Need some help.

I am a Claims Investigator in California. My assignment was to take the measurement of the rear bumper to the ground on a 2001 Porsche Carrera 4. The insured has since totaled this vehicle and it is no longer available for inspection. The insured is now hospitalized in serious condition. This accident is unrelated to my assignment. I need to take photos of a measuring stick placed at the rear bumper, at the point of maximum protrusion, to the ground. I have searched the vehicle listings from Auto Trader to Craigslist and eBay. I was only able to locate one match and have yet to receive a response. I have contacted the dealerships and body shops in the area and they are unable to direct me to any documentation that would indicate the measurement. I am asking the members of this forum for links to any documentation that would definitively state the measurement needed, or if any member has this specific vehicle, to take the measurement and photos and send them to me. The vehicle needs to be on a flat, paved surface. I'm hoping for some assistance that will help me avoid a four-hour drive to the nearest candidate vehicle I have found. Thanks if advance. JT

Troll?

Did you say "Troll"? I'm simply asking for help determining the measurements on a specific vehicle. A link to any published details on the specific make and model, or the measurements taken by a member. I'm not sure why you would consider this trolling. In my three decades as a professional investigator with law enforcement, it has always been a standard practice to seek the advice of experts and those with specific knowledge of the subject of investigation. If the phrasing or verbiage of my original post was somehow inappropriate, please let me know and I will revise the post. JT

If you're in Southern California, please send me a PM with your email as I may know someone.

Thanks H911. Waiting for admin to enable PM function as I just subscribed.

Earthtrace: In the event nobody here offers an actual measurement you may be able to use Car-Part to locate one in a local junkyard to get the measurement from. If you can use the measurement off a stock 2000 C2 (non-4 version) I could provide that for you later today. https://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi

Also, would it not depend on whether it has a stock suspension or drop coilovers? Just asking....

Doesn't seem like too unreasonable of a request. Unfortunately, I have a 2004 C4S, and there were very slight body style changes from 2001 to 2002, and I don't know if that affected the rear bumper or not. I would probably not be the best source for your purposes.

wow, tough crowd today. if i could help you i would but i also have a 4s. good luck.

I do appreciate the help and the humor. The owner of the 996 is claiming that a 2019 Dodge Ram Power Wagon collided with the rear of his car and caused engine damage. There were no signs of impact or abrasions on the 996. It seems that if the Dodge had indeed struck the Porsche from the rear, the damage to the Porsche would likely have taken out the rear window if not completely driving over it. No signs of impact on the Dodge. It's got that massive front bumper with the integrated Warn Winch.

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I find it hard to believe there were no signs of impact on the 996 and on the Dodge. Seems fishy.

What is the height of the rear bumper of a C4 going to prove if there was no noticeable damage to the car and the truck has a winch that would make such a small amount of damage impossible to asses on the winch itself? Was there a police report from the incident for proof this happened? My daily is a truck and hitting the 996 at the rear, quarter or center, would be noticeable. Condition of the paint of car in question can be a variable (daily bruises or garage stored), but not a definitive.

Very fishy! Likely poor vehicle maintenance caused mechanical/engine problems. Always cheaper to get an insurance company to pay for the repair than out of pocket.

No police report. California officers do not respond to accidents without injury, if the vehicles are not disabled and causing roadway obstruction, or on private property. This guy is claiming it happened in a shopping center parking lot which is private property. Lot of red flags on this one. The measurements allow for the carrier to deny the claim for cause.

What specific �engine damage� resulted from this magical collision? Loud ticking sound perhaps ..... Please let us know if this claim is approved. That insurance company will have lots of new customers.

C4 Coupe specs including ground clearance

Pass, sounds fake to me. I can’t believe that a basic measurement is so hard to get.

Just a little insight from a guy who's been doing this kind of work for a long time. Insurance companies love love love to accept money! In all my years, I've never seen an insurance company decline a payment for premiums. Insurance companies hate hate hate paying out money. Crazy, I know. Next, you add to this dynamic a whole host of fraudsters, con-men, liars, cheapskates, and morons. It all adds up to me trying to provide irrefutable proof that it is physically (Newtonian and Quantum Mechanically) impossible for this guy's claim to be valid. Then the insurance company can tell this guy to pound sand. I think not paying out brings the company more joy than getting paid. If for some insane reason, the claim is paid, the only salve for this wound is for the insurance company to increase premiums. I've personally conducted investigations with five-figure budgets for four-figure claims. Doesn't always make sense, but it always makes dollars.

Easy enough to prove. Search Craigslist, eBay Motors, Auto Trader, CarFax, Car Gurus, and any other listing site. Search for a 2001 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 (not 4S or Turbo) with a 50-mile radius to 90803. I found one and he has yet to reply.

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So you are looking for an excuse not to pay the client? If you don't measure the actual car, everything else is just a guess and you know that but still going to use it to deny the claim, right? It will be a cold day in hell when I help an claims adjuster. This is not a personal attack on you but on the job you do.

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Wouldn't you have to prove the "known good sample" was in fact a known good sample? Seems like picking a random car off Craigslist only lets you know how the "damaged" C4 stands up to that one random car. Could there be slight variances if the bumper cover was removed, or even variances between vehicles from the factory? Since I've seen varying panel gaps on brand new cars (non-Porsche) that the allowable length could also vary when brand new. I don't know about the insurance company's attorney's, but I think a decent plaintiff's attorney could produce doubt in the "we picked a vehicle off Craigslist to be our standard." If it went to trial, it would definitely be an interesting one. Would a jury be more likely to be prejudiced against the insurance company or the Porsche owner more? ...hmmmmm

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These kinds of threads always get me. I've been in several accidents in my life. We've even tried to take Progressive to court over a declined claim when their client ran a stoplight and hit my mother. In the end, they won because their lawyer was able to convenience the jury that the light could have been malfunctioning. We had eyewitnesses from every angle besides the viewpoint of the driver that hit my mother. Almost killed her. Lost time and money. From here on out, I hate Flo and her commercials! Now back to this accident. I'm also a little apprehensive about why a claims investigator is needing the opinion of a forum. The last time I checked, every major insurance agency has the data that you seek. You must work for one of those no-name-brand insurance agencies. Here's my question(s)... Did the person in the 2019 Dodge Wagon claim fault? Are you representing them? What is their opinion on the accident? If this happened in the parking lot, did you have any witnesses? How about security camera footage? IMHO, it doesn't matter what the person that hit Porsche was driving. If the person in the Dodge hit another person's property, then he is at fault and should pay for the damages. The problem with this case is that the Porsche owner was in another unfortunate accident that totaled the car. That's where things get hairy when it comes to making things right.

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Sounds like you already made up YOUR mind in this case. What happened to being fair and objective in an investigation? Tell us, who are you representing in this case?

I backed into a child�s little red wagon at less than 5 mph and did damage to my 4s rear bumper that a professional couldn�t totally repair without a full respray. I find it IMPOSSIBLE that a Dodge RAM truck hit a c4 from behind, totaling the engine, and didn�t leave a mark.

Snitches get stitches!

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It took the "if for some insane reason" comment to be a continuation of his commentary on insurance companies paying out. "They won't pay, and if for some insane reason they do, then they raise your rates". I interpreted his comments to be as cynical as the rest of us view the insurance companies. As far as why it matters what the measurements are when there was no visible damage anyway...because it's an investigation. If any of this thread, and EarthTrace's motives and claims are real, he should be recognized for tying up the loose ends. Others have pointed out it should be easy to get...okay, then why hasn't anybody else offered it? Will it matter if the suspension was stock, and what tires were on it? Sure - but they already know what was on the claimant's car and he doesn't need to share that to get the info he needs. He's not providing a lot of detail because he's not asking for anyone to help him analyze the claim, he's asking for a measurement so that he can do it. Sometimes police turn to forums to help identify cars in grainy surveillance footage of serious crime scenes. They're not asking us to opine on the guilt of the driver - just tell them what kind of car it is. If EarthTrace is legit, it's resourceful. If he's not, I don't see any other purpose to what he's asking.

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Actually, no... the first paragraph was a general overview of the mindset of the insurance company in the opinion of the OP. The second paragraph was a personal opinion on this specific case at hand. Read it again in context. I'll format it for better reading. IMHO, the person - "Earthtrace" has been hired to investigate and dig up evidence to legally enable the insurance agency to deny the claim of the insured in this accident. He's not hiding that fact people!!! He said it in the second paragraph above and in post #17 - " Lot of red flags on this one. The measurements allow for the carrier to deny the claim for cause." It's highly suspect how and why the car was totaled shortly thereafter, but connecting the two accidents and proving insurance fraud would be a stretch, but what do we know? We haven't seen any information (i.e. post-accident photos, interviews, etc.) other than what the OP has shared. Since the car was later totaled, how is one going to know the exact ground clearance/height? Does anyone know if this car was stock height, lowered at the factory, or altered afterward by the owner? Maybe it was one of those jacked-up 4x4 rally cars? Who knows! Asking the forum for the exact height of this particular car is like pissing in the wind. Pointless. My best advice to the Earthtrace investigator extraordinaire is to find out where the car is being held in its current state - salvage yard, Copart, etc?? Was the car actively insured by the same insurance agency you represent in the second accident that totaled the car? Or did the insurance agency drop his policy after the parking lot claim? It wouldn't surprise me the Porsche owner wrecked the car for the insurance. People are doing some crazy sh*t these days to get money. Even at the risk of killing themselves. We had a problem with insurance fraud in Atlanta where people were actively creating rear-end accidents to get payouts from insurance agencies. Pretty crazy.

If I were a mod, this thread would be in the abyss by now. This is so stupid it is beyond belief.

Your point about his opinion acknowledged, it's still not alarming to me. He does claim that they knew there was no visible damage to the vehicle or the vehicle that hit it, so having come to a conclusion already is fine. That should be enough right there, but he's looking for more to say not only was there not visible damage, it's highly unlikely (or impossible) for it to happen the way you said, so there wouldn't be any hidden damage either. You're assuming that he doesn't have any information about the car and needs to find it. They may already have the information about the parts and setup on the car, except they can't measure the height because of its condition. I agree it's a long shot, I just don't see the harm in asking - what's the motive, if it isn't just to get information about the model of the car to prove a pretty unlikely claim. Like you said, it wouldn't surprise us to learn the owner wrecked for insurance - after he couldn't get the money to fix his bore-scoring called it on myself.