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YOUR RESEARCHShopping: 996 or 997
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Fill with good karma
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996 dash is minimalist and well designed, filled with good karma.
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As others have said, buy what you prefer, in the best shape possible, likely the newest one.
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Lots of incremental changes all piling up like compounded interest on an investment.
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It should the cost of an oil change plus about 2 - 3 hours of labor to remove the sump, perform the scoping and reinstall the sump.
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There�s probably more than 20ft-lbs there on the 996.2, and that small change really makes the car feel faster.
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Drove a Carrera s that was selling here in Houston I believe the car was on BAt, anyway compared to my 3.4 99, this 3.8 set on sport with the sport exhaust on and no other modification clearly was faster.
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Hello,
I'm in the market for my first 911. I like the traditional coupe, manual, naturally aspirated. This will be a car that gets driven (not daily, but definitely not a garage queen). My budget puts me into either a 996 or a higher mileage 997.1. I fully understand there is "no bad 911".
Which would you seek out and why?
Cheers
Condition and documented service history trump pretty much every other consideration, including mileage and generation. Manual coupes are plentiful enough that you should have a decent selection.
In my case the only non negotiables were manual coupe RWD. The one I really wanted was a lowish-mile �03 speed yellow coupe with almost zero options except for Porsche script side stripes, Carrera wing, and sport design rims. It had some tasty mods (fab speed exhaust, GT3 TB, SS brake lines, coilovers). But the guy was selling it out of a warehouse, the car was warm when I got there, he wouldn�t let me drive it (not registered or insured), and he wouldn�t even let me arrange to have it taken to a nearby shop for a PPI all at my expense! As much as I wanted that car and as undisciplined as I am, even I walked away.
Go straight to the 1999 Ocean Blue Metallic 6 speed manual 996 Cabriolet with the saddle interior. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Best car ever, hands down, exclamation point, finito! How do I know? Because I own one and I love it and you will too!
997 is the safe/boring choice. I'm genuinely surprised how much the 996 has grown on me, especially with the turbo bumper. I still look back as I walk away. I also thought I'd hate the interior but now it does not bother me at all. Once the rev needle gets close to the 7 none of it matters.
Test drive both models, and drive them hard, don't listen to any of us! One (or both) will speak to you and that's the one you buy! The car chooses the driver like the wand chooses the wizard, my HP joke of the day. Good Luck
+1
Bore scoring is the biggest issue to watch out for these days, so have the bores scoped, top and bottom, before pulling the trigger on the final contender.
I was in the exact same position and market as you. I just bought a 99 996. I’ve driven both cars on a number of occasions and honestly the 996 is just as fun a drive. The base 997.1 is a pretty vanilla drive, the 996 feels a bit more connected. I ended up with a C4 and would advise you not to discount them. I really find very little drive difference with the C4, and the 996 AWD system is very simplistic.
I�ve had a 997.2 C4S and a 996.1 C2. Both great. Cant go wrong with either choice. They are very similar cars, so this really comes down to personal preference. 996 is a bit more raw, in a good way. 997 is slightly more refined, in a good way. I spent a lot less on maintenance on my 997 because it was a lot newer, and also I kept it stock, whereas my 996 I modded almost immediately. I prefer the drive of my modded 996 to my stock 997, but preferred the stock 997 to the stock 996. A lightly modded 996 is a very satisfying car. Stock for stock it�s not a night and day difference.
you are correct Mike. I�m looking at a two owner 07 Carrera S and they already did the clutch IMs, rms. Anyway the big iff is the possibility of scoring. The car is in Iowa. How much should I be paying for the boroscoping???
A number of comments:
For me, I think the front of a 997.1 is better looking than a 996.2 or 996.1. The rear of the 996 to me is better looking. I think because the tail lights are above the bumper. Now for the interior. For the 997.1, between the silver, black and gray, too many colours for me. The NAV that was an antique when the car was released is way too dated. The interior of the 996 is plain. I hate the dummy switches for the rear window on cab's. But overall, I prefer the interior of the 996 over the 997.1 (997.2 is another story). The 996 interior is more minimalist which is my preference. As others have said, buy what you prefer, in the best shape possible, likely the newest one.
Regarding a PPI. Call around to where you will be purchasing the car to find a shop that can do a proper PPI. They will provide you with the details of what they do, general expectations etc. My car came from a Porsche dealer. I still went had them take the car to my indie of choice for the PPI. The indie did the PPI in 2 stages: Stage 1 was basic overall inspection. Findings were broken passenger seat power button, leaky RMS. I was called once this part of the PPI was complete if I wanted to proceed to stage 2. Mechanic stated that in his opinion the car was in very good overall shape. I authorized going to stage 2 of the PPI. This was to do the leakdown and borescope the cylinders. Car was confirmed to be in good shape. Was about $300 canadian for stage 1. If I recall properly $400 or $500 for stage 2. Dealer replaced the power seat buttons and reduced the price of the car by $1400, the estimated cost to replace the RMS.
Within 2 weeks of picking up the car (45000 miles), it went to a different shop for the solution, clutch, flywheel, RMS, water pump and aos. Car was qualified with a sump removal and additional borescope. Findings were all confirmed from previous PPI.
They have to pull the plugs and coils from the top, and remove the sump plate, so it�s a few hours� time. The plugs might as well be replaced if they haven�t been at this point.
yes I have seen all the videos, Jakes. Bore scoring etc. I know exactly what has to be done. Since I�m actually looking at more than one once I�m ready with my choice I�ll be reaching out to find the right Indy.
I've officially buried my head in the sand with all these problems. I noticed my friend who knows zero about these cars just seems to enjoy his a lot more than I. I listen for noises, he listens to ACDC.
With that said, PPI is a good choice. These cars get real expensive real fast.
996 vs 997, who knows. Drive them both.
I have a fair amount of seat time in a 997.1 C2S coupe and ended up opting for the earliest 996 C2 LSD coupe I could find (though I did look at a few 997s). The 997 is an absolute monster of a car and I think they're one of the best looking 911s ever made. The performance envelope is way beyond a 996 in terms of power, grip, and composure. Not sure anyone could be disappointed with one. That said.. the early 996s offer something different. What they lack in outright performance they gain ten fold in visceral feel and feedback. They move around at street speeds alot more and feel a touch more playful. This isn't much of a surprise considering this has been the tale since the first 911 was followed by the next. Going to be this way for as long as people will compare one generation of 911 to the previous one. Every year/generation what you gain in performance you lose in feedback.
Drive both, see which you prefer
Interesting take on the early 996 being just as fun considering you had a 997 GT3
I disagree with your comments on power, grip, and composure. I feel as though they are very similar. There is a difference, but I wouldn�t characterize it as �way beyond�. I�d say it�s an incremental increase. As far as playfulness, I�d say the 996 does move around a little bit more. A lot of it has to do with the condition of the old 996 control arms, bushings, and suspension components. I find my refreshed suspension 996.1 to be very similar to the 997.2 I had. The 997.2 did feel a bit better constructed and solid, but then again were comparing a newer car to an older one. Overall, I agree with you, though. I just don�t agree with the size of the difference that you stated.
I haven't gotten the chance to drive a 997 yet. Customer has one and is happy to let me drive it. Brought it over to use my durametric to clear a code. Beautiful car. While I like the 997 headlights better. Its not that much better to justify the extra cost. Both are cabriolets, his manual, mine tip.
I have 33k miles in the seat of my 996.2 4s and 3k miles in the seat of my 997.2 4s and they are extremely different cars, mostly due to the power difference, but also due to PASM sports suspension on the 997 vs stock on the 996. Until driving the 997 100% of my Porsche experience was in my 996, never drove another 911 in my life. I push my 996 very hard year round in all weather and it has never let me down. The factory sports exhaust sounds great starting around 4k and 3rd gear is glorious through twisty backroads. It gets compliments everywhere I go and not a single person has ever commented on the headlights!!! The 996 4s feels light and sporty yet clearly planted at all times.
My 997.2 4s I would never describe as "light and sporty". It feels more solid, more refined, more modern (it is by 6 years) & angrier if that makes sense. 50% more hp, lower suspension and after-market super loud exhaust might explain this dramatically different feeling, but it is so different from the 996 that its hard to believe they are both 911 4s models just 2 generations apart. Most of the same twisty backroads I've driven dozens of times in my 996 are not as enjoyable in the 997, but as a touring or track car the 997 is what I'd drive every day of the week.
Drove a Carrera s that was selling here in Houston I believe the car was on BAt, anyway compared to my 3.4 99, this 3.8 set on sport with the sport exhaust on and no other modification clearly was faster. The owner went with me so I never got it past 6,000 rpm but this 3.8 really has a lot down low compared to my 3.4. Yes it�s a bigger and heavier car. Anyway I saw one last Saturday at the concourse show here in Houston with fab speed intake, gt3 throttle body, ipd plenum, fab speed headers, softtronic tune 450 hp. That�s a bunch. Personally, I would like to get my hands on a Carrera S. My car and this Carrera S are definitely two different cars.
�10 years of improvements� is not accurate. It�s not as if they gradually improved the 996 each year for ten years and you end up with the 997.2. Is the 964 not similar to the 993? The 996 and 997 are very similar and share many parts. You can swap shifters, intakes, control arms, mounts, etc... They use the same roofline structure. It�s not a completely new car. Yes... it has more power, but to be honest it�s not a night and day difference in everyday driving. The 997 is definitely faster, but what I�m saying is that without equipment to measure it, it just doesn�t feel world�s different. I said similar, not equivalent. Handling is also similar. Once again... similar, not equivalent.
@Optionman1
said it�s a huge difference, but if I�m not mistaken, he has an FSI engine installed in his 997.2? That is not a realistic comparison to a stock engine 996.
Yes, they did improve the 996 year to year, actually. Whoops, one of their improvements was a big mistake (drinking the IMSB). Adding cup holders, a glove box, interior updates, improved power and a better torque curve, offering an AWD model, etc. Then comes the 997 and with the .2, direct injection, way more interior updates, revised suspension, lowering the engine in the chassis, PDK arrives, round headlights, etc.
But I see what you are saying. Even with all these changes, and most new Porsche 911 generations have up to 80% newly designed parts, the reality is, these are small, incremental changes. Evolution, not revolution.
My point was more about the wide range of changes to cars between generations can be a larger impact than just a single model year, and that an S can be a big difference compared to a base model. For example, and this isn�t a fair comparison maybe, but a 2000 Boxster versus a 2000 Boxster S is a noticeable difference.
You�re right, the 964 is probably not much of a difference in driving feel than a 993. These 911s usually just still feel like how a 911 should feel. I remember driving late 1970�s and early 1980�s 911s. Some would say the G50 gearbox in, say an �88 Carrera is night and day from the 915 in an �84, and that makes a huge difference. Yes, the transmission feel is completely different. But the cars aren�t. Sometimes those small differences are perceived as big differences. The 1999 996.1 3.4 engine has 296HP, and a pretty flat torque curve. A 2002 996.2 has about 20 more HP, but what�s really noticeable is the torque bump from 3,500-4,200. There�s probably more than 20ft-lbs there on the 996.2, and that small change really makes the car feel faster.
I guess it�s up to the prospective buyer to determine what they notice and what they don�t when it comes to these differences. I hated my 2006 BMW M5, mostly because of the SMG transmission. I felt it ruined the car. Fortunately, there�s a lot to pick from in the years that span to early 996s and the late 997s.
Yeah, I�m not saying they are the same. Just similar. We wouldn�t really say a 996.1 and 996.2 are completely different to drive even with the 20 HP increase. Essentially, they are the same car. Cup holders, IMSB, glove boxes, etc.., aren�t things you�ll feel on a drive. I drove my friends C4 a few days ago. Negligible difference with the AWD. Steering felt slightly heavier. I�m just speaking from my experience having owned both a 996.1 C2 and 997.2 C4S. I suppose not everyone would agree with me, but I just don�t think it�s a gigantic difference in how they drive. It�s not the same, but they are close.
I wss comparing the 996 to the 997.1, not the 997 GT3. There is hardly a Porsche produced that was as sublime a drive as a 997.1 GT3. The base 997.1 and 996 are much closer in performance, and I�m pretty sure that�s what the OP was considering between.
Buy both and return the one you don't like as much.
I'd say they're comparable within reason for a street car. Should you care beyond that, a difference will be more noticed, especially NA vs turbo in both regards. There's so many variables between the two I like both and have no real preference.
While I have only had my 996.2 C2 for 3 days. I am obsessed. I love it. I think I need to address a few things, but it is a joy to drive and it is reallllly sharp. I do believe the 997 is slightly better looking though. Even though I love the 996s, and our oddly shaped lights, I still do feel that the front end of the 997 is better - but the interior, while updated, didn't check the boxes I wanted to check. I am turning 30 this year, and my first few cars in high school were my dads 99' E39 540i M-Sport, late 90's or early 00's Saab 9-3 turbo cant remember year, 98' CLK320, 97' & 00' Audi A4 turbos, all manuals (except the Benz of course.) We switched cars a lot. Sold, bought, traded, etc. The character and simplicity of the interiors in those cars, with the red/orange glow, left me wanting a late 90s/early 00s euro again. I think I nailed it with my 03' C2. My vote is for 996.2.
