a head gasket, even Raby will tell you that these gaskets never fail, but it's the heads that go bad. Lots of people on this forum send their heads to Hoffman Automotive Machine in Georgia. Apparently, the man is the best at repairing Porsche heads. Maybe he can examine my head! hahahaha
Now that is funny and you wont find any argument from me...
And thanks for the kind words about my 996. I also have a perfect speed yellow 993 Aero. I will share that in the future on another thread when appropriate since I don't want to hijack this thread.
As far as the yellow Cab...love it and enjoy it once sorted out. Its pretty unique.
Beautiful car, had the same wheels on my silver 99� cab, until i bent two. Let me know if you would like some extras at a nice price. OZ does not make the barrels any longer.
Thanks for your input and information l I have already called Hoffman and as soon as I get a chance to tear into the engine the plan is to send the heads to him for a thorough evaluation.
When beginning to disasemble the engine removed from my 99 911 I discovered these metal "Worms" trying to crawl through the screen of the oil pump pickup! I suspect that they are remnants from the rear main seal that was replaced when a shop installed a IMS bearing and new clutch assembly!
Definitely magnetic, not aluminum. Wire wound steel, something that would have been a part of an oil seal. I suspect that when the rear main seal was pried out that the spring remained in the case and was mangled by the rotating crank shaft!
Wow! Hard to believe that whoever removed that seal didn't realize that there was supposed to be a spring in it (they obviously came away with only a piece of plastic/rubber on their pick). Maybe the spring fell into the case/onto the shaft, prior to removing the seal? That would most likely cause the seal to leak... Maybe the seal was pushed in to far upon initial install? Lots of questions, and I suspect many more to come. Good luck with the tear-down and subsequent build
Today went well. I was able to borrow the cam holding tools from a fellow PCA club member and rennlist poster and was able to remove the camshafts, lifter towers and
cylinder heads
. I found what I think is the source of my intermix problem.
Hard to believe that a small crack can cause such a big headache!
It's hard for me to believe that such a small crack can cause such a big headache!
This picture is from the number three cylinder.The crack can be felt when dragging my finger nail across it. Based on other posts I was expecting to find it on cylinder number six.
Congrats! Check with Len Hoffman. He should be able to fix this and make sure you send BOTH heads (in case there are other cracks) because you don't want to do it twice.
Thats the easy one to fix as per Len Hoffman($450) that goes from spark plug hole to welch plug. The hard one ($750) goes from spark plug hole to exhaust valve guide..
I have discovered where some of the damage caused by the errant rear main seal tension spring occurred ...
Oil pump housing
Oil pump gear
Crankshaft main bearing thrust washer
I have been reading and following your "Blown Engine" post. Most excellent, thanks for sharing your journey. I have learned quite a bit from your post, knowledge that all come in handy when I start to reassemble my engine.
Good job disassembling the engine. Good that those bits should be caught by the oil filter. Imagine if those bits got suck into the oil gallery if the filter bypass valve fails...
You're Rockin' it! The bores you showed on the one bank all look good. Is the other side clean (no scoring) as well? Are you planning on doing anything to them? Obviously, new timing/cam chains etc. What about the scoring on the face of the water pump? Can anything be done for that? Looks like that intermix could have been a blessing in a way...
Just received an email from Len Hoffman. I had shipped him both heads and only the one had a crack. He is going to weld/repair the crack and service both heads.
Yes, plan on replacing the wear items. The scoring was on the main oil pump housing. All the cylinders look great except for number five. Light scoring and marks on piston as well.
Well... it did cross my mind... briefly!
I’m looking for a good used oil pump housing and assembly. New ones are in the $400-600 range and my thought process is that unless something similar happened to another pump I should be good. As it were the engine had good oil pressure with the existing pump!
Input encouraged.
Hi,
im beginning to put a parts list together and looking for suggestions for vendors with good prices AND service.
in the past I’ve used new parts . Com either directly or via eBay..., My local dealer and ECS tuning.
I just ran across
https://www.oemexoticauto.com/oem-pa...mp-99610701262
the price looks terrific! Has anyone used them?
You should be able to find a used front console/oil pump in perfect shape easily. There are many parts available and the Boxster console/oil pump is also compatible.Although there are many different part numbers for the earlyier ones, they have all been superceeded to one part number. Just be sure to inspect it carefully and also get the matching "cover" that goes with the particular version.
Though minor and only on cylinder 5, that issue is still to be dealt with. I�ve looked into Nickies Hartech, steel liners and finally having US Chrome hone and re plate with Nikasil. The last option is intriguing and also one of the lower cost options. If this were a �forever� car I�d go with oversized Nickies.
Has any one out there used US Chrome?
In Wisconsin, correct?
Their primary* clientele are 928 owners. I sent a 944 S2 block to them and had it bored and replated. Sorry to say - I have not completed the rebuild on that engine and therefore it's not been tested. The service was good, the appearance seems good. Can't fault or praise them without a proper test.
* subcontracted?
The 2001 3.4 cases will be fine on the 99 3.4 internals. But check the cylinders carefully with a "bore gauge" to see how "round" they are, they can go oval pretty badly. If they are out-of-round check with Hartech/Alpine to see what they charge to re-round and install support rings.
We use Millennium, however we have our own standards for finishing and extensive QA program in place for any cylinder or block that is plated by Millennium for us.
For the blocks, they are pressure tested before and after sleeving or direct plating and are measured for ovality/taper as well as RpK, RvK, and Rk.
We stock many blocks available on exchange including some with direct plating in stock bore sizes, where cylinder cracking is not such a large issue, however that's bascially for Boxsters and base model Caymans. Too many cylinder issues with the other blocks to risk direct plating or even considering overbores.
Inventory fluctuates daily. We have 3.4 blocks in stock bore sizes with Nickies available, however I'm not sure if all our oversize blocks are spoken for as I am not in the office today and can't put my hands on them. Best to give the office a call to verify at [phone removed].
So to make sure I understand... If I ordered a set of 3.4 cases they could be shipped out shortly after being paid for. Correct? And you would or would not need my engine cases as a core?
Thank you Charles,
Carl
Yes, we theoretically could ship the block immediately. We would have to charge a core charge if we do not receive your block first, which usually most customers would prefer not to have to pay, so they typically send us their case first so we can evaluate it to ensure there is no damage that would prevent us from reselling it.
Nice rainy day to get a little work accomplished.
Cleaned parts and installed new main bearings and laid the crankshaft in place. Measured CS end play. Waiting for the rest of the rod bearings to arrive. Ordered 6 rod bearings forgetting that 6 means 6 half shells not 6 pairs...
Crankshaft polished and cleaned.
Main bearing housing and oilers cleaned. Waiting for the new main bearing shells and thrust washers to be installed.
Crankshaft carrier assembled.
Crankshaft endplay checked and measures .005�
The prior owner of this car called me.. I told him exactly what was wrong with it, but he bailed on it.
The debris that took out the oil pump is the remnants of the internal wire lock from the stock IMS Bearing. That material is super hard, and someone didn't pay attention when performing the IMSR procedure.When removing a dual row IMSB you must account for all the pieces of debris from the wire lock.
When fitting the replacement front console, measure the ID of the case, and OD of the console, to makes sure you don't experience an interference fit. This is common when swapping consoles, especially on early 3.4s.
Thanks for your input. This metal debris is not a solid wire material but rather a tightly wound coil made of spring steel. It is magnetic. Much like that found behind the lip of an oil seal to keep tension on the seal. Is the wire lock that you refer to not a solid wire? I agree that someone did not pay attention. I found missing bolts, almost no oil in the power steering pump, reused used crush washers (very crushed;-) crushed A/C suction pipe etc, etc.
When the wire lock breaks, it often is dragged sideways out of the housing bore, giving it an odd look. This wire lock is super hard material, and it can do a lot of damage, just like this one has. It's usually small enough to pass through the oil pickup screen, and then goes straight into the pump. Sometimes it will pass through the screen as a more straight piece, then get balled up by the oil pump, which is what I suspect happened here. I have seen an installer leave a 1" long section of this wire lock in the engine, and it did the exact same thing as what you've experienced.
The tension spring from behind a seal isn't that hard, the oil pump will usually eat those for breakfast, and just keep on chugging.
I think the previous owner told me who was working on the car before the failure occurred. Let me see if I can find that.
[QUOTE=Flat6 Innovations;15956812]When the wire lock breaks, it often is dragged sideways out of the housing bore, giving it an odd look. This wire lock is super hard material, and it can do a lot of damage, just like this one has. It's usually small enough to pass through the oil pickup screen, and then goes straight into the pump. Sometimes it will pass through the screen as a more straight piece, then get balled up by the oil pump, which is what I suspect happened here. I have seen an installer leave a 1" long section of this wire lock in the engine, and it did the exact same thing as what you've experienced.
The tension spring from behind a seal isn't that hard, the oil pump will usually eat those for breakfast, and just keep on chugging.
Here is a closeup of the the coiled metal spring parts. These pieces were stuck in the oil pickup screen. A few made it past and caused some scoring to the oil pump canister and gears. No other damage was found.
Main seal oil seal tension spring.?.
I am not certain but I suspect the original 1999 rear main seal would have had a tension spring applying pressure to the sealing lip. Newer seals do not.
This is one reason why some folks elect not to replace an IMSB. It�s possible that more damage could occur compared to just leaving it alone, especially on a dual row car, and especially if a mechanic has limited experience and expertise with these cars.
True.
At the same time last year we had a super experienced tech who had performed dozens of IMSR jobs make this same mistake. He (of course!) was a Porsche Master Tech also.
Within a few hundred miles of the IMSR procedure the car came back to the shop for a low oil pressure warning. Pulled the sump plate, and found a chunk of the wire lock in the screen, then pulled the oil pump cover, and found the rest of it. In this scenario things worked out in a best possible way, since the oil pump housing/ front console were just replaced, and the problem was solved.
The shop paid for the repair, and not too long after that the "Gold Master Tech" was looking for another job.
Doing nothing at all with the IMS, because you become afraid of the side effects doesn't make sense. The potential down side of that with a near 20 year old bearing (in the case of the dual row cars) is a lot more costly than any other choice that can be made.
Have the procedure carried out by an IMS Solution Certified Installer, and be done with it.
Thanks for the feedback. When I saw the coiled spring trying to worm its way through the oil pump pickup screen I was concerned that pieces may have gotten through and damaged the crankshaft bearings and journals. It turns out that they were OK but the pump oil pump did get scored. I�m looking for a good used pump body (console) and gear set.
The proper term is Porsche Gold Meister Tech. It means they have taken the training in all 10 areas of Porsche repair and passed the extensive written and "hands on tests". The four levels of expertise are Apprentice, Bronze, Silver, and Gold.
I can see this happening when removing a dual row bearing and the wire lock breaking to pieces and a piece falling into the engine. If you can't retrieve it with a magnet, it will be a bad day for everyone involved !!
Exiting day when the security cam showed a box box being delivered yesterday. The problem was it was only one! Marked 1 of 2 freaked out a little and went to UPS and they were able to clarify what had happened. Other head should be here by Saturday.
Len Hoffman had been a pleasure to deal with. Just fabulous to be able to pick up the phone and have a conversation with a (knowledgeable;-) human being on the other end!
Now I have to make the decision as to whether I simply hone the cylinders and put in new rings or have the bores Nikasil plated... Time and Money will tell....
has as anyone out there sent their block to Millennium Technology?
Very nice.
Please expand on this concept of having the bores "honed" (or do you intend to do this?). My understanding is that this is a very specific process due to the silicon content in the matrix.
Before even considering sticking with a lokasil bore, one must break out a bore gauge, and check for both ovality, and taper across the entire bore. Most will find that the cylinders have out of range taper, and bore ovality. If this iis the case, honing is out of the picture, as the parent material is compromised.
Also, note that the service that is advertised by Millennium is a Nikisil plating process for the original cylinders, this is not sleeving. In this case the plating is only as good as the underlying parent material. Its easy to confuse all this stuff if you don�t work with it everyday.
The bore in my 996 are for the most part in very good condition. 60,000 mi. There is a very slight score on cylinder number five. I have read numerous threads where Lokasil manufactured cylinders have been lightly honed or deglazed, some aluminum removed exposing the harder silicon with good success....
I have read and do understand the various differences between Lokasil, Nikasil plating and Nickies. I even looked at (gasp;-) a steel sleeve solution. There is no doubt in my mind that the preferred method would be using the LN Engeneering or Hartech method. Had the bores been in terrible condition I would have been forced into choosing (May still) one of those solutions. Do take the Time and look at some of the posts regarding
Honing Options for Hypereutectic Aluminum Cylinder Bores
https://www.sunnen.com/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=11
You are absolutely correct in that the results are only as good as the condition of the bore before beginning to try and do this. The cost difference between rings and honing ($500) and Nickies ($5000.00) plus is significant.
I will update as sonn as a decision has been made. In the meantime interested in what others have done.
The surface finish is just one part of the process when it comes to judging cylinder condition. It�s the one part that is easy to judge, as usually it can be done with the naked eye. More in-depth evaluations are required, which require skill, a bore gauge, and a set of standards.
If the cylinder is no longer round, the rings will never seal up. They can�t.
If the cylinder is tapered it will it will just kill the new rings, as they work up and down an irregular shaped bore. This exercise kills ring tension, and ring seal.
Bore ovality, and taper are paramount considerations when making this decision. You have to find this potential problem, else it will find you. If it finds you the 5k difference in expenditure now, can double later. Not to mention the differences in the spirit of the engine builder after having to do the exercise again.
In short, measure for bore taper and ovality. Most of the biggest differences in ovality exist at the mid- bore point. I measure ovality at 3 different positions of the cylinder, in every axis. Record the findings with a bore gauge and share them here.
Jake your input is invaluable and I do appreciate it! I�m going to take a small break from working on the engine, waiting for parts etc. and throw in a small road trip as well. When I return I�ll have some more information to add to the mix and possibly measurements as well. I understand that bore taper and ovality are a factor in the success or not of this project. Have long term (50,000 miles or more) inspections been performed on Nickies? If so what is the result. Still round and true? Thanks to all for your insight knowledge.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Alusil-Blocks
The Alusil process is not unique to Porsche but is used my many other manufacturers including Audi, VW, Mercedes just to name a few European brands and also quite a few of the Japanese makes as well. In some cases using a different name and their own proprietary process.
A GOOD dirt track machine shop that does Outlaw motors for their bread and
butter should be able to profile the bores for you for a reasonable cost..
They have it together, they build engines that make over 1000 HP normally aspirated at 11K rpms..
Assembling one that lasts is every bit as technically difficult/detail oriented as our fancy German engines..
Don't overlook the high end race bike shops either,, many of the issues in the 996 are mirrored
in the bike world.. My KTM 950 for a stock rebuild (2 cylinders) approaches about 1/2 the cost of a standard 996 rebuild.
I'm not saying hand either of them the rebuild, just saying some of their shop services may
be available to you if you dont have many alternatives. And its cheaper than some of the
tools required to do it well.
Porsche used Alusil cylinders with great success on the aircooled 911 with the 2.7 and 3.0, but it was also used on watercooled blocks in the 944 and 928, just for reference. Porsche was the first, and only company, to use the Lokasil process (there are actually three versions of it) and no auto maker has used it since, where Alusil is still used by most European auto makers. The Japanese have their own versions and do not use KS Alusil from what I have read in SAE whitepapers on the topic, but they are all similar in that they are hypereutectic with varying alloying additives in there to give specific properties to the blocks.
We hardly ever see any blocks back for re-dos or even refreshes. We had one with roughly 50k miles that came to us after having suffered failed injectors. The rings were shot, but all we did was clean up the block and deglaze it along with new rings. Bores had less than .002" ovality and taper and were within Porsche's wear limits. Having done thousands of blocks over the last 15 years or so, the fact that we don't have a large sample size to answer your question should be the answer you are looking for.
Part of the reason for taking a break was to try and meet up with a fellow from the Boston area who had a set of 996 case halves from a 2001 911 which had been serviced by Millennium Technologies for honing and Nikasil planting along with a set of new JE pistons. It had been a frustrating couple of weeks with intermittent communication from his end but ultimately we met half way between Hendersonville and Boston, in a Holiday Inn parking lot east of Harrisburg, PA. Yes it would have been easier to ship these cases but he also had a set of Porsche wheels that I wanted to purchase.
I think they�ll look great on my speed yellow cabriolet.
My dear, patient wife accompanied me on this journey and we added a few days to meander through Maryland and PA. Staying in old Inns and sampling some nice two lane roads along the way. The Cayenne diesel performed great and was able to swallow up all the bits and pieces, hidden behind the luggage, that I purchased!
So no honing, I�ll be selling the original cases 3.4 and pistons shortly. Anxious to get back home and continue the rebuild.
Bill I�d be happy too as long as no one shares this link with my wife..😉
I have started a spread sheet to keep track of the cost of its and pieces, machine shop service etc. Once I get some prices entered I�ll post them and keep it updated.
Trust me, I bought my roller without telling my wife until it arrived...It did not go over very well until I actually got a motor in and took her for a drive. I promise!!
Today I took a look at the �new� cases and spent a part of the day cleaning parts and ordering things like timing chains, guide rails and chain pads. The cylinder bores look great. These case halves have been honed and Nikasil plated by Millennium Technologies and I�ll be assembling them with a a set of New JE Pistons and rings.
I�m hoping that by the end of next week I�ll be able to assemble the crankcase halves. Any �gotchas� or pointers are appreciated!
Great stuff!
I've been trying to identify the car in the first shot. I want to say; Supra. Could be way off - but it looks Japanese and also looks to have a conspicuous intercooler (or is that a clever A/C condenser?) It's not the SUV, is it?
Love the packaging. That's a lot like our trips.
The case-half looks real nice. Glad I tagged this thread a while ago.
My wife and others swore that we�d never get the wheels and engine crates to fit. I told them worst case scenario I�d have to put her on a Gray Hound... 😉
Hartech also do a special honing solution to re round cylinders and fit a strengthening ring at the top of the cylinder , I had it done to my cylinders on my rebuild , it obviously depends on a measurement and qualification process with Hartech , weather your cylinders are within a certain range to be corrected but worth looking into ?
I looked at Hartech and wish that they had a US operation. I�d be hesitant to ship my cases to England... or Canada for that matter. The cases that ill be using have been serviced by Millennium Technologies and Nikasil plated. I could have sent my engine cases there but would have spent about $500 more than the ones I purchases from a person in Mass. that abandoned his 996 and sold it as a roller a couple of years ago and just decided to sell the cases and pistons along with a set of wheels that he�d been hanging on to...
Thanks John! Now I must wait for the timing chains and rails to arrive before I can proceed any further. Should be here later this week. Then I can set the crankshaft and carrier into the LH case half and start thinking about assembling the two halves. That will be a big step!
I didn�t like it then and still don�t like it! Decided to upgrade my torque wrench with a digital one that has an angle torque gauge built in. Watched a few YouTube videos and now being an informed shopper went to Harbor Freight and purchased one using a 25% off coupon.
I�ll share my results soon. If you�re not familiar with angle torque there are videos online explains why manufacturers have all gone to this new (in the last twenty years or so:-) method of tightening fasteners.
The issue I ran into on my recent job is some of the fasteners on the 996 are down around the 5-6NM range, which is more like 3 ft lbs.
I bit the bullet and bought the AC Delco 1.11 – 22.12 ft-lbs. one to fill in the gap below what my current torque wrenches supported. The AC Delco appears to be the snap-on wrench, but I'm guessing much cheaper.
In the past I've been pretty good at hand tightening bolts and nuts, but I've read too many stories on here of you guys having to deal with messes caused by a PO over tightening a fastener, so I'm not going to be "that guy".
I have many torque wrenches covering a number of ranges and different applications. I used to buy into the electronic ones but after a couple of them flat out failed, I stop buying the electronic "too fragile" for real environment wrenches. I still have one electronic one but that gets used almost never now. The rest are all mechanical clickers.
I have four that I use for really precision work, ranging from a few lb.ft to 250 lbft. Then I have one permanently set at 75 lbs for tires. And one more that goes up to 600 lb-ft for that pesky CV shaft nut.
I too poses a range of analog torque wrenches 1/4� 3/8� and /1/2� drive. This was purchased primarily to deal with the angle torque settings that Porsche specifies on the con rod , crankshaft carrier and cylinder head bolts..
I took the RH case half to a laser welder to repair a stripped and butchered hole in one of the �new� case halves. If it weren�t for the already electric negated hole I would have used a helicopter. The whole is a small 6mm thread size on the chain case where the cylinder head and block mate. Thought about using JB weld..... 😳 as the torque value is less than 10 lbs./ft.
Oh well, we will all sleep better tonight 😉
Well it certainly made me laugh, I hope others get a chuckle out of it as well.
ok I�ll try this again. If it weren�t for the elongated 6mm hole I would have used a Helicoil insert.
If I can re-thread the hole 1mm larger,, I'm mostly happy,, unless the metal I'm going in to just isn't obviously thick enough
The germans seem to like the odd numbers and the japanese cars the even ones.. I'm forever buying new 12 and 13 mm wrenches..
Threads are measured differently than the bolt head. 12mm and 13mm wrenches typically work on M8 fasteners. Most fasteners are even; i.e. M6, M8, M10, M12, M14, etc. (M5 is an exception).
Agree with the wrench sizes. Until I started working on Audis, I never had need for 16mm or 18mm wrenches.
Today�s little project went well. The welder did a terrific job! To call him just a welder does not do him justice, he micro welds and repair molding dies etc. Filer Micro Welding.
www.filermicrowelding.com
Once the case half was home it was up to me not to mess things up. I used the old head gasket to mark the area to be center punched, drilled and tapped.
Back from the welder.
Old head gasket used to position placement of new hole
Drilled and tapped to 6mm.
Checking the fit.
This will work.
We tried to drive the 78 91SC to the Appalachian adventure last year and barely made it around the block and back into our driveway before getting home and unpacking and getting into another car. It was not quite ready for prime time. Im afraid that a repeat performance would not be pleasantly received by my very patient spouse. That being said... we'll see!
Last night when I opened the box of JE pistons I discovered that here were no rings, pins or clips! Just the pistons...So today I ordered new rings form Total Seal to go with the new JE pistons that came with the Nikasil plated cases. along with wrist pins and clips from JE ($$$) I read Ahsai�s Post were he mentions using a fish scale to measure piston ring drag in the rebuild that he did. Search �blown engine� in the 996 forum. It made me curious and I googled the process and learned quite a bit here...
http://blog.wiseco.com/standard-ring-tension-is-a-myth
Ahsai, if your reading this, what pull ( lbs. ) were you after and how would you change the reading if you were not happy with what you had?
When I disassembled the oil and scavenge pumps I found more evidence of the damage caused by the RMS tension spring that was left in the engine by the last mechanic....
Scoring evident on housing and the pump impeller face. If you look carefully at the impeller you’ll see the imprint that the coil spring left as it was forced between the impeller and outer ring.
https://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/eb10445.htm
learn about the different pump types here.
Roger at Retro Automotive Products http://
www.retroautomotiveproducts.com/
was kind enough to take the time and disassemble the used pumps he had to make sure that what he was shipping to me was in good shape.
Would the scoring have affected the scavenging? We’ll never know... peace of mind comes at a price.
Has anybody tried sending the pumps to a place like KSE for
rebuild? they do dry sump pump reman as a mainstay..
Track cars eat them with shrapnel fairly often on their bad days..
Thanks Bill,
They are all keepers until sold! Seriously, ha, my wife says that I have an automotive attention span of about two years...
So far she’s been the only “keeper” in my life.
Today the used oil pump housing I ordered on eBay arrived and though not perfect, it is in better shape than mine. I’m going to go with it. They steel pump “gears” are also in better shape than what was removed from the original pump.
Bottom housing is from my pump.
Nice thread! Keep it up - there's nothing more frustrating than a great thread that goes dead before the project is finished! Good luck with the rest of the build
I really need ro check my notes but from memory it was around 15lb. All of my rings were within spec so I didn't need to do anything to them. With today's high precision manufacturing, the rings should be quite consistent. You may want to try a new set if you find then out-of-spec.
My rings are not from Total Seal though. I think AWDGuy used Total Seal on his 4.0 build but he has sold the car since and probably not active on Rennlist anymore.
Yesterday the Total Seal rings, JE wrist pins and clips and a couple of gaskets arrived. This meant that today I could spend the afternoon gapping rings for pistons 1-3 and preparing to lay the crankshaft carrier in the LH hand crank case. Tomorrow�s work will be setting the carrier and gapping pistons 4-6. Many thanks to fellow club member Peter who lent me his Summit Racing ring filer and ring expander. Even so to speed things up I carefully used a Dremel tool to get close on the very hard top compression rings and then finishing up with the hand grinder.
Tedious work, filing ring end gaps.
Checking the gap.
Selling
a set of used engine cases removed from a 1999 Porsche 911 with 62,000 miles on it. It is a 996 with a 3.4 liter engine. The engine was removed to repair a cracked cylinder head. Oil mixing with the coolant. The car ran great, no signs of overheating and no red check engine lights were on. When I pulled the heads I noticed ever so slight signs of bore scoring on the number two cylinder. Project took a different turn.
These would be a great candidate to sleeve either with steel or preferably Nikies from LN Engeneering. Great for someone who wants to send cases to be plated but does not relish the idea of delaying the project waiting for the cases to be shipped back. Perhaps they could also be honed and reassembled as is... There are posts where this has been done. Google Alusil.
Or build it and Iinstall it in a Boxster!
Cases only $1650.00
The original pistons, wrist pins and rings are available separately for $300.00
I can crate the engine cases into two cases, each crate would weigh 80 lbs. and the size is 12"x22"x23".
I had looked into shipping them via UPS to Mass. and the cost for both would have been just under $200.
I will crate the engine c cases into two crates to cut down on shipping costs and be able to ship visa UPS instead of truck freight.
eBay will bill for one crate and I will send a separate shipping invoice for the second crate.
Local pick up in Hendersonville, NC also a possibility.
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1154358
Today went well. Installed rings on three pistons and attached them to the connecting rods. The JE clips were a real bear. Much stiffer than the OE clips but managed after making an improvised tool. Cut a notch in an old flat bladed screw driver. I tried to used a borrowed tool specifically made for this in hopes that the practice would aid me when the time cases to install the other three pistons through the small cylinder access hole. I don�t see how this is going to work... Worry about it tomorrow.
the borrowed ring compressor was a waste of time and almost damaged one of the pistons! Luckily one of the forum member made one out of a 4� PVC drain pipe and since I just happened to have a small segment I thought I�d give it a try. After cutting a diagonal 1/4� slice out of it and using two hose clamps, I must say that it worked great!
Home made ring compressor vs store brand.
Worked like a charm!
Weisco makes a anodized tapered sleeve ring compressor that is machined to perfect fit. They come in most every size imaginable at $35 each. Just set on and push the piston/rings through, it's very nice to work with and keeps from damaging things caused by the universal ring squeezers.
That said, the plastic PCV pipe looks like a good one time inexpensive alternative.
https://stmtuned.com/products/wiseco...57c3e2ffeb7e48
We include a tapered sleeve ring compressor with every set of m96 pistons we sell. Too many broken rings as a result of split-band clamp ring compressors over the years. It's a must when working with modern ringsets.
That's a nice touch to include the taper sleeve with the pistons, as a lot of people still don't know about them, although they have been on the market for many years. They are a pleasure to work with and are mostly "faultless" , but not all engines can utilize the solid taper sleeves, like the GT3/Turbo engines, they still have to use a split band derivative, caution, experience, and finesse are key to assembling these without breaking/damaging things.
Thank you Charles, Ahsai and Porschetech, It�s too late now but would certainly add this tool to my arsenal should there be a next time and that is always a possibility. I�m enjoying working on this engine/car and would consider another roller and building a big bore engine using the 3.8 liter LN Engineering Nickies the next time!
I spent the morning gapping the rings for cylinders 4,5 and 6. Used a machined piece of steel and feeler gauges. Crude perhaps but effective, clearances ran between 009� and 011�.
The measurement were taken parallel to the wrist pins to minimize the effect of piston rock in the bore.
Deck clearance in conjunction with the thickness of the head gasket I should be fine....
Now on to contemplate installing and mating the two case halves. Nervous and excited at the same time...
^^ Are you an experienced engine builder? Wow, impressed by your work here. I�ve rebuilt a few engines in my life, but wouldn�t take it upon myself to do an M96 engine. Seems like everything on this engine is trying to take $1000 chunks out of you if you just accidentally drop a component on the floor, lol, let along make any sort of mistake...
Then again, if you know what you are doing - it doesn�t look too bad.
Well I was anxious to get the case halves together and had prepped the surfaces, cleaned bolts etc. The Loctite 5900 specified in the service manual had been ordered and arrived a few days ago. Fresh tube. I cut the tip and prepared to lay down a bead as outlined in the service manual, boy did I have to push hard... that should have been a sign. It finally came out but was not as tacky / sticky as It recall silicone sealant to be. Oh well damn the torpedoes, on she went, cases lined up and tapped home. I inserted the 24 screws and began to snug them down in the correct sequence. Oh, oh... when I came around to tighten to the final 10 lbs.ft of torque I had one fastener that would not tighten. Yikes. It was in a location where I could have just installed a longer screw and secured it with a nut.... But I decided to take the case off and drill and helicoil the offending thread hole. I think it�s a good thing because the seal at just did not look right. I called a couple of parts houses but no one seems to stock it. Or local Porsche dealer, Harmony Motors, will have a tube for me tomorrow.
Stay tuned.
If your Anxious in any way working on this level of a motor,,, put the tools down and do something else,,
I've seen sooo many engines destroyed because someone got in a hurry and cut a corner..
You are chasing all the threads before assembly right?
yes threads chases and cleaned prior to assembly. This engine case shows signs of being taken apart once before and the PO was not as gentle as he/she could have been. See broken bolt repair in previous post.
Thanks!
I feel the pain, I've inherited seriously neglected race cars.. some of stuff I've found especially electrical is mind blowing.
Especially when someone breaks their car on saturday and insists they can still race sunday..
A little off topic but last Thursday I accompanied my friend Kim down to check the progress of his top end rebuild (82 Porsche 911 SC) at TSR Machine works just outside of Atlanta.
Todd at TSR was kind enough to let us watch him set the cam timing. Boy did I learn a lot. We were there for a couple of hours.
Kim�s 911 engine ready for cam timing
Mechanical chain tensioner.
Setting the cam timing
Rh Bank cam timing adjustment.
Our local Porsche dealer delivered as promised and on Sunday the engine case halves were sealed and torqued. Ready for the next phases. Install pistons on cylinders 4,5 and 6. The aluminum bar screwed to the case is to help reference how deep the special tool is when installing wrist pins and clips.
Engine case halves sealed and torqued.
Well, cases assembled it was time to move forward and install pistons 4-6. I have read the manual and forums also watched the YouTube videos so I knew what lay ahead. My friend Coopduc a fellow 996 owner leant me his eBay wrist pin installation tool kit. I was a prepared as I�d ever be. Shock number one was that the circlip installation tool would not fit through the hole in my new to me block. I rechecked it in the old block that I still have and it slid right in! The only thing i could think of is that when the bores were Nikasil plated some of the plating material filled the access holes... I miked the old block and the new one and yes indeed it was about ten thousands smaller than the tool! I was not about to tear it all apart and have the holes machined unless....
new block hole .957� tool .967� original block ..977!
I had read in one of the forums that someone had improvised and cut up a metal broom stick and another person used 1/2 electric conduit. Measurement in hand I went to Home Depot and yes, the conduit should work. Conduit .922�
i purchased the conduit, cut it to length and ground out the inside to make the circlip fit. New problem, the wristpin installation tool which pushes the circlip into the piston was to large a diameter to fit into my new �tool�. I scrounged around in my tool box and found a BS socket that just fit inside the conduit and would push on the circlip. Time for a photo.
�Tool with Extension and socket along with my trust British knock off hammer that came with a 63 XKE purchased when I was in college. A LONG time ago.
In a previous post I mentioned the improvised circlip installation tool and over the weekend I had lots of practice... The �trick� to installing the pins and clips on the right bank, cylinders 4,5 and six is to turn the block so that the rod small ends are pointing down. Gravity will then center the rods allowing you to slide the pins in and install clips. Well, after installing number four I thought to myself that this is not so bad after all. On to piston five. In goes the pin and the clip. No problem, except that when I try to turn the unlined over there is resistance in one spot. I turn the block over and suspect that the timing chain has simply dropped down in the case and is bunched up, which it had. Pulled the chain up and motor turned over. Note that the RH bank is facing down and cylinders 4,5,6 are pointing down. Piston five has moved... I now install piston six, the last one. After each piston install the circlip installation is checked with a bore scope and mirrors to verify that the clips have seated. Rotate the engine so that the Rh bank is now facing up and turn the engine over with a ratchet. Much to my my horror and dismay piston number five does NOT move!!! Lots of bad words and a real sunken feeling as you can imagine.
what to do?!? Split cases and start over?
Piston five can be driven/tapped out with a long screw driver from the bottom of the engine and then prepped for a reinstall. Number six is another story completely! To my knowledge it is not accessible from behind. I carefully removed the circlip, pulled the wristpin out with a expanding slide hammer attachment that just fit inside the wrist pin and then rotated the engine enough to lower the rod. Put the pin back into the piston and then rotated the engine so that now the connecting rod pushed on the wrist pin and moves the piston enough to be able to grasp the top and extract it. I was certain that the rods were aligned properly with the piston pin holes before installing the wrist pins. So what went wrong? Lesson learned the block must be completely and perfectly horizontal or the rod will drift out of alignment when trying to install the pin. Once the pin is in the piston hole you cannot see the connecting rod small end bushing. I used a small level for the reinstall and that made all the difference.
I post this embarrassing and disheartening setback so that perhaps I can prevent someone else from experiencing this sad state of disappointment.
Yep. Been there, done that. I instruct this in my classes, and make sure that everyone uses the bore scope to ensure the connecting rod is coupled to the piston via the piston pin, before the circlip is installed.
We put out extra emphasis on this for my engine rebuild video as well. It�s a required step of assembly.
This normally happens if you are following the factory assembly procedure, which allows the connecting rod to easily move left, or right, and then the piston pin passes by the connecting rod. You install the pin, but you miss the connecting rod. The bigger the bore size, the easier this can happen.
Its these points of assembly that can be huge setbacks.
With th being an engine builder, you never learn from successes, only failures. You�ll remain a zero, until success finally occurs, and makes you a hero. There�s no in- between, and you learn really quickly why the �silver bullets� we can give during periods of instruction, or the new video can be so beneficial.
i commend you for sharing this issue, and being honest about what you experienced. Most people don�t tell these types of things, and it gives the effect that everything is unicorns and rainbows to those that may consider doing something similar.
You can remove piston 5, and start over. Rotate the crank and the connecting rod should push that piston back out of the bore. If this doesn�t happen, I have another trick.
After making a mistake, step away. Stop! Come back with a clear head, and start over.
Like I say all the time, do it right the first time, else you get to do it again.
Carlvs
I had the editor whip this up from my M9X Rebuild Video.
It will show you a little about how to check the engagement of the pin into the piston, as well as the connecting rod. It will give you, and others a good idea of the attention to detail, and coverage of this video :-)
You Tube
Not trying to add insult to injury, but before you started assembling the engine, did you double check that all the new replacement parts were correct for this engine? I'll be the first to admit, I'm no engine building, but if I've learned anything about Porsche from doing small DIY jobs over the years, they can get it wrong. I was just on the phone with them this week and they admitted to a mistake with the part that was corrected in a TSB but not in the ordering system. Sorry for your pain. Again, I'm no expert, but it seems like you'll have to find out exactly what is causing the inference with #5. Looks like Jake Raby is offering some advice and so I'd listen to him.
I'm just the noisy guy yelling from the stands.
Jake,
Thank you so much for posting the video. Your input and feedback is appreciated!
I did check the con rod position with a borescope and could clearly see the rod small end bushing lining up with the opening in the piston. Because my block was not completely level the rod shifted ever so slightly in the time it took to slide the wrist pin on to the insertion tool and then install it into the piston. I now put a level on the block to make sure that the rod ( acting like a pendulum ) does not shift. I also wait a few minutes and recheck the position to make SURE that is has not shifted.
It sure is a challenging motor to work on, yet very satisfying at the same time. Can�t wait to hear it run.. ha ha.
Nutty Professor,
Obviously not, for some reason I checked the chain from the crank to the IMS shaft length but neglected to do the same on the two long cam chains. Double checked the parts numbers and should have been suspicious when I saw the condition of the boxes that the chains were in. They looked as if they had traveled around the world, twice!
Hi De Jeeper,
Two different issues.
1. When installing piston pin in number five cylinder I missed the hole in the small end bushing of the connection rod. Problem resolved by removing pistons five and six and starting over. THAT issue fixed and video posted by FlatSix showing what to avoid.
2. New Chain for camshafts too short. Mis-marked packages from supplier. Problem not yet resolved but will hopefully corrected this weekend.Please stay posted!
Glad you got the right parts installed. Seems like I remember someone here on Rennlist opening up the timing chains and installing individual links in order to achieve the proper length to avoid having to take the engine apart again. Unfortunately, once the engine was installed and tested, the chains snapped and took out the engine. Ouch!
I was sorely tempted to cut the too short chains and feed in the correct length ones and connect them with master links. I searched high and low and did manage to find some that were the correct pitch etc. But after speaking with Jake and a few friends I ended up taking the crankcases apart and installing the continuous chains. The process took an additional week. But by Saturday i was back on track.... Or so I thought...
On Sunday I was ready to install pistons 4,5 and six. Those are the pistons on the right bank, where the pistons are lowered into the bore, one by one and the wrist pins instead along with the clip through a small hole in the cylinders. Starting with number six, farthest from the access hole and ending up with number four. Wrist pin six went in like a charm along with the clip. Motor turned over before and after circlip installation to make sure that the piston actually connected with the rod. I learned that lesson the hard way. Number five wrist pin in and then turn the engine over a few revolutions before attempting the circlip installation. All went well until I verified the clip install and could not see it!!! Bad language followed....
I spent a good half hour trying to locate the clip with a magnet and borescope to no avail. I rotated the engine many times and were I physically able to I would have picked the whole mess up and shaken it!
This means that the crancase will have to come apart, again... I prepared myself mentally and started to remove some of the 6mm case screws and just happened to look below the engine and there it lay on the ground!! Ah, what a relief. Hours saved. Try this again and be in the moment, this time I had success. The last piston pin and clip went in without drama.
This is a BIG step, for now I can think about cylinder head installation.
Looking at wristpin through the access hole with a mirror.
Wow! Nice save... pretty much exactly why I decided to �pay the piper� and have FSI build my engine. The thought of spending the winter in my usually cold, poorly lit, tightly packed/cluttered (my son�s 944 is in there too) and somewhat dirty garage had me breaking out in cold sweats when thinking about diy�ing it...🤣
Another trick I found was if you can use a rebuild lube on the big end that's got some consistency to it , I used redline rebuild lube, and aswel as putting it on the bearings put it on the side of the rods where they run against the crank, this means when you line up the rod it stays in place better because the rod is not as free and loose and just drops, the lube helps keep it where you position it. I would think if you can line up piston six with the access hole and get the clip out , you can extract the wrist pin and get the piston out giving you access to piston 5 again, good luck with your build I'm sure you will sort it ?
Yes, I did use assembly lube on the rod bearings and also drizzled some onto the rod faces next to the crankshaft. What helped most of all was to put a level on the engine block deck and make sure that it was level and did not drift. That, in my opinion is vital.
late afternoon and early evening I was able to get a little farther...
Cylinder heads going on and angle torqued.
Both heads back on the block
Time to say good night!
Yesterday I had a little time and replaced the very worn and pitted camshaft sliders and installed the cams for the left bank, cylinders 1-3.
Information below provided by Dharn55.
�The thread is 5mm .8 pitch. On a 99 it should be right handed. Sometime in 2000 they changed the threads on the base of the advance mechanism to left handed.�
It turned out that mine had the LH threaded actuators.I fashioned the �tool� from a section of stainless rod purchased from Belmetric. Great source for metric fasteners, fuel line washers etc.
Worn out slider with deep groves on left.
Starting to time camshafts on left bank. Cam timing tools borrowed from friend and fellow Rennlist member Coopduc. Thank you!
This past weekend I drove my 78 911 SC to the Appalachian Adventure in Hiawassee, GA. No wrenching, just a pleasant get together with fifty Porsche�s from about seven states represented. A large Florida contingent was there including this very nice looking 99 Speed Yellow 996.
Formerly owned by Hurley Haywood!
Great weather for a concourse.
In the past couple of days I�ve made significant progress and am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Heads are on, cams timed, valve covers and oil pumps bolted on. Starter motor, alternator and power steering pump bolted on. I still have to hookup the engine electrics and install the intake manifold.
Valve covers and scavenge pumps installed.
Starter motor, knock sensors and oil cooler installed.
Alternator, power steering pump and AOS installed
Yesterday I was finally ready to install the new rear main seal. Followed the lead of a few rennlisters and fashioned my own installation tool made out of abs and pvc plumbing.
Rear main seal going in.
Close up of �tool�
Tricky and slow going setting the proper depth of the seal in the case.
Ready for the next seal installation. Now depth set to 13mm.
Updated tool will have the white part protruding 13mm from the black part. Black part rests on case and white PVC tube pushes the seal in 13mm.
Installed muffler brackets and inspected the starter alternator cable after reading in another post where they ere prone to oxidation and failure. Sure enough mine is in sad shape. Will order from my local dealer tomorrow.
Headers attached and trying to remember and figure out where the various vacuum lines go... memo to self, take LOTS of pictures! LN Engeneering Magnetic drain plug.
Actually taken a couple of days ago while engine still on engine stand.
Good idea to replace that cable and the AOS hoses as they are not impossible but difficult to get to with the engine in the car. I'd also do new injectors as well just for ease of installation - although the parts bill is probably stacking up!!
Yes the $$$ are accumulating and I�ll post a spread sheet when I�m finished with the rebuild. AOS hoses, check, along with some other sketchy water hoses. I had considered and forgotten the injectors... Yes they are 20 years old, but the car ran well and only has 62,000 miles on it. Still replace the injectors?
Injectors are a must. The Bosch injectors are now made in China, so you need to be sure you get them from a reputable source to ensure that you don't get fakes.
We put together a directive as to items that need to be replaced with new engine installation. The only item that we also replace that is not listed is the coolant expansion tank. We've had several fail after putting new engines, so we always replace it.
Thanks for the injector feedback and the pdf file. I will endeavor to follow the startup instructions as closely as possible. Getting closer! Intake gaskets arrived as did the new vacuum reservoir. Engine is all together now and ready to be mated to the transmission. I borrowed a pilot shaft tool from fellow Renlister Coopduc to help align and center the friction disc. It made a big difference in getting the pilot shaft centered and into the bearing on the back of the crank. The clutch had been replaced about twenty thousand miles ago and when I measured the wear it was well within specifications.
Transmission supported by lift and engine on Harbor Freight lift table.
Getting closer....
Worked all day and finally got it all in and hooked up for a �dry run� That�s when the oil is in but you leave the coolant out!
Ran the engine for a few seconds to make sure that it would start and had oil pressure.
This was my concern when purchasing new injectors - I ended up getting them from the USA from partscontainer - they came sealed with individual Bosch holograms that checked out in their parts checking system - if thats anything to go by... Haven't installed them yet they look like a complete PITA to get out and back in... Sigh
well it wasn�t a marathon but I did drive the car for two miles late this afternoon! It starts great and so far no ominous sounds or smells. The only leak so far has been coming from a loose hose clamp. Still trying to get all the air out of the cooling system. I�m running it with water and shout mixture to try and break up some of the sludge in the radiators etc. The plan is to continue doing this with at least a couple of complete drains before changing over to antifreeze. Oil pressure is good.
Use a vacuum lift to fill the system, after you use one once you'll never do anything else..
Also use one of the wetting agents, Redline/Blue Ice/Motul whatever,, they are all the same tech.
Don't expect the engine to run noticeably cooler, their real purpose is to avoid bubbles and cavitation
in the system, which means fewer hot spots in the heads, It also keeps the pump seal lubricated and
helps preserve the rubber hoses in the system.
[QUOTE=pdxmotorhead;16079125]Use a vacuum lift to fill the system, after you use one once you'll never do anything else..
Also use one of the wetting agents, Redline/Blue Ice/Motul whatever,, they are all the same tech
So,
I spent the better part of today drawing out the water and shout mix that I had put into the cooling system yesterday and then put in a fresh batch of the same. One more flush. Used my Schwaben coolant filler tool to fill the system and it went smoothly. Thank you Ahsai for your post on draining the cooling system...
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...pump-tips.html
The car idled slowly and a little rough today....around 640 rpm, but when the AC is turned on it smooths out and the idle speed goes up to 800 rpm which is bout where it should be. Hmm.
I also hooked up my Durametric diagnostic cable and checked various functions and readings. The good news is that there is Zero cam deviation between bank one and two.
I then took it for my daily three mile test drive and though the temperature was to the right of the zero in 180, when I started to head home the warning temp light started to flash. I must have some air in the system and will try and purge it again tomorrow.
So far 4.9 miles have been logged and no discernible leaks!
Back from my short test drive.
oh and I did take the hard top off so that I could enjoy the drive topless!
My 996 cab now has about 50 miles on the rebuild. Very early this morning I drained the shout and water solution out of the cooling system and ran two courses of just plain water through the system to remove the soap suds, before pulling a vacuum and suctioning in the coolant. Seemed to go quite well because on the subsequent mini test drives it did not over heat. This afternoon on a twenty mile plus drive in ambient temperatures in the low nineties the needle stayed at 180 or just slightly about eight. A lot of the time it remained between the 8 and zero. With the AC running.
I started out with a misfire that gradually got better but not completely gone. It was not there when I first started the engine but began the following day. I�m suspecting a fouled spark plug that is trying to burn off excess oil as the rings seat. At least that�s what I�m hoping for.
Parked next to the tow vehicle...
The car is running well, mostly still have slight misfire and Durametric indicated an ignition fault on cylinder five. Ordered a new coil and will replace it along with spark plug when it arrives this week. Meanwhile I�ve been trying to trace a pesky oil leak. Though not gushing it is annoying to have on a rebuilt engine!
Yesterday I spent half a day running the car on a lift looking for the oil leak and suspected the Rh rensionee, tightened nut as tight as I dare. To torque and a wee bit more 😉 checked all the valve cover bolts and cylinder head cam tower bolts, found a couple that were below torque. Looked at my RMS inspection hole that I had drilled into the transmission case. Not there. Gave up and decided to look for the socket that I had dropped while installing the engine. While peering under the intake manifold with a flashlight, mirror and borescope I noticed Oil on the top of the engine and draining down the back.
Hmmmm, i suspected a leaky AOS hose or some such thing. The oil had actually pooled in some of the case pockets. I removed the alternator to get a better look and could see a shiny aluminum case extending up under the starter motor. The only thing to the right of the starter is the oil cooler. Recently replaced by the PO while he was trying to find the intermix problem. I had removed it during the rebuild and flushed it out prior to reassembling it onto the engine case.
Next step was to remove the AC, what a bear, lower the engine and trans for clearance and remove the RH intake manifold.
Searching for oil leak...
Time to get serious.
The third bolt, under the intake manifold, holding the AC in place and I have become good friends.
AC and intake Manifold removed.
Oil cooler removed, time to inspect o rings.
O rings appear to be in good shape and not pinched or out of their grooves...
Time to dig deeper. I removed the orings and looked up the dimensions on the Auto Atlanta website. OMG! Spec callers for 26mm x 3mm and the ones that the �mechanic� that be me... had installed were 26mm x 2.5mm...
Correct size but wrong thickness!
I�m never going to let that guy touch my car again! Well maybe just this once to put this mess back together again.😏
Great stuff! Glad things are going so well.
Stating the obvious: Regarding the misfire, it would be easy to swap coils to other cylinders and see if the fault follows the coil from #5. Same for the plug (just install in a different cylinder than the #5 coil).
Thanks for chiming in Scott, not a bad idea. I thought it would wise to have a spare coil on hand and will wait until I do so. Supposedly all plugs and coils were replaced about a thousand miles ago. Would not be surprised if the plug was fouled due to ring seating etc. May just do a leak down test on the cylinder when I have the plug out to see what the condition of that particular cylinder is.
I was up early and started to put my car back together. New O-rings in and cooler installed. Putting the intake manifold and boots back was more of a struggle and took longer than I thought it would... Came up with a new way to deal with pesky AC bolts, especially the third bolt in back. I wrapped a rubber band around one of the AC pipes and then twice around the bolt. This kept the bolt up and away from the spacer in back and allowed the compressor to go in relatively easily.
I also reinstalled the Alternator and the support that has a gasket and coolant nipple that goes to the AOS. Added coolant. Pleasant surprise when the mail man delivered some parts that I�d ordered last week. I received a new blender cap for the coolant reservoir and a boot between the throttle body and air filter housing. This meant that I could remove the K N filter assembly and go back to a stock air filter. I also cleaned the Mass Air Sensor before bolting and clamping it all together.
When i started the car to continue bleeding the cooling system I noticed that it sounded and ran much better. It now idles around 800 rpm without having to run the AC!
it was too late and I was too tired to go for a test drive, that will have to wait until tomorrow.
Had the same problem on my 2000 996 with only 60000 miles. I went to do some preventive maintenance by replacing the IMS bearing and found oil in the coolant. Ended up dropping the engine and remove the heads. The machine shop didn't find any cracks. What i did notice that there is a area on the block that the oil and coolant are real close to one another and is separated by a small gasket. Since the oil cooler and everything else I could think of checked out, I could only conclude this area on the block as being the cause, My thinking was the gasket shrank over time which caused the bleed. There wasn't a great deal oil in the coolant but enough to cause concern. Like the threads before me, I'd check the easy things first and keep your fingers cross
1988 928 S4
2000 911/996
NOT what you hope to see from the engine compartment!
I took a short test drive this morning and ran a few errand. Last stop was the post office and as I�m leaving and waiting for the light to turn green I happen to look in my rear view mirror and there is smoke billowing up through the read deck lid grill! I quickly find a place to park and pop the lid. Steam everywhere!! Especially from the expansion tank area. First thought was that is a loose hose clamp and I had a small tool kit stowed in the drunk and was able to snug it down, no luck. Upon closer inspection the coolant was actually Lea I between the cap and reservoir... the NEW cap! Luckily home is only a few miles away and I mad a dash for it.
And this is what I found.
O ring cut and mangled. The o ring supplied with the cap was substantially thicker than the original ring. I just thought that with time the original ring had aged and shrunk, apparently not so.
Has anyone else tried the URO pressure relief cap?
I seem to be having troubles with my o rings. I ended up using the original o ring that was on the tank and a few parts from the new URO pressure Relief cap. Topped it up with coolant and have now put about forty miles on the car in 89 degree temperatures. So far so good. No more coolant leaks or steam and best of all the oil leak is also repaired. Tomorrow will be the real test as we are heading out for a trip up and over the Blue Ridge Parkway and over to Waynesville.
I Went to city tire this morning at 7:15 am and owner had previously told me that if I showed up early he�d squeeze me in and balance my front tires. The 996 has a shimmy between 70-75. Well, not so fast buddy, it appears that I have not one but two bent rims. Both on the passenger side. No time this AM but will bring the wheels in on Friday or early next week. They charge $95/wheel for the first dent/wheel and an additional $25.00 per dent after that.. Car packed and we're about to eat lunch and then were off to Waynesville, NC for an extended mini trip.. Keep your fingers crossed fo us.
Well the car is packed and we have eaten lunch at home se we get in and As I try to start the car it turns over slowly, clicks a couple of times and finally starts.... Hmm this battery though only two years old may not be reliable. It has been on a trickle charger and for the last two weeks I�ve had to use a booster on several occasions to get the 911 started. I make plans to go to the auto parts store near my house but before I even get out of the neighborhood a CEL light glows angrily at me! Quick turn around and I pull back into my driveway and reset the code. I don�t even write it down! Off we go to our next stop...
Picking up a new AGM battery.
Were not getting very far, very fast today...
Carl - you bought a car with one major issue but now you are working through the list of things that you would have been dealing with if it had not had that issue. They are getting to be old cars and need "stuff" done to them. I know you must panic a little with every issue, thinking it has something to do with the work you did, but most likely it is just the natural progression of bringing an old car up to snuff. Hope to see it soon (tomorrow?).
Yes indeed Jim, some deferred maintenance. Well good news, after the new battery was installed it was smooth sailing all the way to Maggie Valley where we met up with Charlie and Janet in their Cayenne. The drive to Maggie Valley was in some blistering hot temperatures, 93 degrees and then through a cloud burst which cooled everything down to 67 degrees. Through outtake drive the temperature reading on my 996 never reached much higher than just slightly to the right of the zero in 180, not bad.
Up early tomorrow to meet up with the rest of the Porsche group for a drive to Clingman�s Dome.
Carl, now that you're buttoning up this project, any chance you could share with the forum what costs were involved with your project including the price for the car in it's previous state? This would be critical information for anyone with engine rebuilding skills that is considering buying a roller and M96 rebuild. Thank you. Hope you enjoy that car.
I have not purchased any URO parts for my 996, but have in the past for a Volvo 850R and was not terribly impressed. Didn't use some of them they were so bad.
Given the cost of the Porsche expansion tank cap ($25.25 at Pelican) I'd go Porsche for that. IMHO, YMMV and all that.
Enjoy the trip!
Yup, thus the reason a roller needs to be bought at the right price or you could quickly end up over actual market value quickly.
It's a nice looking car and I actually tried to get it down to a manageable price (to me) but the lawyer would not budge.
I have been maintaining and updating a spreadsheet and entering ALL purchases. I hope to be able to post that in the next week or so showing what was necessary to purchase for the engine rebuild and what parts were installed because �I was there �...
I Drove to Maggie Valley, NC on Wednesday and spent the night. Thursday�s drive was quite long. Maggie Valley, NC to Clingman�s Dome then Bryson City for lunch. After lunch Janice and I drove back towards Asheville and then up to blue Ridge Parkway had a snack and Little Switzerland and are now staying in blowing rock at an old hotel. So far so good the car is running great even in temperature is as high as 90�.
Parked in front of the Little Switzerland Cafe, great spot for breakfast or lunch! Unfortunately closed by the time we got there. Luckily the book store next door was open and we were able to get a snack and a much needed cup of coffee.
We ended up in Blowing Rock, NC and stayed at the historic Green Park Inn.
�Celebrating more than 126 years of hospitality in the High Country, the Green Park Inn has served as a refuge for those seeking the charm and beauty of the Blue Ridge Mountains.�
http://greenparkinn.com/
On our trip during last two days we put about four hundred miles on the car and it now has just over 800 since the engine rebuild. 62,989 on the car total. I�ve had this pesky misfire ever since I installed the engine. It would run ok under load and when accelerating but at idle and under light load I could feel it skip. Yesterday day in Blowing Rock as we were getting ready to leave the engine check light went on and the code reader came up with P1317 Misfire cylinder five. I cleared the code and proceeded to drive home.
L
when i got home I pulled the number five coil and spark plug and this is what I found.
Take a close look at the electrodes!
Who put that plug into number five cylinder?😳
New spark plug installed along with the missing coil pack heat shields and now it just sounds great. No more hunting at idle idle and the idle speed is now good even with the AC off. What a relief! Test drive tomorrow.
Yesterday we met the Appalachian Porsche Group for breakfast in Hot Springs, NC.
Breakfast with the Appalachian Porsche Club at the Smokey Mountain Diner in Hot Springs, NC.
After breakfast we headed West on NC 209 also known as the The
Rattler
. What a great road, full of tight twists and turns. A roller coaster of a road or if you are a skier a slalom run! Still breaking in my rebuilt engine so I did have to show some restraint... I now have 1,000 miles on the engine and will change the oil and filter this coming week. It�s second oil change. I�m also going to upgrade the oil pressure relief valve and spring to the latest version that porsche is offering. I must say that I LOVE to drive this car. The motor pulls strongly, it shifts great and the brakes are strong.
Picture taken by another Rennlister. Thank you. Updated OP relief piston and spring. Redesigned piston and stiffer spring.
So far, so good. Next project is tightening up the worn suspension and I'm doing it's 2nd oil change, will send in an oil sample to see how things are wearing. Fingers crossed, I love these cars!
Hope that your Oil Analysis comes back with a good report Bill. Im going to be doing my second oil change next week and will also be sending it out for analysis. Fingers crossed as well.
When I do oil change number two next week I will also be installing a new updated oil pressure relief valve and spring as per this link...
https://www.renntech.org/topic/39205...essure-solved/
Not a common issue, but probably makes the forum "31 modes of failure" list, although I don't know what all is on that list..lol
The updated beveled piston and spring was actually designed to correct a "noise" when cold on the early 9x7 cars (m97 engines). They had a slightly different oil pump and were using the 996 piston and spring. When cold at a certain RPM they had a annoying/weird noise caused by fluttering of the by-pass, the beveled piston/spring cured this. At first we were just grinding a bevel on the 996 piston to cure it, then the updated part came out and it also superceeded all prior part numbers for 9x6 and 9x7..But very rarely you see a spring break , but it does happen..
Nope. The failure rate is probably 0.005%.. If you were going to replace every thing that "could break" or "will wear out" you will end up replacing everything on the car, BUT, if you do it all at one time, you will have a "new car"..(at 3x the price)..lol
I replaced the relief piston on my 2004 car only to find it already had the updated design. I went ahead and installed the new piston and spring but there was really no need to on my car.
The updated piston with the bevel (997 part number) didn't come out until middle 2005. Does your car have a replacement engine? I would think it had already been replaced at some point by PO, or had a replacement "AT" motor.
I had hoped to change the oil and filter today but the oil pressure relief parts did not arrive. That project will have to wait until tomorrow. But there is always something to do if you are the lucky owner of a 996...
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-half-way.html
Cost of Engine Rebuild
Roughly $6,500 or so. It varies because some items were elective, Water pump, Alternator etc. I also hope to recoup about a $1000.00 when I sell the original engine cases.
I've uploaded a spread sheet just click on the link below and it should open.
https://www.ez-bizwebs.com/3.4/image...neRebuild2.pdf
I hope that this helps anyone else about to embark on the same adventure.
I just changed the oil and filter and installed Motul 5W40. I also Installed the new updated oil pressure relief spring and piston.
Updated piston and new spring on the right. Spring length appears to be the same and the only difference in the piston is a chamfer on one end.
My oil pressure has gone up, I�m not sure whether it is due to the fresh oil or new relief spring or a combination of both... I was using Valvoline 10W40 synthetic blend. Before the oil change and warmed up I was getting about 1 bar at idle and around three to 3.0-3.5 when driving. The gauge now reads 1.5 or so at idle and between 3.5 to 4.5 when running it through the gears. This has been with the ambient air temperatures between 80-90 degrees and the coolant temperature around 180 with the needle center of the zero or just slight to the right of zero. I�ve also sent the oil out for analysis.
the engine now has about 1,200 miles since being rebuilt.
If you switched oil brands, that is likely to have the most impact on oil pressure. You could read the viscosity spec sheets on each oil and derive if that�s it.
Easy to understand explanation with some examples.
https://www.jcmotors.com/images/unde..._viscosity.pdf
Valvoline 10W-40 Viscosity Index 154
Liqui Moly 5W-40 Viscosity Index 180
You may hate me. I bought a 996 for just a few thousand. The seller completely lied to me. After taking my last dollars to get home, I was 90% sure I had a crack on the passenger side. Ton of oil in water, as well as water in oil. I put 2 cans of Bar�s HG-1 in the system. Once the Bar�s entered the chamber it smoked to high heaven. After 3-4 thermal cycles it was completely sealed. Be patient, that was the key. I have put over 20k on the car. No issues. I could not believe it worked. I guess the crack was so small it filled it up.
You did nice job on your car. I really did not have the money for a rebuild. I only had a few dollars in the bank. I guess God saved me.
Update, the engine rebuild now has 3,600 miles on it since last fall and is holding up well. I changed my oil and sent it off to be analyzed and all is well. Checked the oil filter for sparkles and found none. The oil analysis did find some fuel dilution. Looks like I’ll be replacing some injectors...
I installed Castrol Edge 5w50 (viscosity Index 170) and my idle oil pressure when fully warmed up is now 1.5 to 2. Bar and when running above 3,500 rpm I’m seeing at least 3.5 and above. I used about 1.2 qts. . in about 1,500 mi.
Previous oils,
Valvoline
10W-40 Viscosity Index 154 break in
Liqui Moly 5W-40 Viscosity Index 180 next 1,000 miles
Castrol Edge 5W-50 (current oil weight recommended by Porsche for the 996 family) Viscosity Index 170 current
If you have access to a smoke machine, it's a good idea to smoke test the engine. Injectors are a smart idea, but you need to make sure you don't have an underlying issue causing enrichment.
For those of you following this and are looking for a 5w50, Driven FR50 is based on the same additive package as DT50, but in a 5w50 viscosity.
