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YOUR RESEARCHI want a thorough explanation on why aftermarket IMS bearings have service intervals
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tail rotor chain
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I found out about his past when I asked what the bracelet was that he wore and turned out to be a tail rotor chain.
I want a thorough explanation on why aftermarket IMS bearings have service intervals
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Leading evidence: 'tail rotor chain' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'tail rotor chain' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check current imsb condition and the content of the oil' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
We inspected the IMS with each clutch and tranny service and found it to be near perfect each time so we left it in.
I want a thorough explanation on why aftermarket IMS bearings have service intervals
Install 2012
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I want a thorough explanation on why aftermarket IMS bearings have service intervals
Install 74,00
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
engine 58,000 when installed 74,00 when it let go.
I want a thorough explanation on why aftermarket IMS bearings have service intervals
Install before the car was shipped
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
After a very thorough PPI, I had an IMS Solution installed before the car was shipped to me.
I want a thorough explanation on why aftermarket IMS bearings have service intervals
buyer of the car will see
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Suspected cause
More than likely the buyer of the car will see that the IMS has been addressed, and see that the product brand that has earned the best reputation in the market was used.
I want a thorough explanation on why aftermarket IMS bearings have service intervals
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Years ago I had a machinist that worked for me who was a helicopter mechanic during Vietnam.
Title says it all. I am really curious as to why there is a service interval on LN IMS bearings (non solution) . It seems very controversial any time it is brought up. I have never heard a real in depth technical explanation of why these need to be replaced. Nor have I heard of any replaced aftermarket bearing failing due to age or mileage. If they do fail its almost always installer error. I will admit I have always felt it was BS. But I want to have an open mind and an explantation about this topic to better understand it.
Anybody have thoughts on this?
I'm not an engineer/designer/scientist so just my thoughts on the topic.
It's a bearing, and materials have a finite life. Many tiny little moving parts mean wear, heat cycles and such, therefore the materials will age and not be as durable as time goes on.
That said, the solution being of plain bearing design and fed clean high pressure oil will outlive any roller bearing design.
Why not go to the professionals and ask them why they have established a service interval for a bearing? LN Engineering
https://lnengineering.com/
Hint - all bearings have a service life, some more robust than others. It really is only a matter of time and use.
IMS Bearing Retrofit Guide
http://imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/
Mine failed. 2001 Boxster 2.7 had a LN bearing installed 2012. Bearing failed September 2019. Bearing had 5 year warranty...failed at about 7.5 years old.
No one's fault but my own.
I've got a '99 996 coming in about a week from now. It also had a 7 year old LN Bearing installed by FSI in 2012. After a very thorough PPI, I had an IMS Solution installed before the car was shipped to me. The LN bearing was still in excellent shape.
So, rather than try to figure it out or play Russian Roulette, just follow the recommendations.
Because you never know when the damn thing is going to fail..So you will feel better if you actually tried to do something about it, instead of just sitting around and let it bit you in the ***.
Especially if you have a single row, ( the factory dual row with the seal removed is a good gamble though)..
The factory should have had a service interval for the original bearing. Had they done that, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But Porsche chose not to put a part number on it or even offer a replacement until 2018 (which was a single row ceramic hybrid bearing). I wish they would have released a TSB. At least I have one of those unicorn kits on my shelf for posterity.
Good point.
The dual row IMS upgrade kit (106-08.4) for my 2000 C4 Cab was installed in Nov 2016 and the 2 yr "warranty for it has just expired. The "recommendation" is to replace this kit every 75k miles/6 years. There are less than 5k miles on the kit and it's highly unlikely that I'll drive it another 70k miles in the next 4 years. So, if I follow the "recommendation," I'll need to replace the kit by Nov 2023.
Frankly, I think I'll sell the car before that is required and hopefully it will not fail b4 then. Fingers crossed!
BTW, the dual row IMS Solution (106-08.40) comes w/a 5 yr warranty and unlimited mileage warranty. Since it is supposedly designed to last for the life of the engine, no replacement is recommended for it, but if the Solution somehow fails after 5 years, you apparently are just SOL. So, I'm not sure if it's better to treat the IMS as a regular replacement item whether you get the "Solution" installed or not.
Yep. I was going to post a link to the LN site. But I figured I'd sit back and see the comments roll in.
Didn't want to be the first to feed the troll...
One of my jobs has been 30-year aircraft mechanic for large airline.
The factory has extensively tested engine and every component of 996 and knows estimated times to failure. They could easily add to maintenance guide most components including wiring connectors and/or harnesses, and maybe they don't because it would show true costs of ownership for an older vehicle which to keep it at 100% is quite high.
Lacking manufacturer's guidance we make our own service interval estimates; for example we replace tires and lead acid battery around every five years, all exterior incandescent lamps every 3, wipers yearly, etc. Alternator, injectors, ground strap and y-cable, control arms ands struts etc etc, could be replaced on a mileage based schedule. Do that and replace windscreen and repaint body at 100k miles and vehicle would forever look just about new and virtually never break down.
We need more details on this:
What evidence do you have that it failed?
What is the history of the engine it was installed in?
Who did the installation?
Define "hardly any miles".
How will the 'eps' make things better?
What evidence it failed?, They pulled it out and was bombed
engine 58,000 when installed 74,00 when it let go.
history of the engine? overly maintained nothing ever spared
Ims LN 106082
Why eps? more oiling. and advise from Joe Anselmo motorsports who built my motor in O.C
He builds 10-15 a month,
Kind of pissed I went with the Ln as preventative maintenance on a car I drive
only on the weekend and cost me 15,000.00$
Just my 2 cents
Sorry to hear this. I find it very odd that the bearing failed within such a short interval. My suspicions are that something else took out the IMS bearing. This also brings into the question the condition of the engine at the time of installation.
So the car cost you $15,000? Or is that the cost of the IMSB installation? Whichever it is, I see a potential problem.
I had the Solution installed. I never understood the service time interval on LN’s ball bearings. Main reason I went for the Solution. I drive my car maybe 3000 miles annually. I don’t understand the relationship between time and bearing wear. I purchased my boat new in 2003. I drove it to the cottage about 50 miles. In 2005, I replaced the camper top with a cockpit cover. Drove trailer a 40 mile round trip. In 2016, boat went in for a water pump change. 20 mile round trip. So in total, my boat trailer has 110 miles on the bearings. Wheel Bearings are now 17 years old. I am not replacing them anytime soon. Will be repacked for the second time in the spring.
I too am sorry to see any owner go through this. Was the motor properly prequalified before install?
10-15 rebuilds a month? I don't see how he would have any time to sleep!
Using a base level synthetic as a break-in oil ,, worst possible solution to break in a bearing correctly..
I've never seen a good builder use synthetic to break in a high performance engine.. The few I know that do are
using hybrid/synthetic blends with a break in additive, easier for me to just buy a break-in oil. YMMV
So in the past I was a fan of LN bearing and they are a good product....however, I have switched to using this one with lifetime warranty
https://www.por-ims.com/
Uses roller bearings
It didn't just fail. You made another post on the IMS sticky thread about this a few weeks and that Joe Anselmo has seen "many" failures of LN product. When pushed for details, none were provided. What it looks like to me from your previous posts is that you didn't do your homework before buying your 996 in 2018. Good chance the install wasn't qualified nor registered as was probably beyond the service interval. I wish you luck with EPS.
For the same reason water pumps and timing belts are time in service or mileage, whichever comes first. Same with why ultra low mileage cars have been more prone to failures in years past.
The Classic Single Row IMS Retrofit has half the load rating (and a shorter L10 life) than the dual row bearing that replaced it, once Jake came up with the method and procedure to install the Single Row Pro.
Going back to the original poster's question, that's why it would have been useful for all had Porsche put out a bulletin with service interval for their own replacement that utilized a ceramic hybrid ball bearing like our original single row IMS Retrofit.
For the record, for those running around with a classic single row bearing, most, if not all the installations out there are past the service interval. People forget that our Retrofit kits have been in service since 2008. Let's see how the others fare when they've been in the marketplace over a decade with their lifetime warranties and no service intervals.
With all due respect, comparing a rubber timing belt failing over time to a metal bearing doing the same is a bit silly. The most common causes of water pump failures, at least in our shop, has been corrosion, running low on coolant, and worn or improper belt install.
If we may take the discussion to the next level, what component in the bearing fails due simply to age? I am not arguing with you, but I would like to understand at a higher level of understanding than described thus far.
Yes, I oversimplified things. For example, corrosive spalling/pitting can occur to the races, which we've seen in factory bearings. Cars that aren't driven daily are often driven short distances and don't get oil changes as often as they should. Garage queens have always been most suspect.
This has been hashed out numerous times over the last decade on countless forums. There are so many variables - oil change intervals, oils used, driving habits, environmental conditions, etc., all of which go into determining the bearing life. The best we were able to do is calculate an L10 life of 90,000 miles at an average RPM of about 3000. The lower average RPM, the shorter the life. We chose safe service intervals to try to ensure as close to a zero failure rate. But again, this is a best guess as we have no guidelines to go by from Porsche.
That's another variable. We recommend DT40 as it has higher ZDDP and added moly which help the bearing like it does with the aluminum bores, but I'm sure most people put in what the sticker on the car says to use.
I bet we'll see a lot of new owners coming here and claiming the same thing...Some people will just sell the car vs doing another retrofit leading an uneducated buyer thinking it's been done and all is good.
So I am no expert....but the reason I went with bearing I did was that a toolmaker friend of mine recommended based on the fact that a ball bearing is a point load vs the roller bearing distributes the load across a line. For this reason you can just use steel roller on a steel race with minimal wear. The LN bearing (Charles please keep me honest) uses ceramic ***** and a steel race which could induce wear. Again I would use either bearing since from what I can tell both meet my quality standards....I will report back if anything changes.
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How many years between the time of the LN bearing install and failure? How about show us some real proof. Photographs? Video of the engine tear down? Was the car originally pre-qualified by a certified installer? Seems to me that with so many things that can take out these engines, that a shop would find it easy to blame the bearing. Talk is cheap. I want to see evidence. It's easy for a shop that peddles another brand to say that the "other guy's" products are crap. Without proof, it's just opinion... and we all know what they say about opinions.
That's not how it works with steel races and ceramic ***** - a sintered silicon nitride ball would be an upgrade over a steel ball where steel ***** don't hold up :-)
We use CoorsTek Cerbec sintered silicon nitride ***** in our Retrofit kits.
https://www.coorstek.com/english/products/cerbec/#
https://www.coorstek.com/english/mat...oose-ceramics/
https://www.coorstek.com/english/mat...al-properties/
No disrespect, but you work in a tire shop for goodness sakes!
Water pumps on the Porsche M96 engines have plastic impellers that deteriorate over time and as they age, the impellers break off and block coolants passages. If ignored, the problem would lead to engine failure. Therefore, it's wise to make preventive steps and replace them BEFORE failure.
Charles Navarro has spent the better part of 20 years in research and development to find solutions for the Porsche M96 and M97 engine failure points. I think his analogy is spot on regarding service intervals, don't you?
This is getting interesting. My intent is not to troll, there has never been a real explanation as to what actually happens to the bearing over time or miles that makes it needs to be replaced. I am very invested in my 996 so I want to know a scientific reason for the replacement interval. I know everything in an engine has a service life. Usually bearings don't just fall apart. With a higher load rating and proper oil changes I could not understand why it needs periodic replacement. Unless maybe the engine was getting a full rebuild after 150k, maybe. Thanks Mr Navarro for answering some questions!
Actually, it's been explained over and over and over for years now
. Thus the reason so many get upset when a new IMSB post gets started. It's a good question that we all need to know the answer to.
Hello All, recently purchased a 15k mile 996 that still has original IMS. I plan to get the IMS swapped ASAP. Any recommendations on which one to go with? I've been doing some research, but still very new to this. I'm actually picking up the car this weekend and plan to drive it about 400 miles home. Hopefully i'm not making a huge mistake doing this!
I'll clarify load ratings as this is often mis-characterized. Just because a bearing has ceramic ***** doesn't make it have a higher load rating. A deep groove ball bearing as currently used in the IMS Retrofit can take up to 50% of the dynamic load in thrust. A traditional cylindrical roller bearing with thrust control can only take up to 10% of the dynamic load in thrust. A given bearing size will have a certain load rating:
The factory single row 6204 (or Classic Single Row IMS Retrofit) bearing a dynamic load capacity of 2900# with thrust max load rating of 1450#
The NJ or NU204 cylindrical bearing has a dynamic load capacity of 3750# with thrust max load rating of 375#
The custom dual row ceramic hybrid bearings used in both the Single Row Pro and Classic Dual Row IMS Retrofit has a dynamic load capacity of 4000# w/ Thrust or 2000#.
The Koyo roller bearing used in the RND Roller bearing has a
5800# dynamic load capacity with thrust 580#.
Sorry guys, this one got my curiosity. Just spent some time reading up on this Joe Anselmo. Just search his name in Linkedin.
He's a freakin' Porsche parts sales guy, not an engine builder!!!! 10-15 engines a month??? hahahahahahaha
Ugh.
No, we do full repair and not just tires, so you may stop banging your head on the wall. And I assure you that I have put more miles on the 986/996 platform than most both on and off track, so I feel pretty comfortable around these cars. My response was generic and not Porsche specific as I do not believe Charles' high level summary was necessarily meant to be Porsche specific. I think the majority of the population understands that things like rubber and plastic degrade over time at an advanced rate relative to metal. That was the point I was making and my question was asking about the specific degradation that occurs with a metal bearing as explaining that with comparisons to plastic and rubber seemed like stretch for me. Charles explained that very well in his follow up. (Thank you, Charles)
But do note, if you read between the lines, the time related expiration date is largely a proxy for the numerous start up/cool down cycles that a garage queen may experience and the infrequent oil changes. It really isn't based on the calendar. We raced a 996 for 11 years on the original IMS, and that car is still going strong with the current owner. We inspected the IMS with each clutch and tranny service and found it to be near perfect each time so we left it in. In part to prove a point to ourselves. The difference is that car was started infrequently, run hard each time, and complimentary services were done frequently. Same calendar as the garage queen, different result.
That's because the OEM (non M97 diameter) bearing LOVES high speeds. These high speeds reduce load, and make the bearing live. In short, a "racing" application lends it's self to a longer IMSB life, where the street is the worst case scenario, due to RPM, and the associated loads.
We never get calls from owners that say their race engine lost an IMSB. Those people grenade connecting rods, and a dozen other things, but they never lose an IMSB.
[QUOTE=my15window;16265423]What evidence it failed?, They pulled it out and was bombed
engine 58,000 when installed 74,00 when it let go.
history of the engine? overly maintained nothing ever spared
Ims LN 106082
Why eps? more oiling. and advise from Joe Anselmo motorsports who built my motor in O.C
He builds 10-15 a month,
Kind of pissed I went with the Ln as preventative maintenance on a car I drive
only on the weekend and cost me 15,000.00$
Just my 2 cents[/QUOTE
i got left high and dry by Joe. Promised an engine for one of my customers and then he got fired and never delivered.
I second this I got mine 1.5 years ago with 10k miles on it and that was the first thing I did. Make sure you get it prequalified and use a certified installer
http://theimssolution.com/certified-installers/
No. The impeller breaks off when the bearings wears out because the seal fails and then hot coolant washes out the grease. Relatively shortly after this, the clearance between the block and the pump impeller disappears and then snap, off comes the ends of the plastic impeller.
Vague. Need more data. Detailed information - Model of 996, year, original engine, modifications, original bearing? OEM or aftermarket bearing, amount of track time, etc. Do you have images?
Explain you method of inspecting the bearing for good health.
You have one car. One example. What are you trying to prove to yourself with just one example?
Yes.
It's my understanding that plastic impellers within these water pumps can erode like any plastic that is exposed to extreme hot/cold cycles and chemicals over time. Even if the bearings are good, the eroding impellers under resistance can break off. This is not just a Porsche problem.
Yep. That's why I hand picked every IMS Solution Certified Installer for further training, after they attended my hands- on classes. Each of them is held to a high standard, and we constantly train them. My next round of Certified Installer training is in January 2020, when they will also be trained for removal and replacement of engines that we are providing as part of the FSI "Premier" engine program.
Certified Installers have to stay current, follow a code of conduct, and they can't cut corners when it comes to pre- qualifications, IMSR processes, or bearing registrations.
FACT: There's never been a single failure of any IMSR product that was installed by a Certified Installer. Not one. Zilch. ZERO. Every month we average 3-5 engines that are reported as failing the pre- qualification for the IMSR by Certified Installers. These engines are not retrofitted, and if they were, they would fail in short order. These VINs are flagged, and we stand by to usually find out that the job was later done by a non Certified Installer. When complications occur, we pull out the records, and the broken hearts occur.
The system I developed for this is unbeatable- period. It's a series of checks, balances, and confirmations, all handled by trained installers.
it�s been a while but I believe it was a 3.4 996 engine. He was working for SSF at the tome but was selling engines on the side through a different shop. I don�t recall the name of the shop. He was fried because of this. All of which I found out after the fact.
That explains it! How long ago was this? His linkedin r�sum� says he left (or should I say "fired") from SSF in 2018?
At this point, I give absolutely no merit to my15window's accusation towards LN in his posts.
You can clearly see the contact marks on the block when the bearings starting to let go and the tip of the impeller starts to rub before is breaks off. I've seen this on different engines, including my 996.
The 928 crowd likes plastic impellers because the cast iron ones used to machine the block out when the bearings went and the block became useless.
I think this is all you need. If they claimed it as life time and it failed everyone would be up in arms but the design whether original or aftermarket is flawed and thus needs replacing.
Ball and roller bearings have no required "bedding in" period unlike the plain bushing style offered by a top supplier.
Synthetic oils are excellent lube
choices.
There are no "bad" synthetics so
a few quarts of Mobil 1 from Walliworld works well.
With the money saved you can change it more frequently which has more benefit than paying for more expensive products.
Bob
To be clear:
The IMS Solution (which is a plain bearing) has no break- in/ bedding required.
Since the day I invented the technology I've been installing the units, and after a 52 mile break in of the reconstructed engine, they go straight to redline for their first dyno session
.
Any "break -in" that is discussed is for the rest of the engine, and not particularly directed toward the IMS Solution.
Further, anyone who breaks in an M9X engine on full synthetic oil will get to do the job twice when their cylinders won't seal.
Right, for only $350 a month, you can peddle your products ..
I love what FSI is doing with there training video's, Hands -ON- Training, and On-Line training, also the Certified Installers program all bring a level of class to the M96/996 cars that will help in the long run of the cars well being, and overall perception. But I don't like the perception that no one else can do it, or the bashing of anyone else who is offering a competing or a lower cost product .
The "plane bearing Solution" using the old school technology is in my opinion the safest way to go to address the IMS concern, mainly due to the mode of failure is the least catastrophic than any other means of support for the IMS. When a ball bearing of roller bearing fails, it not only leaves large ferrous debris circulating, but leaves a huge gap from the missing rolling elements that allow massive flailing of the rear end of the IMS that can cause more damage, or even broken timing chain tensioners/paddles. The failure mode of a plane bearing is increased wear and clearance that will come on slowly with smaller debris and clearance and much less flailing that will be diagnosed way before it becomes catastrophic.
The Patent of the application of plane bearing for the IMS will expire in about 10 more years,(they are good for 17 years) at that time there will probably be more offerings of "plane bearing support" for the IMS, that IMHO is the best/safest way..
Just my .02 cents, carry on with the nonsense..
Quoting myself...
Just want to thank Jake and Charles for the technical input to this thread. The other guys that know about these cars - you know who you are - have contributed as well.
Great to be a part of such a community.
The prices to support this forum starts at 350.00, and goes up from there. It costs this much to give out the free advice that we've gathered for years, and of course, that cost us money, and days of our lives, too. It's really fair, isn't it?
If and when an IMS Solution "wears out" it'll just pick up a rattle like a worn out chevy with bad cam bearings. With those, you only hear it make the noise between gear changes, when the RPM, and load changeover.
How do I know this? Because I have induced wear by grinding on bushings, and purposely running debris through the oil supply line of an IMS Solution. Then the car was driven 8,800 miles in 10 days, from my door to Edmonton AB Canada, and back again. Tell me another soul in this industry that would do that, and I'll buy you a beer. IF you ever see an IMS Solution bushing wear like this, you pop the flange off, replace the bushing, and roll on. The DLC coated flange will never wear beyond some scratches in the coating. It won't fail, and shed ball or roller bearing material into the oil, and kill the engine, because it can't. It doesn't;t have those components to create the collateral damage.
No, this type of wear won't lead to broken chains, or paddles, because it didn't with me, when I ran an engine with radial clearance a mile wide. Why? Because the thrust control surfaces are not prone to wear, so even with a radially wiped out clearance, the IMS still maintains axial control. Been there, done that, ran the bitch till it blew up to prove it.. The IMS isn't what took it out, either.
How about instead of not being able to wait till, the US Patent protection period is over to buy a Solution, buying one now and supporting what it took to actually invent the damn technology? When the Patent period passes the copycats will have free reign, and you'll see junk being built, and sold to compete with the Solution. None of these will be developed, they'll be made from a "Chinese blueprint" of reverse engineering. No one will be smart enough, or care enough to develop the proper bushing material, and the units will fail- just like they did here in testing. The material selection, clearance, and etc took me YEARS to get right, and they won't give a damn.
As far as people not liking to see domination, well I can tell you that I don't play games that I don't intend to win. If someone steps into this arena, they better be ready for a fight, and they better be ready to not get much sleep while they try to learn what we've already forgotten. Instead of doing this, EVERYONE to date has half- assed things together, cheaped out, imitated, and lied. It's easier to do all of those things, than spending the time, and money to originate, develop, and run a business in the proper manner. They get a bigger ad, kiss some magazine publisher's ***, pay an ad agency to build them a fake reputation, so on, and so forth.
Meanwhile, we will continue to spank their asses the way that we always have, and if people don't like that, so be it. Last week I tested a 450HP 996 that breathes from 4.3 liters of fury, it made that power without any bolt on power adders other than an IPD plenum, and a GT3 TB, with a stock 3.8L 997.1 airbox. In front of me I currently have the largest M9X engine ever created, which should crush 500HP N/A within the next 3 months. It was built from a 2.7L Boxster crankcase, and is to be fitted to a 2007 C2S. Here's the difference between the stock bore size, and how the engine will live. What makes me tick is fighting the fight, which is why I made a pretty damn good Marine. There's nothing I like better than to fight. I want to make it very clear to those who want to play this game, that they'll have a fight on their hands like they've never experienced before. Consumers should thank me for that, too.
No, what you are seeing in this picture isn't everything, it is what I want you to see. The remainder of the systems that allow this aren't pictured, and never will be. Leave the rest of the cylinder suspension system up to your imagination.
No, that doesn't seem fair, seems like a lot of money to voice your opinion/give advice.
That's what I said about the plane bearing.
.
That's what I said also..
I'll probably be dead by the time the patent runs out, I'm 63, retired on SSDI fixed income with heart conditions. I actually had purchased 3 "IMS Solutions" when Pelican Parts had listed them for $795 each,(what I was willing to pay) but they realized their mistake and canceled the order as it was halfway on route to being delivered. They wanted another $2200 not to cancel, which is more than my SSDI check for the month. There were others who thought to use a "plane bearing" as IMS support back in 2013, but you got there first, good for you...
As a consumer I simply like more options, I can judge price vs quality for myself..
My Dad was also a fighting man, he joined WWII at the age of 16, then reenlisted for the Korean War, then worked at US Steel for 33 years, Thank you for your service..I have just been a Mechanic and car enthusiast for over 40 years, my fight is just with inanimate objects/car parts.
I have bought secrets from the Masters of engine builders/innovators, who were willing to publish some of there secrets, and if you ever want to publish some of your secrets to HP on M96, such as cam profiles,ect ( you know what they are,(not the assembly/disassembly type video's), if I can budget the cost, I will be a player...But if I am still able, I would build the engine using your specs myself, saving the labor cost and assuming all the responsibility/risk...like I always have...
I decided that getting the M9X assembly video completed was more important than finishing the book. The videos are now done. People will learn a lot more from these than any book.
As for specs, there's too many liabilities in the 21st Century to deal with. Everyone is looking for someone to blame when they fail, and that will always be the guy with the best reputation that told them what to do.
I could finish the book in a month, but I doubt I ever will. Hell, I was a Special Ed graduate, guys like me aren't supposed to write books, we can barely read them.
Sheesh!!!!....I have been a real fan of the 996 (it's my favorite car) and a fanof this forum but I must say, I am glad I have other cars so I can hang out on the those forums where the dialog is a bit more mature....
....oh, and another thing that confuses me.... Didn't Porsche invent the first IMS? (Rhetorical question)
Finally, I want to thank all of you (including Jake) for the wealth of information you have provided me in building myself the ultimate 996 I have made my own (and my forever car).
Happy Holidays to all of you!
Ernst Fuhrmann invented the IMS, as part of his 547/1 Porsche Carrera engine in 1953.
Porsche used an IMS all the way till 2009, though people don't know that..
The IMS is NOT the problem, in fact I believe that all engines need one. When you task a GM alternator bearing to support the IMS is when you have a problem.
BTW- The 547/1 Fuhrmann engine used a plain bearing IMS support and ironically the diameter of the journal is the exact same as my IMS Solution for the M9X. Ironic how I determined that size, huh?
^ And this is why I am so stoked for my Oct 2020 build. I know I will have a kick *** engine in my 911 that will last me a lifetime. Who else puts this much passion into their product??
1). Get a degree in engineering or read a book on bearing design...
2). Or spend years rebuilding M96/7 engines.
3). Or just accept you�ll never know everything and everyone will always know something you do not.
Your choice.
Or follow the manufacturers directives without question, rather than believing the service intervals are �vaporware� created to sell more bearings.
Bash Hat, You have been great to work with so far!
great answer.....not
Look, a lot of people here are in the same position I am in. My Ln ims is 5 years old. It has 12,000 miles on it. By the manufactures recommended service interval it should be tossed out soon. I just want to know a technical reason why this bearing is trash now. Or why if I sell my car someone is going to negotiate a major discount because of it. I change my oil every 6 months regardless of mileage. The car sits in a garage and only goes only on long drives. I think people here who say search button or troll don�t understand what I am asking. When a bearing is pulled out at its service interval what makes it recommended to replace it? Clearance? Noise? Dirt? Some great answers by the pros in here and I think the ims solution is the way to go. With how much 996�s get driven now that they are all 20 years old. They should all get the ims solution if they can qualify at this point.
From my background:
I used to service and maintain bike engines,, they all had splash oiled ball bearing mains back in the day,,, they lasted way better if broke in on Valvoline break in oil then switched to synthetic,, just was the way it was (With the tech and materials at the time.. Others may have different results, its all about the thing you've had to sort and deal with.. There are better and worse grades of oil, I've tried many ,, on and off the dyno, in various uses and in my mind there are oils both synthetic and standard that perform better in some applications than others,, I pay attention to the engine and see what it likes, various VVT systems seem to function best on specific weights of oil for instance.. My BMW and Honda liked very different oils, the BMW liked a 20w50 in hot weather and a 10W30 in very cold weather.. The Honda liked 0w20 all the time.. The VVT on the Honda would become harsh with anything heavier, and needed a full synthetic.. My 69 Bug wanted straight 30 weight.. anything else and it would burn it like crazy or would barely run when first started.. Found the cylinders seemed to hold up the best when run in with a non detergent hard for about 30 minutes, then regular 30Wt..
My first go-around with bore scoring was a 1600 CC Vw Type 1 that had Aluminum/Nikasil jugs,, Learned the hard way that little motor didn't like 6500 and conventional 10w40, but When the early synthetics came along that motor sang on Synthetic,, 7500 and 6 inches under the wheels..
My take/experience,,
Ball bearings do take a seat, My old Bug needed regular tightening of the wheel bearings for about 2500 miles after new ones were installed, Head bearings on bikes, Motorcycle and bicycle wheel bearings.. Even my go cart running dry ball bearings, gets a wash-out with WD40 to clean them between sessions,, then a turn to keep them in,, the weakness of the ball bearing is the point contact load that can under the wrong conditions dent the race, used to be an issue on older vintage race cars, you'd have to block the car when hauling to prevent the bottom ***** from beating on the race or you'd seize a wheel bearing at speed later. Is it the same now?? Haven't a clue,, Havent heard of it in years,, But material tech in the last 20 years has gone way up..
A bit of exploration:
I got curious one time and compared the Walmart shelf oils with a couple chain autoparts stores, and I can tell you that not all oil products are consistent rating across sources. Same with other products, if your company is big enough you can buy custom products that others cant, because of pure sales volume. two items I found pretty big differences in, that were obvious, compare the bottle specs from Walmart on your favorite oil, and compare tires. You'll find different / missing oil specs and differences in tire ratings.. Even though the packaging looks the same from 4 feet...
Ah well, just thinking .
Typically those old VW wheel bearings need tightening due to another reason.. The inner races that are pressed into the scrum rarely went in straight, and replacement drums were rarely machined squarely.. Whole different world.
I cut my teeth on Aircooled VWs, and I drive one everyday, while my Porsche cars stay parked.
did you drive it at all before having the IMS done? Im picking mine up this weekend and still trying to decide if i should trailer it home or if im safe to drive it about 400 miles home.
My response is no more offensive than your DEMAND for answers. Your lack of knowledge or effort to learn shouldn�t be blamed on others. All of the information has been presented ad nauseum. Don�t get all fake outraged, because I not everyone wants to spoon feed you.
Address the issue, or don�t; it�s your car do with it as you wish.
The poorly designed M96 IMSB, in 93% of all cases has not failed. This has been widely reported with little dispute. Many cars today have 100s of thousands of miles on original IMSB.
Now the really smart guys and gals working on P cars invented a better bearing.
One would think the better design would not require a service interval.
I am sure if you R&R the original P car IMSB with P car parts, in the same interval you would have the same or better results than the aftermarket ones.
Love that we have options today.
I am asking. When a bearing is pulled out at its service interval what makes it recommended to replace it? Clearance? Noise? Dirt
?
Once pulled you can't reuse it.
Here are some facts that are in your favor:
-The "service intervals" for the classic series of LN bearings were implemented as soon as the bearings hit the market, which is now approaching 15 years. This is not "new" information.
-This was in place when you bought your current IMS bearing/ had the shop install it. You weren't told about it, and didn't "research" it back then, either. Right?
-More than likely a purchaser of your car will be just as uninformed about this service interval as you were at the onset, even though the service intervals are, and always have been clearly stated by the Mfr.
More than likely the buyer of the car will see that the IMS has been addressed, and see that the product brand that has earned the best reputation in the market was used. They won't give a damn about anything else, and they won't pay attention until they get the car..
I'd say that you'll not have anyone bring this up when it comes time to sell the car. I'll end up getting a submission ticket from them AFTER they buy the car, asking the same questions that you have here.
We can lead humans to knowledge, but we cannot make them think.
Further, this service interval is akin to that of an engine that has a timing belt. In general timing belts are serviced every 60K miles per the manufacturer. If someone doesn't know this, or doesn't listen to it, then they get to pay their ignorance/ stupidity taxes that are due. That's how mechanical things work. They don't have to ask permission to fail, and you can do everything right, and still have a problem. If you want to put that into a different perspective, spend some time around helicopters.
This could not be more true today:
I'm sure water pumps fail but I am just not convinced they are such a weak link. Did my 00 Boxster (miss that car) at 50k. Blades and bearing looked and sounded good. As you probably know, I just did my 02 996 at 71k. Same scenario, everything looked great. What makes a water pump on a 996 more fragile than my other cars. I've had numerous cars throughout the years with well over 100k and never, ever had a water pump fail. I had a thermostat fail at 105k on a ford ranger but otherwise everything just worked. Is it the blade that is lousy?
I am so afraid to ask this question. So it is a consensus that JG oil is better than Mobile 1? Seems most of the big hitters on the board use JG. I've always used M1 but have a change coming up so might as well try if people think it is better.
Also, I just has a LN retrofit put in my car in June (02 C4S). The invoice said double IMS installed but I know the car came with a single being it's an 02. Did I buy something that converted the single into a double? I thought it was just a stronger single bearing but really didn't spend much time thinking about.
You may not be convinced, but it is a documented fact going back many years
. There are many other modes of failure to the m96 that have also been well documented and discussed here on RL.
These are not some "Nutty Professors" opinion...
JG oil has also been debated. Who are you going to trust? I'll put my money on the guys that know these engines inside and out (more than most Porsche trained technicians) and I'll take their recommendations seriously because they know better!
No, I think the pumps are pretty well made IMHO, but you should change them out preventively. Some people wait until they hear the bearing squealing, but I wouldn't wait until that happens. Water pumps are a pretty easy thing to change out from a DIY stand point.
I can't speak for the group because I know people hate oil debates, but I only use Driven DT40. You should pick an oil with high ZDDP and Moly, IMHO.
Virgin (i.e. New) oil anaylsis is a great way to compare the numbers.
https://www.speediagnostix.com/new-o...acing-oil-dt40
Here's a forum if you really get into oil debates....
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
Yes, based on what you're saying, this is probably the LN IMS retrofit that was installed on your car.
https://lnengineering.com/products/i...-106-0822.html
Third party IMSB service life is as much, if not more, based on desired brand reputation and customer expectation, plus a margin of error, than it is the theoretical in-service life of the bearing. Underpromise and overdeliver, not the other way around. For a part that people worry so much about it better perform to expectation, so set the expectation low (low years of use or low miles of service). Business 101.
Why should he? It's FSI' and LN's IP. I am glad they share as much as they do.
I'm glad Jake was willing to take the time to record a series on how to rebuild the M96 engine. Having taken his class, I have no doubt that the DVD's will be awesome. I've been trying to get on that waiting list since it was announced
Jake making money at this seems to **** people off. I don't understand the animosity. I can't even imagine how much money he and Charles invested in developing these products. Man hours alone are probably more than I want to think about. He deserves every penny he gets. Without the effort of Jake, Charles and others like them the 996 Would have been destined for the scrap heap as the engines failed...regardless of the failure mode. Now, we have options on preventative maintenance and even rebuilds.
Jake doesn't owe us the recipe for his "secret sauce" any more than Coca Cola owes you the recipe when you buy one at the corner market.
If circumstances call for it a manufacturer can say: "Initially a service life was specified to help ensure a critical component would not fail and cause catastrophic damage. Follow up long-term tests and real world usage have shown the service life limitation is no longer necessary and vehicle mileage since installation is now the only life limitation".
Age as a reason to replace these bearings is a strange concept but at the same time, I can understand the manufacturer wants to limit liability in case they start falling apart and at the same time wants to keep business going too. If you make a light bulb last forever and advertise is as such, the business will not last long but if you make a light bulb that last forever but advertise it that it needs to be changed every X years, well...... you get the idea.
Clearly the information provided by all of you I am thankful for but...
let's not fool ourselves....this forum exists to make money...YouTubers exist to make money...hell the whole internet is about making money...as a person in that business, the more exposure or eyeballs you get, the more money you make. It's really quite simple.
Oh...and I really don't care who makes money as long as it makes me happier👍
The LED lightbulbs that I bought at Home Depot with a 22 year life certainly haven't lived up to that!
Here's my take on it, as a someone in a business that manufactures and deals with many types of bearings, although they're not automotive. The basic principles of tribology apply to any bearing. It's a fact that bearings wear as they are used. There are obviously ways to reduce wear in a bearing, including lubrication, materials and design, but they still wear. Bearing wear often accelerates as it progresses, as the the bearing surfaces change in dimension. In the case of a bearing in an automotive engine, there are many variables that make it hard to determine how a bearing will wear. If mileage is used to estimate wear, it doesn't take into account all the things that cause bearing wear. For example, a car that has been in stop-and-go traffic with the engine running may have fewer miles than a car that has been driven on the highway, but it may have more hours of run time on the engine. It's possible that the car with fewer miles has greater wear to the bearing. Wear doesn't necessarily correlate directly to mileage. Another example is a car driven on the race track with frequent runs at high RPMs. That car and the engine bearings may have low mileage, but may have greater wear than another car because of the way the engine was used. I think this demonstrates the difficulty of measuring the service life of a bearing in an automotive application.
I may be totally wrong with my thoughts above, but it makes sense to me.
That's a funny analogy, I prefer Pepsi (drinking one now), can you imagine what life would be like if Coke-A-Cola, had left the Coke in their "secret sauce" ..
Not to derail the thread, but Red Bull Cola was banned in Germany a decade ago for containing trace amounts. You would have needed to consume something like 100k liters for a high.
Got it, thanks. I was thinking more of the number of cycles and how that contributes to wear. There are many other things that impact bearing wear. Again - I'm no expert on this, especially on automotive bearings. I was just trying to reconcile it in my head.
It's not available. Classic released samples for eval and the part number leaked out. We ordered two kits and shortly thereafter the part disappeared from the system.
There are some interesting takeaways. First, they used a single row 6204 ceramic hybrid ball bearing. Just like we did when the Classic Single Row IMS Retrofit came out.
The other one I noticed is the manufacture date for the flange and bearing versus the kit.
No, its not that way! we are supposed to spend our lives learning all of this, and spending our own money to "give back to the community". We are supposed to "support the hobby" by offering discounted products, and we are supposed sit on forums all day long giving away information, while it costs us 350 bucks a month to just be here. Me, well I am supposed to be a broke *** "mechanic" robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Oh yeah.. My videos, yeah the free ones on Youtube aren't good enough, and the ones that will soon be sold will be too expensive. Good thing that no one can tell me that I sell them for too much money, because I'm not even going to sell them!
Its a screwed up world that we operate inside of as vendors. None of it makes any sense, and enthusiasts simply hate to see anyone, make any money off of their beloved hobby, despite the investment of life, and money that it has taken to create the businesses that each of you see a VERY SMALL part of. Just like the comments made above, where someone threw out a very unfair statement about the replacement intervals being fabricated simply to sell more bearings... It's all for money, right? Hell, I drive around in 40 year old VWs, and can't even enjoy a Porsche, because people making these comments make me feel like a jackass for being successful enough to own what I have.
Now, this whole new breed of Porsche owner showed up with the 996. In the aircooled days I NEVER experienced this! NEVER! The owners of the cars would only bring their car to a shop where the owner, and employees charged their passion for the brand by driving Porsche cars too. In those days, you'd not get any Porsche die hard business unless you were as successful as the customers were, and shared their love for the cars by owning, and driving them. Today, it has gone basically 180* from that. I have lived through both eras, and built my reputation in both from scratch. 996/997 owners don't even thank us for our work, it is just expected.
Put simply, I'd love to go back to the barn with a dirt floor where I started my craziness, all I'd want is a heater this time around, so I wouldn't have to spend 1/3 of my time splitting firewood.
I see the same thing around the track,, the younger car owners a relentless about
how vendors are overcharging.. for everything.. Most of them quite well off, they
have made money on their skill, yet somehow if you work on cars your somehow
taking advantage.
Any retail outlet you walk in to works on a 15 to 30 percent profit margin but car guys
are supposed to do it for free.
Doesn't help that for every honest guy,, there are 2 shysters that have milked owner
after owner dragging out projects and milking them dry. SOOO many flakes in teh industry
Funny thing on top of that is my rates were very reasonable (Hobby business and very part time) ,,
but it was always a sour grapes attitude at the end, even when they won,, when they had to pay up.
I typically charged 150 a day for trackside support ,, Typically a 10+ hour day. Included full car tuning,
Maintenance work (Customer paid supplies and parts) I had more than one car win the season,
and multiple track records.. They were getting their moneys worth.. I was less cost per race weekend
than a pair of tires. I finally moved on because I just got tired of listening to it. I help an occasional friend out,,
But no interest in living it any more.
You are generous with 15-30 (many retail, dependant on industry, are in the 50-100% range)...and they gladly walk into high end coffee places and spend $2-5 on a cup that cost $.15. What is the saying? ....you can have good, cheap or fast, any two.
No I did not drive it at all. It was trailered to the mechanic for evaluation and PPI before I bought it. We live on the opposite side of NY state he from Buffalo me from Albany. I met the seller at the mechanics and agreed to pay him $500 just to bring the car. We spent the morning talking and then agreed on a price. He had never even heard of the ims issue. He told me that if I did not buy the car he was going to leave it there and have them do the ims. There were a few other things that it needed. i.e. water pump etc. and we then agreed on a lower price. I took an uber to the train station and went home. 3 weeks later my car was ready and I took a train back out uber to the mechanic and picked up my car. What a joy to drive home on a sunny august day with the wind in my hair! Been a joy ever since
#1: People are jealous and can be dicks about people who work hard to get to the top of their chosen profession. Many, but not all, folks today want something for nothing.
#2: Your videos are an excellent resource and I don't see other vendors spending this time and money to produce such educational information. Sadly I still see people asking "how do I do this?" when it has already been covered in one of your numerous free videos and shared here over and over. I guess it is too hard for someone to actually spend time looking for the answers. Instant gratification is demanded by some
#3: Again "I want something for nothing" syndrome rampant in today's society.
#4: Not all 996/997 owners...
#5: And if you did go back to a dirt floor shop and I needed a reconstructed engine I would ship my car to you for the work in a heartbeat...
Time = money, right?
Everyone values their time, but most people don�t value yours at all and think you owe them something. Being hardcore libertarian makes me lucky.... No F�s given if you think anyone owe�s you anything which is why the OP bristled at my reply, and other�s �round here.
These vendors only owe you what you pay for. Common decency says you should be thankful for anything beyond that, but most people are commonly indecent today.
A pretty popular suspension tuner won�t even take phone calls without a $200 or $300 consultation fee. If this forum pushes certain vendors that way, I wouldn�t be surprised.
When you take the M96/7 engine class, you learn from multiple experts. Three of them don�t contribute here because of stuff like this. Two do, so count your lucky stars. One of them specifically avoids this place and national organizations because of this dynamic. I understand why.
I really appreciate all the free knowledge and info shared from a great group here. But those that come in here demanding or thinking anyone in life owe�s you something, I�m gonna call you on that BS all the time.
1- This the "ME Generation". Its all about me, me, me.. What it costs ME, what **I** can get for free. That's why people can't do anything for themselves anymore.
2- The videos have been a huge undertaking. The work that goes into them is unreal. Thank you for noticing.
3- Yep.. "ME!".
4- I did make a blanket statement there, but an exceptional 996/997 owner (like you) today was the "norm" 20 years ago. They were ALL like you. I dirndl;t have to make people fill out worksheets to see if they were jerks that had an unreal expectation back then. I dealt with anyone, and everyone, and all of them were golden. Today things are a 180 from that. I find that owners are indecisive, and generally demanding. I can only imagine how bad our reputation would be if I dealt with everyone that comes this way.
5- Ironically I built a 150,000 dollar engine (at the time) in that shop with a dirt floor, and the car at the time was worth 800K. It did have a concrete floor back then, but it was still just a barn. When the owner showed up he needed to take a leak, and asked where the bathroom was. I told him to go out back, and anywhere would work just fine. Nope, not exaggerated. See that wall of broken stuff behind the Carrera lightweight? That's my education.
I woulda thought the GT/Singer type crowd woulda been the demanding ones and the 996ers (assuming most of us aren�t multi-millionaires) would be more down to earth and reasonable. I guess being a dick applies to all income brackets!
Nice �fine adjustment� tool there Jake!
That's a different crowd. Note I am referencing the way things used to be, not how the Aircooled crowd is now. Lots of the current owners of those cars are in a whole different category, and were never Porsche enthusiasts back then.
There's jerks everywhere you go today, and when you refuse to deal with them, they you become the jerk. I've had to acquire a 6th sense to sniff them out, and usually I can do so with only needing to see how they form their first written paragraph to me.
I'm selling all my Aircooled cars in the spring, just keeping my old 912E, because it has a VW engine, and I don't feel like a jerk when I drive the car. Probably because I've had the car since I was having to take trash out at a local strip mall to feed myself.
Whats really funny,,, is that there are "enthusiast" cars out there that cost way more
than a 15 to 20 year old 911,, and nobody blinks an eye.. Like a S2000, or several other sports cars,,
Hell a lightly used BRZ cost more than a lot of 996/997 cars.. A new Jeep Gladiator is what 50K??
The thing that seems to burn a lot of them is that the car can actually live up to its rep.
Not many cars do exactly what the manufacturer says right off the lot..
Most casual interactions,,, folks are shocked my C4 is a 2003. Heck a kid born the same day as my car is in college..
I agree.
dealing with owners everyday, I can say that these cars are way too cheap. They have the same cost of ownership as when they were new, or even more.
A Porsche can cost more to own, than what it cost to purchase.
A low purchase price sets a precedence all to often, and I hear �I only paid xx for the car, so I can�t justify xx to fix the engine�.
Every damn day...
Yeah, I don't get that. Especially when the end result is what
should have come from the factory.
Glad you're around to give the advice and insights from your experience.
Yep. I�m right there. Will be spending more on it over the next 12 months than I paid for the car. But you know what, it�ll still be less than half the price of a 992, but will have double the bad-assness 🤘
Well, 9 pages in and we are not much further ahead.
These cars are designed and built by humans, not magic elves in the black forest, all of them have had one failure mode or another since the beginning.
Fast, cheap, reliable, pick two.
You pay your money and take your chances.
"
996/997 owners don't even thank us for our work, it is just expected."
Well, I'm a 996 owner with an LN Solution, and a combat arms vet and a guy who's worked the following 40 years in the field as well.
And I want to say,
Thanks, Jake. I appreciate your dedication to your passion, to our benefit.
I bought my first Porsche in 1984. I couldn�t work a crescent wrench. I was lucky enough to have really smart and helpful people around who helped when the motor in that 914 went �BOOM� in the first week of ownership. No PPI had been done, and I learned a lesson. Once it was fixed at a price I could barely afford, I found other people who showed me how to rebuild pressure sensors, tweak TPS switches, and set computer pots to keep it running. Over the years I bought other cars, and some I worked on, but many others were left to the pros.
Every Porsche has its issues. As an example, my SC got a pop off valve and Carrera tensioners update as soon as I bought it...I hadn�t done that with my �69T, and I had worried every time I hit the starter on the T. I did replace the T�s cruddy Marelli distributor though. I didn�t buy a �74-�77 because at the time, the head studs were a known weak point...Early 911s had carb issues, �80s Carreras had distributor drive belt issues, the 964 had dual disc clutch issues, the vaunted 993 had valve guide and CEL issues and on and on...we put up with these things, because the cars return such a great experience behind the wheel, and are pleasing to look at when parked, or under power.
My car passed inspection and I now have a Solution, which I�ll have checked at next clutch job. If it needs to be replaced, I�ll have it done. Mechanical stuff wears, and to prevent breakdowns, parts get replaced, often on a schedule to prevent failure. That�s reasonable, and responsible. Is it possible that part could last longer? Sure. The choice depends on YOUR personal aversion to or acceptance of risk. I spent my career managing risk on a daily basis, and Jake and The Solution is part of my risk management strategy. These cars are at point where major repairs are really expensive- so I work to mitigate that risk. Having lived at the bottom feeder end of the Porsche world in my early years of Porsche ownership, I know how the $$ can be eye watering. I didn�t have the $$ room to manage that risk then. That unfortunately cost me some significant money, and created worry. I�ve learned that making decisions based on $$ spent now, may really cost you and your car later. YMMV.
.
Porsche owners by nature are intelligent OR educated and like to make our decisions on our own.
Limiting access of competing ideas or products to favor a current large advertiser only diminishes the integrity
and impartiality of the forum.
Look at all options yourself and don't be spoon fed or denigrated because you've asked the ruling party a valid question.
I know poor old gas station mechanics who are better at their trade than 'part replacer' helicopter mechanics.
50 years in the 'pit' tells you who's a good player pretty quickly.
The issue is that today many of them "educate themselves" by Googling a bunch of crap. They end up reading things written by people that don't even change their own oil, but they'll tell you how to build the engine. They are then dumb enough to believe it.
Ok troll, you are trying to do a hit on the wrong guy. I'm not a Helicoptor mechanic.
You got two posts and this is what you come up with? Are you a paid hit man? You got your PMs turned off?
Years ago I had a machinist that worked for me who was a helicopter mechanic during Vietnam. I found out about his past when I asked what the bracelet was that he wore and turned out to be a tail rotor chain. He was a great mechanic albeit a little crazy and told stories that would curl your hair. It was entertaining to hear how after a repair the pilot would demand the mechanic go with him on the shakedown flight. Good incentive to do it right! I have no problem with helicopter mechanics.
Old post, but highly relevant. I used to fly and owned an aircraft or two. Most also have flat six or four cyl engines with a set TBO of 1600 or 2000 hours. Here is the big deal folks often do not grasp. Regardless the cost of the plane or the age to keep it certified and airworthy with the FAA it cost exactly the same. You could buy a 20 year old Cessna 310 for instance for under $100K back when but the annual maintenance was the same as a brand new one for like $600,000. Prices are a lot higher now. Operating cost the same, maintenance the same. Make that more maintenance for the low initial cost, just like these cars. I have not had to be up on rebuild prices but I'm betting a rebuilt typical Lycoming IO360 ( 4 cly single engine air cooled ) is more than what guys like Jake charge for a much more complicated rebuild on a 996/997. Like aircraft, Porsches have a very long life if maintained well. Its just not free and might not seem worth it to everyone.
_______________
Gutsy, after my Dad enlisted for WWII at 16, he was a crop duster. He got busted for "barnstorming".
I've been up a few times in small aircraft with a few buddies, but wasn't comfortable enough to want one, even after taking over the controls for a while. I'd rather have my feet on the ground.
I had a GM of the dealership I worked for in the early 80's want me to fly with him to take his newly acquired twin engine Cherokee down to Selma to have the AC mechanic check it over.. After the tedious pre-flight inspection , we took off for the 2 hours flight, I flew most of the way. We got to Selma and the AC mechanic wanted to fly us back and keep the plane for a few weeks to do some engine work. He didn't do ANY pre-flight inspection, just jumped in and rolled the flaps and gunned it... ON the way back I learned the whole reason for the trip was to get a low oil pressure issue repaired on the right engine !!!
A week later the GM landed the Cherokee and had forgot to lower the landing gear !!!
Per your request:
�IMS SOLUTION
Unique approach and design of the IMS Solution makes it the only permanent fix for problematic Intermediate Shaft - IMS - Bearing in Porsche � M96 and M97 engines. By completely eliminating rolling elements, it backdates the IMS to plain, oil-fed bearing - a bulletproof solution used in aircooled engines, as well as in 911 GT2�, 911 GT3� and 911 Turbo� Porsche � cars.
Additionally, included spin-on oil filter adapter uses a full-flow oil filters: with IMS Solution installed, 100% of engine oil is filtered (unlike in the factory cartridge-style filter with bypass).
Designed for the life of the engine, IMS Solution kits carry 5 year limited warranty with no mileage limit. No replacement / service interval is needed.�
"996/997 owners don't even thank us for our work, it is just expected.".....Jake, I know you get a bit excited, but that certainly isn't totally true. There are many, many people on here who repeatedly state how thankful they are for your participation, have purchased your products, or attended your classes. I thought the class was great, I have found the online videos interesting and educating, and I think it is great that you participate in the forums. I also plan to contact you about engine work in the future. You don't owe us anything and you have a right to make a living off your work. In my case, our very first interaction was before I knew about you and your reputation and I was overly suspicious of the other party involved. If that interaction happened after I'd learned more and got to know more about you, it would have been a different interaction altogether.
Porsche 'broke in' thousands of engines with factory fill Mobil 1
You need the get the cylinder 'hatch' right and no problem.
Penn oils are excellent but their
zddp is said to compromise cat convertors $$$$$$$$
Penn offers a low zddp breakin oil that makes sense .
It has been verified (many years ago) that the factory fill is not the off the shelf Mobil 1. They most certainly use a break-in oil.
There is no such thing as a low ZDDP break in oil. You do find conventional non-detergent oils that have less ZDDP that have been used for decades as break-in oils, but the reason these work is that lack of detergents allow the anti-wear additives to do their job.
The ZDDP levels in break-in oils used a very small portion of the overall life of the catalyst won't affect it. High oil consumption from scored bores does more damage.
I pulled the sample that Charles is talking about, from a brand new crate engine that we bought, and took apart before it ever ran.
BTW- European cats don't have issues with ZDDP, only Asian and domestic cats do.
These engines see so much fuel, and secondary air, that ZDDP never hurts them. We've ran test oils with triple the amount of ZDDP that is supposedly "too much" and not even those cars had a problem with cats.
So, even if ZDDP did hurt the cats, what's more expensive, a pair of cats, or an engine that needs all 6 cylinders addressed? You can buy more than 10 sets of cats for what the engine cost~
BTW- With Lokasil there is no "hatch" in the cylinders. Stop confusing this engine with the other things it is not.
I've wanted to ask this for some time now.
Would there be any benefit by sending you a new factory short block and have you do your magic vs sending you an old broken engine that needs to be cleaned up before fixing and upgrading it?
With the supply of cores today, I'd think the new engine would cost a lot more.
Doesn't matter to me.. I absolutely LOVE to throw away brand new parts.
It would be a quite interesting project to collect as many different sources of a mainline brand Mobile 1 as possible and test them..
Based on my own experience all sources are not created equal..
The Mobile 1 in the gallon jugs from Walmart even smells different than the 1 quart bottles I've bought at NAPA..
Delo 400 from the industrial supplier, has a totally different odor/ look , color than the off the shelf bottles.
But alas,,, I am buying a new engine and I can't test them all.
So it will be Motul most likely.. I buy it for my bike and its engine
is so much like the general construction of the M96.
And I like oil I can buy quickly.. Not on a internet purchase.
I've used driven oils they work great. But so does Redline and a few others..
Quality..
I just ordered a case of Joe Gibbs/Driven GP-1 15w-40 (recommended by JR/FSI) from LN Engineering and had it at my door in two days with free shipping... It would have cost me more time and money to drive to the local auto parts store to pick it up myself. It's not cheap, but seeing as my engine cost north of $20k, $95/for a case of 12 qts. every 5k mi. is well worth it.
12 qts. for me in Canada of DT40 is $175 US. Ouch Ordering from LN Engineering would be even more. I recently made a minor purchase from LN (oil plug, 5 washers, 2 oil filters). Ended up getting a $30 brokerage fee. For all my Canadian brothers and sisters, maybe LN can mail stuff to Canada versus UPS.
Hey Charles,
hope I didn�t sound like I was complaining. I should have called and had you mail the items. It isn�t the duty but rather the brokerage fees. Things that are mailed rarely get charged duty for values under $200.
My order was $54. Shipping was $34. Brokerage was $32. Essentially shipping and brokerage cost more than the order. $66 to ship a $54 order.....I should become your rep in Canada lol.
Not sure how my indie who installed the Solution got it. I think he may keep them in stock.
My order was
100006533 btw.
It would appear that the rules may have changed for oil. We're looking into this and also shipping by USPS for Canadian customers for orders under $2500. Long story short, orders over $2500 require special paperwork that we pay UPS to file, which we cannot file ourselves with the postal service.
