PSE Modded 3.6 Mufflers - how close in sound to a real PSE?

I've searched thru the posts of the folks who have modded their OEM cans to be "like" a PSE...though everyone seems to like the results of the sound (at least on the 3.6 cans) how close is it really to the OEM PSE?? I won't get the debate going again on the 3.4 cans vs the 3.6 ones...but nobody really ever said how close the sound came to a PSE. I've already been given the advice to just buy the OEM PSE, but modding for ~$200 or buying new for ~$2K is a big difference!!!! THanks in advance, Will

If you mod the 3.6 cans using the correct size pipe, they will sound exactly like the PSE in bypass mode because that is exactly how Porsche does it.

So what is the correct pipe size???

2 inch.

Thanks for the info!!!! Now...to get a stock set of 3.6 mufflers!!!! If anyone has a set they are wanted to sell/get rid of, please PM me!!! Thanks,Will

What year car do you have. If you are running a 3.4 engine, try just installing the 3.6 cans on the car and see if the increased noise level suits you. I run cans from a 2003 4S on my 99 and prefer that sound to the PSE. Not as loud, but lower.

2.25" actually fit better when they cut the cap off the 3.4L exhaust cans that I just did. I also thought this was discussed before but isn't the 3.4 and 3.6 internals the same.

MAN!! And to think I paid $1500 for my PSE's!!

Sorry Palting... $80 at your local muffler shop

I think that I did read that someone had cut open the two mufflers (3.4 and 3.6) and that they were the same...but then there are still folks who said they are different...and also different in sound. In fact there was a post with someone who had tried both exhaust and they said the 3.6 was more sounding like a PSE than the 3.4 - it was posted by "87turbolook911" https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hlight=pse+mod

FYI about 3.4 vs 3.6 mufflers - I did the MKII version 2 mod (2 1/4" pipe from bypass to outlet) on a set of 2000 (3.4) mufflers this weekend and for all the work, it barely got any louder or throatier - almost unnoticable. I'm waiting to receive some used 3.6s, and will post a follow-up when I've done the mod on them. If you're thinking of doing the mod on 3.4 mufflers, and want a noticable sound difference - do the version 1 mod that connects the inlet directly to the outlet with the small pipe MKI, v1. Or get 3.6 cans like people in here suggest. With my first experience modding 3.4s, I'd say the consensus is correct - something's different with the 3.6s that makes them louder. Hope this helps someone. Mike

waldron, Eagerly await the results - thanks for keeping us informed

Wlee69, pm'd you. I have stock 3.6 mufflers I'm not using. Went with the PSE.

A while back, I did the MK II version (2.25� pipe) "PSE hack" on a set of 3.4 ('99 -'01) mufflers. They were a little louder and a little deeper sounding than the sound of the stock 3.6 ('02 -'04) mufflers. However, I was disappointed that the modified mufflers weren�t much louder than the stock mufflers. I am awaiting delivery of a set of 3.6 mufflers that I will modify in a similar fashion to the 3.4 "cans." Hopefully, I will have this completed within a week. When I have them swapped out, I will report back on my opinion of the differences in the sound.

I'm also eagerly awaiting my set of 3.6 mufflers to do the MK II mod. I've read about people doing the hack with 1 5/8", 2" and 2.25", is there a consensus on what to use and what differences the sizes will have on sound?

I'd done this mod and I love it. Check my posts in this thread . I got the idea from 1999Porsche911 - so give him credit ! Secondly, the wider the bypassing pipe you put, the LOUDER it will get. I think I used 2.25" or 2" - can't recall. Given that, if you want to know what the REAL PSE uses, you should measure (or politely request someone else to measure) the external diameter of the actual PSE's bypass pipe. Alternatively, if you have direct face-on photo (i.e. no parallax) of the real PSE you could simply measure (eg. zoom on-screen -> measure with a ruler etc) and compare the bypass pipe with the outlet pipe. This way you'll know if its smaller/equal/larger than the outlet and also by what fraction. Then measure your own mufflers' outlet pipe diameter and calculate the bypass pipe's real diameter. Finally, please go to a reputed muffler shop to get this done. You don't want any weak welds or any gaps ! The (very) hot exhaust can damage plastic/rubber around if it escapes at unexpected places. Also, the muffler guys are generally more familiar with keeping the pipes joints at smooth angles (eg. Y vs T) - smooths the airflow. I'd imagine a shop welding iron fences etc wouldn't know all that from experience. Depending on where you live, the welding itself can be between $60-200. Hope that helps and most importantly - ENJOY !

Thanks for the help, much appreciated. How loud is yours relative to Fabspeed, AWE etc? Can you describe how yours sounds? How much quieter do you think it will be with 2" as opposed to 2.25"? Thanks!

I got completely impatient and just drilled two 1/2" holes near the bottom of each newly modded cans near the exhaust inlet so I can have a little more growl [simulated ghetto V1 MOD] while I wait for my 3.6 cans. Sounds pretty cool for 20 minutes of drilling. Now that's super-ghetto!

Oh no, ghetto mods and in my neighborhood even! I've been trying to decide what to do with mine...but I've been leaning towards PSE...I'll be interested to hear your findings. -Mike

donuts... yuuummmm I'd say for the best sound per dollar spent go 2 1/4". It fits nicely over the 'nipple' that you cut in the corner of the can. I can't wait to get my 3.6 cans and see what they can do! My hole in the muffler mod is a nice temporary solution - I just couldn't take spending 7 hours of hard work with no marketable sound improvement.

I couldn't find a 3.6L pair of mufflers if my life depended on it. I'm going to check the local salvage yard.

I've heard the modded 3.6L mufflers and was very impress with the sound. Its no PSE but you can't beat it for the price.

I installed my 3.6L PSE "hack" on Friday! Some of you may remember that I had done the 3.4L PSE "hack" mod about a year ago and, while they were louder than my stock 3.6L mufflers, I was a little disappointed that they were not louder and deeper sounding. Special thanks to Ray S. who was kind enough to give me his stock 3.6L mufflers for free so I had the muffler shop mod them (cost $60). They sound deeper and louder than the 3.4L PSE "hack." While I have not heard my stock mufflers for about a year, I'll try to give a relative comparison between the two PSE "hacks" (3.4L & 3.6L) and REAL PSE mufflers which I heard in person about 4 months ago. Stock 3.4L mufflers modded with MK II PSE "hack" = 30% to 35% of real PSE mufflers. Stock 3.6L mufflers modded with MK II PSE "hack" = 80% to 85% of real PSE mufflers. I hope this helps. I also received a PM about what the "hack" looks like, so here are a couple of pics. Please note that the muffler shown on the left is a 3.4L muffler, but the mod is the same for the 3.6L mufflers . The 3rd pic shows true PSE mufflers.

How long does it take to swap the cans, Tim? (Remove and install) Anyone else sponsoring 3.6L mufflers?

Ken - It took me about 1.5 to 2 hours per side, so 3 to 4 hours total. This includes time to remove/reinstall both rear wheels. You have to loosen 2 nuts on the clamp (#29) which connects the muffler to the cats (slide the clamp off the muffler and on to the cat), then remove the group of 3 nuts on the bracket (#16 circled group). Once the mufflers are out, you can remove the tail pipe connector (#22). Take note of how the tail pipe is connected to the muffler, specifically how the "dimple" in the curved tail pipe aligns with the muffler pipe. You will need to align this "dimple" in the same manner on the "new" mufflers. If your "new" mufflers did not come with the brackets (#28) remove the bracket bolts (#24 & #25) and transfer the brackets to the "new" mufflers. Now attach the tail pipe to the "new" mufflers and reverse the process to install the mufflers. If you have access to pneumatic tools, the time can be reduced by AT LEAST 50%. Hope this helps.

I dropped off the cans that I got from a fellow member here last week and my muffler guy put a 2.25" stainless steel pipe. He installed the cans on Sat. I love the sound but more importantly, it doesn't drone! With the lift and proper tools, it took him 1 hr to install the cans. I need a lift in the garage.

Tim, I'm glad you were able to use them. My wife thanks you for getting them out of my garage!

The positive comments are making me think that the PSE hack may sound better than my GHL's. Are there instructions somewhere on what exactly the muffler shop needs to do? I can see from the pics that a 2.5" pipe is welded but what exactly is the procedure? Thanks, Stan

??? No instructions needed. BEFORE AFTER

TIM, Thanks for the instructions and the diagram! Now I'll wait for the next available sponsor for the 3.6L mufflers...

Agreed, no instructions needed. I simply showed the guy at the muffler shop the first pic in post #23 above and he did the rest. When I went to pick up the mufflers, I asked him if he had many requests to modify Porsche mufflers. His reply was "Oh, we were wondering what kind of mufflers those were."

And he was thinking, "Damn! I should've charged him another 100 bucks if I knew that was for a Porsche!"

Yep. Just tell them it's for a Civic...but make sure he makes the welds good. Just cause it's for a Civic, it doesn't mean that he could get sloppy.

I will be doing this mod on my car this spring, I was just a bit concerned about long term reliability. Do you think those welds will rust and break, have any of you guys heard/had any problems with that?

I have not heard of any problems with the welds. I would think if the person doing the welds is skilled, there shouldn't be a problem.

It's just a weld on a stainless pipe, not titanium. A competent welder would do fine. I had mine TIG welded since it's SS. It's no different than welding a regular pipe for a Honda... they're all made of metal, Porsche or not.

Any performance difference? or just pure exhaust note improvement. Thanks

Just more glorious flat-6 music...............

Do the "real" PSE give a hp increase even if not substantial? If it does, I suppose the increase is not due to the air flow created by this 2" pipe mod but rather something different internally within the mufflers. Wouldn't that suggest the PSE is not really the same as a modded exhaust as some claim? Please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area and thanks for educating me.

I have the "real" PSE on my C2. Porsche claims no increase and I did not notice any difference when I made the change.

There is no difference in this mod and the PSE you get from the factory providing you use the same size pipe.

Thanks for the responses. For some reason, I thought there was a hp increase with PSE.

For any exhaust system, there is very few hp that can be had since most factory setups are efficient already. If the Porsche Sport Exhaust didn't have the P word, would it still have hp increase?

Bragger!!!

Tim, I only turn them "off" when I am at a stoplight by a police officer, or when I am doing a long distance highway drive (I disabled the high speed automatic cut-out). It is a big difference with them "off" vs. "on", but I do love to hear that flat 6 sing!!

there may well be a difference between this mod and oem pse. what size hole is cut into (what appears to be ) chamber 2 of the muffler, and the hole cut into the outlet pipe on the pse? i did this mod recently and cut a 1.5" hole on both ends and used 2" ss pipe with excellent results. i will be doing it to a 2nd set of cans, but will open up the holes to 2" on the can side and even larger oval shaped hole on the outlet pipe. will post vids and pix at some point. suspect the true pse may have less "wool" in chamber 1 thus upping the volume even more. may even remod my first set by adding a 1" original pse type pipe directly from inlet to outlet pipes. i have my mig welder set up for ss so expense wise it costs me a few bucks for the sspipe so why not....

What high speed automatic cut-out???

JLX - I thought of doing just that, the 1" J pipe, from inlet to outlet pipe (MK I, if you will), on the 3.4L "cans" I originally modded. But, based upon the comments of others here, I wanted to hear the 3.6L modded "cans " (Mk II) If you decide to add the "J-Pipe" to to the MK II modded "cans" let us know if or how much that improves the sound. If that does, in fact, get closer to real PSE sound, I would be willing to give my 3.4L mufflers to anyone who is willing to pay the shipping so they could add the "J-pipe" to get a better sound out of them. BTW - in case some of you are not familiar with the "J-pipe" mod (MK I), here is a pic showing that mod.

The PSE automatically closes the baffles over 30 mph to meet European "drive by" noise regulations. There is a mod that eliminates this auto cut out on the PSE so it is always loud unless you switch it off. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...=PSE+operation

What about doing BOTH the Mk I MOD and Mk II MOD on the same canister? Anyone else crazy enough to do/try this?

That's EXACTLY what I was talking about in post #48 above. The 3.4L mufflers modded with the MK II process are not as loud nor do they sound as nice as the 3.6L mufflers modded with the MK II. However, if someone wants to add the MK I mod to the 3.4L mufflers that already have the MK II mod, they can have my 3.4L mufflers for FREE, if they will pay shipping.

aha, you mean the 27mph-47mph cut out.....not quite high speed thought there was another i didn't know about! here is a video clip of my PSE for those that are interested in what it sounds like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85143TXV0Ug

Let us know what you fine out. I have my 3.6 cans at the shop and he said the biggest hole he can cut out of the cap was about 1.5 inches. I think your right in saying the volume would be different. That's why I think gota911 claims that the 3.6 mod is 80% of the Real PSE. Now were talking adding a j-bend to the mod I'm thinking I might try this also

i remember being able to make 1.75" easily with correct hole saw, by using a small grinder 2" is easily achieved but takes time. the hole at the outlet pipe can be way larger than 2 inches easily....as the pipe meets at an angle. just was chicken and did 1.5" instead plan on adding mark 1 pipe mod on my 3.6 w mark 2 mod (1.5" holes/2" pipe) for sure after modding another set of 3.6 to 2" hole, 2"pipe, approx 2.5" oulet hole first..have all pipes in stock already... ps thanks to john romano for the set of cans..

hummm... wherer are you going to connect the mark 1 mod to the 3.6 mark 2 mod cans. Is there room? I want to do what your talking anout but I can't see where it will work.

sadly i've never heard pse in person so i can not comment beyond saying my mk2 mod would satisfy many people and is instantly addictive with no in car volume increase other than just (barely)hearing the growl under heavy acceleration i can also say that it sucks driving in nj with the windows open in 25 degree weather.....

don't use a full j , rather connect on the side of outlet pipe not at the back where mk2 is connected..it will fit think cuved L rather than J pipe.

Gotcha... I didn't quite understand your post #48. Sorry What about doing BOTH mods on a 3. 6 L muffler, instead of a 3.4L... I'm sure it might yield something different eh?

Why cut out the cap? Why not just remove the cap? That's what my muffler guy did. The cap is welded on...so remove the welds and that exposes the entire diameter.

No problem, I guess I didn't explain the idea clearly enough. That's a good idea but I like the 3.6L MK II just as it is, and don't want to swap the mufflers yet again. I think after this thread, no one will want the 3.4L mufflers to do the MK II mod, because a few of us have stated that the difference in sound from the stock mufflers is not THAT great. That is why I am offering my 3.4L mufflers for free to someone who might want add the second mod (MK I) in combination with the MK II mod which has already been completed on those mufflers.

I'll have to ask him why, I get mine back today and will install it later today or tonight. My bolts are so rusted that I have to dremel them off, I did the left side so far and that took about and hour to cut two bolts off and replaced them with two new ones. There is a large layer of rust between the bolt and nut. What a pain but when I get the 3.6 mod done it will all be worth it. I tried driving the car with no muffler but holy crap that is way to loud for where I live. I think my communist community would sue me if I left them off

Just curious, has anyone located in or near Toronto done that. Looking for a shop that has done it before.

Finished the mod... I need a shower It took 5 hours 2 dremels and 6 new bolts 5 cutting wheels and about a year off my life. My orginal dremel almost caught on fire after cutting off 3 bolts with a cutting wheel. What a pain in the *** the bolts were rusted so bad I had no choice and I didn't feel like leaving the car at the muffler shop all day. The shop charged $70 for the 3.6 Mod Just cutting the 4 bolts took more than 3 hours and the crap I inhaled I think I have black lung now. Yes I did try wearing a mask but it would fog up the safety glasses which was a must. All bitching aside though... 2nd best mod I have done to date. SSK is still #1 It's just perfect. It's just perfect for me. Like other's have said there is no drone and when cruising it sound close to stock which is nice because I like the radio for long road trips, but loud as hell when you step on it

well done.. 70 bucks is cheap as the ss pipe alone cost me about 35

OOOOOK! Who else has some 3.6 stock mufflers laying around??? I'm serious. I want to try this for myself. Perhaps I need to go to a dismantler.

Rob - I have some 3.4L mufflers that have already been modified that you can have. You could do the MK I (J-pipe) mod in addition to the existing MK II mod. I don't know how much that would "improve" the sound, but I would imagine that the sound would be louder since the air in the J-pipe would never get to the muffler. It would go directly from the the inlet pipe connected to the cats to the outlet pipe holding the tips. If you don't find any 3.6L mufflers, these are yours for free if you pay the shipping costs.

Congrats. My bolts were rusted too. Luckily, it was on a lift and my friend had the tools.

Video of 3.6 Mod

Aaron - Thanks for posting the clip. I was asked to do the same in a PM, but now I don't have to do so. (That's a good thing, 'cuz I don't know how to do that anyway. ) Your "cans" sound great! That is exactly how my 3.6L "cans" (MK II PSE mod) sound, too. I noticedd tot he right of yor clip on the site, there are two Porsche exhaust clips, "before" and "after" PSE, which were obviously shot in Europe. Those are a nice "before" and "after" sound comparison. Your clip sounds closer to the post PSE clip.

YEP, I'm glad mine sounds the same also! blurb blurb blurb

No Prob... Took all of 20 mins to shot and edit I thought it would be good to get back to the basics. Video is soooo much easier to understand. I now plan on using more video. I just suck at spelling and it takes longer to spell check my words than to shoot crappy video.

O.k. So I picked up some 3.6 liter cans yesterday and I'm going to try this mod. I have two questions though: is the consensus that a 2.25 inch bypass pipe is the way to go as oppossed to 2 inches (which is apparently the diamter of a true pse set up)? Second, will my exhaust tips that were on my 3.4 liter cans work on the 3.6 cans? I've heard that the 3.6 tips won't fit the 3.4 liter cans, but want to know if the opposite is true (i.e., whether the 3.4 tips can be fitted on the 3.6 liter cans). Thanks, Ill report my results after I'm through. Scott.

I went with 2.25 inch pipe. I'm very happy. I think the diamter of the new opening will make the biggest difference. My muffler guy did not open it up to 2.25 but more like 1.25 He said that he could only cut it open. Now others say they have had the entire cap removed. Yes the tips will fit

easiest and neatest way is to get a hole saw bit and put it on a cordless drill, you can easily drill within the recess of the cap to 1.5 inches, up to 2 1/8 if you drill through the raised outer lip of the cap. cutting the entire cap at the welds appears to leave a hole over 2 1/4 inches . i did 1.5 but will be doing another closer to 2 inches. the other hole (on the outlet pipe) ends up being elongated and thus can be much larger..perhaps 2 overlapping holes there are easiest. 2" pipe & 1.5" holes is awesome but i want just a tad more volume..personal taste and all. above measurements just taken off an 02 can.

Did you run over a body at the 1:10 mark? Great job on the video. Not exaclty PSE sound but pretty close.

I think it's a rod that runs long the roof behind the sunroof or it's the sunroof. Not sure, but when I hit any bumps thats what happens. I'm still trying to find a fix. thanks I'm happy for what it cost. I would hope spending 1500 or more would get you a better sound

Scott - yes, the tips will fit. I had my 3.6 tips on the 3.4 mufflers for about 8 months, and now they are back on the modded 3.6 mufflers. Both types of mufflers have the same flange connection to hold the tips. My 3.4L mufflers have a 2" mod pipe. I didn't measure the diameter of the 3.6 mod pipe before I installed the mufflers on the car, but it is at least 2" and could be 2.25" (which is what I originally requested).

Here is a great explination of how the stock 996 mufflers work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZDbA...elated&search= Here is a stock versus PSE "before" and "after" comparison. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaP1M...elated&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jaDB...elated&search=

Hey guys, I have one more questions. Both muffler shops I visited today to inquire about this mod said they don't bend stainless steel pipe and that if they did it they would use some sort of "aluminized tubing." My guess is that I shouldn't do that if everyone thus far has used ss. Any comments? Has anyone used anything other than stainless steel for the bypass pipe? Thanks.

My muffler guy had SS pipes that were already mandrel bent. I suggest going to a different shop. Ask them if they have pipes that are already mandrel bent.

Stick with SS pipes.

o.k. I just got done calling 8-10 muffler shops in the Phoenix area and not a single one can bend stainless steel pipe. Further, none of them could even recommend a local shop in the Phoenix area that could do it. Now, one or two shops told me the type of material should not in any way affect the sound, and that this would be controlled only by the lenghth and diamter of the pipe. I'm contemplating trying this mod without stainless steel pipe as the whole point of this project was to get it done cheaply. Any other suggestions? Other than the fact that the real pse uses stainless steel, any other reason to stick with ss?

Just use regular exhaust pipe and put a couple of coats of exhaust paint on the outside,. It will last longer than many other things on your car.

ScottArizona: I just got a set of the 3.6L mufflers off eBay...and fisterD is ordering up the 90 degree stainless in 2.25 inch tubing from Burns. You might give him a PM and he'll give you all the necessary details on how/where to get "the right stuff". If these turn out anywhere like the folks on Rennlist are saying they sound, I'll may be putting my Schnells up for sale. The downside is that the OEM mufflers are a lot heavier than the Schnells.

Do your Schnell cans drone? What's the reason for you wanting to try the PSE-mod setup?

No the Schnell's don't drone (resonate) at all. You really don't hear them at all unless you're accelerating...it's just that I thought I'd try something that had a bit more of a throaty sound to it. The Schnell's are actually quite nice and the fitment (installed by SharkWerks) was dead on with no install issues. The Schnells are also a whole lot lighter than a modded 3.6L muffler. I figure that if I don't like them I can put the Schnells back on....but most of the comments I've heard here are raves about this mod. If I do like them then I will off the Schnells.

Yes I have (2002 996 C4S). I got it done right at Pfaff Porsche. They have one guy - Mike McCarthy that does this Mod. They wanted to put in a 1.5" jpipe, however I requested larger, and they put in 1.75". Mike said that over 1.75" would be too much for the bend in the SS pipe. After reading this thread, I would've insisted on the 2" or more. I also got a print out of Horse Power and Torque before and after, using GTech. It shows an increase of 16 H.P., and 21 Ft-LBs Torque. I did the Mod for the sound, so the extra H.P. and extra Torque was a bonus. If you are interested let me know, and I will post the graphs they gave me. Also, hi everybody! - my first post in here. John **EDIT: I forgot to mention, I also put in 997S headers (Porsche dealer had an extra pair laying around). This gives you a better picture in case you are wondering about the HP and Torque gains. The service manager suggested a GIAC flashed chip if I wanted 4 or 5 more HP, but for the price it's not worth it.

JDS welcome. did they do the mk 1 or mk 2 version ? having done this mod myself at home I don't get the "over 1.75" is the too much bend stuff". thats just pure bull sh **. Reminds me of the muffler guy that told a member he could only cut out a 1 1/4" hole in the cap.....

Thanks. This was mk 2. I did read somewhere in this thread about someone else having a problem in properly bending a larger than 1.5" (in this particular case) SS pipe. Mike also mentioned it would be harder to fit in due to space - I also don't know why they would have a problem with 2" or larger, however they sounded genuine and trustworthy individuals. I really love the sound, specially when the vario cam opens at around 4000 RPM. However, I would love it louder (not too loud) If below 4000 RPM, it is just deper, and slightly louder than the stock volume, which is ideal for the neighborhood and cops. Oh and did I mention that I love how the sound opens beyond 4k? John

John: Welcome and thanks for the info. Can I dare ask how much the dealer charged you?

Thanks and you are welcome. I paid too much! ** EDIT: $1100 CDN. I had just got the car, and was too afraid of taking it anywhere else besides the Porsche dealer. Also, warranty in the exhaust system and related components was not voided, since it was modified by Porsche. After reading this thread though, and seeing the posted pictures, I see that I could have done it for way less. Live and learn! As for the 997S headers, they cost me $630.00 CDN installed. They also affect the sound (louder), because of slighly less back pressure. John

One detail I forgot to mention, is eventhough HP and Torque went up, fuel economy is slightly down from 9.8 l/100 Km to 10.4 l/100 Km, (Highway only) cruise control at 100 Km/h, 50 Km trips. John

Kinda OT but don't 02+ cars have the same headers as the 997S headers anyway?? (I thought I read that somewhere) edit: Nevermind...it was the X51 headers for the 996 that's the same as the 997S headers. Sorry.

Hi Arnee Yes, the 997S headers allow more flow than the 996C4S, one being 320 HP the other 355 HP. John

O.k., here is my update. I elected to go with the standard exhaust pipe material rather than stainless given the diffuculty and cost of stainless steel (and because I am seriously impatient). I picked up my cans yesterday from Midas (first mistake, I know), and I was not pleased. Even though I left the picture of the mod with the guy, they made the added sections "bulge" too much. They do not resemble the photos, which showed the bypass pipe with a nice, low bend at the cap followed by a relatively flat run to the outlet pipe. In other words, my pipes are more curved, and actually come real close to extending beyond the height of the top of the outlet pipe where the tips attach. The first thing I thought when I saw them was that they might not fit. Moreover, one of the pipes they added is clearly longer than the other...not by much, but it is longer. Finally, they also told me they could not bend the 2.25 pipe enough so they just used 2-inch (without asking me, of course). Nonetheless, having only spent a couple hundred on the whole endeavor I decided to install them last night. The bad: the added bypass pipes come very close to the heat sheilding on the inside of the bumper, and on one side it may be touching a bit, although it is probably just close. A word of warnign to others: make sure the welder knows to keep the pipes relatively low so as to avoid any potential clearance problems. The good: There is a marked improvement in sound in my opinion. The sound is definately lower, and louder. When I get on it, the sound is really, really, nice. It is not as loud as my dad's ghl's or other aftermarket exahusts I've heard, but the tone is excellent and very aggressive. The better: There is absolutely no drone, resonance, or untoward vibrations. I love my dad's ghls but they did make his car vibrate a bit at idle. Not so here. It is basically a stock sound, just a tad lower, at idle and low rpms. This will make the wife very happy. All in all, for the cost (275 total), its a total winner. Summary of my mod: 1.5-inch hole in the cap, 2-inch exahust pipe (not stainless). The sound is great, although I can't compare to the real PSE since I've never heard one except on sound clips. No vibration, no resonance, and very aggressive sounding without being obnoxious. As an aside, a MAJOR kudos is due to Tim K (GOTA911) who a few posts back posted a pic showing how he removes the tip collar (using two screw drivers inserted in the shape of an "X" and squeezing the handles together). This is a stroke of genius! Last mufflers I installed I struggled with those collars for about an hour and seriously mangled them in the process. With Tim's tip I had them both removed and installed in about 5 minutes! Awesome tip.

Scott - I'm glad that "tip" about removing the exhaust tip clamp worked for you! Those can be difficult to get off.

Any pointers where I can find the 3.6 liter cans? I checked DCAutomotive but they wanted some insane amount of $. I didn't see any on ebay either. donations most welcome of course

Dustin: When I started looking, I posted to RennTech, Rennlist, and Pelican looking for a set. I received no responses, so I put in a search routine on eBay and found an auction going on a set of the 3.6L cans. I got them for $100 from a wrecking yard in Las Vegas...and I guess I was lucky. Most wrecking yards are hip to the fact that guys are looking for them and have jacked up the prices. You might find a yard that hasn't gotten the word. Sometime later, I saw a fellow on either Rennlist or Pelican who responded to another forum member and GAVE him a set. There are some folks on these forums who are willing to give them away, whereas others will sell them to you at a fairly decent price...you just have to make periodic inquiries and stay on top of it. I also saw a discussion thread where a fellow was making the rounds of the dealerships and picking up sets of the 3.6L mufflers which had been taken off new cars for upgraded muffler systems. That might be something you want to try...I never thought of it when I was looking. Good luck in your quest....you'll love the results. Chuck

dustinhu: I actually got my 3.6L mufflers for free from a very kind local Rennlister. Just last week I saw someone on here offering up another set for free. I think you kind find them cheap/free if you are patient.

cool, thanks.

I did the MKI on my mufflers using 1.5" pipe, it is crazy loud under full throttle! In underpasses, I can scare the hell out of people if their windows are down. I want to hear the MKIIs in person but havent.

IIRC....the folks doing the MKI conversion are actually using the stock mufflers off the 3.4L engine. There are threads here on Rennlist that have pictures and written descriptions of the "How To" for both the MKI and the MKII conversions. The MKI uses smaller diameter pipe... For you guys trying to find stainless steel pipe...you buy it ready made from Burns. I've read here where some of you are trying to find someone to put mandrel bends into the stainless. I don't know of anyone who does that...but you can buy it ready made in various diameters....buy a 180 degree piece and cut it in half. I paid $75 for a U shaped piece of 2 1/4 inche stainless...cut it in half and used half for each muffler. It came out fantastic.

This may be a dumb question, but I am planning on doing the MKII mod. I am picking up a set of stock mufflers from a shop that took them off someone else's car who was installing aftermarket mufflers. Is there a way to know if the set I am picking up are from a 3.6L as opposed to the 3.4L. I'm not sure if the owner of the shop will remember what car they came off as he just had them in his parts. Thanks

Yes....on the 3.6L mufflers one of the two exhaust tubes will be corregated...or accordian like. On the 3.4L mufflers, both tubes are smooth. If you do a search on the title..."modding the 3.6L mufflers for a MKII design" I posted pictures of the entire process. If you can print out the pictures....just take them to your welder and have him copy the design. They work great....Gota911 talked me into doing this mod and I really like the results. Good luck...

Chuck & Tim, Why is it that everyone who wants to do the mod, has to have an extra set of the cans? Is it so they can switch them back to the originals if they don't like it after the mod is done? Since I can't seem to acquire a spare set, I've been thinking of using my originals on the car. I don't need the Pcar everyday for daily transport so it can sit in the garage while I remove the cans for welding. The only thing that is holding me back is...what IF it's too loud, or for whatever reason I regret the mod... I've listened to clips, but I know it's hard to judge from them. I really need to listen to a live roar in person, then I'd be able to say, "That's what I want for sure!"

Cos: Yes...I think that's the primary reason...I have my original 3.4L mufflers in the garage saving them in the event I ever did want to switch back to stock. I keep all original parts when I do any mod so that I can retro if necessary. Plus the fact that there wasn't much info out on the MKI or MKII mods when I did mine, and the unknown factor made it prudent to keep the originals. At this point, there are enough folks out there (me included) who can vouch for the process as well as the results....that you can be pretty sure the results will be satisfactory. If you want a set of the original 3.4L mufflers...I can give you the name of another 996 fellow who is willing to give his stockers to a Pcar afficianado. All you'd have to do is pay the shipping from Sacramento, CA. The weight of these mufflers is about 45 pounds...and IIRC, shipping runs around $60 via UPS...maybe a bit more to Florida. Chuck

Thanks Chuck! I don't think I want the 3.4 cans. I remember Tim offered the ready-modded 3.4 MK1 cans, but I'd prefer to stick with the 3.6 cans as it seems everyone's saying the MK2 sounds better. I'll think about it for a while, I might just go ahead and mod my original cans.

The only reason I didn't use my original stock 3.6L cans because I am leasing the car. If I decide not to purchase it at lease end, I will put the stock cans back on the car. If I owned the car, then no problem, I would have done this in a heart beat!

Zose - look at the pic below. The muffler on the left is a 3.4L muffler. The intake (longer) pipe, which connects to the cat, is a regular pipe. Note: the 3.4L can has already had the MK II PSE mod completed on it. The muffler on the right is a 3.6L muffler. The intake pipe has the "accordion effect" (circled) built into the pipe. THis one is totally stock (no modifications have been done to it). Accordion = 3.6L muffler No accordion = 3.4L muffler

Tim- Thank you very much..that is exactly what I was looking for! I'll let you know how the install goes next week.

for all this trouble and uncertainty, why not just buy the real thing?

Money What uncertainty are you talking about. No one that I know that has done this mod has had any problems Cost me $70 to mod, Min $1500 for the real ones

Uncertainty as in piping, whether the welds will hold over time, time, not sure whether you're losing power or not... that kinda stuff. And ultimately, the sound. You're not ever really getting that PSE sound, just close to it. I'm not trying to be condescending at all... I figured it had to do with price, but at what "cost" is the thing I'm questioning.

Fair questions... I can only answer for me Piping- is not really a big deal as with the difference between 2" and 2 1/4" the volume difference of air is minimal. Sound would only be slightly deeper with the larger pipe Welds- will hold as long as the guy doing the work is not a complete idiot Power- This one has been debated to death I believe there is no gain or loss, but I have never done a dyno. Porsche PSE's claim on loss or gain Sound- It sounds perfect to me. I was not looking to have the sound of the PSE's or Fabspeed. I just wanted it to be louder and it is So after weighing all of the above I decided it was the most cost effective way to getting what I wanted. If some thing goes wrong, well then I just put back on the old 3.4 muffs and be out $70 P.S. I didn't feel you were condescending. It really is the money

I would have to agree with evansaero. I am keeping my stock cans just in case I dont' like it or I decide to sell my car at some point. I'll be out almost nothing for the mod and it'll be a fun day working under the car. Benjamin, since you're local to me if you want to see / hear them after I'm done, you're more than welcome too. I'm picking up the cans this weekend, and will probably dive into it next weekend.

My cost was free, I was not **** about using SS so I used mild steel tubing. You can use alumized pipe also (cheaper), should never rust. You guys who are worried about not liking the sound, I guarantee you will over the stock cans. If dont like it, you have no pulse and should buy a hybrid.

I'm with evansero...cost was the primary factor in deciding to go with the MKII mod. I don't think I would gain that much in sound satisfaction by spending another $1200 to get "pure" PSE sound. I'd have to put a PSE car right next to mine to be able to tell the difference....but driving down the road all I can hear is a very satisfying sound. I stuck my car next to Loren's (RennTech) and will admit that his PSE sound was deeper, a bit more refined, and had a better growl at idle....but away from his car, I couldnt' tell the difference.

What's good out there? Prius? +1 to evansaero's comments.

Hey guys, you have been so helpfull. I just bought an 02 996 c2 cab and would like to take the car to a muffler shop and have them do everything. Does anyone recomend a particular shop here is Los Angeles? I prefer for it to sound as exact as possible to the PSE...no more, no less!

Where in Los Angeles, specifically? There's Lucent Motors in West LA. www.lucentmotor.com tell them Arnee sent you.

Could'nt tell you Arnee, if it isn't killing the environment, I don't drive it...

Lucent is the best in all California but from what I read any muffler shop can do it, right?

Can anyone comment if someone with a 3.4L C2 can do this mod using C4 and C4S mufflers from 2003 and 2004 cars (3.6L)? Will this complicate or change things in any way, or will they drop right in? I notice in the PET catalog that C2 and C4/C4S had different mufflers.

I don't think it matters....as long as it's the 3.6L mufflers they should work. All we're really talking about is the fitment and distances and specs betweent the inlet/outlet pipes. I can't imagine Porsche re-tooling with different mufflers just because its a C4. Go back in this thread and look at the pictures...they should be spitting images of the 03 3.6L mufflers you're talking about.

They should just "plug & play." I know that they have different part numbers but I don't think that there are any material differences between the C2 & C4 mufflers.

Also with regards to the stainless to order from Burns, does anyone have the correct part #? I see they have 321 and 304 stainless, and different gauges. I know its 2 1/4" U bend but there are more selections to make, anyone help?

Fire off an inquiry to Darin (Rennlist handle is FisterD) and ask him. He's a master welder and he did mine for me....do a search on "Modding the 3.6L mufflers for a MKII design" and you'll see the whole process in pictures. Darin ordered the stainless pipe for me and had it there when I showed up for the modding process. He's got all the specs and addresses for orders.

This mod is interesting and I am tempted to go for it. Questions: As I understand it, if I get a PSE installed, It will come with a button on the center console that I can use to toggle from stock exhaust to a louder bypass exhaust right? When I do this modification, it's like PSE, but it's always going to be bypassed right? I ask because there are sometimes ( long trips or waking up the neighborhood early in the AM) where I might not want a loud exhuast. Being able to toggle it back and forth would be nice, and maybe worth the price to me. Not sure.

Essentially, you are correct on all points. PSE, with the wiring, works like this: PSE OFF - car runs in QUIET mode (similar to stock or non-PSE mufflers) PSE ON: - from 0 to 30 MPH (approximately) car runs in LOUD mode - from 30 to 45 MPH (approximately) car runs in QUIET mode * - from 45 + MPH (approximately) car runs in LOUD mode * This is known as the "cut-off" (or "cut-out") mode. It is required to be compliant with some Euro noise abatement laws. There is a "hack" or modification that can be made to the electronic controlling unit to eliminate the "cut-off" mode completely. If this mod is performed then PSE with the wiring would operate like this: PSE OFF - car runs in QUIET mode (similar to stock or non-PSE mufflers) PSE ON - car runs in LOUD mode If PSE is installed without the wiring, then PSE would run in LOUD mode all of the time. Many guys have installed PSE after getting their cars but have chosen not to install the wiring because they like the LOUD mode. This is why doing the PSE MK II mod to the stock (non-PSE) 3.6L mufflers is very popular. You get 85% to 90% of the true PSE sound for less than $100. Hope this helps clarify the situation for you. Let us know if you have any questions.

So....just to get this strait.....if I have an '02 996.....if I wanted to do this mod...I can use my stock cans? How much would it cost for a local muffler shop to do the entire mod? I'm talking about me driving up to them, without removing the cans before I get there. Is this really something a midas shop can do?? Thanks, J

Yes

I wanted to add one thing to Gotat911s explanation of PSE states. If one is having a PSE kit put in with the electrical/vacuum valve setup installed, have the wiring is installed without the speed sensor pickup wire (the pink wire on the PSE harness) connected. This way the 30 mph to 45 mph auto-quiet mode is not enabled. I highly recommend enabling the ability to switch the mufflers into the quiet mode. In certain circumstances it is a real advantage. However the auto-quiet mode is lame.

Tippy: Reference your question about Midas doing the mods....the muffler shops don't seem to take the time to do the job so it looks really nice. I guess it might not matter to some because the mufflers are tucked up under the wheel wells.....but if you do have a Midas or other muffler shop do it, try to impress upon them that the finshed product should fairly closely resemble the pictures. Some of those folks will turn the finished product into a butcher job. Also make sure that if you do the MKII version, the bypass pipe runs parallel to the body of hte muffler so that you won't run into a fitment problem when you go to install it.

After all the inspiration I have received regarding the MKII Mod I am looking to saddle up and get it done. I don't really trust any old muffler place here in LA to do it, but I know Darin ( Fister D) knows what he is doing. Only issue is he is about 5 hours away so I figured I could buy a set of 3.6 cans and send them to him instead and then just keep my stock cans for later. Anyone intrested in getting rid/selling of their's?

I just wanted to add my support to the PSE mkII mod. I have a 99- c2. I had the MKII mod done at a local independent muffler shop. I used 3.6 mufflers- ebay for $110, 2.25" pipes, muffler shop charged $80. Total price $190. I am extremely pleased with the results. There is a definite difference however not too obnoxious. Much more grumbly, finally sounds like a high performance car. I have changed 996 mufflers about 50 billion times. I have a few tips that make the change very fast. Use an air ratchet with a 13mm socket on the top two muffler mount nuts and an air ratchet with a 12" extension, 13mm socket with a universal joint between the extension and socket for the single lower muffler mount nut. Other that the tips, the whole change takes me about 15 minutes. The tips take me forever to get them set-up properly.

You guys rock! I bought a set of 3.6's off a a guy on this site shipped for $250 last week. They are new. He had a custom exhaust put on his C4S before he took delivery. I am going to try and have this done next week for my 01 C2 Cab.

I am still trying to located a set of mufflers to do this mod on my 99 C4. What year do the 996 mufflers change from the 3.4 to the 3.6 mufflers? When I am finding used ones the people selling them on ebay, etc. don't always know what engine they came off of, but they can tell me what year. thanks, Dustin

It changed in '02. I can't find any on ebay! Everybody makes it sound so easy to find takeoffs but I can't find any?

Dustin the 3.6L engines and mufflers were 2002 - 2004 (2005 for the C4 & C4S). One way to tell from looking at a pic of the mufflers is that the 3.6L mufflers have the "accordion" pipe coming from the cats, while the 3.4L mufflers have a straight pipe coming from the cat. The pic below shows a 3.4L muffler on the left and a 3.6L muffler on the right.

I think you'll find that the availability of the take-offs come and go. I've been following this thread since it started...even before I had mine done, and I put ads out on the WTB boards trying to find a set. I couldn't find anyone who had a set they'd be willing to part with. It seems that for a while there will be other Rennlisters who pop up and offer theirs...or they show up on eBay, then there will be a dry spell. You just have to be patient and keep checking the various sites. I finally found mine on eBay for $100....but you also have to be careful because some of the dismantlers out there have caught on that these mufflers are being sought after...and they've jacked up the prices on them. They're out there...just be patient and you'll get a set...just like what just happened here with Alphahunter.

I just dropped my mufflers off at the shop. I am going with 2.25 Stainless. They are only charging me $60 for the mod and $80 to install. Thats $390 for everything! Not bad! Should be ready to go and on by Monday. I will post updates.

Dustin: There you are....you already have Carrera Mike responding to you. Alphahunter found his right off the bat..... The 3.6L variety are out there, you just need to be patient.....you will get a set.

Mike

Tim, Any bites on the Lapis Blue? If you sell you still have to be on this site!

No, not a single inquiry, which puzzles me a bit! I don't think my price is too high. I searched AutoTrader and Cars.com for 2004 996 within 300 miles of my Zip, and every car, except 1, was priced higher than my car, and most of them are $5k to $8k higher than mine. Thanks for the kind words! I'm planning to stick around here for a while.

Tim, the Gods of Porsche are shielding your car from buyers..... You have been blessed with P-ownership for life.

I know I've posted this picture before, but this is what the 3.6L mufflers look like after they've been modded with the 2 1/4 inch stainless steel piping. If you put these mufflers up against a PSE muffler, they'll look exactly the same except for the vacuum operated valve that opens/closes the bypass to increase/decrease the volume of the muffler. I put my car next to Loren's (RennTech) and they are almost exactly the same, except that Loren's was a bit deeper when he fired it up and it idled...other than that, at 3500-4500 they roar about the same...and when you really get on it....there's no distinction. Loren is running PSE wide open without the dash mounted switch. I hope these pictures will show enough detail for you.

Nice welds!

Anyone in SoCal need a pair of 3.6L cans from a car w/ only 11k miles? Let me know... they're sitting in my garage and I think it's time for spring cleaning. PM me if interested. WILL NOT SHIP, pickup only.

Okay, so this is what I am worried about. I was under the impresion that it sounds the same all around but I could imagine that at idle and start up it doesn't sound the same. Am I correct? And If I am correct then I heard from a friend that carnewal has these pre-modded exhausts that they take all the guts (the chambers) out of and then put the bypass pipe on. Only issue is I haven't heard of anyone talking about it. Any inputs? I am trying to find the best match to the PSE with the valve open, it is a little more for the carnewal one and I was told that it is better. SO...What do you guys think?

Worried? I can't see that there's much to worry about. I haven't heard of a single person who's done the MKII mods that have not liked them. All these explanations about how something sounds are subjectvie at best...I think you're over complicating this whole thing. If you're worried about the sound...then spend the $1500 for PSE and get it right. Otherwise, take the advice and suggestions from a whole lot of folks who have done this mod and just do it. Your total outlay for a set of MKII mods will be around $250-300 depending upon how much the 3.6L mufflers end up costing you. If you want to throw the Carnewal mufflers into the mix...I can't help you because I've never heard them, and no one in this discussion thread has addressed them either. Just makes it more complicated. Better still....find someone who has the MKII mods who lives in your area and go listen to them. I can tell you with 95% confidence that you'll like what you hear. This thread has gone for 11 pages...more than enough for you to go back and read about the different mods and make up your mind.

+1 Chuck. I did the mod myself on my '02 C4S. Don't know where you sit, shay2n10, but if you're in southeastern PA you're welcome to hear it for yourself.

I just picked up a set of 3.6 cans on ebay for $20.50... lol I have PSE, but I have an annoying rattle that I think is either something loose in cats or exhaust so if its exhaust I have super cheap fix.

You're absolutely correct Chuck, and I always think too much about these things. But I was set to go until my buddy had told me that the carnewal modded exhaust sound more like the PSE. And you know what comes after that..."Trust Me"! In which I do, but as you said its all subjective. I have been PM'ed by a fellow rennlister who is also truly helpful and is willing to sell me the ones he got from someone else at the same price and I think I will just do the MKII. Although, If I got the carnewal moded exhaust I might take the hit as an experiment and report back my results. Is anyone in the Los Angeles vicinity that has either of the mods so I can here the MKII mod as Chuck suggested?

I have the MKII on the 3.6L cans on my 02 C4S... you can listen to them this weekend and hear for yourself. You will NOT be disappointed.

Shay: Why....with all these recommendations and kudos for the MKII....are you going to "take the hit as an experiment"? You have countless guys here all telling you that you won't be disappointed with the MKII...and you're considering an "experiment"? I sincerely hope your experiment comes out to your satisfaction. I think if you and Arnee get together your mind will be made up.

I just got back from the exhaust shop. They went with a 2" cut out in the hole using 2.25 Stainless Steel pipe. They used a plasma cutter to cut the hole. To do the mods and install was only $168.00! So total bill was $418.00 for everything! The sound is much much better and with the new Schnell CAI you can tell a difference in throttle response. I love it! Thanks for all the advice! A special thanks to Tim (gotta911) for giving me the idea! Thanks Tim!

I'm getting with Arnee tonight? Just thought maybe I can be famous for taking it a step farther! Okay fine, I'll stay with security of fame. Thanks for the heads up.

Arnee is the guy that said you could listen to his car.

You are welcome!

I'm finding that the MKII mod of the 3.6 mufflers....is getting louder as time goes by. Driving in the neighborhood, I usually have to keep it under 3000 rpm otherwise it becomes "noticeable". Anyone else notice an increase in the sound levels?

Chuck, cant speak for the MKII's but my MKI's seem to be louder than when I first made them, I think it is our minds playing tricks.

It's called old age.

I didnt think it was that loud after the install yesterday. I guess because I am use to my Mustang with offroad H pipe and Flowmaster dual chamber 40's. LOL!!!

I'm 29, does your mind start to go at this age?

I'm 34 and yes it does. LOL!!!

Thanks Arnie! You hooked it up!

OK, I am brand new on this site today..I have a 99 c2 cab recently purchased and the first thing I thought was this stock exhuast is tooo mild. I have read all 12 pages and I am sold!! I need a set of 3.6s soon. I know everyone is looking for them but maybe I will be the lucky one..have been before. I live in a small town (Beaumont) outside of Houston

I'm the same age a month from now and all this time, I thought my birthday was this month, not next month... so yes, I believe our minds start to go at this age. But I did notice that the exhaust got quieter. I want something louder.

Just do the 3.4 mod with the direct bypass pipes to the tail pipe inlet (bypassing the muffler) That mod sounds great, and you already have the cans!

From everything I read here, everyone says that the 3.6 are really the better choice if I am going to the trouble of modding. So I think I will continue to look for 3.6 cans. If anyone has some they need to get out of their garage....or intrested in selling, I 'mready to help.

I have that on my 99 996 i like the way it sounds

Are you refering to the pic...you have or had that on your 996 or 3.6 cans...because I think those in the pic are larger than 3.6 and I am sure I would like the way those and the 3.6 might sound on my 996

Amen Brother! LOL!

NO THE ONE'S IN THE PIC SOUND BETTER THEN 3.6 cans and the one's on my 996

I guess all I can say is NICE HOOD BADGE!!!!!!! Please tell me that is you are she is a friend of yours and that she had just come from a long hot ride in the 996 cab...that is why she looks all sweaty...lol

Alphahunter I like the pic of your cab but I like the color of oshin951's cab better...they are both cabs according to the pic

I think she has a clear bra!

Maybe...but now back to the real reason...I am looking for 3.6s to mod...I checked ebay..no luck any other suggestions on where to find a good pair?

oshin951's avatar looks like a good pair to me!

Those appear to be 850 double pumpers!!!

Pirate: Sorry...the guys got a bit distracted and off subject...it happens quite a bit...especially to the older guys....but reference your question on where to get the 3.6L mufflers....put an ad (you have to be a paying member to do some of this) on the WTB section...also on RennTech, and put a search routine into eBay that will alert you to anything that has anything to do with "Porsche mufflers". I saw a guy on Rennlist just the other day who said he had a set of the 3.6L mufflers....another Rennlister just got a pair off eBay for under $30!! I paid $100 for mine off eBay...so they're out there and you will definitely get a set, you just have to be looking and alert.

Arnee, your muffler shop guy said to use Aluminzed tubing. I think that is what they used on yours. The different places that I asked said it is the same thing. In fact they said it is better because it doesn't rust or corode. It has the exact same dimensions and thickness as the pipes that Darin (Fister D) reffered me to get at Burns. Any input?

I still looking to see if any one has a good set of 3.6's they would like to part with...anyone?

Man I love mine!!!! Sounds like an exotic should! Turns heads in a good way! Best mod out for the $$$$$! Thanks guys! Not too quiet, not too loud, just right!

More pics of the avatar! LOL!!!

Had my 3.6L mkII modded mufflers put on today. Took her for another spin tonight and the sounds is NICE!!! I like it a lot. Nice and normal sound level at normal crusing rpm and LOUD when you push down on the accelerator. I drove through a bridge on the way home and floored it. WOW, what a sound! I even surprised myself with the roar from my car. I've listened to the PSE many times before and I would be hard pressed to tell any difference at all. If you factor in the price difference ($2000+ cheaper) then I think it's an absolute no-brainer.

took you long enough, Matt!

hahaha, I know. I think I hold the record for slowest install of MKII mufflers. A complete re-landscaping of the yard took up all my time. I severly underestimated the complexity of that project. Add in a few business trips abroad and a vacation for three weeks and voila...it never gets done.

Swede: Glad to see you finally took the plunge....now, after it's all over and done with, it's good to see you so pleased with the results....it amazes me that with all the guys on this forum giving their thumbs up for this mod....that there are still some folks who keep wondering if it's a good move. For the money and the results (fantastic sound) it is really one of the best mods you can do....certainly one of the cheapest provided you can pick up the 3.6 mufflers at a decent price. I think they are actually a bit louder if you install the CAI too...mine seem to be getting louder as time goes by. Did you have Darin put them in?

Chuck: I'm glad I did it too. Don't regret it at all. I was hesitant but now I can completely agree with you. It cost me a grand total of $350 to get it done and installed. Compared to what the PSE costs this is a steal! Love the sound. I took her out for another drive tonight and the only complaint I can come up with is that it increases the risk of a speeding ticket. I just keep revving to hear that lovely sound Darin did the mod for me. Great workmanship. When you see some of the pics that have been posted you really appreciate the excellent work from Darin. Nice clean welds. I had Sharkwerks put on the mufflers for me. Not that far from where I live and another Rennlist recommendation that turned out great. Alex was super helpful and it was fun to see his shop and white beast. Unfortunately I found out that my car has an RMS leak now....fortunately I have CPO so I'm booking a time to get it fixed asap. New clutch is part of the plan as well.

btw...Big thanks to Chuck and Tim for convincing me to do the mkII mod. You guys rock!

Swede: This is a prime example of the forum's sort of "pass-it-on"....Tim got on me and convinced me to do it....then Tim and I got on you....now you can add your name to the list of "satisfied customers" and help convince another Rennlister .....there's getting to be quite a list of happy MKII mod folks out there. As far as I'm concerned, the small contribution I made to become a member on this forum has paid for itself many many times over.

Matt - you are welcome! I guess you didn't really trust us much 'cuz it took you so long to do it. (I read you earlier post about landscaping, work, vacation...) Just bustin' your chops a little!

... or has actually cost you 1,000 X that amount!

Actually, I hadn't thought about it in that light...but you're right!! But it was so much fun doing it!!

I have yet to find the 3.6 cans I need but there is a set of Cargraphics on ebay at a descent price...I know nothing about them. Anyone out there that can help? I have looked at the web site but not much info there. I am still looking for the 3.6 ...I hate the way my car sounds and reading about all the satisfaction of the mod just makes me jealous...NOW IN A HURRY to hear the sweet roar

http://www.cargraphic.de/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVyLkgD_55M The quality is good. I only heard it on a 996 TT

Well 14 pages of reading with great input and pictures. So thanks to everyone sharing. I have found a set of 3.6 mufflers, should get them next week. My cousin-in-law owns a muffler shop so no problem getting the mod done, and probably FREE So to understand this correctly, as my cousin hasn't done this mod but I will take pictures with me and the car: 1. Cut hole in plug area (size 1.5") 2. Weld in SS 2.25" pipe as shown in pictures. That's it right? I will let you know how things go and my own personal feelings of this mod.

You are going to LOVE the sound!

Steve! Way to go! You will like! PS You are correct. go with the 2.25 Stainless pipe

Steve Where did you find the 3.6 cans. Was it on this site or ebay or?

anyone want to sell their 3.6 cans for my bypass mod on my 1999 996? please message me at: [email removed] thanks bob

I am still looking for a set of 3.6 to mod

I installed a modified stock muffler for my 02 996. Thanks to OrientExpress for donating his stock muffler so I don't have any downtime. I used 2.25 pipe. I was surprised how quiet it was compared to stock. Not much change in sound below 3k rpm. Above 3k, the noise is a little more obvious, maybe 15-20% louder and slightly more transparent. Honestly, I was a little disappointed at the result. Even though I didn't pay much ($100 and 2 hrs of my time for install), I would not have bothered since I was happy with stock. If anyone is thinking of upgrading, I'd opt for real PSE or go with a nice aftermarket. Just my opinion. I know there are a lot of people who have done it and liked it. I heard real PSE and this mod is definitely not close to the same sound.

You must not have done it right....or maybe you used the 3.4L muffler, or did you do the MKI mod because there is a big chorus of guys on this forum who will tell you that the MKII mod for the 3.6L mufflers is an awesome sound....much louder than stock especially above 3500 rpm. When I drive thru my neighborhood, I usually keep it below 3000 just so I don't irritate the neighbors..

It sounds just like the PSE for the most part. Just doesnt have the switch to turn off and on. Mine is a lot louder. I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think there is a way to mess it up. A pipe is welded from one to the other i mean.... Unless the muffler shop didn't make a cut out big enough, I don't know what could be wrong. They have done a few and seem to be competent. The muffler is definitely out of a 3.6L and the mod is done as described. I've actually sat in both another 3.6L PSE hacked car as well as real 3.6L PSE. I think it's consistent with what I've heard. Anyhow, just wanted to share my experience with you. I don't doubt what you've read or experienced. I was just surprised how little difference there is.

FWIW, I can attest to the fact that the MkII mod on 3.4 cans does NOT work.

+1 on the fact that the MK II mod on 3.4L cans does not do much to the sound. However, the MK I mod on 3.4L cans should get a good sound.

Yeh, I guess that's my next plan of action. It's a pain in my *** that my factory PSE can failed after only 3 years/ 20k miles.

djantlive, clearly not done as most of us have done it on the 02+ cans. the issue here would be what sizes are the holes cut into the can, did they make both 1.5 inches or larger. properly done there is alot more low frequency rumble (noticible at idle easily) and higher end raspiness. I don't trust shops for much unless I can watch them do it, so I just did it myself.

Here's a picture of the actual size of the hole I had cut into the muffler. As you can see, the hole is almost the size of the 2 1/4 inch stainless pipe...I think Darin actually just cut off the entire cap from the muffler....so if yours was a smaller hole, it might have affected the sound and detracted from the full potential of the modification. I'll bet that what happened is that your mufflers folks wanted to leave enough room around the rim to weld the pipe to, so they made the hole smaller, possibly on both ends....that's a mistake....have them re-do it and make the hole almost the same size as the pipe. Don't waste a good set of 3.6L mufflers!! If they're good welders, they can match up the hole so it's about the same size as the pipe....then I'd almost guarantee you'll get what you're looking (listening) for. Chuck

maybe that's what happened but i'm not going to redo it. Too much work to do it again. I'll have to compare it with one's 02-04 996 side by side some day.

Quieter than stock??

Update: Mufflers are on the FedEx truck. Scheduled for delivery on 7/10. I am hoping to get the mod done and mufflers installed next week or on the weekend. Will keep everyone posted...very much looking forward to the results. Chuck, I am going to have Darin do the mod even though my cousin-in-law has the muffler shop. I trust Darin's knowledge for the mod part and have already made contact with him, thanks for the great pictures and feedback on Darin's work, it was what made my decision on who will do this mod. I will have my cousin-in-law install the mufflers at his shop though as he has a lift. I am hoping to do a before and after video w/sound and will post them along with my personal input on the change.

speedemon: After you get them installed....let's get together in Rio Vista like we discussed earlier....have lunch and you can see what the various mods do or don't do.

absolutely Chuck. Planning on installing the aluminium pedals tonight, and hoping to do the 3.6 mufflers by the following weekend. So maybe the 15th, how does that look for you? or maybe the 22nd? mate

Steve, Did you get a CAI?

Not yet but I am about too, but do you know the Part Number of the filter? I already have the CAI in the cart but it doesn't mention which filter to get with it.

Speed: That would work for me...but let's wait till you have Darin do your mufflers for you. I kid you not...that's probably one of the cheapest and most satisfying mod you can buy. You'll have a smile on your face all the way home....keep in touch....we'll get it together. BTW...you realize that those aluminum pedals will add a good 7HP to the rear wheels...

Oh crap, then I must have installed my pedals backwards, 'cuz I got an additional 7HP on the front wheels of my C2!

Gota: How do you expect to sell that car when you screw up all the mods on it like you just did?

Damn, I guess I shouldn't have posted that here, huh?

Gosh Tim the pedals go in the front........

Call and place the order and they will give you the right filter.

Oh, man, I thought they were like "backing plates" and needed to be mounted "behind" the OEM pedals! No wonder it took me 14 hours to install them!

Thats funny!

That's really interesting Tim....I'm sure that's the correct way of doing it.....I think you're right....they are backing plates!! What other mods have you done to your car? I'd like to see how you installed the Cool Air Induction system....did you roof mount the cone filter to maximize intake?

Nah, the roof mount for the Cool Air Intake looks tacky. I did the hood scoop! I am really glad you asked what other mods I have done. I just got the car back from the paint shop. Since I plan to do a little "off roading" in her, I had to do a few custom mods. 1. Installed 13" wheels 2. Installed big rubber to absorb the rock impacts better 3. Raised her up by 10" 4. Installed the Quad Light bar above the windshield 5. Installed the hood scoop for the Cool Air Intake (I went with the smaller hood scoop because I didn't want it to be too ostentatious) 6. Installed some side pipe mufflers 7. Custom paint job. Here are the "before" and "after" pics. What do you think? Pretty neat, huh?

Wow Tim! I'm drooling and impressed! I bet you will beat the crap out of a Cayenne Turbo offroad...

That thing got a Hemi?

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That reminds me of the Porsche in the movie "Bachelor Party". LOL!!!

Tim: I'm sitting here at 1:05AM laughing my *** off. You made my whole night for me!! This is the best laugh I've had in a long time...but you've got a great sense of humor.

I have been awaiting your response to my "mods." I thought you would get a good "Chuck-le" out of that one! For some reason it doesn't corner as well as it used to corner. It must be the flames which are causing the imbalance!

Wait no more. Speed Demon dropped off the goods yesterday, and I returned them to him today, all modded-up. He is going to have his cousin-in-law install them tomorrow. What a gorgeous car he has. That speed yellow with the aerokit is simply stunning! Now, it will sound as good as it looks!

Darin, thanks so much for doing the mod so fast and it looks great Yes everyone I will do the muffler swap tomorrow and will put an update on here ASAP once I stop driving the car A big thanks goes out to 'lamesacarrera' (aka Jason) for hooking me up with the mufflers which came of his car. Jason you are the man

Geezzz Speed....nothing like dragging this whole scenario out.....you should have been a movie director building up the suspense.....for the MOD MONSTER! Now you, me, and Darin can get together and compare notes....Darin has a 993 IIRC...??

Congrats Steve! Cant wait to see the vid!

Steve, Can't wait to hear the review! They look great, I'm glad you're pleased. I sure wish I knew about this mod before I got my PSE mufflers.

Well the mufflers have been installed, pretty straight forward but having a lift really helped. I can hear a difference and I like it , much deeper sound but not obnoxious. A bit late for me to do a vid though, so that will be done tomorrow. So I will have a link to a vid pre 3.6 and a link to a vid post 3.6., I know making you wait even more But I did have the tips changed out and wanted to post pics of that to see what you thought:

Beautiful Steven. I must say you have impeccable taste. Very muscular look yet subtle and stylish. Those tips must add at least 15hp right?

Well, since you asked for opinions about the exhaust tips, IMO, they stick out too far. Personally, I don't like the look. Please understand that I am not trying trying to flame you here. Also, I can foresee the possibility of them getting scraped (or worse) if you have to drive into/out of a very steep driveway. That happened to me once when I pulled into a client's driveway, and I have stock tips that don't stick out nearly that far. However, if YOU like them, keep them. F#*k what anyone else thinks.

+1 with what Tim said. Those tips are about 6" too long IMHO.

I'd also worry about people's shins getting singed/burnt as they are walking around the back of the car and accidently hitting the tip...seem like they stick out a little too far!!!

OK this was just a joke, I can't hold out any longer I have my original tips that I had before on the new mufflers so don't worry. My cousin-in-law owns the muffler shop that did all the work and so we looked around for a 'flower pot' tip, found a huge diesel tip about 10" in diameter 15" long that shrunk towards the pipe end but would not fit over my tips, so we found this one and wanted to play with your heads. Seems those that responded thought I was serious about the change So don't worry about the new tips in the pics, they are not on the car Now for my verbal bashing right

That was a good one! I must say that when I first saw the tips, I thought "WTF is he thinking? Those tips look like ****!" Plus they are not nearly as classy as my 'Vette side pipes!

Yeah those side-pipes are kick **** buddy, but if I could have gotten a pic with the diesel tip on it would have been good competition for you Oh...when we did this a customer drove up and said 'that f'ing looks killer with that tip on there' we just lauged

I knew you were kidding. You're Brittish so I'm sure you noticed how my post was dripping with sarcasm.

You had me too , Steven...I was like "WTF"?! When are you coming by to let me hear those bad boys? What's up Matt? Still enjoying the muffs?

Hey Darin, I just had them put on 2 weeks ago....I know, I'm slow! Like them a lot. When they pulled away in my car at the dealership to take it in for service, the sound was amazing. I had a smile from ear to ear when I heard it. Thanks a million for your help to get them done Darin. When are you coming down to Santana Row for one of the Saturday morning meetings? You should team up with Steven on 7/21 and come down.

Oh yes I noticed Matt

About to go outside and video the new sound, been busy with work today and I have a lot more work to do so I am hoping to get them both posted today, we shall see. Thanks again Darin.

Yeah Darin I am suppose to hook-up with some others from 6speed in Brentwood then in Dublin then on we go to San Jose, on 7/21. Let me know if interested, I know we are meeting up with Chuck on 7/22 in Rio Vista too.

OK I have posted vids (good size vids so give it time - sucks if you have dial-up) Please excuse my amateur video with audio, I am using a Canon camera and it has been very windy out my way for the last few days. Here is the Pre 3.6L video: Pre Here is the Post 3.6L video: Post From within the car with the windows down and the 'Death Metal' music on mute, I can definately tell the difference. I believe it will change even more as I drive the car as the mufflers had very few miles on them. Oh Chuck, tunnels are definately a great place to hear them roar So for $300 ($100 for the mufflers, $50 for shipping them, $150 for the mod, and 2 cases of Coors - for my cousin-in-law) it was a well worth investment. Now my car sounds as good as it looks

Good example of the difference in sound. Inside the cabin it's subtle until you hit the accelarator. Outside you can definately tell the difference. I heard my car being driven away by someone else and it sounds NICE!! Made me a proud daddy to hear her roar like that.

Steven - Nice vids! We told you that you would love them!

Steven: All I have to say is .....FINALLY!!.....I see Darin did his usualy pristine welding job...and now when we get together on the 22nd we can compare. I think you'll find that as time goes by, the sound actually gets a bit deeper and more robust....and of course; more satisfying. So...for all you guys out there who are going thru what Steven did at the start....should I...shouldn't I...well maybe...but how is it going to sound.....here's another example of a totally satisfied customer for a mod that cost under $300 but will bring a $1000 worth of satisfaction. We can all thank that mod pimp Gota911 who hawked this mod way back when.

Hee hee... and I have a few other tricks up my sleeve......! Not really, but it sounded good!

Steven: God I'm glad you were kidding about those tips....after all the back and forth about the mod and you came out with those....all I could think of is.....I hope he's buying lunch so I can be nice to him.

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Sounds good! I love mine! Did you get the cai? it will make it sound deeper.

Knew you would like the tips Chuck

Not yet, need to sell a couple more things on eBay to finance that upgrade. I will keep you posted on it though.

For the sheer hell of it, I did this modification to my 997 S mufflers - Bigger bark on start up - Closer to a 993 exhaust note when cold - Barks at quick throttle inputs - Only minimally louder for normal driving - At high RPM it now has a Carrera Cup Car like wail to it .

Nice and thanks for sharing. So it sounds like now the 997 people can do this mod.

what I forgot to say is...... the muffler mod is not as loud as the PSE I have on our other 997S Silly question: is the PSE on the 996's active ? ie: the butterflies open and close through the rev range ? They do on the 997 I disabled the electronic activation ..... PHOAR ...LOUD>>>LOUD>>>LOUD

Yes they are. However the mid-range "quiet mode" on factory installed 996 PSe can be eliminated by cutting a diode in a control module. Similar to unplugging your red/orange plug in the engine compartment.

gota911 ....thank you

You are welcome! BTW - that is a nice stable of cars you currently own and have previously owned. Do you have any pics you can share with the rest of us? I know a lot of guys would love to see them.

Here are a few pics that I could find on short notice: 993TT#1 SL500 Boxster 2.5 993TT #2 356A speedster Boxster S 996 GT3mkI clubsport 356A #1 XJR100 575M Bentley CGT 997S 996TT 356A #2 Hi Everyone, my name is Paul. ....and it has been 105 days since I bought a Porsche.... .

Hello Paul, Welcome to Porsche-holics Anonymous! Nice pics. Thanks for sharing. Great fleet of cars. I was glad to see a little "color" on the 356 A#1. I was starting to think you had posted all black & white pics! BTW Paul, we CAN help you overcome your aversion to color!

LOL I had many years of silver only cars ! Even black is "cutting loose" for me

We can help push you "over the edge" by getting you into a Guards Red or a Speed Yellow 997 variant of your choice!

I think the 575M gave me a big enough dose of red. .....would still have 993TT #2 now had I not fallen for the redheaded italian beauty

Love the stable of cars you have there Q (past and present)...I agree with Tim (there I go again Tim, agreeing with you...lol), but add some more colour to your pallette, I am partial to Speed Yellow myself

I must admit, I did fall in love with a speed yellow car this year ! THIS CAR

But you didn't pull the trigger on it I am guessing. That is one nice car, the interior is sweet. Thought about doing that to mine but mine is a 1999 C2 and so I do not want to make it more than what it is, don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with a C2, but I rather have a GT3 or TT with the splashes of colour I believe it is more respected then (IMHO).

no, quite the opposite...I was asked to sell it for the owner... but she was beautiful

I can see why you fell in love with that one. After all, what's not to like?

Can you post a vid?

Steering wheel is totally on the wrong side of the car.

The camera I use to make .mpgs on was stolen in Milan I will try with my Nokia phone....

Cool!

Did you lower the TT with the Techarts?

yes, we dropped it just over an inch

You have good taste!

I just wanted to add a small note since I have done this change. My idle as smoothed out. Before it would fluctuate between 600~700, now it stays at 700. In fact sometimes before the change the idle would dip way down then back up again, but this was intermittent and no codes were found. if I ran the A/C it bumped the idle up to 800 and no idle issues occured. With that said, it doesn't mean that I will get in the car tomorrow and not have the idle fluctuate again, but the times I have driven it since the mod I have not noticed it and before it would of happened by now.

when you do the MKII exhaust mod to a 3.6 can and install on a 3.4 do you have to reset or do anything to computer ?

No. You will only need to move the brackets from the 3.4 cans to the 3.6 cans for them to fit, that's it and enjoy

Steven that sounds awesome...got mine welded today with 2.125 inch pips and getting installed tomorrow...any tips on the install as far as disconnecting battery or anything i should do ? Thanks Bernie

What brackets?

sorry for the duplicate post my bad...thanks. also contemplating a K&N Cold Air Intake as well

Bernie: First I'm glad to read that you got the mufflers o.k. and that you are already modding them. I would not recommend the K&N intake based on the comments I heave read here. On my previous C4S I installed the evoms V-flow air intake and the combination of the exhaust with the air intake sounds awesome!!

Nothing needs to be disconnected, you are only replacing the mufflers.

Below is a picture of a 3.6 on the left and 3.4 on the right. You will see that the bracket is the same except for the bolt pattern.

Oh, I remember.

hey manny thanks for everything bro

The bolt pattern for the brackets off the 3.6L cans are different than the patterns for the 3.4 cans. You need to trade the brackets off the 3.6 for yours off your stock mufflers....that's the only thing that has to be done. You might have a bit of trouble trying to get the exhaust tips to line up and match....that was the most difficult part of the whole dogone thing.

Chuck, I dropped by the muffler shop near me today, with the pics of Darin working on your cans. I was told they can't bend stainless pipes, so I will have to get them from Burns as you did. They are charging me $158 to do the welding alone, I will remove the cans and bring them to the shop. Here are 2 part numbers I picked out from the 304 stainless U-bends on www.burnsstainless.com . They have 6" legs (is that enough?) Also, why is the thicker 16gauge cheaper than the thinner 18gauge? Which one should I get? 2-1/4" 6x6" Legs - 3.11 lbs - UB-225-40-16-304 ... $56.00 2-1/4" 6x6" Legs - 2.36 lbs - UB-225-40-18-304 ... $64.95 Thanks!

Cos - did you get a different set of mufflers or are you modding your own mufflers? If you are using your own mufflers, you do not have to remove the tips. That will save you some time. BTW - $158 for the welding????? WTF!!!! For that price make sure they give you a "reach around" while they have you bent over! The guy at the Meineke Muffler Shop near me welded the pipes on my mufflers for $60, and that included the pipe. Try another shop.

LOL!!!! I agree!

Wow $156 just for welding. Darin does it for $150 including the pipe so you are about to get ripped a new one I would touch base with Darin (FisterD) and ask him about the length and thickness as what to get. I would go with thicker, but Darin will know for sure. As for why the thicker is cheaper, maybe because more SS pipe is made in 16-gauge as it is more commonly used, just a guess. Keep us posted on your mod progress

I use the 16 gauge from Burns. Make sure they are using stainless to weld it with, and make sure they cut the hole big enough in the existing pipe for maximum flow. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Geez...Thanks Guys! I'm glad I asked! So I'm off to another shop for quotes... that would be 35miles away. Yes Tim, I thought about keeping the tips on too, thanks. Thank you for the confirmation, Darin. I'll get the 16 gauge. But the 6" legs are enough, right? 6" sounds kinda short but you never know...

well ladies and gentlemen...just finished getting my 1st mod done. it was the best $260.00 i ever spent. picked up a pair of 3.6 cans from member manny_g (THANKS BRO) for $210.00 shipped and promptly i might ad. and had them welded up and installed for $50.00 at a local garage. in the 2 miles i drove it im ecstatic !! now it sounds like it outta from the factory...thanks again to all those that took the time to come up with this mod and all those that answered any of my not so bright questions (THE SPEED DEMON)

Awesome and we knew you would like it, and yes it is the best sounding mod for the price you can do You beat my final price by $40 but you got a killer deal on the welding and install. But I am wondering if they used SS pipe or standard exhaust pipe, I am thinking standard exhaust pipe. It really won't matter unless you live in a very moist part of the country and drive it in the rain, welds tend to rust. That is why using SS weld and SS pipe is best as the mufflers are SS. Oh and your welcome, glad I could be of assistance

unsure if they used stainless or not, but they did give'um a nice coat of some kind of galvanized heat paint so im sure it isnt stainless. i rarely keep cars more then 24 months and if i do keep her longer and they start to rust...i'll buy another set of cans and MAKE SURE THERE done in stainless...

next is either a cold air intake or just a k&n filter, a nav head unit and some replacement speakers, and some 18" wheels with a black centers and a polished lip...

Hi, I just wanted to add that I also did the 3.6L MK II mod, my car is a 99 and I got it used, I looked under the car and bam, I already had the 3.6 mufflers in there (it has the accordian thing)...so after two weeks of searching, i already had them in my car!!! took it to "muffler man" paid him 100 dollars and he put on SS pipes. Took it home and installed them, they are the best 100 dollars spent yet!!! as a side note, since I had the mufflers off the car, i decided to change the spark plugs also, two birds with one stone!! Thank you all for the help and big thumbs up on the creator of the mod!

Sweet you had the 3.6 cans already...wonder why the previous owner changed them out to the 3.6's. So I wonder how many people have done the MKII Mod now ?

maybe previous owner changed them for better sound and didnt know about the mod

Bernie: Glad to read that you got the mod done so quickly. This stuff is addicting isnt it...Enjoy them in good health.

Now you're starting to sound like my wife. She tells me the same thing all the time!

Tim, whenever a woman complains of insufficient length, You jump to defence by blaming it on her butt which is fat and obstructing and taking up some otherwise useful inches. That usually ends the discussion....OR start a new one... So say it at your own risk

Man, I would NEVER, EVER go down that path! I may not be the brightest bulb in the marquee, but I'm not stupid!

yeah i was wondering why the original owner had 3.6L cans in there, that why i wanted to know who you would be able to tell a 3.4L engine from a 3.6L engine....(maybe i have a 3.6L engine in my car???that would be so great!!!) hahah

If you do have a 3.6L let us know

YooHoooo!!! Look what UPS brought me today! I put it to my ear and I swear I could hear it ROAR! And yeah, it's for that car on the screen! I gotta find another exhaust shop though..... you guys said that shop I went to tried to rip me off at $158 for welding alone.

That's the stuff!

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And THANKS to you, for your guidance!

Okay guys I finally did it! Thanks to a fellow rennlister I found a PSE for more than double what I paid for my MKII, but hell, I had to do it! I love the MKII and who ever though of this is a freakin genius! So as I promised Arnie who I bought my stock cans from I will be selling them to another rennlister for the same amount as I paid for everything. So if anyone is interested in shortcutting the system let me know. I also have an extra mandrel bent bypass pipe that I got just in case from the shop. So I would be willing to sell that also. If anyone needs either one let me know. If I don't really get a response I am going to try my luck on eBay or something so let me know. I will also post pics of when it was being modded. By the way, Robin Sun, the creator of the RSR exhaust for carnewal is the person who did the mod for me and he did one hell of an amazing job. It was welded with a TIG welder and a he cut a pretty nice size hole with a plasma cutter. (With all do respect to the modding master FisterD) Oh yeah! I almost forgot, if you live in the LA area you can come hear it at anytime. It's on my car right now and it sounds pretty good! (It sounds amazing for the money, I'll tell you that much!)

I am very intrested. I have ben looking for a while. Cost ? Are they in good shape? any resonance? I live in texas on the gulf coast. I will pay for shipping if you are willing. Let me know.

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No offense taken. Robin is a great guy that does great work. that pic looks familiar.

Wow! Those are good quality welds, very clean. I did mine today, but it was too late when I got them home, past 8pm. Will have to wait till tomorrow to take some pics and install them on the car, I can't wait! Long story, I started the day going places to several welders, all 3 places quoted me +/- $200. WTF??? Is it where I live?? It's not even a city here! So I ended up going back to the guy who originally 'tried to rip me off'. He's a nice guy btw, with a poor memory, so I asked..."so how much are you charging me? $120?" (He quoted me $158 previously) He goes, "Well, that's the most I'd charge you...could be less". (I was like, "Dang! I should have asked $100 if I knew!") So anyway, he was busy all day, and only started on them when he closed shop. I was there waiting and watching him, he took a whole 2 hours. Finished product is "OK", nothing like Darin's. I told him, and I asked him to use stainless steel to weld, he said "Yes, it's (*something) alloy". The weld doesn't look like stainless to me...but I dunno...he probably doesn't have stainless?? Or maybe it was? Anyway, it's all done and over.

Shay2N10, I'd like to be second in line behind 911pirate, if you're still looking to unload the MkII modded mufflers. Also located in L.A. so it'd be a quick and painless transaction. And if the mufflers do go, I may be interested in the bent pipe to mod my own.

HAH! Got the modded cans back on this afternoon! I'm working on the before and after video clips now, when I'm done, I'll post them in a new thread.

So guys, let me see if I understand right, If I take my 2002 996 C2 to a muffler shop, show him these pics, before and after, they should be able to do this in their shop per your outline, no problem right? thanks.

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Not necessarily, you want to have it done right. So you can shop around for a muffler place that has SS stock pipe, and can weld SS and do this mod correctly. Or you can find a muffler place that can do the SS welding and you buy the SS pipe. Or you can get in contact with Darin (FisterD) so that he can mod your existing mufflers. All you need to do is remove them, get them over to Darin (Knightson out by Oakley and Brentwood)), pick them back up, and install them. They are easy to remove and install (see other posts in this thread). Let me know how I can help out.

Agree with S Demon....you can take them to a muffler shop and show them the pics...but few if any of the shops will have the stainless steel U pipe to cut....and they'll all tell you they can't put a mandrel bend into 2 1/4 inch stainless if they even have it....then there's the issue of whether they'll weld it up with stainless or just use welding rod...then there's the issue of how surgical they are and whether it will end up looking like the first class project in Welding 1 A. Since you live in the Bay area....just take them to Darin...he's done a bunch of these by now.....I was his first client and he did a beautiful job....his technique just gets better with each one. He also gets the SS pipe so you don't have to hunt around for it.

I actually have a set ready to go, if someone would like to exchange.

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Darin, I having nothing to exchange but I am hoping to purchase, Shay2N10 put a notice out a few days ago and I responded just haven't heard anything. If you are intrested in selling them I am very intrested in purchasing a set

Sorry I was in San Diego this past weekend and it was hard for me to check rennlist. But thanks for the responses. I will pm everybody today. Also, I still have two extra mandrel bent pipe perfect for the job if anyone want to buy it.

Oh yeah, just keep in mind that you can technically take it to any shop to do but the better the work is the better and closer it sounds to the PSE. A lot of these shops will do sloppy work and use a MIG welder and G-D knows how they take the cap off. I believe that Fister knows his stuff really well. So with that being said, if you are in the Nor Cal area he is the best. If you are in SO Cal then Robin is also really amazing. I wouldn't trust anyone with the actual mod, it doesn't come out the same.

What kind of mod is this what i can see its the MK1 mod on the 3,6 cans ? anyone have this ? http://cgi.ebay.de/Porsche-911-996-S...QQcmdZViewItem //Rob

It's very cheap!!!! But I didn't understand well.... Do you need to send them your used mufflers before? or Are you just purchasing these?

No i dont have to send mine to them...i`m not buying them just looking for 3,6 cans with the MK2 mod....i have find a set of 997 take of cans but i dont know if they will fit 996... and look at this what is this ....? http://cgi.ebay.de/Sportendschalldae...QQcmdZViewItem

I cannot help you in this item. Let's wait to LvDell and the rest of gur�s what they have te say. try to do a search, perhaps you'd find something here and in www.renntech.org

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That is the MKI mod and from what I know that will not give you the sound you are looking for or should get. You need the MKII mod (which I have from Darin). Plus I see they have painted the mufflers black, that is concerning since the mufflers get awfully hot and I would fear having the smell of the paint burning off lingering in and around the car for a while until it is all gone, but then it could stay on and not be a problem, but I have 'never' painted my own mufflers and will never. This ebay seller looks like that they are in the business of modding Porsche mufflers, and probably others, so maybe they just have a set done in MKII.

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Those are not 3.6 mufflers as they do not have the accordian style pipe on it. These definately look like 3.4's and the result of the MKII mod on 3.4's is not what you want. Tests here have shown that this mod is not worth doing on 3.4's compared to 3.6's. I believe there was mention on another thread about 997 (3.8) mufflers on 2.4's and 3.6's, but I am not sure what the answer was to that. So keep looking

I spent a part of the day reading this thread and other similar links. I think I'm going to do the MkII Mod. I have no time for it and as I'll have to make the inspection to the pcar in 2-3 months, I'll get the cans removed and will go to the exhaust shop to do it. My conclusion is that in 3.6L cans, a well done bypass with 2" 1/4 SS in a fine welded work, will be close to PSE in 80%. More or less what I'd like. I drove a 996 C4S with OEM PSE and switch, yesterday and sounds wonderful. I thought It would be higher and a bit disturbing, but I must say that I was wrong: I want it But I have a doubt: Why didn't you get electrical valves installed? If you make a similar instalation to OEM PSE, you could switch off whenever you want. Is it a very diffcult thing? You could keep your original low sound while you were cruising an urban street or similar place to preserve the noise and not disturbing the neighburghood in nighty hours, just clicking the dash button. Did you try to do? Thanks all the guys who posted real and tested info, pics, videos, and helped the others.

Dropped off my 2002 996 C2 to Darin today and he modified the mufflers for me. I had only heard the sound bits on Utube of the different exhaust systems and the PSE. My exhaust sounds great!!! I have to admit I was a little nervous never hearing the PSE live. What if we made the mod and I don't like it? Well, I took the chance. Now I can hear it and it sounds awesome, just right. Sounds as good if not better than the PSE in my opinion! Darin did a quality job and real easy to work with on this. Makes it real simple. He's done many before so he knows what it takes and how to do it properly. Guys or Ladies, if you are planning on getting yours modified, talk to Darin, you won't regret it.

Hey Darin: Do I get a finder's fee for starting all this for you? Taking the lines from one of my favorite movies....Jeremiah Johnson....."Ye've done well Pilgrim" Keep up the good work....you've got it dialed in now. Chuck

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my cousin who's a welder says there are rods for stainless steel that won't rust . I'll probably do this mod but for relief of( a little back pressure) not for just sound. Prefferably i like quite. However 1bar of boost fills up the cans quickly.

Darin only uses Stainless....I've had his mufflers in for about 6 months now and no problems. You have to consider that the mufflers themselves are stainless....the welds are stainless.....how much better does it get?

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...if everything was TITANIUM!

Bill, Great meeting you today. I'm glad you are enjoying the mod! Here is a pic of Bill's beautiful Basalt Black Tippy.............Gorgeous!

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Thanks for everything, Chuck! You know you'll always be my first.......

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Nobody knows?

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Joaquin - Here is a pic of PSE mufflers from the Carnewal site. In order to convert stock (non-PSE) mufflers to work like true PSE mufflers, you would have to: 1. Add a valve (flap) in the "extra" pipe (shown in blue) which could be opened or closed with vacuum pressure. 2. Add actuators (shown in red) to open or close the flap 3. Add vacuum hoses. 4. Add the wiring to control the vacuum "on/off" switch. The bottom line is that it would be just too difficult and costly to do this to stock mufflers. IN the long run, you would be better off getting REAL PSE mufflers if you wanted to be able to control the loud/quiet mode.

Thanks Tim. I can see It's a very complex task... I want to show you a bypass made in a Boxster by a friend of mine. He posted good pictures, and add two manual valves (different from the ones in pics). https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=bypass What do you think about it? (Sounds fantastic)

Adding valves : Too complicated and expensive. A big waste of time and money. It is a subtle mod, not too loud. Why would you ever want turn them off? Just one man's opinion.

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I just wanted to know if it was able spending a bit more money, but I can see that's better doing the hack as all of you did. Thanks

Hey Darin, That's the first pic that I have of my car, nice.....thanks.

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Thanks, I like it when people call my work "hack".

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Sorry. I'm from Madrid (Spain) and my english level is very low. Hack, mod, handwork... I would like to know the proper word. If you guys see anything that I wrote wrong, I'll be glad to be corrected. Thanks

Joaquin, I think your English is pretty good....for a Spaniard living in Spain. Darin's craftsmanship is of a very high level. I'm sure that it will not make any difference with whatever terms we use, he's still the master! He knows it, and we know it! Besides, it does take great skills to "hack" into something, doesn't it.....

As always Darin is the ONLY one to see if you live in Northern California, but come from wherever you want too to get the mod done. Bill, glad to hear that you hooked-up with Darin and of course he took care of you Chuck, you are always bragging about being Darin's first

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Yep either get the PSE system or do the MKII mod. I would not spend the time and money on trying to make a PSE setup IMHO. With the MKII mod it is not as loud as a PSE and so there is no reason to turn it off, so no need for valves with the MKII setup. I looked at the Boxster bypass thread, wow that is some small diameter pipe, but I am no exhaust expert to know if that is a good or bad thing.

Anyone know of a place in San Diego or socal to do this mod? I went to 3 places yesterday and nobody is willing to do it.

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UPS mufflers to NorCal, about $30 Enjoying more of the beautiful flat 6 exhaust note via "PSE", priceless! Many have shipped their mufflers to Darin (FisterD). I am not sure but I think he can do an exchange so your downtime would be minimal. I'd ask him. If you aren't comfortable pulling the mufflers off yourself you could get someone in SoCal to pull them and reinstall. Just an idea. Either way I'd be really sure you found someone that can weld stainless properly. Otherwise, "rust never sleeps"...

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Plus, the guy's right hand is on backwards!

Demon, the Boxster S bypass I showed, is very similar to the pipes size in OEM Boxster PSE. I can say that It sounds very pretty

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No problem...I was just joking with you (hence the ) I thought it was funny how you used the word.

Here you can see a dyno result. A buddie from Soloporsche brought his Porsche 997 Carrera S just after installing the OEM PSE. As standard the car is 355 HP (in spanish 355 CV ) The final result was 376,40 HP That's the real proof in which you can appreciate an increment of power and torque with the PSE. The only way to say something about power increase is testing in a dyno. Porsche will never approve this, because of problems with standarization of the pieces, but there is a real bit increase:

Over 20hp from the PSE.....sorry but I am highly skeptical.

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+1

So do I What I think is: This 997 C2S had a good engine and perhaps the standard power was more than 355 HP. Not all the engines are exactly the same. The tolerance of the manufacturer allow this point. There would be good engines which a little increase and other with less HP that they advertise. If this engine was in very good conditions, and PSE helps it to breath a bit better, it's not rare obtain this power results. What we don't have is a dyno test, before installing PSE, but I'm sure this car had a very good fitness engine. I know this guy and he never changed anything of his car, excepting PSE. The dyno results are true. What do you think about it?

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Simple: Before and after dyno would validate the results. Without that there is no way to believe them.

Darin: You have a PM. Zed

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Zed, PM sent. Tag, your it.

Hey guys, I posted before on here that I had just bought a PSE and I was willing to sell the MKII modded exhaust I had on the car. Well that one went quick and I wanted to follow up. I have a spare set of cans and a extra set of bypass pipes that I got just in case. I can have the mod done and send them to you or you can buy them as is. Please let me know. They are off the car right now so if you want the mod I can have it done and sent to you by Monday.

I finally have a set of MKII mod cans in shippment to me and can hardly wait to get them installed. I have a 99 cab 2 996 should the installation be striaght forward? Just remove the old 3.4 and bolt in the new set? Robin Sun did the mods and I hope to install them next week so I can start to enjoy the sound that expected when I bought the car... thanks SHAY2n10 for the assistance!!!!!

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It will be a straight swap, but only if you put the brackets from your 3.4L mufflers on the 3.6L mufflers. Swapping the brackets is simple, two bolts per bracket.

I just got some cans as well...dropped off for the mod to be performed. Welder asked if he could paint the pipe in order to protect the welds a bit more....was kinda weird. I asked if he was using stainless, and he responded yes....then I asked why it needs paint? He said it will be better. I said go ahead...it won't be visible....hmmmmm. Should have them on the car possibly tomorrow. Excited here too. J

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J - you're gonna LOVE the sound!

Thanks for the info ...looking forward to getting them in..

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If the welder really used SS then paint is not necessary because all of the pipe and muffler is SS. I would be skeptical too.

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My muffler guy painted the around the welds. This takes care of the question in the back of your mind if the welds are rusting or not. If the guy doing yours can paint them, I'd say do it... even though it's redundant because of the SS pipe.

Arnie, your guy said that he used an Aluminized pipe when I asked him and he said it won't make any difference. He is right, they are the same thing, but you have to make sure the welds are ss.

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What paint dou you use ? I suppose that high tempertures could affect the paint...

mine were painted too....now when the muffs are hot....there is something burining off...not too bad....but I didn't pay for the mods or the install....so I can't complain too much. I called and asked whey they are smoking, he says don't worry....will burn off soon......I'm like...OK then....must be some type of adhesive? it's not too bad..but still bugging me. Sound is pretty good though. J

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High temp paint...for high temps.

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I said this because a friend of mine painted his cans with High Temp. paint but It wasn't resistance enough , and finally they began to peel off thanks

Renntech's genius, Tool Pants gave me this idea, referrered to my question about installing electrovalves to cutout the PSE Mod: http://www.pypesexhaust.com/accessories.html

Darin ...anyone....i live in Massachusetts...2001 C4 3.4 ....any places in Mass that have done this?...Darin i don't think you'll swap for 3.4 pipes ?...or do you have 3.6 pipes with the mod done that you will sell etc...

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Aluminized is mild steel with an aluminum coating on the outside. Stainless steel is an iron, chrome, and nickel alloy which is corrosion resistant throughout. Not the same thing.

i saw on the euro ebay sites that someone is modding pipes but it doesn't look like the full mod...anyone with any experience with these? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Porsche-911-99...QQcmdZViewItem

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That modification is the MKI mod to 3.6L mufflers. It takes exhaust gass and sound coming directly from the cats to the exhaust tips, by-passing the muffler completely. I have heard video clips of this mod and it sounds similar to teh MKII mod on 3.6L mufflers.

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That pipe seems pretty small. Kgs365 Sometimes I do have extra mufflers to sell outright, but currently I only have one pair for Exchanges. Sorry,I would not exchange for a set of 3.4's. If I can find another set, I will let you know.

will Porsche 2004 04 911 Carrera 996 GT3 Mufflers fit on a 2001 3.4?...

Darin "FisterD". I'm in San Francisco with an 04 GT3 and would like to do this mod but don't have the time to find another set of cans or the space to remove my existing ones (neighbors would freak if they saw anyone doing work on their car in the garage). I'm looking for someone I can take the car to on a Sat or Sun and remove my cans, do the mods, and put them back on. You know of a one stop shop solution for me? Thanks!

I am about an hour away from the city. I could do it.Email me directly at [email removed] .

"FisterD" Darin- Email sent.

See you Saturday!

Will that pass emissions? I suppose it would because the muffler just muffles the exhaust sound right? I am refering to the 3.4 mod on ebay.

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Muffler modification will not fail emissions Catalytic Bypass will fail emissions Muffler Bypass (if a complete Bypass of the mufflers) probably will get you a fix-it ticket for being too loud Others can chime in if they need to add to this or modify it

Hi guys: A friend of mine have installed the OEM PSE in his car (997 Carrera 4S) As he doesn't need the old mufflers he gave me his 997 C4S cans with the standard double tail pipes. I'm going to bring them to a welding shop to get the MKII mod done in these 997 mufflers. The questions are: 1) I think that they are going to sound similar to 996 3.6l MkII Mod. What do you think? 2) Will they fit in my car? What must they do to fit these 997 cans in my 996 C2? I can see that they are a bit different 3) I love the double round tail pipes of 997 Carrera 4S, much better than mine. Do you know if my rear bumper tail pipe holes are wide enough to fit them? Thanks in advance. here you can see the pic of 997 cans with the mod.

Is it me??? It looks like the MKII mod is already done on that.....maybe it's stock? Left side looks like it's got the bypass....no? EDIT: I'M A BOZO....i reread...that pix is of another set AFTER the mod. J

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Jon - as my 14 year old daughter said to me 6 years ago "Duh, Dad!"

incredible sound!!, just like pse. $150 at the muffler shop plus 3.6 cans from a rennlister. watch out! you will be goosing it ALL of the time. sets back mileage by 3-4 mpg easily. but worth it.

Yup....duh Jon. But I was man enough not to delete my post.....I'm fairly good at poking fun at myself. J

The pic is from a 997 rennlister. I have the 997 C4S cans and want to do the same mod. Could anyone help with my questions please?

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1) Not sure if they will sound like the 996 3.6L mufflers, but I would "guess" that they would sound similar. 2) I have not heard of anyone putting 997 mufflers on a 996. You "may" have to use the brackets from your 996 mufflers to make it work. Give them a try and let us know if they fit. 3) You are going to have to measure the width of the "dual tips" and then the opening in your bumper. The only other thing is to hope the tips exit the mufflers in same position as 996 mufflers, so they line up with the cut out in your bumper. Good luck and report back here on 1) how they sound and 2) how they fit on your car.

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Yeah, me too. And if you happen to "drop the ball" on poking fun at yourself occasionally, I'll be around to assist you with that when needed!

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Ok Tim. The cost of the mod in my welding shop is only 75� = 107$. I'm going to do that and then I'll bring the cans to my mechanic. Let's try to fit them, but if not, I'll go to mod the 3.6 l I promise to do a report. Thanks

My friend gave me the 997 mufflers this morning First thing i did was to unscrew the 997 dual tail pipes. I've been polishing for about two hours. As I work as a diamond jeweller maker, I have some instrumental to polish. The problem was that the pipes are to hard to get a bit of shine, but I cleaned them up and got a bit of shining look at least . When I'd mount them in my 996 C2, I'll post some pics. Next will be to do the bypass in the mufflers

Darin "FisterD" up here in the San Francisco Bay area did my 996 GT3 mufflers this morning. If you're in Northern California and looking for someone to do this mod for you I highly recommend Darin. His work was superb and he's a great guy to deal with too. I love the mod, car finally sounds more like it should and less like an air cooled VW on steroids. Sound is similar to stock at idle but a bit throatier and then really comes to life as you get on the gas. From the cabin with the windows up there's very little change in volume and no resonating at all.

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Duh....JK. Yep you are absolutely correct about Darin and his work and the results you get from an inexpensive mod.

I will pay and pick them up from your garage.

moded http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Origi...spagenameZWDVW un moded http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...spagenameZWDVW

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Nice "bypath"

done!....if you are even thinking of doing this its a must!....car sounds like i believe it should reminds me of the old 911 air cooled sound! ...very happy with the mod thanks guys!

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Congratulations and welcome to the MKII mod club, the easiest and less expensive way to get a good sound from your P car. Mine has been on for a few months now and I believe it is changing over time to even a better sound. I do get compliments on the exhaust sound which is nice.

gota911...how does the sound of the MkI mod on the 3.6 muffler sound comapre to the MkII mod, in your opinion? is there a significant difference...trouble is, I had my 3.6 mufflers modded, and I thought he was going to do the MkII, instead he did the MkI. No question it makes a difference...sounds louder and good. But is it worth it to replace with the Mk II mod?? Thanks..and open to anyone else's opinion.

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I have only heard the Mk I mod on 3.4l mufflers via video clip. Comparing that sound to sohnd of Mk II 3.6L muffler video clips and my own mufflers, the sound was very similar. I don't know if it would be worth it to replace the MK I mod with the MK II mod. I guess you could leave the MK I mod in place and ADD the MKII mod. I am not aware of anyone that had done the "dual mod."

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Do it

Thanks...dual mods uh?? uhmm. Maybe I'll first try to get a video clip and let you all hear it...I'm wondering if it'd be too loud??

Hi all, Currently, I have Fabspeed header/muffler but I hate it. No better than my old stock. If this mod turned out great I will sell my Fabspeed. Have been reading about PSE mod. I do have a set of 3.6 cans. I'm ready to do this mod. I have one question to ask before I do this. This might a stupid question but can I do a 2.25 pipe along with a 1 in. "J" pipe?

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Yes you can. If you do that, you will be the only person I am aware of that has done both the MK I mod (J-pipe) and the MK II mod (2.25") to the same set of mufflers. I would imagine they would be louder than mufflers with just the MK I or MK II mods. If you do both mods, I would be great if you could post a sound clip!

Actually....that's an interesting concept.....since both MKI and MKII have been shown to produce some great sound individually....If you can tap into the best of both worlds....this should be an acoustical symphony......I'd love to hear a sound clip.

Thanks guys for the encouragements! I already had the shop working on the cans. I will find out from them if they can add the "J" pipes. Looking at the outlet pipe I don't see much room to do this. I'll try if it's possible. Will update the progress soon.

Bad news! Shop can't install a "J" due to limited space on pipe to work with. Love the sound came out on the way home. Any takers on my Fabspeed?

Well that was what I thought would be the case in regards to clearance, but hey you had a go at it still. Glad you like the results from the MKII mod Sorry I will pass on Fabspeed...if it was Tubi then I would be all over it

Hey Steve: I was looking for Tubi's too...ended up with Europipe and I'm like a hog in heaven..great sounding setup with 100 cell cats....I'm hitting 1.1 bar in 3rd. We've got to get back together again...I enjoyed our last meet-up. Chuck

superfly: Most of us guys here who have done the MKII mods will attest to the great results. The sound isn't quite like the PSE...I'd truthfully say that you're probably 80 percent close to a true PSE sound, but you also paid around $350 or less as opposed to $1500.....and unless you're sitting right next to a PSE car, you'll never notice the difference. It's all about personal preference and how happy it makes you feel when you're mashing the gas....and the MKII always made me smile. You'll love it.

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Chuck, PM sent regarding another get together. Must tell you about me getting pulled over in Isleton by the CHP after being clocked in at 80mph + through the delta roads In regards to the Tubi's, they are the best I have ever heard on any 996, but looking forward to hearing your Europipe. Plus maybe you got some pointers on how I can upgrade my car to a GT3 via the 'Let it burn' method

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Chuck, I just want to go on record and point out that I didn't say that.......... this time!

No Tim....THIS TIME you're off the hook, but I have a nagging feeling that in due time it'll just inadvertantly slip out.... Steve: Just make sure if it catches fire that you're driving it at the time. It seems that the suspicion of arson is diminished if you happen to be in the vehicle. If it's just sitting there unattended, it automatically triggers an in depth examination of the circumstances, point of origin, recent changes to insurance etc. Does that help at all? Of course the first thing a good investigator will do is pull all your email threads to the forums and look for "clues". You'd be surprised at the different folks who peruse these forums.

If anyone has a set of 3.6 cans, ummodded or modded with the type 2 mode, please send me a message I am looking to buy

Try giving FisterD a PM.....he had a set or two already made up. You send him a core set and for a set price, he sends you a set that's already made up. He may just sell you one that's made up w/o the core but you'll eat a core charge. His work is fantastic....he's a master welder.

+1 on FisterD

Guys, I'm not fully satisfied. Looking at two ways to do the mod. Using 997 S cans add an extra outlet pipes along side the first one from the nipple to the tips, using dual tips set up. I don't know if the 997 cans fit on 996. Looking at pics. I see no different with shape, size and the muffler hook up bracket. The other way, connect a 2 in. short pipe from the inlet to the outlet (bypass) the cans. This way the sound should be more aggressive than the first. I appreciate if someone can tell me if the 997 muffler can fit on 996.

Someone mentioned here about a month ago that the 997 cans will not fit on a 996.

It must be the inlet & outlet pipes are a little longer than 996. But that can be fix and fit under the 996 bumper. I will do more research on this subject.

I looked into this and got the schematics of both exhausts and after looking under both cars and at the schematics they have substantially different piping. Not worth the extra work.

So it's the piping not the shape, size of the cans and the bracket. Good, I can mod. the piping to fit. I can do Mandrel bend with these pipes. Thanks!

Hello, I have a 996 GT3 in 2000. I would like to know if I can ride on my GT3 mufflers to 996 3.6 modified? Sorry, for my english, I'm French. Thanks.

MKII install complete this weekend. Very satisified, nice throaty growl and that F1 sound when I get on it. Very tame at cruising speed. Would be another +1 for anyone considering this mod.

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Lalex - Welcome to Rennlist. If I understand your question correctly, you wabt to know if you can modify your GT3 mufflers like the 3.6 mufflers. I believe the answer is yes you can do the same modification. However don't the GT3's have another set of mufflers just before the tail pipes? Or am I thinking of the 997 GT3 exhaust?

I did the MK2 mod a couple of weeks ago, and I really like the results. It does not drone at all, but has a deep guttural rasp when I'm at WOT in gears 1 - 3. Very nice. PS. What does MK2 stand for?

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Basically, it stands for version 2. Model years '99 - '01 are MK I cars. Mocel years '02 - '04 (and 2005 for C4 and C4S) are "facelift" cars and therefore are MK II cars.

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Thank you for your answer. In fact, I wanted to know if I could put 3.6 mufflers on my GT3?

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I see no reason why not, I have 3.6 mufflers on my 3.4 even though my car is not a GT3 just an Aero C2 (as seen in the sig). This mod is based upon doing it to the 3.6 mufflers as that is where you get the best results from in regards to sound. It has been mentioned that doing this mod to the 3.4 mufflers does not do much at all. GL with the mod and keep us posted.

Thanks. Nobody did this modification on a GT3?

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I have done this to a GT3. See the video in my signature.

Can someone confirm for me whether i have 3.6 or 3.4 cans? They have the accordian like pipe which I'm told means they come from the 3.6. The part number on one is 996 111 131.53 I believe this means it came from an automatic transmission car (could that matter?) but I'm unclear if this confirms the year of the donor car or engine size. Thanks in advance.

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Welcome to Renn! 3.6 is the accordian type exhaust. 3.4 has no accordian.

Welcome to Rennlist. As redridge said a muffler with the accordion pipe is from a 3.6L engine.

Thanks! And thanks for welcoming me to the list. Will give this mod a try! Something to do with the welder over the winter.

OK, i hate to belabor the point. But I want to be sure I have 3.6 cans before proceeding. Here's a photo. What concerns me is that the "cap" that you cut out for the mkII mod is different on mine than the ones i see in this thread. More like a "button" than a "cap" on mine. Are these mufflers still worthy of the mod? Thanks again.

Yes, the "cap" (button) looks a little different but those should be 3.6L mufflers. My guess is that they could be from a 2002 car that was driven in an area with snow in the winter. Where do you live and where did the mufflers coem from? Just curious.

Thanks tim. I live in NJ but the mufflers came from California. Supposedly with only 34000 miles. I grant you a little hard to believe. But probably they are no worse than what I have ... 125000 miles on my car, approx 70000 on current set of mufflers. I have no special affinity for these mufflers, but they were the right price. I could wait for another set to come along. Ross

Those are the 3.6L mufflers...but they look like they've been sitting out in the elements for some time. Did these come from a recycling yard? Since they're stainless, they should be ok...but they look pretty rough.

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I installed 3.6 cans this past weekend, old cans I took off my car looked just as dark and ugly as those (40,000 miles).

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Thanks.

just did this mod on the 3.6L mufflers on my '02 C2 using 2.25" diameter pipes. totally disappointed... it was hardly any louder. would have liked a deeper bassier tone as well. now i'm really tempted to go all the way and do the muffler bypass instead although i'm concerned about the loss in low end torque as i drive a tiptronic. also, it's illegal to run without mufflers in my country, so retaining the mufflers, even as an empty shell, would be useful for the annual inspection, although it shouldn't be too much trouble either to swap the bypass pipes back to stock mufflers just to pass inspection. i was wondering if there's a middle ground between the PSE hack and the fabspeed bypass? earlier in this thread, there was some talk of doing the Mk-I J-pipe mod, in addition to the Mk-II mod, to achieve an even louder sound? has anyone done this yet? some options i'm considering at the moment: 1) custom muffler bypass pipes using a smaller diameter pipe than the fabspeed's to provide some back pressure and reduce the noise output somewhat. 2) cutting open the stock muffler, removing the internal baffles and connecting the inlet and outlet pipes directly with a U-shaped stainless steel pipe 3) cutting open the stock muffler, removing the internal baffles, connecting the inlet and outlet pipes with a perforated U-shaped pipe and packing the muffler with sound absorbing wool/fibreglass. 4) adding the Mk-I mod on top of the Mk-II mod i've already done on my 3.6L mufflers. what would you folks suggest? thanks

I really like my MK II mod. For whatever reason, mine seemed to get a little louder after about 500 miles after doing the mod. Do #4. I don't think anyone has done both MK I & MK II mods to a set of mufflers.

I'm too much busy to go to the welding shop. But I've been to my mechanic's and he was meassuring the 997 Carrera S muflers, to adapt them into my 996 carrera. He told me there's no problem to work properly in a 996. The could fit with a pair of mods... Let's see if I'd have enough timeto go to the welding shop with the 997 mufflers and set them in my car with the bypass done Sorry about this. There are some rennlisters who asked me for PM how it was going...

Joaquin, you're too busy to do a Porsche mod??? Come on man, get a life!! Just kidding! Thanks for the update. Let us know exactly what mods you mechanic has to make to the 997 mufflers to get them to work with a 996.

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Leave him alone Tim, he's getting ready to watch the Liverpool vs. Wigan match today

I have lot of to do in my job, but the real thing is that my father is ill with a brain tumor and I have to help him. All my free time is not enough to care for him

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Joaquin, hey forget about anything else besides taking care of your father. Steven BTW...Torres just scored

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Joaquin, I am sorry to hear about your father. Our prayers are with him, and with you. Tim

Thanks Tim I've been to the hospital with him today and the doctors told us that he is evolving very well (the surgeons made a fantastic job last september but he needed chemotherapy and radiotherapy) There is a high risk to reproduce the tumor in 15 months if we don't stop it , and that's why he needs therapy. Emotional compounds are very low and a bit depression, but I'm very optimist and trusted to cure. We have good posibilities. At now we have not very good days, but It'll be better soon Thanks a lot I'll try to do teh 997 mod in my 996 as soon as possible guys!!!!!

Hi, im french (so sorry for my bad English !). I have a 997S without PSE, and i m looking for a good solution to have PSE sound, after 32 pages of this topic i understand differences between PSE mod MK1 an MK2, but nobody try MK1+MK2... this is maybe the real good solution to have PSE sound ? I find this on ebay : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SPORT...spagenameZWDVW great job but without video files or sound files, it will be hard to know the final result...

Welcome to Rennlist. That muffler certainly looks interesting.

I see it uses two crossover pipes that bypass the baffles....the question I have is does the use of two different sized pipes make that much of a difference? I used to have a car with the MKII mod, and I've see pictures of the MKI J pipe mod....but this is the first time I've see two bypass pipes. It would be interesting hearing a sound clip. $745 seems a bit steep for a modded muffler...especially when the MKII ran around $200 or even less if you could get someone to donate their 3.6L mufflers. RSR was doing a core swap out mod, and I believe theirs ran somewhere around $550 exchanged. I guess it's still cheaper than the PSE.

A guy on the 997 Forum added a small pipe between the inlet pipe and the outlet pipe (MK I version only) and was very pleased with the outcome. Yes, it would be interesting to hear clips of the "dual" mod version.

I'll be going to the welding shop tomorrow. I'll bring the 997 C4S mufflers to do the MKII version, and after that, adapt then into my car with the double end pipes from original 997 C4S. I promise to give you more info when I got it Regards from Spain

Joaquin, I hope your father is doing well. You may want to get some "before" sound/video clips prior to the change so you can easily compare the two versions, I sure many here would love to hear them as well (some pics would be great too!).

Thank you very much My father is doing well as you say, little by little but I hope we'll have many times to enjoy with him... I had to leave the 997 cans in the welding shop They were so busy, and I'll have to bring my car there next week to fit them in my 996 Wlth the car on the elevator they'll measure what to cut and welding to fit the end pipes in my rear defense. Next week I'll take some pics to show the work

Hi guys. I left the cans in the welding shop to get the mod done last week. They told me to go there to install them in my car. As you know I had a 997 C4S cans from a friend of mine. I hope that they will work in my car, and when I'd go with the 996 C2, the cans would fit in my engine. If not, they'll have to do a little change to fit them in the correct place. Besides, may be they'll have to change the end 997's doble pipes to fit in my rear defense. I would have to go there at 16:00 h o'clock but I have too much work to do, and a good friend will arrive in the welding shop with my car. He is a good Porsche 996 expert, and I'm very confident in taking care about my car. My friend is going to get some pics, and finally when I'll have my car at home, I'll make a little video to show the changes. I don't know if I'm the first reenlister who do this MK3 mod (997 cans into a 996) Regards

Latest News: They're going to end the work tomorrow. The 997 cans' end pipe have 35 cm distance from the starting corner. If you don't cut the pipe to 25 cm (like 996 cans), they will appear in the centre of the rear defense, (more or less like a BMW M3). They have to cut 10 cm to assemble the final pipe in the rear bumper holes. Tomorrow afternoon I'll get the car and try to show this neverending story...

Incredible sound!!! 997 C4S mufflers works perfectly in a 996 Carrera 3.6!!!!!!!! It's best mod I've ever done in my car. I'm going to drive and enjoying now and I'll post pics and video this night.

Can't wait to hear it

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I compared my car to a 996 Carrera 4S and I think that the sound is a 75% closer to OEM Sport exhaust Give me 10 minutes to post some pics and a video (the video it's not good enough because It doesn't have real sound)

New end pipes (997 C4S): Standard 996 3.6 cans with OEM end pipes (before working): Installing 997 3.8 cans: Placing the 997 3.8 cans (After doing the bypass): VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqfAwkwMn58

Looking at those 997 pipes, it's totally funny how hypocritical people are. Here they are clowing on the new IS-F for having a fake pipe as if it's such a sin in the first place to be vain... and yet here's the 911 pipe that clearly has no need for two holes. They both look great. And with this thread being so long, is it really worth it at the end of the day to spend all this time and energy for a result that's never going to be as good as the original? It's one thing if PSE costs $5K, but it's much less than that and you could always sell it very quickly and go back to stock.

Joaquin, very nice sound on the clip! I'm glad those worked out for you.

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As my english level is not good enough to understand several things, What's the meaning of IS-F? In Madrid (Spain) the PSE cost about 2.300 euros = 3.675 $ I paid 180 € for all = 285 $ and I love this doble pipe. I don't want to pretend being a 997 owner with them. They look very pretty for me, and they were placed perfectly by an expert. All us know that they ar not OEM for 996 , but I don't find them as a fake. For this reason, all people who mounted 19" rims in a 996 (with an oversize tires) are they coming into a 997 fake? I don't think so. I love my car 100 % original, and doing this mod, you do the same as PSE without electrovalves to cut out. I didn't want to mod my 996 3.6 original cans, because I could sell my car better in the future. Nevertheless I respect all the opinions. Thanks

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Thanks Tim. This welding shop is famous in Madrid. They work with racing car teams and did a fine job.

Andale Juaquin! Very nice sporty sound. Felicidades!

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Joaquin, The new pipes look great. I have been following your thread and was wondering what you ended up doing. Is this the same shop that did the boxster exhaust upgrade? IS-F is the new Lexus 4 door V8

No. This shop is called Soldaduras Carmona in Madrid The other one is in the northern of Spain Thanks

Yea, Juan... Lexus IS-F has these pipes that stack up on top of each other with the top or bottom one I forget being completely unnecessary. You get all these guys making fun of it, but little do they know exhaust tips aren't necessary period. So any car with nice shiny exhaust tips... is totally cool. Vanity counts.

juanquin...te quedo excelente..que lo disfrute, manny.

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I did this last year.(Yours looks great, by the way) I prefer this version of the mod. Louder and more aggressive.

Excellent!! Fister you are the number one!!!

I actually really like those tips, but on the MKII cars the rear bumper cutouts are shaped differently and I'm personally a little worried about things warping from heat. When I did my PSE mod I was tempted though. If I ever went to a different bumper with more clearance or a more squared off cutout I'd do those quad tips. Can't argue with $285 for cans + tips + mod!

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What a nice car you have.!!!! Do you have more pics with Turbo 997 rims?

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Thank you! I do have some pics on here somehwere

Modern look I find your car very close in time to 997 with these rims.

I do like the way it turned out. Valets do tend to keep it out in front which I find pretty funny! I was going for a super clean look with a hint of aggression. In fact initially I was thinking of also doing the Techart Type II wing (looks almost exactly like the old 993 Turbo S whaletail/tea tray, last wing I really liked) as well, but was afraid I might be toeing the Franken-Porsche line a bit too much. If I had to do it over again, given where I drive it and how hard I've been beating on it, I would have gone with the 18s on higher profile rubber just for peace of mind. Nearly everyone I personally know in the two places I spend the most time bends their 19" 997 wheels with frightening regularity, and every hardcore wheel person I know tell me that 19s on 996 and 997 are infamous in their world for doing this. I have 17" lightweights which will be used for the winter. Because of the gunmetal color on all of the horizontal surfaces of the wheel (only the face of the wheel is polished), they don't look that great on lighter colors at least in my opinion, but for black/blue I think they are sharp. In fact initially I did not like these wheels on the turbo until I saw them on a black car. One of my favorites (I came very close to doing this) is the sport techno, but painted black on the horizontal surfaces similar to the 997tt wheels. here's a pic: Notice how the painted horizontal surfaces make the red calipers look a little funny?

this is the wing I was talking about

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Hi Darin, Quick question, is the "NEW! 996/997 Stage II" exhaust that you do with the sound clip attached picture with the bypass pipe in between the two stock pipes or with the extra pipe attached from the cut off end cap to the stock pipe? How much louder is the bypass version?

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Yes, I call that mod Stage II, when the bypass connects the inlet and outlet directly. It is louder than the pipe added to the end cap. How much louder is hard to say, but under hard acceleration , it is definitely louder and more aggressive sounding.

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Darin, Have you done both (inlet outlet connection as well as end cap)? I stil haven't heard of anyone doing both, curious since I know you do muffle r mods a lot

I have not done both to the same set of mufflers. The Stage II bypass requires muffler backpressure to work properly, so the other pipe connecting to the plugged porthole, may take some of that backpressure away. This would eliminate some of the effectiveness of the Stage II bypass.......this is just my theory. I did some testing on some 993 mufflers with less backpressure then stock, and the results were disappointing.

So on a MkII can, the inlet to outlet mode that you've labeled stage II, is it similar to the old MkI PSE Mod? (I'm sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself). I'd love to hear them both side by side (I did the MkII PSE mod to MkII cans)

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No problem. I deal with a lot of people outside the Rennlist realm, so don't use the MkI, MKII labels because a lot of people wont get it. I started doing the MKII mod(Stage I), and most people liked it, but some wanted more noise. When they would hear my 993 fire up with my modified mufflers, they would say "That's the sound I want!". So i decided to mod them the same way I modify many 993 mufflers, with a bypass across the inlet and outlet. It is much closer to the sound of my 993 (though not exact, just closer). Since it is louder, more aggressive, and the second mods I began doing on 996/997's, I refer to it as Stage II.

I did the Mod mk11 on a 3.6 can it is not as loud as I thought it would be on idle. I had the muffler shop put on 2.25" pipe. looks good on the outside but not sure how big is the hole they cut inside. It sounds good on high rpm. I bought ebay headers for $150 shipped and installed it. Did the intake mod also(spending less than $10 for the intake mod). The result on this $240 total modification is unbelievable. My 996 03 c2 is just so much more fun to drive now. It's amazing still quite on Idle but when you step on the gas is screams and it feels like it pulls better. I highly recommend it. Miks

To appreciate the sound of the mod you need to kick down the accelerator If you drive in regular rpms you did'nt notice any substancial change, but It works with accelerator charge. A bit more pics from my rear view:

Joaquin, I like it! Looks nice.

Thanks Fister You are best expert in this items:

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Fister, It seems that the pipe across simply makes a bypass pipe (similar to a Fabspeed bypass). My mind tells me the air should flow through the least restrictive path - i.e., directly to the tailpipe and not through the muffler. Does this mod actually sound like a bypass pipe (straight from the Cat) or is it a little more tame? I was going to mod my cans like this, but I figured that if the sound was the same, I would just lose the 50 lbs and get the bypass pipes... One of the locals actually cut off his muffler just after the cat connection, and rotated the pipe 180 degrees. It turns out that cutting them off right before the muffler can itself is just the right spot for the pipe to fit in the bumper slots. Basically, he ended up with a "free" set of bypass pipes... -td

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td, No it does not act like a complete muffler bypass. A lot of the exhaust still passes through the muffler. On acceleration, backpressure is created, this forces a percentage of the exhaust through the bypass pipe. The harder you accelerate, the more is pushed through the bypass. It has a great sound , as is not as loud as a muffler bypass.

Hey Guys! Here is a copy of what I just Emailed to FisterD after receiving my 3.4 mufflers that he modified for me. It was well worth it I have to say! I am totally awestruck by this exhaust! This sound is unreal! Anyways, it gets me all giddy inside when I give'er the beans and hear the revs, and I am also pleased that when I get off the gas, the rev sound goes away completely so I don't have to worry about driving people crazy I don't think. I can cruise on the highway and it sounds pretty quiet. Same deal if I cruise into my residential street - no big noise. But when you give it gas, you can feel the power baby yeah! Truly the best thing I have ever done with any car. Let's see how would I describe the sound? unmistakable porsche sound I guess. a snarl and a machinegun maybe? I don't think that does it justice. I am so happy dude! Thanks for making my week! I gotta find an excuse to run some errands now! Anyone thinking of doing this modification - don't worry about it too much, just go for it - you'll be amazed! FisterD - I wish you all the success in the world in doing this modification service - you do good work and I highly recommend any other Renlisters to you. It was so easy to just order it and get it installed - I went the ultra convenient way, and as usual, I am happy I did that - it took me only a few Emails and total price under $500.00 or so including installation. No messing around with finding pipes or a local tig welder who can handle stainless pipes. Now I have some unmodified 3.4 "cans" I'll be getting rid of soon. The sound I have on mine sounds even better than most of the YouTube videos I have seen. I should almost get some good recordings myself and let you guys hear it. I'll see if I can get around to do that. The exhaust note I get now is sooooo satisfying, what a great release it is to hear that. A must do!

Darin: Do you need any additional 3.4L mufflers? I've got two sets sitting around if you are using them to make up mufflers....but I thought most of the guys were looking for the 3.6L mufflers.....Are you still on for Saturday? I had to tear the slant apart....exhaust leak AGAIN....I need a lift but cant' run the car till I fix the leak kuz I took out the exchangers ...probably will drive the TT on Saturday unless I can fix the 930 by then.

Bud, Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you like the new mufflers. It is a great mod. Chuck, I'll be in the shop working on cars Saturday (Boxsters and 993). It would be great if you could come down, and yes, I have a nice mod that works well on 3.4 cans. So if you would like to unload your cans, let me know.

I have to bring you the CD of the pictures I took at your shop warming anyway...so I'll bring you some 3.4L cans. It's going to cost you a Corona or two... Besides, I feel the need for speed.....and that levee road is a blast to drive....with due caution and being mindful of other drivers of course. Also want you to look at that stainless Brey Kraus extinguisher mount for the 930.

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Which is the best mod for 3,4 engines? Here in Madrid a friend of mine wants to mod his cans, and I told him to do this one:

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Chuck, No problem. I'll take care of the welding for you (and the Coronas!) I can't see the image.....?

Sorry. Here It is:

I have 3.6 cans available in a shipping box, only 4000 miles on them. PM if you're interested.

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hi by doing by back pressure to work properly? Also, what size pipes and hole do you use? Does larger means better? I see how you weld the connecting pipes levelled. Another design i saw was to weld it at an angle where the part nearer to the inlet is lower. Does angle of the connecting pipe makes a difference? What is the difference between the connecting pipe mod and the addtional outlet pipe mod and both together? Appreciate a response

Buz, Here is a link to post #23 in this thread. Post #23 It should give you some additional info. I think you are over analyzing this mod. I have responded to your post about 997 PSE mufflers on the 997 forum. You have a few options here: If you mod 997 mufflers like the pic in post #23, they will sound much better than stock, probably very similar to true PSE. or....You could do the mod shown in the 997 thread where you install a connecting pipe between the inlet and outlet pipe. or.... you could do both. Personally, I woud do one or the other but not both unless I had heard mufflers that had both mods.

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wow i dont think i have seen a boxster with quad pipes.. That looks so cool... smth like the quiksilver on the murcie lambo

This is an old but very helpful thread on the MKII Hack Mod. I have been here many times making copies of pictures and reading. this seems like the best place to archive MY pictures of the mod for others to see..... these are a set of 3.6 cans I picked up off ebay, I had a buddy do the welding for lunch and beers... (I will slip him some cash later) The insides of the welds are true to the pipe, they really look good IMO Here ya go.. Our interpritation....

Ed, He really did a good job on those welds. Nice sound, isn't it?

Ed, Post a sound clip for us to hear!!

Looks good Ed, let us know your impression once installed. +1 on the sound clip.

They are in and sound great, we got snow again so I will get a clip uploaded asap, there is a tunnel near my house, that should produce a nice sound byte ! It took 3 or more weeks to get these back from him, but I wasnt in a hurry and I like how it turned out...notice my 3.4 cans = instantly "for sale" LOL

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Nice work

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Thanks ! That mean alot to me coming from you as you have been setting the bench mark high for us... Your work is awesome !

Nice Ed.... it looks great against that GT2 wing.

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THAT yellow thing is the GT2 HOOD - omg I am sick!

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OK Ed.... should I ask wtf are you doing with a gt2 wing, hood, exhaust... never mind dont tell me.

learning...... ASK - THEN BUY.... shoot I had that ALL backwards before.... too reminds me of this home and garden show that saved me thousands of dollars in plants...we used to buy them, come home and look for somewhere to plant them, then this show said, find the place to plant, THEN buy the plants...good lord I am slow sometimes!!

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Ed is only 3 or 4 parts away from being able to build his own GT2!

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yeah... and where is he gonna put all those plants?....

MY GT2 is gonna be USEFUL !! (I dont even want to laugh that is so bad...)

Ed, the Porsche Marketing guys are going to be very pissed off at you for letting the design of the next Porsche offering out of the bag. As they are getting ready to produce the Panamera, they are in the final design stages for the Plant amera, which is going to be a conglomeration of the CS, the Panamera, and the old style Targa. The Targa roof will be removable to gain access to the "cargo hold" (a.k.a. truck bed in the USA) as you have shown above.

You're right Ed... you are sick.

I have been going to try to edit a video for a long time, I finally tried it and it was pretty simple. Here is what I came up with... I want to point out that the car sounds WAY loud in the tunnel BUT for real, its very subtle and quiet out on the road....and there is NO drone in the car at all. Only a nice rumble. Many riders cant even tell that I did anything...its very mild that said - enjoy my very first video edit ever!

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To FisterD, or anyone who knows about this mod, Regarding to your mod stageII, #489 , May I ask you what size of the pipe did you use between inlet and outlet? Is it the same 2.25" as MKII ? Sorry that I have to post your picture Thanks

Sorry but for a 3.6 of 2003 amending pse advise? 1 tube j 2 tube from left to right 3 tube that connects the gas inlet to gas outlet

see post #520.. those are the 3.6 and that IMO is what you want to do to them.... Perfect growl, not loud....wonderful tone

Thanks I saw, but tell me that you suggested and 'the middle way between the two flat tube?As performance and 'true that we lose tiles? But once I saw a video of exhaust cut in half you could see the resonance chambers know anything?

Upppppppp .

Uppppppppp.

whew.... I didnt get much out of that last couple posts... what? Have you tried contacting FisterD ? (Darin) He might have some insight as to which one is best for you

I do not understand what changed between the three versions of the mod! Also someone has a picture of the barrel open?

so for the 3.4 there was a "j" pipe connecting the inlet and outlet, this is because the 3.4 cans have a huge seam right where the "cap" is on the 3.6 cans.. the 3.6 cans are the same as the PSE but have a welded in cap to cover the additional outlet.... (on PSE there is a pipe and a valve that connect) so the "hack" is to simply remove the cap, open the outlet pipe and weld a pipe between the two. The stage 3 (IIRC) adds back in the addition of the "J" pipe (which is now straight) between inlet and outlet for more sound as some wanted just a "bit more" hope this helps

And then this' muffler of 3.4 with modified tube j:

then this' unloading of 3,6 by changing the large pipe :

And that 'the discharge of 3.6 with modification of two large pipes

These three mod you can do about 3.6? That there are differences in sound between the three versions? That 's the picture of the muffler inside, I had seen a video on you tube exhaust cut in half' someone has?

Yes you can do any of these mods to 3.6L mufflers. Each will have a slightly different sound. The pic in post #549 is of 997 mufflers, not 996 mufflers. However, the internal makeup of the 3.6L mufflers is very similar to that pic. I did the mod shown in post #547 and was very pleased with the sound. If you want a louder version do the "double" mod shown in post #548. Hope this helps.

yep yep

The three changes do not increase hp?

#546 = 20-25 hp #547 = 40-50 hp #548 = 50-60 hp DO NOT DYNO THE CAR OR HP GAINS MAY BE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS! ! ! ! !

So these changes are losing performance?

I dont think the performance "change" is significant enough for 99% of drivers to detect either way... however if you are a 10/10 track junkie..... hold on, a real track junkie would not mess with a $200 exhaust.... never mind it will be fine

I too do not think that increase hp, but I would like to improve the sound, but without impairing performance. That's why I put the photo of the exhaust cut for understanding what 'better.

keep in mind that the second pic is pretty much a copy or what Porsche does for the PSE - a system THEY developed and sell on thier cars, I am sure it is not performance limiting to a greater factor than they are willing to put up with.... which should be fairly minimal just my thought

Even with its pse porsche opriginale put a tube of 2.25? Someone said that with this change by passing the resonance chamber 3 and 'true

I dont think you completely by-pass #3 but perhaps I am not a airflow dynamics expert but worked with a PhD in fluid dynamics long enough to know.... I am not that either

Thanks for pointing me to this thread. Since there is so much to read, can someone please tell me what I need to do to get the best sound from the 3.6 mufflers? I'm going to start at page 1 and hope that I can get a response before I get to page 38, lol.

see post 520 (IMO after reading ALL THIS, that is what I determined the "best" for the 3.6 cans...) it sounded WONDERFUL!!!

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2.25" seems to be the best size piping? Any pictures of the mufflers stock before the mod so I can compare? I'm excited about this. Thanks guys!

post #23 = before and after pics from Tim's Honda --- err 911 I mean

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Great, thank you! So 2.25" is the cats meow for the piping, correct? I think that's all I need now! Did anyone take this job to a muffler shop? If so, roughly what did you pay?

yes, muffler shops charge between $40 and $400 depending on how stupid they are!!!

I am thinking about this mod. Looked at post #520. Great pics. Thanks. The PO of my 996 had some type of PSE installed as there is the PSE button on the dash near the nav unit. How does this button work?

I adjusted my muffler with a 2-inch pipe, the sound at idle and 'slightly stronger but when accelerating increases without being too strong. Perfect.

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I thought PSE was standard on the 40th. If the button was there, maybe he pulled it out.... just press the button (LED on) the go in quiet mode.

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Bawhahaha!!!

If i want to do this mod to a 3.4 what do i tell the muffler shop? Does anyone have a sound clip? It won't sound all racer or anything will it?

I was plnning to do the mod to 3.4 cans and was told "DONT" by a great many people???? FWIW I found a set of 3.6 cans on ebay for under $100 had them shipped up, modded and I installed them, then sold my 3.4 cans for almost $100 back on ebay... its a bit of work but for me it was worth it.... 3.6 cans will fit a 3.4 without any changes at all, even used my old tips (wish I didnt have to though OR just have Darin Fister send you a set of already modded cans for very little money and no effort at all!!!

No, it will not sound "all racer."

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I'd like to do an exhaust mod on my '99 C2 without spending a lot, or creating a noise my neighbors/wife will hate. I've read good things about the FisterD Mod , but also found this thread describing an mkI mod where a small bypass pipe is cut in between the inlet and outlet of the 3.4 mufflers. Are these the same thing? I'm sure Fister does great work, but I've got a local "guy" who can do the welding and avoid shipping these things across the country. Thoughts? also, this is one LONG thread, and I just read the whole thing.

Yes, the FisterD mod is the same as the MK I mod. Just print one of the pics and show it your your local guy. I paid $60 to get mine welded with the MK II mod at a local muffler shop. You will love the sound.

Scott... buy a set of descent 3.6 cans (see my posts.. ~$100-150) have them welded up local ... about $40-70 range, then re-sell the 3.4 cans for $50-75... its a little work but no harder than mailing a set of seats in the end I was in mine about $50 total and I had by-pass pipes for about 1 week which my wife HATED and my ears are still ringing from.. the hacked mufflers are smooth, mellow and have almost no noise at cruise.... they are in a word, PERFECT ! (esp for the price)

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Okay, I realize this has been asked frequently in this thread, but does anyone have a set of 3.6 mufflers they'd like to part with?

YOU, my friend ARE A MEMBER... and YOU can go check the "for sale" section https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...assifieds-136/ also watch ebay (I know, but sometimes its worth it)

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Thanks for the tip. I had checked those spots, but no luck so far Thought I'd post here just in case anyone had a set lying around.

Summary : I have a '99 996 with a 3.4 liter engine. I bought a set of 3.6 L mufflers (from a fellow Rennlister) and took them to my local shop. I gave him the summary picture below (photos borrowed from this thread). I bought a 2.25" "J-bend" tube from JGES for $24 plus shipping and had it shipped to my shop. For some reason, the J-bend was cheaper than the U-bend. Since I was cutting it anyway, it didn't matter. After the cutting and welding were complete, I installed the new mufflers on my 996. (you need to swap the brackets on the mufflers, too.) Now I've got a nice throaty growl sound to the exhaust when I "get on it" I shot some video; I'll try to upload it later. Thanks Rennlisters. Anyone want to buy some 3.4L stock mufflers?

LOVE IT !!! WTG Scott !!

Nice job, great pics.

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Who is this guy? Amazing!!! I'm glad my pictures helped you out.

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Thanks Darin, your pictures were perfect. The welds I ended up with were not nearly as pretty as those in your pictures, but they'll hold.

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Thank you. Hopefully they welded them with stainless and not mild steel. That is the more important part. Enjoy the new noise!

Is this thread still active? I just read the whole thing and decided to mod my original 3.6 cans. Took them off this morning in 1.5 hours and should get them back from the muffler shop at end of day. All for 50 bucks. If it sounds half as good as the pse, it was worth it. I will post after I put them back on. By the way, tried the muffler bypass, I was embarrassed the moment I pulled out of my driveway. Sounded cool, but waaaaay to loud. I'm looking for about 30 -50% over the stock sound. Hope this is it. Everyone here seems to love the mod. Brian

its a great thread and you will LOVE the results of your efforts - keep in mind its louder outside than inside so you might feel like its a little tame, but open the windows and throttle

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Amen Ed, I had the pleasure to boot mine thru the express lane tunnel last weekend...

I love the mod. I thought it would be much louder, but hey, you can't beat it for $80 bucks and 3 hours labor. No regrets! And yes I like to have the windows down and occasionally drive thru a self serve car wash. I don't wash the car, I just like the sound of the car off of the walls. _____________ 02' 996

LOL - it is louder outside so the echo is nice to remind yourself!

Is this the same mod as the "FisterD" ? Do both cans get modified, or just one - the pictures make it confusing. Thanks Steve

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Yep, some of us have had the mod done locally and both cans get the bypass tube installed. Great mod...

Fister is just the only guy we know of who has made a business out of doing this..... he's really good, and a top notch person to work with. His prices are reasonable too... but the mod itself is basicly the same and yes, two cans get it

I'm buying a pair of 3.6L cans for my 99 carrera, and am planning to do the MKII hack with 2.25' pipes. Anyone have any thoughts on if I also did the MKII hack with a 1" pipe what the result would be?

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I'll go out on a limb and guess it will be significantly quieter than with the larger diameter.

I just got a set of 3.6 cans with 2.5 inch bypass pipes on my 2000 Carrera Cab, and I'm REALLY happy with the results! As mentioned previously, you don't hear them as much from the drivers seat unless you're climbing through 3000 revs, but people around you will certainly notice! I think they are the perfect balance of not being too obnoxious under normal driving, no drone, and when you give it some throttle, there is a wonderful bark that was missing with my stock 3.4 cans. Thanks to all on this thread for giving their input on this mod! Those that haven't done it yet, what are you waiting for?!

Here's a video of an autocross run I did last year. You can get a sense of the MKII muffler hack sound. I think I had posted this before, but I couldn't find the thread...

On my 2002 C4 Cab, I did the MkII mod with 2" pipes a few weeks ago. Coming from my '02 Vette with an SLP exhaust and intake, it wasn't doing it for me. I expected it to be at least a little bit louder at idle, which it wasn't. When I did get on it, that's where I could hear where the money went. So I went back to my shop and had them do the MKI mod with 2" as well. This was the sound I was looking for! The Vette is still louder, but now at idle I can hear the rumble a little bit and it's a little louder than before. Regular driving definitely is more fun now! The overall sporty sound has increased without sacrificing my hearing. I'm very happy with it. For those deciding which mod to do, do both!

Just a point of information. Darin Fister now performs the same mod regardless if the cans are 3.4 or 3.6, so there is virtually no difference in sound between the two. If you have an MKI car, don't waste your time looking for a set of 3.6 cans for the mod. Your 3.4 cans will sound great.

Resurrecting an old post about exhaust mod. Where is the best place to go looking for mandrel bent stainless if your muffler shops dont carry it?? Thanks

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JGES. See post #579 above in this thread for details.