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YOUR RESEARCHBrake Fade in Your 996?
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Replace significantly
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
One of the things that testing revealed (and it isn�t surprising) is that on new pads, the pad temperature isn�t changed significantly.
Leading evidence: 'Replace significantly' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check rear-view mirror' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
If you do not need to brake during a track event, check your rear-view mirror.
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Suggestion
There is no way you can properly set your car for corners using a gearbox alone.
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Suggestion · Original poster
) more recently we had testing done on a Meritor Quadraulic Fire Truck caliper at Greening Labs in Detroit where the CoolShims prevented caliper seal failure by reducing temperatures twenty percent.
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Suggestion · Original poster
One of the things that testing revealed (and it isn�t surprising) is that on new pads, the pad temperature isn�t changed significantly.
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Suggestion · Original poster
) more recently we had testing done on a Meritor Quadraulic Fire Truck caliper at Greening Labs in Detroit where the CoolShims prevented caliper seal failure by reducing temperatures twenty percent.
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Suggestion
The (non pro) track driver would certainly have to brake harder if the gear he was in was too high a gear for a particular part of the track before a corner whereas a (pro driver) would be in the correct gear at all times and using the compression of the engine to assist in any braking needed.
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Hey everybody? Having troouble with brake fade? CoolShims makes the solution and Pelican Parts has them for 996s from '99-'05.
The part listing is here:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...r=PEL-FP917-HD
Brake FADE.. Now that's a new phrase that should catch on to get the crazy modders rockin... My 996 doesn't have any brake fade it stops on a dime from over a hundred miles an hour. Brake fade my ****...where's the ****ing wall again.
2003 C4S. No issues with fade here. Except right out of the car wash! All is perfect from highway speeds down to emergency braking. No tracking for me so maybe this is a help in that regard (?).
Easy on the wall, err I mean your head.
My WAG is the hardware is targeted to track usage.
KrazyK asked the right question, or nearly did. Where's the before and after brake temperature numbers?
My first thought when seeing the pics is while the heat sink looks impressive the heat still has a limited path it can follow to arrive at the heat sink. I admit I'm no thermodynamics wizard having forgotten the 3 laws of thermodynamics years ago so maybe this concern is just me and my lack of knowledge.
Good idea but if it worked i believe porsche motorsport would have already done it on their cup cars.
At least with these you can finally make your car look like a computer !
joke aside, with the proper fluid you can't cook the brake... -> if you don't apply the pedal for no reason ... brake hard for short period of time with constant pressure.
I would assume these are targeted at track use well and would also like to see before and after temperature readings. I will say that I was surprised at how much more quickly you can start getting a soft pedal when your pad thickness starts getting low and heat is more easily transmitted to the fluid. I wouldn't be surprised if these worked just fine as long as you're getting sufficient airflow across them. My bigger concern would be clearance between these and the wheel.
Anyone used these? I'm considering buying them for an upcoming weekend at CMP but would like to see some evidence that they work in real-world situations. In response to Hurdigurdiman, if you tracked your car you would understand why these could be useful. Try some hard braking from 100MPH 30-40 times in 20 minutes, your brakes WILL fade if they are factory spec.
If you need those god awful things for your brake system... I think it is time for you to go out and purchase a Cup car and join forces with Patrick Dempsey racing.
I don't track my car BUT why all these alterations to brakes and disks and the devil knows what when Porsche makes 996 car noted for it's ability alone to handle street and track straight from Stuttgart? Makes me wonder if the Rennlist forum drivers are 'up to the challenge' to be on a track in the first place, if they have to make drastic alterations to the 996 car. The (non pro) track driver would certainly have to brake harder if the gear he was in was too high a gear for a particular part of the track before a corner whereas a (pro driver) would be in the correct gear at all times and using the compression of the engine to assist in any braking needed. Result :- less hard braking. Would a Pro Driver put up a faster time around any track in a straight 996 than a (non pro) driver in a 996 with all those alterations? Hey just saying and wondering. If I was doing 100mph and wanted to brake I would be in 4th gear and braking lighter than ever I would have in 6th. My car does over a ton in 3rd.
A racing Pro Driver would never have to brake hard on any race track. IMHO. If he did he wouldn't be on the track much longer. lol.
Yes, these brakes will EASILY fade on a fast track. I've had mine smoking so bad when I came into the pits (totally stock system) that I had to drive around at about 30-40 mph just to cool them enough not to worry about something catching fire. My black car, set up for the track, does not have this problem.
As awesome as the brakes are on these cars, they are not set up for the track as delivered stock. They WILL cook on a fast track.
stock brake pads -> fade
track brake pads -> no fade IF you don't stay on the brake more than pro driver do...
as newbie you will most likely brake a lot more .. hence brake pad + extra brake scoop = happy average driver
If you are tracking the car, then proper track pads and brake fluid will improve brake performance. Plenty of 996 based cars being raced in PCA, NASA, SCCA, etc with stock brake calipers and stock size rotors. Like others have said, add the GT3 Cup brake scoops, put in a good brake fluid like Castrol SRF, Endless, or Motul 600 or 660, along with a good race pad from Performance Friction, Pagid etc and you will be good to go.
Not to open a new debate, but Porsche changed the game plan and the water cooled 911s were really not designed to go straight to the track. The GT3 has become the showroom-to-track car. It has been noted in many threads here that if you plan to seriously track your 996 you had better make some mods, including brakes and oil lubrication system.
This is a bit of an older post, but I thought I would add some comments since I just signed up as a vendor. Previously I had someone else posting for me.
I invented the CoolShims years ago after a friend fried the brake seals on his 240Z at Mid Ohio one Summer. After I built the prototypes and installed them on my 204Z I was surprised to see how well they actually worked (
http://www.fourproducts.com/coolshim-technology.php
) more recently we had testing done on a Meritor Quadraulic Fire Truck caliper at Greening Labs in Detroit where the CoolShims prevented caliper seal failure by reducing temperatures twenty percent. Here is a picture of the Meritor caliper and the data. It is hard to imagine how big that caliper is � I should put a ruler in the image or something. And yes, there are issues with this huge caliper failing on several vehicles � you don�t hear about it much. So, while you can upgrade your pads to higher temps and your brake fluid to a higher temp fluid (but a little bit of water in the fluid can change that dramatically) it is the seals that are the weak link. Getting the heat out of the caliper piston and brake pad interface is just a good idea � if there is room.
We did real world testing at Streets of Willow on a modified 911 several years ago. David Bouzaglou of TRE Motorsports was driving it and I was getting the ride of my life in the passenger�s seat. During that testing we saw an average drop of 15%.
I was watching the Canadian Grand Prix this weekend and even some of those cars were losing their brakes due to overheating. While I admit, I am surprised that a 996 caliper can have issues, getting the heat out of the caliper piston brake pad interface will always help. One of the things that testing revealed (and it isn�t surprising) is that on new pads, the pad temperature isn�t changed significantly. We planned on testing this as the pads wear down, but haven�t yet.
The cars that see the greatest benefit are the classic vehicles with the undersized brakes and solid rotors. We recently released CoolShims that can be easily modified to fit inside the smaller wheels on the classic vehicles. They also hold up better to debris and dirt.
A pro driver could probably turn a faster time in a stock 996 then most of us not using the brakes at all, but why would they?
There are a few turns on every track that require threshold braking if you want to drive the track correctly. That's part of the fun of track driving. I've been told a lot of things by the instructors on track but never that I was braking too hard. My last session at Laguna Seca my brakes were fading and I'm a complete beginner. (And I thought I was braking hard until I did a few laps in the instructors' cars, they'd about put you through the windshield if you weren't in a harness!)
Interesting product but I'd start with race pads and fluid and go to these only if I was still overcoming the system.
If you think the Pro's don't work over their brakes check out the front rotors on the corvette in this video at 4:29
Exciting GT2 finish at Laguna Seca - YouTube
To rip off Robert Duvall / Apocalypse Now: "I love the smell of burning brakes in the morning . . . . it smells like . . . Victory"
"I don't track my car but..."
Track your car and you will know that higher level drivers go through brakes just as fast or faster than lower level drivers. There is no way you can properly set your car for corners using a gearbox alone. With that said, I rarely have seen much brake fade on track with track fluid and pads. I have found that my tires start to fade before my brakes.
It probably has a lot to do with the track and the conditions as well. I can understand not having brake issues at Willow Springs where there are only 9 turns and they are far apart. But at Streets of Willow with 14 turns or Buttonwillow with lots of turns (depending on configuration) and all of them in the desert.
My bottom line on anything like this is have you seen it on a race car ? if you haven't and its not written out by the rule book then I doubt its of use.
The bigger problem with brake cooling is normally getting sufficient airflow around the disk and caliper.
Its a cool idea obviously adds unsprung weight but not a lot.
As was said before before after brake temps.
ttreat, that was a polite way to correct Hurdi's misconceptions. To wring the most performance out of the car, you want to be accelerating or braking - hard - as much as possible. Coasting into a corner (or downshifting and engine braking into a corner) is time being wasted. If you do not need to brake during a track event, check your rear-view mirror. Those people lined up behind you all want to kill you.
If you can't smell your brakes, you're driving like a sissy.
The people who aren't using up their brakes hard enough wind up sanding down the front tires, courtesy of understeer.
If I was doing 100mph and wanted to brake, I'd be in third gear, standing on the brake as late as possible. Through the wheel, the pedal, and my ears, I feel and hear the "ch-chchch-chirp" of the tires slipping
just
a little without triggering the ABS pump. The car bleeds off speed at a ridiculous pace, dumping HUGE amounts of heat into the pads and rotors. I start rolling off the brakes as the outside suspension loads up with g-force from the curve. Milliseconds before I miss the apex (because I suck), I blip the throttle and pull it down into second and then roll the power back on. The 911 and I blast into the next straight, trailing a cloud of dust, gravel, and one or two cones behind us.
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