Recommend IMS bearing installer in St. Louis / Paducah / Cape Girardeau area?

I have a newly-acquired '02 911 and need to get the IMS bearing replaced so I can sleep at night, but I live in southern Illinois, which is a performance vehicle wasteland, so there aren't any shops I can trust to do the bearing replacement. St. Louis is the closest major metropolitan area (~100 miles), and Paducah, KY (60 miles) and Cape Girardeau, MO (50 miles) are also big enough that they may have shops that are adept at IMS-bearing-replacement. I've been Googling and calling, but so far none of them have given me a real warm and fuzzy feeling. Those of you who are in my vicinity, what shops do you have experience with that you can recommend? (Sure hope there's not some sticky about this that I missed.. I searched, I swear!)

Congrats on your new purchase! Are you a PCA member? I'd check with them (PCA) or other local members - they'll know who the best in the area are. You can also look on the FSI website for certified installer locations... Good Luck

I haven't joined the PCA yet, but I'll get on that. I just got a call back from a shop called Bespoke Motors in STL. The shop sounds knowledgeable and experienced with IMS bearing replacements (he knew about the various IMSB options and about the recommended other tasks--RMS and clutch), and the price was about where I expected it to be, so this is a strong contender.

Drive up to Mommence Illinois and have Charles at L&N Engineering do the work.

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You know, I'd thought about that, but I'm... not going with an LN Engineering bearing, and I think it would be kind of awkward if I were to show up there and ask them to install a competitor's bearing in my 911. (Hold on, I need to put on my flame suit.) The good-for-the-lifetime-of-the-motor IMS solution would be a no-brainer, but IMO $1849 is just way more than I'm willing to spend on the parts alone. The other LN options are age-based recommended replacement intervals, and I don't think it's financially wise to go for an option that will require me to spend ~$2000 ($800ish parts, $1200ish labor) every 4 or 5 years. So I am looking at some of the alternative roller bearing options, either MB Motorsports or EPS / Vertex. Probably MB Motorsports since it doesn't include the additional oiling, which both MB and EPS claim isn't needed. I haven't seen anyone else on Rennlist claim to have used either of those vendors' bearings, so maybe I'll be the canary in the mineshaft.

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The IMS Solution is the only proven "one and done" replacement. There's also a prequalification that needs to be done before any retro fit.

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Good luck to you. You're going to need it. FYI- Martin of MB Motorsports was banned from Rennlist. More than once, too. There's a reason for that. He's also received nice Cease And Desist letters from Stuttgart. Proceed with extreme caution.

Ims solution or bust. If your car is kinda shoddy, say sub 20k I would roll the dice and do nothing.It's been 20 years, mathematically it's the smart move to leave it alone. I would NOT spend a bunch of money for an "Acme" bearing. It is not much more to get the proven one. I would call Jake Raby and ask him where a certified ims solution installer near you is. My guess is that probably only about half the M96 cars out there would even pass pre- qualification anyways.

Perhaps his screen name is well deserved...

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You bought the wrong car. If you won't be a to sleep because of the IMSB, just wait until you see how many "As likely to fail" reasons for engine failure these cars have.

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L&N also sells/installs a roller bearing option, the RND roller bearing. It's very comparable to the ones you are considering in terms of design, and probably price. What price are you considering and have you compared it to the RND roller that L&N sells?

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This is the first I'm hearing about any of this. I'd love to see links / posts / proof.

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I'm eyeing either the: MB Motorsports roller bearing - $300, http://mbmotorsportsrepair.com/parts-for-sale.html or the EPS roller bearing - $579 https://www.europeanpartssolution.co...ng-upgrade-kit As far as I can tell, the MBM and EPS bearings are identical, except that the EPS bearing comes with an oil pump drive shaft that has a slot in it to force oil through the IMS, basically forcing oil to the IMS bearing. EPS admits that forcing oil to the IMSB is not a necessity, but is provided because "the internet" says it should. As the LNE bearing also omits forcing oil to the IMSB, I'm inclined believe that forced oiling the IMSB is not necessary. So at that point, if the MBM bearing is comparable to the EPS bearing but is half the price, that seems like the way to go. There's also: LN Engineering roller bearing - $749 - https://lnengineering.com/products/i...ofit-kits.html The main thing that has turned me off about LN Engineering's replacement bearings is that they've got a time-based replacement interval. The roller bearing is listed as 4 years and the ball bearing is listed as 5 years. I get that the original Porsche bearing should have had a time-base maintenance interval because eventually the seal on the bearing is going to fail and let out the grease inside, resulting in insufficient lubrication, hence the primary cause of the bearing failures. But the aftermarket roller bearings (MB, EPS, and LN) are all exposed to engine oil, and there are no apparent rubber / plastic parts to get brittle. EPS specifically markets its roller bearing as being "lifetime", so why does LN list a 4-year service interval for its roller bearing? If it was just a mileage-based interval for LN's bearing, I could almost stomach that. I'm going to put at most 5K miles per year on my 911, so it would take me at least 10 years to rack up the 50K miles that LN says its roller bearing should be replaced at. But if that same bearing becomes a ticking time bomb at the 4-year mark, when I've maybe only put 20K miles on my 911, that's just not acceptable. So, assuming that everyone's telling the truth and representing their products accurately, it would be foolish to go with an option that is a) more expensive up front and b) will need to be replaced, at significant parts and labor cost, in 4-5 years. Honestly, this whole process is going to make my head explode. I wish that the LNE IMS solution was ~$1K.. I could justify spending that amount for the peace of mind. But $1849 feels to me like it's a $1K kit with an $849 "peace of mind" surcharge. The kit includes the bearing ($849ish based on what LNE charges for its ball or roller bearings), the spin-on oil filter adapter ($150ish), a braided steel line ($50ish) and an oil filter ($12). So.. ~$1062. Not $1849. But obviously LNE can charge whatever it wants, and people either pay it or they don't. Sigh. I feel like if LNE's pricing was more like: --40K-mile roller bearing - $500 --50K-mile ball bearing - $700 --IMS solution - $1000 Then the competitors / knockoffs would be forced out of the market (because who wouldn't pick the well-known name-brand when it doesn't cost a whole lot more than the other options), and a lot more IMS solutions would be sold.

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Oh hush. There are plenty of things that can cause any engine from any manufacturer to fail. The IMSB is the only "OMG STAKE IN THE HEART" failure item on the M96, where, if it's not addressed, it can kill the whole motor at any time with no warning. Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit there, but there aren't hundreds upon hundreds of threads about any of the other things that can kill an M96, so as long as I have the IMSB replaced / upgraded, I'll feel like I've done my due diligence and can just enjoy the car without worrying. Much.

Geeezus !! You are wound up !! I wish I hadn't commented. It's you car, you should do as you want. I think you should buy whatever bearing you want and install it yourself. That should unwind you a little bit..

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Dude... read between the lines. They all have a service interval - it's just that LNE is the only one being honest with you. The others couldn't care less whether their bearing gives up the ghost a couple years down the road... Lifetime? Really? Do you think you'll ever collect on that promise? Do your diligence and be honest with yourself - there are no free rides. RE: Pricing - get over it. You already got a $90k car for $15k- $20k (if you paid less than that, you really didn't, you just don't know it yet...) Geeeeeezzzzzz this place never ceases to amaze me

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Honestly, after sleeping on it, I think I will do it myself. After reading this thread about a guy DIYing the IMS bearing on a Boxster (he used the EPS bearing, back in 2016), I feel a lot better about it being within my skill level to perform myself. https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo.../120457/page1/ On the estimate I got, there is about $2K of labor and parts markup, and if this is something I can get done taking a couple days off work (which costs me nothing), then I might as well.

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You're not going to receive any pats-on-the-back for selecting MB Motorsports and EPS here on the 996 RL forum. Both companies have questionable business practices that I would avoid like the plaque. EPS and Vertex are basically the same company and many people have reported problems with dealing with them over the years. Martin from MB Motorsports is definitely banned here on RL and some people have reported engine failure under warranty that he didn't honor. I'm going from memory here. If you need more "proof", then do a simple google search and you'll see the layers peel back quickly like an old onion. If you don't have removal tools, lifts, or experience with dropping a transmission on these cars, removing the clutch, flywheel, etc, then your best bet is to hire someone. There are two LN certified installer in the St. Louis, Missouri area. http://www.ettuning.com ET Tuning | Jon Rhodes | 6 Williams Drive, Union, MO 63084 ph: [phone removed] | email: [email removed] http://www.reidvann.com Reid Vann | 9331 Manchester Rd., St. Louis, MO 63119 ph: [phone removed] | email: [email removed]

You are probably better off doing nothing than trying to do it yourself or save money by going with a sub-par brand. Not saying the LN is the only way to go, but it�s proven and a no-brainer, IMO. Improperly installed IMSBs by mechanics have caused engines to fail down the road, and these are real mechanics too, not DIY�ers, maybe not true Porsche specialists. Even if they are Porsche specialists, are they M96 specialists? Makes a difference. I wouldn�t want any air-cooled engine expert digging around inside my M96... That said, did you call Isringhausen Imports in Springfield yet? Do they do IMSB installs? The money you spend on an LN solution could be recaptured if sold down the road. Not all of it, but some of it.

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You're being a gullible fool.

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EPS claims its bearing is good for the lifetime OF THE ENGINE--obviously it's not going to last forever. If the typical M96 needs a rebuild after 150-200K miles, I'm completely fine with expecting to have to replace the IMS bearing during the rebuild process. What I'm not fine with is having to spend $2K+ to replace an IMS bearing every 4 or 5 years, regardless of mileage. That's just asinine. I am all about value. A $95K car (which, coincidentally, is what MSRP was on mine according to the VIN) for $21K with low miles in great condition IS a really good value. What's not a good value is paying $2K for something that should cost $1K. Or paying $20 for something that should cost $10. If there's not a good reason to justify what feels like an artificially inflated expense, then I'd feel like I'm being taken advantage of if I paid it. Just because I got a good value on the car doesn't mean that I'm going to happily throw money away on other stuff.

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Nothing I am about to post here pertains to, or is directed at the original poster. He is already pre- determined, and has made his mind up about what he will use, or will not use. He has made his mind up, and no one could/ should try to change his mind. Personally I could give a damn what he uses, because I haven't been party to an IMS Bearing sale since 2011. I could also care less if he likes, loves, or hates what I am about to post, as these are facts, and are not being posted to further my position here, or anywhere else. My post should be considered by everyone else reading this post. What @dporto posted above is absolutely, 100% spot on. No one else has taken the time to truly develop these components, and pull things apart years later to judge them. In most cases someone whips up a copycat product, makes it fit into the IMS housing bore, and makes sure the engine will at least start, then they throw it on the market. These people are imitators, they are not originators, and furthermore, they are not developers. They will never be referred to as "pioneers", because they are not, and cannot be. They see a way to make a quick buck, with little investment in anything other than marketing, and they take advantage of that. These people are not posting any sort of time in service, or mileage points because they want their product to appear to be superior to the truly developed product that does have a service interval posted, and has had these intervals posted since 2008. At that time the other companies were probably not even in business, and if they were they had one of their other identities being used, or they were a customer of LN. Lots of these people were LN customers, and they used the LN retrofit kits to give them their ideas to imitate. To my knowledge all of these other people use my procedure to retrofit the bearings they offer, and they use my tools to do the job. Keep that in mind. It's easy to whip up some funky bearing that may come from Romania, and slap it into the engine, as long as someone else has developed the procedure and the tools for you to do that. That's what I did, and imitators **** me off. The service intervals are not "vaporware". These are calculated from bearing manufacturers, and supported by data pulled first hand from engines that had seen all the different bearings fitted, over both time, and mileage. All deep groove ball bearings, and cylindrical roller bearings have a service life. Some are posted deep in bearing specification manuals as a suggestion, and others are derived from direct, first hand experience, and empirical data. If no one else is giving this data out, they either do not have it (imagine that) or they want to make their product appear to be a permanent fix, by not posting service intervals. The latter is usually what their marketing people tell them to do, but those people aren't too swift, because they copied photos from my website, and used them in the other companies ads, as their own! Again, there's nothing I hate more than an imitator. Concerning the IMS Solution cost: Yeah, I am sure that you'd like to buy the IMS Solution for 1,000 bucks. I'd like to buy 50 BMG ammo for 50 cents a round, too.. But I have to pay 3 bucks a round, if I am lucky. Its the price I pay to be able to launch 660 grains of lead/ steel down range. It doesn't matter what you "like" as the price of admission is what it is for me, and for you alike. If I wanted to shoot cheaper, I'd shoot a .22 rifle, not a 50BMG. If you want to drive something cheaper, go buy a freaking Toyota, not a Porsche. The fact is these cars got too cheap, too quickly, and that wasn't because of engine problems, it was due to the economy that killed every European vehicle's value in the 2007-2010 period, and they never recovered. Often times people can afford to buy a Porsche, but they cannot afford to own it. Just like people can afford not buy a rifle that fires a 50 BMG round, but they can't afford to shoot it. The IMS Solution is not some cheaply made, under- developed IMS "fix". The IMS Solution costs well more than the 1K that someone wishes to pay for it, to manufacture, and that doesn't count the 10+ years of life that was expended to invent, develop, and Patent the art. I originally invented these, and made the kits ONLY for MY engines. I kept this to myself as a secret weapon for a long time, only using them in my engines, and never advertising them. Honestly, all the imitators that came along around 2012 (some of which copied people's other inventions from forums!) is what lead me to make the decision to let go of the product, so LN could spank all those other people's asses, with something they could never trump, no matter how hard they tried. That product is the IMS Solution. That's how each of you can now purchase the IMS Solution, before that, you had to buy my engine to even know it existed. Now, many of you will not like what I've said here, and you may feel that its a free marketplace, and that competition is good. I would dare say that if you have this mindset, you've never truly developed something, and dealt directly with imitators who choose to utilize your development to further themselves through questionable business ethics, and morals. I have no problem with competition, as long as the table is kept clean, and the other guy is just as inventive as I am. What I do have a problem with is the imitator that has 3 different business names in one year, or the person who throws things onto the market with a total lack of development behind it. That said, I know all of these companies, and I know their history, right down to when some of them sent technicians to attend my classes, and those people admitted that they had never had an M9X engine apart at their shop at that time. I remember a time when these IMS topics were much different. There were no copycats, and only one originator. In those days people were busy bitching at us, saying that it was "impossible to extract an IMS Bearing" from the engine, because Porsche said so. In those days we were the targets of people saying that we were making up the procedure to change the bearing, and etc. Go back to 2007- 2008 here on these forums and you'll see this. At that time the other guys were busy doubting that this could be done, too. See how much a decade or so can change things, when copycats jump in? Today no one challenges the fact that the IMSB can be retrofitted, and the very people that said it could not be done have my tools in their tool box. In closing, I will say that everything I have said in this post is of a general nature. I am not calling out, or referring to any particular person, company, or product. Some time if you ever get to see me in person, we can have a colorful conversation on this topic, which may make your ears bleed. I'm fed up with imitators, fakesters, liars, and marketing people.

It really sounds so childish. I think a rolex should cost 500 bucks,its so stupid what a rip! An phone should cost 80 bucks! this is ridiculous! Saying an IMS solution should only cost what you are willing to pay is such a ignorant take. Like, what do you do for a living? I think thats worth minimum wage. Such a poor take flesh rocket. Honestly, I think Mr Raby has sort of a complex relationship with 996's. I think there is a business of fear going on that hurts the value of these cars. Mr Raby pays a a lot of money to sponsor these forums and provides great information. Some of the best in the world for this car. Also can come off a bit rough and arrogant. I get that.I know people who have invented stuff and weeks later there is a Chinese company selling it for 40% off somewhere. I would be pissed too. I also have an LN thermostat, spin on filter, drain plug, and Ims. (should have got the solution) I believe in these products, their quality and development 1000 percent. I personally don't 100% believe in the service interval and would only do it on a car with very long oil service intervals or if I was doing the clutch. It's my money and if my car blows up its on me. I still have not heard of a an Ims blowing up because it surpassed its service interval. It's up to you mr flesh rocket to make your own decisions. You sound like an anxious, penny pinching mess. You probably should have bought an E36 m3 or s2000 or some similar sports car thats relatively bullet proof. This 996's require a certain owner. Not just someone who wants to drive a Porsche because it looks cool.

Like the old saying goes, "You Can Lead a Horse to Water, but You Can't Make Him Drink"...Good luck OP. Once you start this process, I guarantee you'll wish someone else (qualified) was doing it! Yes, there is proof of retro fits failing shortly after it's service life. Hopefully that member see's this and chimes in...It cost him a lot of money!

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Thank you for the constructive criticism!

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Buying a Porsche at a good deal then installing low quality parts that could lead to engine failure is being penny wise and pound foolish. Remember, a fool and a sucker are born every minute.

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Everything I've read or watched about replacing the IMS bearing makes it look like it's not rocket science--like someone with a modicum of mechanical aptitude, the appropriate tools, and attention to detail should be able to complete the task successfully. What makes you think differently?

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You'll see... Have you educated yourself on the prequalification procedure before any retro-fit should be done?

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I appreciate getting input directly from the horse's mouth. I've quoted the two parts of your post that I feel are most-applicable to me. I realize that you don't owe me any sort of explanation, so I won't be offended if you don't answer my questions. I also hope that you won't be offended that I'm asking them. First is regarding the service life. I completely understand the mileage-based maintenance interval. What I don't get is the time-based maintenance interval. What in the roller-based bearing makes it need to be replaced after 4 years? What in the ball-based bearing makes it need to be replaced after 5 years? (This time-based maintenance interval is my biggest mental hurdle towards me selecting an LNE bearing.) Second is regarding the cost of the IMS solution itself. Your development and patent time notwithstanding, I was guessing that the IMS solution costs somewhere between $300-$500 to manufacture. It was based on that assumption that I posited that I felt like ~$1000 would be a fair price for it. 100-200% markup is a pretty good profit margin, right? Now based on your statement that it costs more than $1000 to manufacture, I can swallow the $1849 price tag a bit easier. Out of curiosity, what makes the IMS solution cost that much more than the roller-based or ball-based bearings that LNE sells? The spin-on filter adapter and oil line obviously don't add that much to the manufacturing cost of the kit ($100?), so I take it that the plain bearing must be a lot pricier? Again, I know you don't owe me answers to these questions, but I appreciate any input regardless.

Nope, you can lead a human to knowledge, but you can't make them think. This is only because the procedure was developed, and became mainstream. Trust that in the early days of this, when I made the first puller to extra the bearings, and determined the bearing could be pulled at TDC was nothing less than a black art. When this was created, no resource material existed. No directives, and no instructions. Everyone said that it could not be done, and service writers at dealerships maintained that this could not be done, until at least 2012. No, its not difficult to do, with resource materials, written instructions, and videos that we have been sharing since 2008. You just have to follow the procedure, and don't retrofit an engine that is disqualified due to underlying failures.

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Conversely, if you can buy a particular good part for a fraction of the cost of a different good part, it's wasted money to buy the more-expensive option. That's the crux of the whole debate about which IMS bearing to use. Nobody in their right mind is going to put in a crappy part when it takes a bunch of labor to install it, and if that crappy part failing can kill a $15K motor, but when the less-expensive part is claimed to be of comparable (or possibly better) quality than the significantly-more-expensive part, then it muddies the waters significantly. If it was cut-and-dry that the cheaper part was crappy, then I'd pony up for the more-expensive part, no problem. But if the cheaper parts are crappy, why aren't we seeing reports of failures? Surely it's not because nobody's using them.

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Yes, I have read the prequalification. https://imsretrofit.com/wp-content/u...lification.pdf The engine runs well. There was no debris on the oil filter after a 1000-mile post-purchase drive home. I'm going to drain the oil and send in the oil for a Blackstone analysis. (I do this religiously on all of my vehicles.) I will pull the pan at the same time. I haven't gotten a Durametric tool yet to check the camshaft deviation or related issues, but it's on my to-do list. I haven't done a manometer test. I don't really want to spend $350 for a tool that I'll literally use once, though. https://lnengineering.com/products/t...ment-tool.html Is the manometer something that can be rented? If everything else checks out okay, is it the end of the world if I skip this particular test? I did notice that when I pulled the oil fill cap with the engine running, there was a ton of vacuum, and the engine immediately started running roughly and almost stalled. Replacing the oil fill cap restored the smooth running. Not sure if that reflects anything in regards to the manometer test. I haven't done a bore scoping yet, but I have a borescope, so it's on my to-do list. Do you care to offer anything beyond "you'll see"?

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Stop guessing. The DLC process alone costs more than what you "guessed", and that's what those costs were back in 2012, when I used to deal with that stuff. Who knows what it is today. That's not counting the bushing material, which is a special alloy, that took m ore than 13 revisions of the product to identify, before it went to market. At times this material can cost over 1,000.00 per foot, and you can only machine maybe 5 single row bushings per this foot of material, due to waste. Now, those things said, the IMS Solution flange, and oil filter adaptor that is made to specifically provide the IMS Solution with JUST FILTERED oil, is not even in the equation. Everyone is too worried about what someone is profiting off of something. Forget that, its none of your business, and it wastes effort. I call these people "vendor haters" for a good reason. Be more concerned with the proven product that has the proper development, and real instructions, and a proven procedure to back it up. Set aside the costs, and consider the value. There's a reason why the only thing that I feel is the most expensive engine you can buy, but you don't find my actual purchasers bitching about how much they paid for it. Why? Because their direct experience has proven that the purchase is a good value, despite the costs~ The reality is you have to experience the complications, and issues first hand to believe them. Are there failures, yes.. People don't post them because they don't want to be ridiculed for buying the cheapest thing out there, and then it fails, when everyone told them not to do it. Do we hear about failures? Yes. At least once every couple of weeks someone will install a product that's not sold by LN, and they will call to say that after the bearing was installed that the engine would not turn. They put the whole damn car back together, and didn't have the experience, or sense to spin the engine after the bearing was installed. They hit the starter and "clunk". Then they get to take it all back together, and do the job twice. Luckily they can do it faster, and easier the second time. Their experience is coming from the bad judgement that they executed. Do you ever hear of these? No, usually because shops are doing this, and they don't post here. They do post on private Porsche Technician forums and FB pages about these things, but you'll never see them. I could tell you stories all day long, all of which come to me because the mfr of the cheap bearing can't/ or won't help them. Guess what? I just listen to their issue, (and it sounds like a broken record) and wait to tell them that I'm not helping them, and they can't pay me for help. When an IMSB fails, the cost of the bearing isn't the concern, it's all the collateral damage that is created as secondary/ collateral damage. If you get unlucky, and it happens to you, the percentage of failure can be whatever it is, but in your case you get to deal with a 100% failure experience. That said, since hitting the open market in 2012 the IMS Solution has not experienced a single reported failure, and some have even lived after the processes were botched by installers. If anyone can find a failure report, I challenge them to provide this within this post. You can waste all day looking for it, and you still won't find it.

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The process of dropping the motor (5-6 hours if you've done it before )just to get access to the bearing, the investment in tools and then the time involved to get it all back together. The bearing swap alone is not difficult as mentioned above, just do your homework and make sure you have all the proper tools before you start. Not trying to discourage you. Also, there are other preventative items that should be addressed while the motor is out, not addressing these will bite you later down the road. Been there done that! Miss a step, make a mistake and your wallet gets lighter real fast. Shop around, Manometers can be found under $200.00!

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Not at all--anyone who's in business is in business to make money. I'd much rather that LNE (or any company selling a good product) make a profit and continue to stay in business. I just want to make sure I'm not being taken advantage of, a la the pharmaceutical industry. (An extreme example, of course, but we've all heard about medicines that cost $10 overseas but are thousands of dollars in the US because.. that's why the pharmaceutical companies can get away with charging.) To be fair, if I do use one of your competitors' bearings, and it fails on me, I'll post about it. All of the I-told-you-so-ers can flame me, and I'd deserve it, but I'd want to help steer others away from a potentially problematic product. And then I'd be ponying up for a $15K engine rebuild. Which would suck, but, so be it. If you wouldn't mind, please provide an explanation for the time-based maintenance interval for the LNE bearings--what in the bearings degrades over time, rather than mileage, necessitating replacement on a 4-year or 5-year schedule?

The subject has been beaten to death! Can you afford to take a chance?

PS I bought my 02 996 for $4K, thanks to the previous owner not taking the advice given then relying on a so called European Car Specialist to maintain/fix his car...They never did a prequalification. I bet if they did they may have caught the issue before it failed.

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First of all, those people are not my competitors. They have not been since I removed myself from the IMSB world prior to 2012. These people are actually contributors to my engine business, the things they do, and sell actually become an economic stimulus to drive more business to us, for complete engines. Since you have the feelings that you stated above, and feel like you are going to be taken advantage of, I will refrain from saying anything that could be confused with trying to change your mind. I would not want you to buy something that I invented, and feel like you were ripped off, which is what will happen based on your reference of the pharmaceutical industry. It doesn't matter to me what you buy, nor is it my place to spend my time here telling you about the data that was used to create service intervals. I'd rather save the posting privileges that I have to pay for here, for things that will actually benefit my company. You have made your mind up, and likely would be displeased if you paid 1800 bucks for something that YOU think is making someone else rich (don't we just love the modern human's mind set?) and should cost 1/2 what it costs. Based on my direct experience, if someone thinks this way, they must be left alone. Google "corrosive wear", and you might learn something about what happens to components over time, which isn't limited to ball, or cylindrical bearings.

Read all this and then get back to us. Good luck! https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...his-first.html

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Okay, so we've clearly gotten off on the wrong foot here. Prior to your input, yes, I had crossed LNE bearings off of my list. I get how that might have offended you, since it's clear that you've put a lot of effort and love into your products. Now that you and I have opened a dialogue, I'm trying to get as much information so I can to make a good decision. Let's move past my comments on perceived value--I concede that, based on your input, the IMS solution is a good value based on its manufacturing cost and level of engineering. I understand the concept of "corrosive wear", but Googling stuff is how I ended up strongly considering the alternative IMS bearing options. Please, tell me yourself what about the LNE IMS bearings has lead you to recommend a 4-year or 5-year replacement interval, respectively.

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^^^ This is absolutely correct^^^ BUT... there's a caveat - The engine needs to be "qualified" for IMSB replacement. If you don't "qualify" it (this is something you can do yourself, but you have to be totally honest - there's no "good enough"... it either qualifies or it doesn't) all bets are off, and even the 50,000 mile/6 year change interval goes out the window. Remember, as per JR's post above, this service interval was arrived at after years of installations and removals/inspections. Let's not try to re-invent the wheel here...

Last time I checked, I wasn't on trial here. Your question is for LN Engineering. I'd recommend addressing it to them. What you are thinking is that the service interval is it was created to stimulate sales, because that's how you think. You have proven that you are concerned about being taken advantage of by a vendor. I have my R44, 4.4L M96 on the dyno right now, it has made over 420HP today with all stock ancillaries, including stock TB, plenum, cats, and full stock exhaust. I'll focus the rest of my day on what I'm good at, and tell Charles from LN that he should weigh in here, to address this question as the mfr of the kits in question.

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Two reasons: 1.) You should try to find out why it�s a fraction of the cost. It should be a red flag. It often is. 2.) Now that you know why the real bearing costs more, and the cheaper one could be a rip off of the real deal, you have a moral obligation to not screw the real developer. I used to be like you - find the best price on X product. I don�t do that anymore because it turns out, I had to pay in the end. And when it comes to a 996, it can cost like 3X-10X to make a mistake.

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I'm big into knowing the "why" for things. In the absence of an explanation, yes, I wonder if the time-based replacement interval doesn't exist to try to direct people towards the IMS solution. If someone's choices are to spend $3500 once, or to spend $2500 every five years, then it would be foolish to go with the latter option unless you're planning to part with the car in the near future. But if the choices are to spend $3500 once, or to spend $2500 every 15 years (75K-mile maintenance interval divided by 5K miles per year = 15 years), then it's a lot easier to think "I'll let Future Me worry about spending another $2500 and save the $1000 now". It's very likely that I'll have my 911 for at least 5 years. As for keeping it for 15 years, that's hard to say. Wouldn't it be hilarious if I talked myself into the IMS solution and then you were like "screw that FleshRocket guy, I'm not selling one to him"? LOL That would be great. Thanks!

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You missed an important fact, Jake does not sell IMS bearings!

FR - you need to do some reading, and stop expecting everyone to just answer your (-rudimentary that have been answered here over 100 times already) questions. The change interval for the ball or roller bearings is 6 years or 75k miles - whichever comes first. The bearing degrades regardless of the mileage put on it - in other words if the mostly sits in the garage and only gets driven 6k miles in 6 years - it still needs a new IMSB... Seriously, you need to start doing some real research if you expect to start dumping money into one of these cars - otherwise you're going to waste an awful lot of cash.

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And the RND bearing is the only one with true thrust control internal to the bearing. It's also the only roller bearing kit sold by SSF Auto Parts (where most of your parts come from when you order from parts vendors online). I'm not keen on how EPS puts a bearing in and forgoes any method of bearing retention with a one size fits all kit. Plus coming from a company that thinks this is a good idea, anything is suspect: Vimeo

Wouldn't be the first time. I've left at least 70,000 bucks worth of engine business on the table already this year for reasons much like this. I did the same thing when I was broke, and trying to build this business. Not dealing with some people has been the key to success here. Dealing with the wrong guy is the best way to ruin a reputation in the Porsche world. The way I look at it, I didn't lose 70K, I saved my business. Yeah, How much more clear could I be about this?

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We offer intervals as we are being realistic. No mechanical part will last forever. Suggesting replacement at a reasonable interval to ensure bearings are replaced before they wear out is the same reason you change a timing belt on an engine before it fails. But as we all know, many ignore manufacturer recommendations and don't change these wear items as often as they should and that's a risk you have to decide whether you want to take or not. None of the competitors kits have been out long enough to see if they stand the test of time, where ours have been in service since 2008. The competition also make fraudulent claims and can't even get their story straight when it comes to warranty length or actual load ratings, which we share outright, including load ratings for other bearing kits. The IMS Solution is the most permanent one, backdating the engine to use a pressure fed plain bearing, just like an aircooled 911 engine. It's a proven design. But yes, it's expensive. But you are buying from a reputable company that supports our Porsche community and has been active on this and many other Porsche groups since before the company was originally founded. That is because I care. It's a free country and you are free to choose whichever product you feel best suits your needs.

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Isringhausen uses LN products.

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I'm in the St. Louis area and just had my IMS done a few months ago. ET Tuning and Reid Vann are both St. Louis shops that do IMS work. It was basically a toss up for me on which shop to go to. I talked to both, and they both had good reviews. I did the retrofit. The IMS Solution was $1,000 more. Had I not just paid for the car, paid those silly BaT fees(lol), and the worst part(taxes) I would have done the IMS Solution. My logic for the retrofit was i knew it would at least be good for a few years. At that point I wasn't even sure if i would still want the car after a few years. If I do end up keeping it for longer than that, I'll probably upgrade to the IMS Solution when it needs some major service. I think I heard that LN may give you some type of "credit" if you upgrade from retrofit to solution? Don't quote me, i may be wrong on that. When i talked to the shops about doing something other than LN, they did not recommend it. That was fine with me. LN seems to be solid, and i didn't want to skimp on my car. If your able to do the work yourself that will sure save a bunch of labor costs. I'd like to do work myself, but I just don't have the time or energy to mess with it. I'd encourage you to talk to ET Tuning and Reid Vann. They both seem like decent people to work with. I'm happy they are both in my area. I saw your post about the IMS being the one thing that can catastrophically fail your engine. Just wait until you start reading more about bore scoring! Actually, don't read about it, you'll never sleep again! lol Good luck with your car! they sure are a lot of fun! i had a blast cruising some back roads yesterday afternoon! bye bye salty roads!!

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The bearing has an L10 life. The 6204 bearing (factory single row), has an L10 of 90,000 miles, with an average engine speed of around 3,000 rpm, if memory serves me (this was calculated many years ago and I don't have the projection in front of me). That's a 10% failure rate in 90k miles. This translated to about an 8% failure rate under warranty for that bearing reported by Porsche during the Eisen Class action lawsuit (so, at most 5 years or 60k miles - I don't remember what the factory powertrain warranty was). For the dual row bearing, the factory reported a 1% failure rate, again under warranty. We don't want any failures, so that's where we came up with a 6 year or 75k interval for our dual row bearings used in the Classic Dual Row and Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit kits. We don't have a crystal ball, but we feel confident (and time has proven) with our recommended service interval a customer can be sure that their bearing is sound. We also emphasize time as some of the worse failures we've seen is from cars that sit and don't get driven. Combustion byproducts and moisture in the crankcase create acids that cause corrosive wear and we've seen pitting in the races on low mileage IMS bearings. Even if the engine is not running, it's exposed to a continuous load as well as contaminants in the crankcase - it's in service 24/7/365. Likewise, that's why we tell people to change water pumps every 4-5 years or at most 60,000 miles. If they fail, the heads crack and the engine overheats, possibly even causing a cylinder failure. The water pump too is in service 24/7/365. Many can afford to buy a Porsche, but being able to afford to own one is a different story.

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Correct. We do offer a trade up rebate if you are servicing your existing IMS Retrofit when it comes up for servicing: http://imsrebates.com/ In essence, we're discounting the bearing to cost as a repeat customer. What people don't understand is that we sell our products to all the Porsche parts wholesalers in the US (and overseas) and they won't touch any part like this for at least 40%. In many cases the shop putting the part in is making as much as we make. The wholesaler does the marketing and distribution to the shops, so there is an added layer of cost on every part sold. If we were running this business out of my parent's garage or basement and didn't have to offer employees health insurance, retirement, and other benefits, we could sell cheap like some of the other fly by nights selling IMS kits on eBay. When you are purchasing from LN you are helping to keep 12 employed here in the United States and you are buying products made right here in IL.

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Furthermore, Jake doesn't want to or have to sell anything to anyone. He takes on builds because he wants to. That's why I took over the IMS business as well as his VW Type 4 parts business. :-)

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We also work with Reid Vann and ET Tuning. Both are good shops.

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Thanks for chiming in on the rebate. For me, the LN prices don't seem out of line. I don't remember the exact amounts. What are they, roughly $800-$900 for retrofit or $1800 for solution? Seems modest for a US company in 2020, when trying to stay in business. Plus it's a part for a Porsche. The labor cost at a shop are more than the parts. Shops are small business trying to make a living too. I try to look at things through this view now.... When you buy "something" cheap or less expensive, many times you will end up buying the more expensive version because the cheaper version was not what you expected, or didn't perform how you wanted it to. In the end, you have bought the cheaper version, and the more expensive version. You've now spent more than if you would have just bought the better one to begin with...

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I think you should take your own advice here. I think the experience will do you a lot of good.

No one gives a damn about that. They are just selfish, and want to buy the cheapest thing they can, and don't care if they are supporting the Romanian, or Chinese economy, or not. As long as it is cheap, it could be made on Mars, and no one would give a damn. The days of supporting our fellow Americans, and our economy are over.

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This must be 100% true...just like with engine oil. If you never change it, it will last the life of the engine!

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Come on now, don't be THAT cynical. My 911 needs tires. The local tire shop is more expensive than buying through tirerack.com but I ordered through the local shop because I want to support the local economy. That said, it's only a couple hundred dollar difference, so nothing to lose sleep over. Believe it or not, I am a small business owner, too. We sometimes get clients who want to do things the cheap way and it's our job to educate them as to what the options are, and why certain options are better despite potential significant differences in cost. In my line of business, as with many others, the most-expensive solution isn't always the best, whether it's for our company internally or for our clients. So I sometimes end up overthinking and over-analyzing things. Before buying my 911, I mentally budgeted $3K for an IMS bearing, clutch, RMS, and labor. Doing the IMS solution pushes that number into the low $4K range. I am hesitant to splurge on myself, so I am having to convince myself that I should spend that extra money. I could just take an extra draw to cover the cost, but I am trying to keep money in the company as much as possible for internal improvements and paying my employees as well as I can. So please, don't go thinking that I'm some "buy cheap knockoff crap from China and screw the people who did the real legwork" kind of person. I just need to see and understand the value in something in order to accept it.

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Heh, you have no idea. I make a habit of generally doing my own vehicular maintenance, partially because I couldn't justify my toys if I was paying someone to work on them, and partially because I just don't like other people wrenching on my stuff. I am wasting hours upon hours agonizing about this. Do it myself, get the experience, and the pride of a successful job, and save a decent chunk of change. But.. take a couple days off work, have to source various custom tools, worry about if I've done it right, give up on free time (of which I don't have very much), etc. I just need to throw money at it and be done with it. LOL

I used the EPS bearing in my 996 3.4 and it was great. I also know the guys at EPS and they have not had a problem or return on any. Their bearing is a much better value and I'm sure if you call them they can steer you in the right direction to have it installed. If you have it installed when doing the rear seal or clutch it's an easy job.

^^^ MB from Miami - coincidence? Maybe...

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When was the bearing installed? How many miles have you put on your 996 since the installation?

I'm gonna hijack my own thread a little bit. Aside from the clutch, the IMS bearing, and the RMS, is there any other common failure / service item that would require the transmission to be removed? I'm pretty confident that my 911's clutch is in very good shape, and, unless inspection says otherwise, it could probably be reused and provide me with many thousands more miles of service before it's actually worn enough to need to be replaced. I would hate to have a good clutch replaced preemptively with the expectation that I wouldn't have to spend the labor cost to have the trans dropped again for a long time, only to have something else go wrong in a year or two and find out that the trans needs to come out again.

Your car could have been done already.

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If your car is a 99-01, you need to look at cam timing deviation. Most every car that comes into our shop with a 5-chain engine needs variocam wear pads. Also, many shops put on blinders with these cars. A pre-qualification is necessary to ensure the engine is healthy enough to change the bearing but also to make sure there isn't something else on the vehicle or engine that might lead to a failure. Most cars need a new dual mass flywheel and at that point, a new clutch. The water pump, AOS, AOS vent tube, and oil fill tube are just a few other items that should be addressed on most cars, specifically if they are original. In the grand scheme of things, the price of the IMS bearing itself isn't the bulk of the cost of this major preventative maintenance, it's everything else these cars need.

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Thanks for the info. Are the water pump, AOS, AOS vent tube, or oil fill tube things that need the transmission to be removed in order to be addressed (or are significantly easier to address with the trans out)?

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In our shop, when we are doing major service including the above items and the variocam wear pads in 5 chain engines, we pull the engine and trans as a single unit and do all the work out of the car. It is much easier that way.

You're starting to "see"...

In support of the crews that provide the parts for these, just as a comparison,, I have a 2006 KTM motorcycle,, its a 950CC V-twin Dirtbike.. Its got a waterpump that craps out way too early and mixes coolant in the oil,, another guy running a business much like FSI, sells a new shaft and impeller made out of harder material and has some tweeks to make it last.. the stock parts from KTM are like $120 bucks, the retrofit kit cost me $225 IIRC ,, but it last pretty much the life of the bike. He took endless crap about it when he introduced it over the cost .. Its about 6K to rebuild the engine in one and like the 996, some of the parts are un-obtanium.. (Cylinders for one..) Bore scoring is just a stuck float away on these engines.. Most guys end up piecing a new engine together out of multiple used ones with careful refurbishment of a lot of parts.. For comparison, my Carbureted engine was rated at 98HP when new.. The newer injected 990 makes just over 100,, basically 1/3 of a 996 engine. and about 1/3 the price to rebuild. (Pattern here) Performance plays straight in to cost of replacement. Its a BLAST to ride,, 500lb bike with a foot of suspension travel. But comes with all the maintenance over head.. Motrex oil(At about 100 bucks a change), an oil filter and 3 screens in the dry-sump systems.. Ignore the maintenance at your peril.. It needs regular attention. valve adjustments, etc.. Heck I get 1800 miles out of a rear tire that cost damn near 300 bucks + if I get lazy 50 to have mounted.. The IMS solution cost about the same as a full set (Or maybe a set + a extra) of good tires for a 911.. Yet lasts for the normal service life of the engine. Its less than a new set of suspension links, a set of upgraded cams, could go on.. But my drink is out of ice.

I ended up having the IMS solution installed by Reid Vann in St. Louis. The initially-quoted price was only a few hundred bucks more than what other shops had quoted for the lesser IMS replacement options, which made it a no- brainer. I say initially-quoted because that price didn't include sales tax or some other required parts / labor, like an oil change. (Definitely going to save some money in the future doing those myself. LOL) While in there, they also replaced the clutch (said that the stocker had 6mm left), and cleaned the body drains and front radiators, as well as replaced the cabin filter (also gonna save money doing that myself in the future). All in was $4500. I think the cost savings came from labor--other shops were quoting $1500ish for labor for the less-labor-intensive regular IMS bearing replacements, and labor for everything from Reid Vann was $1315. (Parts appeared to be at retail cost--$1849 for the IMS solution, $750 for the clutch kit, etc.) The turnaround was pretty quick, too. I dropped off the car on a Saturday (since the shop is 2 hours from where I live and that was when it was convenient for me to get it up there). They started on the car on Tuesday and had it done late Wednesday afternoon. (Originally they said they didn't think they'd be able to start on it until at least Wednesday so I was pleasantly surprised.) I was pleased to hear that they didn't find anything else amiss with the car, as I'd purchased without getting a PPI. This was not intentional--when I was buying the car, the shop that I had scheduled to do the PPI called me to cancel as I was getting on the plane to fly out, and I didn't have time to find another shop to check out the car while I waited. (I had a time schedule determined so that I'd make it back in time to pick up my kids from school the next day, which I did.) So I relied on doing a cursory inspection of the car myself and getting on the phone with one of my Porsche-veteran buddies for input. I'm generally a lucky person, and I felt good about making a 900-mile drive home without having a professional give the car a clean bill of health. Speaking of which, Reid Vann said that the factory IMS bearing, with 39K on it, was still in good shape. I'd have liked to keep that uber-expensive piece of hardware, but they said that LNE wanted the stock bearing as a requirement for the warranty coverage. Oh well.

Nice. Yeah, I�d say that�s a fair price for what was done. And your car has slightly more value with The Solution installed as well. Sometimes the added cost is simply... Worth it.

Smart choice.