105 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHLet's talk maximizing performance
Leading reported evidence
Install 2qt sump kit
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I installed the 2qt sump kit which comes with the X51 type baffle and the 997 oil return nozzles.
Leading evidence: 'Install 2qt sump kit' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill engine' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I've installed muffler deletes on my 996 and the power drop was really noticeable as soon as I went for a drive.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Replace character of the power delivery entirely imho
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Changed the character of the power delivery entirely IMHO.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Changing the flywheels weight does not change the torque or horsepower of the engine, it changes the "inertia" of the rotating mass which is not measured by a dyno.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Changing the flywheels weight does not change the torque or horsepower of the engine, it changes the "inertia" of the rotating mass which is not measured by a dyno.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
105 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T183130Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Let's start with the car as it sits. a 2001 Carrera with H&R sport springs, K&N intake and Muffler bypasses made by beluga racing (The say racing so they have to be good right!?) The car has had IMS/RMS done along with Clutch, coils/plugs, AOS, etc. The basic safety maintenance stuff.
I'd like to slowly start making the car into a track car that I can go out and enjoy on a lot of these Alabama back roads. Ride quality around town and noise are not concerns. I will probably gut most of the interior and I've got a plan for the suspension but looking for sort of a "road map" to getting the most out of the 3.4. I'm not looking to make huge HP gains or anything like that, just maximize the power available and get it to the ground.
what are some of the standard upgrades for theses engines? I see a lot of talk about plenums and pulleys, etc. Without getting into internals what is sort of the ideal setup to maximize the engines potential? Not looking for "search function" replies, looking to start a conversation. Thanks fellas
You're probably losing low end torque by pairing the k&n intake and muffler bypass. From my experience the muffler bypass saves about 60lbs, but you lose low end torque and gain in the higher rev range, so it's an okay mod. The K&N intake I believe sucks in too much hot air and the oil can mess up the MAF. I would recommend going back to stock intake or doing the helmholtz delete if you want the louder intake sound.
Shedding weight is probably the best thing you can do, without spending tons of money on engine work or FI.
I've never really understood how I could be sucking in more hot air with this intake vs stock, My stock box has holes underneath it where the K&N has a solid heat shield. Seems like the holes in the stock box would expose it to way more hot air?
Im OK with a little low end loss as Im not really out to drag race anybody and I dont mind keeping it up in the revs. Is there any point (or is it even possible) to tune the ECU?
Do Pulleys and whatnot actually free up any power?
Take a look at:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...clr-intro.html
He has his car down to 1086kg or 2395 lbs, probably for cheaper than you could really add 50 HP to these cars.
I think Porsche has already given us 90% of the performance in stock form. Additional mods get exponentially expensive on very small performance increase. First and foremost are the brake mods. For regular street driving the stock pads are great because when you need it, you get the initial bite right away even when it is cold and wet. On the track, after repeated heating, the pads will overheat, not fluid boiling which is a different cause, and the pads become ineffective.
I might get flamed by this suggestion. Spending on driver education to me is the most effective investment. Secondly is track time. Nothing reward you more than getting your butt meter calibrated to know exactly where the limit is. You will be surprised how capable the car is after getting to know how it drives and behaves.
I feel like I do a pretty good job of driving near the limits of the car in the right conditions. Not saying I couldn't improve, though I feel like I am more skilled than the average driver.
Brake pads are not something I had considered. Ill definitely look into that!
"though I feel like I am more skilled than the average driver. "
^^ This is not saying much considering the glut of completely unqualified morons driving around these days
I'm not saying you're NOT a good driver, just that you should choose your wording more carefully
I think most folks that have taken instruction or even driven with an instructor (in the passenger seat I mean) quickly learn the difference between a "good driver" and a "real/good professional driver". In my experience the difference is stark...
Brake pads and tires - are the first place to start when doing any form of serious driving.
Agree with the comment above regarding Pros/ instructors vs good drivers/ students. Over estimation of one's talents is usually a costly lesson. Often learned by those with more dollars than sense.
I feel like I should tell you guys before you go too far with the assumptions that I cant drive just because I said I thought I was better than average....I've seen most all of the Fast & Furious movies, including the one where they drift, so...
I've also seen Smokey and the Bandit like 100 times.
Bet you guys feel stupid now.
Mods of note (not to everyone's taste but here is some of whats available):
Engine:
- Exhaust systems - mufflers / cats in various designs x-pipe etc / headers: I'd ditch the bypass and get 200CEL cats + sports mufflers + headers if the budget allows
- IPD plenum / Ben's plenum - Have an IPD would recommend I know others would not
- IPD plenum + GT3 TB - Yet to try this, others have recommended it
- 997 3.8 Carrera S or maybe the EVOMS intakes are the only ones i'd even think about + 996 - remove your K&N intake - its junk
- Under drive pulley - Have one don't have a baseline but it must do something
- Light weight flywheel + sprung clutch disk (I would not recommend it - but its available) - had one removed it, IMO don't do it
- Supercharger (definitely would not recommended)
- ECU tune - Yes but Dyno only not offsite/mail order flash
- FSI 3.8 / 4.0 bump up - If you've got the cash for a 4.0 DO IT!
- Motorsport AOS - no experience
- Accusump - no experience
- Deep sump - various brands - no experience
Suspension/driving:
- Adjustable suspension upgrades (Bilstein / Koni / KW / Ohlins) - Im on M030 - will do adjustable one day
- Poly bushes - No experience
- RS/semi solid engine mounts - yes yes yes
- Shifter mechanism: 997 or if the budget allows couldn't recommend Numeric racing enough
- Numeric racing cables - No experience
- LSD - have one - no baseline
- Trans mount inserts - no experience - two brands I know of FunctionFirst / Powerflex - Yellow seem to be the ones most are happy with
Non performance/longevity mods:
- LN spin on filter or LN IMS Solution
- LN magnetic drain plug
But really - as I've read many times on here before - driving lessons will make you go faster...
Think of someone you really dislike and you don�t care if their engine blows up. I wouldn�t put a K&N air filter on their engine. They are that bad. Overpriced, overhyped, terrible air filters that are a chore to clean. OEMs ditched oil bath filters before I was born, and I�m approaching fifty. K&N has threatened to sue me more than once. I�ve dared them more than once.
No surprise there! lol
Again, can someone explain how this intake sucks in more hot air than the stock box?
This is the kind of stuff im looking for. thanks!
Yes, the engine creates a fair bit of heat and due to it being in the rear doesn't get a huge amount of airflow to cool it down. As such the engine bay gets hot, the original box is of a closed design and air is fed into the snorkel into the box, across the filter and then into the engine - good. The K&N filter is essentially 'open' or unprotected from heat and allows the engine to suck in hot air from the engine bay - bad
Colder air is denser - more air more fuel bigger bang transversely hotter air - less dense - smaller bang. Same reason turbo engines use intercoolers to cool down air - to make it more dense.
Hope that explanation makes sense - either way IMO ditch the K&N I had a friend that did and said he got power back that he'd lost.
If you need any further detail on the mods I made mention of having experience with - HMU.
I get how cool air is better obviously, just how an air box full of holes draws less hot air than an intake that is blocked off from the engine and still fed by the same snorkel.
bottom of the factory box, full of holes
still fed by the snorkel, completely blocked from engine, filthy though it may be
either way, enough people seem anti K&N that its worth considering getting rid of, I just want to understand why I'm doing it and not just bc a bunch of people say so, you know?
Yes fed by the snorkel but the K&N allows the opportunity for the air coming in to mix with hot air because its open unlike the standard box. I guess if you completely enclosed the pod then that would work better. Check out the EVOMS box it creates a seal for the pod filter. Thats ideal:
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...6-dash-410.jpg
Also those holes are for water drainage the wouldnt allow much air to be drawn through them IMO.
Great thread Nick. I am on a similar journey. One of my key goals was a more linear and quick (as possible) throttle in track settings. I really felt like the stock 996 3.4L felt weak mid corner and during track out/WOT. Low end torque (under 3000 rpms is of no concern to me, and I don�t think I have lost any with these changes). There are many more experienced people than me who have chimed it, but these were the parts that I chose to get to where I am now. Always looking for more ideas...
Exhaust: Stock manifolds (ported), Catless x-pipes, B&B mufflers (These parts sounds great to me, AND a lot of mass off the rear of the car)
Intake: BMC filter, IPD plenum, Fabspeed smooth intake, ECU tune (specifically for this purpose)
Other: FF transmission mounts (quicker transfer)
Others parts on deck: FF motor mounts, FF bushings in a 997 shifter
Regrets: Getting the remote ECU tune. This really should be done on a Dyno with an expert. I think it feels great, but for the $$$, I have no results to show..
Please share the results of the parts you choose...
Other things considered:
*Underdrive pulley: Seems like a good idea, but most of what I have read was that it works best with a LWFW (which is not planned)
With a K&N it�s not about air temperatures but dirt. The ECU measures inlet air temp and makes adjustments. If you are worried about IAT, datalog it.
The oil in K&N air filters is known to ruin mass air sensors. You can search TSBs on the NHTSA database in this from almost every OEM.
Lastly, air filtration is a simple mechanical process of catching airborne particulate. Any particular media has a given ability to filter. If you want more airflow pick a higher flow media that stops less dirt or increase the air filter area. It�s that simple. So K&N air filters definitely have much less area than oem filters.... you figure out the rest. I did some experiments long ago they didn�t like.
Also when evaluating any car mod remember slick 50! Read the case the FTC filed against them too. I suggested K&N read it too. Most aftermarket stuff is intended to separate you from your money and make someone else richer and that�s it. The OEM engineers are fully capable of picking a big enough but oh so boring paper / fiber filter with tons of surface area to support the airflow for a given horsepower.
So if you like dirt and dirt related enginewear and less money in your pocket.... go for it. IATs don�t care.
After reading a bunch of other threads I feel like All this is a waste of money. I think Ill go back to a stock intake box with a BMC filter and just continue the weight loss diet and suspension work. Then when it's as light and tight as possible I can fine tune
Gonna have to delete this damn thread!
They got me for sure!
I actually originally did it for the sound but since deleting the mufflers I cant hear anything at WOT anyway
I've installed muffler deletes on my 996 and the power drop was really noticeable as soon as I went for a drive. Modifying the OE mufflers with bypass pipes is a much better option as you are not leaving HP on the table for the sake of sound. Speaking of sound. the muffler bypass sounds like crap unless the engine is near redline. I'm putting my B&B mufflers back on when I finally put the engine back together.
When you run the numbers - the most impactful thing you can do is weight loss. There's a ton of it in these cars to be had. The theoretical power to weight is about 10hp for every 100lbs. Things like the carpet that covers the rear shock mounts weigh 7#.... finding the first couple hundred aint that hard to do.
The muffler bypass pipes saved weight - but the power loss was too much in the low and mid range. I eventually went to cat bypass X-pipe, headers, and better mufflers by Fabspeed.
The most impactful performance difference on track has been the LSD... it changed the car (on track). Not sure how much use it would have on a public road - but I don't like to throw the car around on public roads anyway.
I had the EVOMS intake - I liked the noise but never noticed anything different. I went back to stock based on dyno results from Flat6. They have been huge proponents of the IDP plenum (and larger throttle body). Those really seem to be the only bolt on mods that they tend to like.
Lots of room for upgrade on the suspension... it just depends on what you want. Ohlins have been a great add for me... all of the other stuff is mainly for additional adjustment and to remove any rubber bushing items. A car that's all solid end suspension parts now is kind of harsh.
Also - if you don't have them - RSS or Wevo semi solid motor mounts are a HUGE improvement. Transforms the feel of the car. Same with a trans bushing (solid) but be aware of the NVH that WILL come along with it.
Get good tires and find a happy medium on brakes... the stock system is great with the right pads.
I've been through most all of the mods possible (I think) so let me know if you have specific questions. If I didn't do something - it was probably for a reason.
I've gone back to my stock mufflers after the new CA exhaust law went into effect. You really notice the weight of the mufflers when they're back on. And the sound of the bypass is glorious, especially in a tunnel, it will be missed.
Yeah I've been thinking a lot about more exhaust work. I honestly didn't notice any difference in power when I went to bypasses, but I'd love to have a more proper setup
Love your car by the way, I was checking it out a couple days ago.
for me... I did headers, x-pipe, fab speed intake, all new coil over suspension, elephant racing control arm bushings along with poly sway bar bushing (frt & rr) and eps front and rear trailing arms. those were the first year I had it... felt quite nice when I put it back on the road. handling was unbelievable and the exhaust FELT like it gave it a little more umph .
currently installing ipd plenum, light weight crank pulley, light weight fly wheel and clutch kit. We shall see
Thiers a few other mods but I cant remember at the moment.
That's kind of where I am... I just don't remember. I know that there's a bunch of mods - including a big motor - so it all just kind of blends together... lol
Im in the same boat as you Nick
As much as I'd love more power, I realize that with the stock motor, we're very limited.
My approach is to take out as much slop from the suspension/drivetrain as possible (within certain budget limits) to start then go from there.
I've already installed a short shift kit and have some RSS goodies and a ROW M030 kit waiting to go on. I'll inspect and replace other bushings as needed
Since my car is new to me, i'm catching up on maintenance and replacing everything needed to make it a "reliable" hoon-mobile. I'm huge on dropping weight and adding precision so based on how the initial round of upgrades/maintenance goes, i'll see how extreme i'd like to go.
I look forward to following your progress!
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ir-intake.html
Look what this guy did to reinvent the Porsche wheel with his K&N
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ir-intake.html
The problem is that you are comparing worn out OE parts to new aftermarket parts. Ofcourse they will feel better since they are new. However, it would be interesting to see how they would do against new OE parts. I'm willing to guess the difference would not be as much.
As for that future light weight flywheel. You know that the stock weight flywheel is an important part of balancing the rotating assembly? You install a lighter one and it will be out of balance. Unless you have deep pockets, you don't want the rotating assembly to be out of balance. Besides balance, the extra weight of the stock unit makes the car more forgiving when getting it going from a stop. Lighter is not always better.
Ask Jake how many engines he has seen with a lightweight flywheel and a busted crankshaft. Dual mass flywheel takes up the crank vibrations. I do not think a lightweight flywheel will gain you anything unless you balance the entire crank assembly and even then..... Just my 0.02 cents.....
Wasn't trying to compare the two just stating my experience with what I did in regards to the thread.
Have read way to many opinions one way or the other on do's and don'ts. from superchargers to cold air intakes and the fly wheel stuff.. everybody thinks the other view is bad. FOR ME if you seen my build thread... its a car and I'm having fun. when something breaks or fails.. lesson learned and I'm perfectly ok with that. I've talked to plenty who have praised the lightweight flywheel as amazing and no fails with it. We shall see
Like stated above, I hear ya but I've also heard others say the oppisate and I have a back up motor for this car so I'm going to keep having fun
hope none of that came across like I'm trying to debate it or be sarcastic.. just one of those guys who views a toy car as ... a toy car and nothing more lol
Having tracked my 99 C2 as a novice several times at Road Atlanta, this is what I recommend as far as mods to the car, making the assumption none of the mechanical components on your car are worn out:
1. Brakes. Once you are competent enough to get to 80% of the performance limit, your brakes need to work 100%, every time. You don't want any fade when you are entering a 90 degree turn at 60 mph. I am still running stock rotors and pads (Meyle rotors and Textar pads). They are relatively inexpensive, about $400 for a complete set. Replace all rotors and pads when they get near the minimum. I will need to upgrade to the Pagid pads soon. They are about $600/set. The brake fluid is very important. You can run the stock Porsche fluid at first, but you need to swap to Castrol SRF or another high temp fluid when you get to 80%. It's about $85 a quart, as I recall. It ain't cheap to track your car.
2. Protect the engine. Oil foaming and starvation will kill it. An X51 baffle in the sump and Driven XP9 oil should be the minimum. I installed the 2qt sump kit which comes with the X51 type baffle and the 997 oil return nozzles. Do not over fill the engine with oil. A little below the full line is best, especially if you have a deep sump installed.
3. Suspension. Mine was worn out, but it wasn't apparent on the street. When I took it on the track, it became obvious. I spent about $4500 getting all new arms and links installed, including RSS adjustable lower control arms ($$$) to give me more negative camber in the rear. It made a huge difference. I also purchased Ohlins coil-overs as a Christmas present to me! ($$$$) I haven't installed them yet, but I will before my next track day at the end of this month.
4. Seat. This wasn't an issue for me since my car was a former track car that came with Euro GT3 seats. You need some deep seats to keep your butt from sliding side to side.
5. Wheels and tires. I tracked my car with the stock 17 inch wheels and with 18 inch 996.1 GT3 wheels (Sport Design I think) 8.5" front and 10" rears. I forget which tires are on the 17 inch wheels, but they actually did pretty well. I ran Hankook V12 tires on the 18s and they also did well. You can count on replacing tires after a few track days. You will wear them out. I recently bought a set of 996.2 GT3 wheels and new Nitto tires, but I haven't run them yet. The bottom line is that any quality set of tires on any of the Porsche wheels will work for a novice, but you will want to upgrade at some point.
6. Cooling. I did buy the third radiator kit, but I haven't installed it yet. It was hot on my first track day (90+). We ran with Windows up and the AC on. My cooling system was completely stock and I only saw a slight increase in temp on the gauge. I will be a better (faster) driver this summer, so I will be installing the third radiator kit along with the 160 degree thermostat.
7. Under-drive pully. I am going to order the RSS pulley and belt being discussed on one of the other threads. Since the car stays above 4000 RPM for a half hour each session, this will help with longevity of the spinning components driven by the belt
I don't see the advantage of most of the bolt on engine or exhaust mods. These cars have approximately 300 hp stock, which is more than enough to get you in trouble. The only time I wish for more power is in the long straights. The 450 - 700 hp cars blow by me. 10, 20, or even 50 hp won't make a difference.
There are many folks on this tread with a lot more track experience than I have. These are just my thoughts after a few track days.
thank you sir. no hate for others who don't agree. I understand everyone has there own opinion and that's cool. I'm 42, have had LOTS of toy cars and stopped treating them like gold about 5 yrs ago. Now as I get older.. I just want to smile with the thrills of life vs worrying over the small stuff.
If your budget, skills or reservations doesn't allow for you to be a little more careless... by all means DONT. light weight flywheel... if I snap a crank, i'll make a youtube video so everyone can laugh at my sorry tail lolol I'm ok with that lol
My favourite track mod - limited slip differential - makes the car so much fun on track
Best go fast mod - Ohlins R&T coilovers - so much more composed at high speed
Favourite street mod - custom catless exhaust - awesome sound
Also love the semi solid engine mounts and Function 1st shifter
ECU tune really changed the powerband
Haven't done any real engine mods unless you count the deep sump and low temp thermostat - for engine longevity
Next mod - motorsports AOS
The exhaust and ECU tune were done at the same time, with dyno before and after. Peak power and torque increased between 5 and 10%. Power is moved up the rev band a bit and comes on almost like a turbo at about 4K. Yea, it was worth it to me.
Was it a custom tune or off the shelf? Who did it? Softronic says they get similar gains, it�s one of those things I�ve thought about doing, but other people say they don�t increase hp/torque. I�ve had great luck with aftermarket tunes on former cars (bmw, audi, vw). Thanks in advance for anything you can share.
I have to agree ^^^
Here us my input.
I paid up and bought a perfect 2003 996 Aero.
I invested nearly $20k on top of paying the long dollar for a car.
(Read my signature for mods)
If you do all your own wrenching, that softens the blow.
I track 3-5 days a year and an occasional autocross.
Do some maintenance and tweaking on suspension, it should be all updated oem or aftermarket.
Brakes freshened and new fluid, good fluid, done regularly.
Engine maintenance all that has been mentioned.
Up grades, they get pricey.
The return is very little.
My dyno is 298 at rear wheels.
But my horsepower and torque are a large wide powerband.
Make the car safe and reliable, that will cost you $10k.
Go out and drive it for while, spend money on track time
Just my $.02
Everyone keeps going on about these holes in the bottom of the air box but these holes are there for air to flow out of not into!!
Air flows into the air box through the snorkel using a ram air effect , the volume of air entering the bottom of the air box is a higher volume than is needed to feed into the engine, without these holes the air wouldn't flow smoothly through the bottom of the air box and would be turbulent and less efficient , the idea is a constant flow of cool air is passing down the snorkel into the bottom of the air box then out through the holes in the bottom , the throttle body only sucks what is needed by the engine out of that flow and up through the air filter into the top of the air box and into the throttle body, without the holes the air would flow down the snorkel into the bottom of the air box then become trapped , become turbulent and heat up !!
Here is a dyno sheet and video of a 3.6L with plenty of modifications
This build was designed and built to get as much torque as possible and for the longest band, you can see how long the torque band is.
You Tube
I have a LWFW, I purchased a balanced set from Patrick Motorsports, one of the only places I had found that offered a lightweight flywheel that had a pressure plate centifically balanced to flywheel.
I know this does not mean the same as a crankshaft balancing procedure that would include all rotating parts that are attached directly or indirectly to crank.
But it does aid in reducing the unbalanced spinning mass.
I know from the "old days" in drag racing, the heavy steel flywheels would increase measured "dyno" and actual torque, leaving the line at high rpms in a heavy car required the heavy fly wheel.
Direct contrast to LWFW that speed up revs, drastically, but the loss of applied torque would be very obvious.
Are there any engineers or engine builders here that know what the torque loss is when a LWFW is utilized in a build?
I can say from my experience , my rear tires are 12.5" of tread contact each.
Before LWFW, when the 5000 RPM launch control was installed via Evoms Stage VI tune, the car would ignite the rear tires. After the LWFW, the engine bogs and drops from 5000 rpm to less than 2500 rpm.
But......, the acceleration coming out of a turn, hitting the apex at the bottom of power band, the LWFW is awesome. It is a huge advantage in autocross.
This contradictory comments on applied torque to the rear wheels has confused me since I installed it.
Any thoughts?
-David
Yes, same day and same dyno.
As I mentioned, there were two mods that day - the ECU tune and exhaust.
I posted the dyno charts already, must be about 2 years ago but I'll see if I can dig them out again.
It can be a bit confusing, I'll try to explain, NOTE : I may confuse you even worse !! lol
Dyno's actually measure torque (twisting force), horsepower is mathematically derived from torque. Torque, times engine speed, divided by 5,252 equals horsepower.
If you are wondering where the 5,252 comes from, it is just the number used in the equation for HP and Torque in ft/lbs, if calculating in Watts and Newton meters a different calculating number is used.
If you notice on all dyno graphs torque and horsepower cross at 5,252, this is not a coincidence, it is part of the equation.
Changing the flywheels weight does not change the torque or horsepower of the engine, it changes the "inertia" of the rotating mass which is not measured by a dyno. A heavy flywheel can store more energy (inertia) and feel like more torque, hence the better launch of a heavy flywheel (up to 60lbs) in a Drag Car, or the tire roasting of a heavy flywheel in a street car, but what you are feeling is "false torque", it is actually inertia, stored energy in the flywheel.
I had always thought there was a thin line between inertia and perceived torque.
I understand how the spinning mass works beneficially in a drag racing application.
But what about our 996 cars being tracked.
How does it relate to acceleration coming out of a corner?
Is there any relationship between the weight of a 996 and where in the power band (as measured on a dyno) we should be at (rpm) for exiting a corner?
I am not sure if you are familiar with WGI, but the toe of the boot, is the turn that comes to mind as needing all of what are 3.6L engines can muster up, it is an uphill 180 degree turn.
This is where Z06s rule, but then that is short lived as they can be caught in the next two corners.
Light flywheels make taking off from a stop more difficult than with a stock flywheel. You will notice this as soon as you install one and roll out of the garage. It is not a stop and go traffic friendly choice. The engine will rev up faster because the rotating mass is less but it also unbalances the rotating assembly. So pick what is important to you. Unlike my diet, I want my engines balanced.
This is my kind of thread lol i love hearing everyone�s opinions non of it gives me any confidence in any of my choices and leaves me banging my head all over again lol
i guess ill (just being me) come back to just having fun with my car and learn as i go.
A lighter rotating mass will ALWAYS accelerate faster than a heavier one, given the same power/torque.
The only way a heavy rotating mass can be of advantage is when the stored energy (inertia) is released at a critical time (launch). A DMFW does help with drivability on take off on a street car, and smooths power pulses/vibration of the engine.
The peak torque is achieved on the 3.6 at 4,250 RPM, that is where you would get the most pull out of the corner. That said Porsche engines have a very flat torque curve to make coming out different corners at different RPM's better than an engine with a peaky torque curve that would coming out of say turn 2 great, but sucking at coming out of turn 5.
You can forget hanging with a Z06 after the turn and on the straight, they are a beast. With a weight of 3523 lbs and power/torque of 650/650 you have a weight to power/torque of 5.42/5.42..... On a 996.2 with a weight of 3000 lbs and power/torque of 320/273 you have a weight to power/torque of 9.25/10.9..The only advantage you have is the 500lb less weight you can handle better, go faster in the turns.
Some other power/weight ratio from cars of the era..
Model weight HP lbs/hp price
1999 Dodge Viper 3,380 450 7.51 $80,000
2001 Corvette Z06 3,115 385 8.09 $48,055
2000 Porsche Turbo 3,400 415 8.19 $118,000
2000 Ferrari 360 Modena 3,241 395 8.21 $179,000
1999 Porsche GT3 2,975 360 8.26 N/A
1995 Corvette ZR-1 3,535 405 8.73 $65,000
1999 Corvette C5 Coupe 3,250 345 9.42 $37,171
2000 Porsche Boxster S 2,855 250 11.4 $54,303
2000 Audi TT 2,655 225 11.8 $36,000
2000 BMW M Roadster 2,899 240 12.1 $43,743
It's been mentioned. I'll mention it again. The best money is spent on the nut behind the wheel.
Learn to drive. Then you can figure out where the next improvement should be made. Furthermore, you will know if you've actually taken a step in the right direction.
This is not to go against any of the suggestions regarding vehicle modifications. There are great - proven - lists of upgrades mentioned here. Balancing the money spent on upgrades to the car; should be matched with driver experience. Probably my only point in this thread....
Not debating what you said... don't rip me for saying this!!! Its just fun car talk guys Just a pet peeve of mine when people get bent over disagreeing
BUT... BUT I have to say when I got my boxster about 5 years ago and asked these types of questions over in the that forum everyone said "get training" I had to face palm. Most car guys have been driving fun cars since they were allowed to like me.
I went to the track and drove with an instructor who "I have XXX hours of documented track time" and was going to show me how its done....
Never being "trained" I was the 2nd fastest lap around the track out of a group of about 15 people. It was in a Gallardo and not a Porsche but training doesn't make your car faster and if your lacking that much behind the wheel... get a car with a bigger air bag lol I know Scott isn't saying that and I'm sure having someone go over your Porsche with you to help you understand its capabilities will benefit you but it's not a magic shot of Steve McQueen coolness behind the wheel.
Just don't agree with that default line that so many say on the Porsche forums "get training"
My 2cents... worth Half
I'm the short, pale and pudgy guy in that photo
ROFL be gentle ... my mom told me I'm a gentle man lol
now now.... don't make it out to be more than what I'm saying. I'm making the point that taking some lesson isn't going to make you and your car somehow magically faster. Weather its autocross, dragstrip or ripping it up on the street etc. Have some common sense, drive within your boundaries and know the limits of you car.
I live down the street from Lapeer drag way in Lapeer Michigan. When I'm there I can talk to guys who are making smoking times in the 1/4 .. one guy will say "I drop the hammer and let it rip till the end" another guy will say " I've matched up my cam, heads, stall and launch to a bla bla bla" and he to will equally kill it for a crazy fast time. complete opposite methods with awesome results.
my boxster had a 200hp... no class was going to make that car faster lol driving my car and learning the feels of it taught me how to drive it.
same car, different driver, and they get your car to go faster? Not magic. It's called skill.
Nothing more frustrating than dealing with more powerful cars with poor drivers on a track or on twisty roads.
"now now.... don't make it out to be more than what I'm saying. I'm making the point that taking some lesson isn't going to make you and your car somehow magically faster. Weather its autocross, dragstrip or ripping it up on the street etc. Have some common sense, drive within your boundaries and know the limits of you car."
Different types of racing all carry different skill sets, and they don't necessarily translate from one type of track or car to another. This doesn't mean that a great driver on one CAN'T do well on another - but it's certainly not automatic. The only things that translate directly are the physical and mental abilities of the driver - everything else is LEARNED. The best way to learn anything is through repetition. If you can get this repetition with guidance from a professional driver/instructor you will undoubtedly progress faster than you would without said guidance/instruction.
If you follow the great wise words of Colin Chapman you can't go too wrong:
"Simplify then add lightness" or "adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere".
I pretty much stuck to this philosophy; not so much to gain any advantage on a track but in order in improve the driving experience: control weights, connection, tactility, sound, weight transfer during cornering, braking characteristics and so on... I took a total of 559 lbs out of my car with the aim of retaining almost all of the design functionality such as 4 seat layout, NVH levels, carpets, trim...
Adding power would never meet the objectives I set out to achieve: which in simple terms was to produce the best 'drivers' 996 possible. Now the project is pretty much complete I guess I'll have to go out and drive the thing to see if I got anywhere close
Personally, if I was taking a 996 to the track, my priorities would be:
Safety equipment
Engine reliability: IMS, RMS, deep sump, engine oil cooling, power steering cooling, gearbox oil cooling.
Braking: better rotors, pads, SS lines, fluid, cooling.
Handling: weight, tires, suspension, set up.
Power
As for specifics, I would select from the items listed in the Spec 996 rules.
http://pcaclubracing.org/wp-content/...cing-Rules.pdf
SP996 rules start on page 26.
Hi Bill, the wheels are genuine Fuchs RSR wheels. They are a very light forged design. I went for these not only for weight and strength reasons but also to maintain the heritage/historical ties of Porsche. They weigh 7.5kg front and 7.7kg rear. Prior to these I did have a one-off set made in a custom off-set but they are no longer fitted to the car:
These three things will not just save you money, but help you spend the money (you will spend money and it will be more than you think) smartly:
Knowing what you want (see the caption) Street, AuotX or Track Day - and (big and) you must realize that the more devoted the car becomes to one of those the less adequate it becomes at the others! The factory built it for the street, everything you do will make it less a street car.
Asking for advice - you're here (rennlist) now and that's very smart! Learn from our mistakes and save yourself a ton of money.
Know this for a fact - if you are not already a successful professional road racer - you most likely cannot drive the car you have to it's full potential - get lessons and get seat time.
So, it's that simple. I rebuilt the engine in my car not for more power, but because there were traces of plastic and metal in the oil filter...ugh! And, so we tore it down. Scored cylinders, worn through cam chain shoes and an about to fail IMS bearing. Okay, so once you've paid for the labor of a teardown - you might as well put it back together with the best available stuff - we went LN 4.0 and all the goodies mentioned in this discussion from IPD, etc etc down to the ARP bolts n studs. We're getting 350WHP and 340 WHT on the dyno - the extra torque makes it easier to drive than it was stock and the extra HP makes it more fun when you put your foot in it. New upgraded clutch because the engine is already out. Now, that's a big financial investment and you need to protect it! If you build the suspension and put big track tyres on it - you are going to toast that investment due to oil starvation in corners. So, do the insurance thing: deep sump system.
+ 1 on the LSD, you'll gain a ton of time with that and you'll have a way bigger smile on your face. I wish I had one at every single autox and track day Ive done in this car. Someone mentioned engine mounts and transmission mounts and I think this can be a huge improvement from a pure enjoyment standpoint. These rubber mounts flex a lot, especially when old or hot, and sometimes it can be hard to find a gear when accelerating hard with any lateral load on the drivetrain. Stiff mounts suck on the road, but they make the car feel so much more precise on track in a number of ways.
Tires and brakes cant be underestimated, so much time to be gained in those two places alone.
I have a LWFW and don't think it adds much other than snappy down shifts and a lot of noise at idle.
I run the M&M catless x-pipe (bought from FVD) and it's great for track use. Loses some power between 3-4k on my 3.6, but it really feels strong all the way to 7k now. Changed the character of the power delivery entirely IMHO. Plus it sounds brilliant. Sounds faster = faster right? lol
Learn to drive. Then you can figure out where the next improvement should be made. Furthermore, you will know if you've actually taken a step in the right direction.
Said another way.
torque is the same. your heavier flywheel is storing more energy when you have it revved to 5k and drop the clutch....apparently enough such that you don't bog. For rolling acceleration light is better
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
