Need your opinion

Hi! Been creeping on these forum pages for years now and finally signed up due to the fact I might be buying a 03 4s today or tomorrow but had a few questions. First off the car is $33k with 89k miles great service records up until 2018 and it is currently for sale at a Porsche dealer which is a plus in my eyes to a certain extent. The issues is they do not know if the IMS has been replaced there has been no documents from PO's and they cannot find anything. The salesmen gave me the oh ive never seen an IMS fail thing but after researching this for the past 2 years the IMS on an 03 c4s is something that worries me. They just did a bunch of work and provided me the docs on that and it is pretty much up to date in terms on service at 100k. The car inside and out is clean from the pictures, the inside looks better then many newer cars ive owned. The question here is do I roll the dice on the IMS, they changed the oil a few days ago so even if I pull the filter there wont be much of anything in it. I am going to ask to see if it has been over revved and since its an auto I would "assume" not. I am somewhat of a weekend warrior mechanic, ive always done my own work on basic to intermediate stuff and have the budget to replace the IMS right out of the gate if I wanted to. This will be my DD but I run a home based business and to be honest spend 99% of my time working at home and we have a brand new SUV we use to get groceries and things like that, so this will be a fun weekend toy and something that I take out to do little trips during the week if the misses is gone. It wont be a garage queen but if something needs to be replaced it wont be a big deal to have it sit in the garage for a week or two. this is a car that I have stared at for about 4 years as the wallpaper on my computer, and told my self id buy once i tick a few goals off the list. Any thoughts?

The IMS on a 4S is a single row bearing which has a higher chance of failing. I would replace it with the IMS solution if I were you -- just get it done once and for all.

If you plan to keep it for a long time, just do the Solution . Don’t overthink this one.

price wise does it seem like a decent deal? it seems like prices are all over the board this year

Seems reasonable from a dealer with the way things have been going this year. I'd be more worried about bore scoring than the IMS tbh. One is addressable, the other is expensive. Get it scoped & buy it if it checks out imo.

As an owner of a 03 4s I wish you the best. $33k seems like a very good price if its in as good a shape as the pictures depicted. Immediately do the IMS Solution/clutch/flywheel and put in the UAOS as well. Then drive it like you stole it!!!!

OP - Proceed with cautious optimism and buy the car if it ticks your search criteria. As noted replace IMS and install a UAOS for longevity and peace. Price seems pretty good for a crazy market. Bore scoring is always a worry. Ask the dealer for a bore scope of both piston sides of bores if you commit to buy on condition. You’d cover all your bases for ballpark of $4k and have a beast to drive with all the freakish new amount of free time you’ll discover.

I agree that a bore scope is more important than the IMSB prior to purchase. And if the bores are good, the IMS Solution would be the next logical step. Yes, both of those cost a good deal of money, but it�s all much cheaper than a replacement engine (about $20k).

If you buy this car, leave the IMS in place but replace the IMSB immediately.

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You don�t want him to get the shaft?

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What are you betting the same dork that told the OP he had never seen an IMSB fail will say he has never heard of scored bores on these cars...? OP I hope it works out for you. The C4S is an awesome car.

Ask the dealer if they are willing to replace the IMS or come down on the cost of the car the price to replace it.

My 02 C4S had the original bearing at 99K.

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That will never happen. My local dealer wanted $5500 to change mine. Indy did the solution for $3000.

Assuming you get the car, it's a simple decision. 2k for an IMSB or 25k for a rebuild. I would replace the IMSB. No need to be a hero.

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Oh come on. I�m sure he meant he�d never actually �seen� one with his own eyes, but he�s �heard� of thousands. Semantics, baby! The topper would be if that guy said bore scope was good. So sorry we forgot to use a camera. Oops. And then try to get you to pay for the scope time and oil change. Be like eating strawberry-rhubarb pie without sugar.

If the OP isn't long gone and looking at Honda's by now I'd be surprised.

Funny you say that. The great thing about owning a Porsche is that there is more information than you can possibly digest in one or two threads. But that's the beauty of buying a 20 year old 911. It's clearly outlined what the issues are and clearly defined what needs to be done to address them. But you certainly can choke on the firehose if your not expecting it. Hope he takes his time and understands that he can find a great 996 if he does his homework. Awesome car.

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nope still here

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yeah it will be in the very near future if all goes well tomorrow. Why do half the people on here say IMS and the other IMSB. Those who said IMSB sent me down a rabbit hole for about 20 mins until I realized what was going on lol... thought there was some other issues I did not read about. a

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Yeah, it can be an acronym nightmare. If you haven't already, go to LN Engineering website or YouTube and you can learn about it. The IMS is the intermediate shaft seal, whereas the IMSB is the entire kit including the bearing and seal. LN developed the IMSB retrofit kit and the Solution. I got the retrofit kit when it first came out 10-12 years ago. Only have 56k miles but need to either put another retrofit kit in or go all the way with the solution. Retrofit kit has a limited life whereas the Solution doesn't. Retrofit kit is cheaper and easier to do, but you will eventually need to replace it with a new one. No big deal. ​​​​​​Things you need to replace that are critical. IMSB AOS Water Pump Ignition Coils and spark plus Fuel injectors Sensors None are big ticket items but none are cheap either. If your not mechanically inclined, make sure you find a good Porsche Indy shop. Don't skimp and use a local "European repair" shop. Make sure they specialize in Porsche 996 engines. If you aren't certain what shop to use, ask the forum or get involved with your local PCA and go to local events. You will find many folks that will be happy to point you in the proper direction. Good luck. You will enjoy the 996. Best damn 911 out there.

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Yeah I haven't decided on what kit to go with on the other hand I read that no ima failures have happened after 70k. Seems like one side of the aisle is ims 100% and the other is check oil for shards and drive it. Lots of info to go through. Of the items you listed all but the ims and aos have been recently replaced/serviced so I feel pretty good about it.

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Sounds like you have the complete service history from beginning until 2018, which should tell you... (1) if all regularly scheduled service has been performed at the 15k intervals. (2) what additional service has been performed beyond 15k intervals such as recalls, rear main seal (RMS) replacements due to leaking, the use of the "go-no-go" tool, intermediate shaft seal (IMS) replacements which may have leaked about the same time as the RMS. As a side note, the RMS leak was a big issue in the mid 2000's until Porsche figured out what was causing it. They ended up finding a better seal and developed the "go-no-go" tool to measure the internal alignment of where the crank met the engine. If it was out of alignment by a specific variance, the engine was no-go and they would replace it under warranty. If it was in alignment it was a "go" and they would just replace the seal with the most up to date version. This is why you see some 996 with an engine replacement back in the mid 2000s. To put it simply, if your car was owned by someone who paid close attention to these issues and was serviced by a dealer under the warranty years, there is a pretty good chance that it was extremely well serviced and had many rear main seal and intermediate main seal replacements, not to mention a boatload of oil changes early on, which may very well have helped to promote engine life later on. (3) service records will also show you how many times the ignition coils, spark plugs. Water pump and sensors have been replaced and when. What you don't want is a car that skimped on replacement parts/servicing and IMHO, only had oil changes at 15k increments. Thats only 6 oil changes over nearly 20 years. Crazy stupid. All this may help to facilitate bore scoring which is why you should have a bore scope performed. It will tell you the true condition of your bores. So if servicing and replacement parts are up to expectations, and the bore scope checks out, then it's down to replacing your AOS and IMSB on your dime and time. Check out the UAOS from Porschetek3 who is on RL. You should replace it immediately. The plastic/rubber will fail on your original part and will lead to problems. Your call on the IMSB, but I would say that you would be crazy not to replace it at least with the retro kit. Why chance it for a 2k procedure. Keep us posted on the outcome. I have had my 2002 996 for 19 years and would buy it all over again.

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Yeah it was serviced at at dealer for the first 45k miles from the original owner. One of the things I cannot get an answer on is there are tons of "service performed" on the car facts. Some will list additional info and others will be "service performed" then say wash/detail under them. I am assuming this would include an oil change, why would you take your car to the dealer only to get a wash and if that was the case they wouldn't document it would they? So some people I've read spend about 1-2k a year on maintenence items and some people spend 5-10k regularly those who spend 5-10k a year are you simply replacing items that don't really need replaced or guesstimating what should be done? Granted I'm sure there are some/alot cars that haven't been taken care of and require additional items to get them up to spec but once there I would assume its normal wear and tear items to a certain extent. Also these forums and I mean this in a very polite way can scare the **** out of you when asking about what can happen or what should be done. I am hoping this car doesn't turn out to be a turd/money pit (more then the average one). The car is going to get 5000+ miles a year as it will be our weekend car or smaller vacation car its not going to sit all the time if I buy it I drive it lol.

The cost depends on if you do a lot of the work yourself or if you use a dealership or Porsche Indy. If you do it yourself. You will save 150-350 an hour. I used the dealership under warranty for all warranty items, then developed a relationship with a great Porsche Indy shop that handled all non warranty items that I still use today for everything. it also depends on if you will DE your car or not, because if you do, you will be replacing tires and brakes once or twice a year depending on how fast you are and how many events you do. If it's just street driving, you are looking at between 500 - 1,000 a year for basic servicing. Where the costs come in is if you need to replace worn out parts plus service hours. This is why many of us are suggesting that you see what service has been done so you don't have to pay for 3,000 in parts and another 2,000 in labor, such as IMSB, AOS, Water Pump, Ignition Coils and Plugs, Fuel Injectors and sensors. Once they are done, it's a matter of just replacing the plastic/rubber parts over time as they become brittle and break and then major 15k replacements. The car dealer can give you the major service items and costs. I am a Porsche and Audi guy that tends to keep my cars longer and therefore, over-service them. My Audi's cost more to maintain than my 996. However, where the cost really comes in is when you get pretty jazzed about the car and you decide to do a project or two every year to enhance and upgrade your car. Suspension, software, exhaust, rims, Gt3 seats, roll bar, you get the idea. I try to set an annual budget and then work around that to group the items together as intelligently as possible. As an example, I have an IMSB replacement coming soon, so I will also have the shop look at the clutch and flywheel, RMS and any other item that's tough to get at without dropping the engine. The big cost is the service hours it takes to drop the engine, so instead of paying for it 2 or 3 times, why not do it once and replace everything you can at that time so you don't have to worry about it for a number of years. Having friends that own Ferraris, Astons, McClarens, etc, a Porsche is a he'll of a lot cheaper to service and a he'll of a lot more dependable to own. Try driving your Ferrari to the local track, do a full day of DE sessions at speed, and then drive it home and then take your wife out to dinner. You can do that in a well maintained 996. Good luck in another "exotic" sports car. You may make it to the track, but it probably will not make the drive home. Then you gotta tell your wife that you can't make dinner because your 250k car that you spend 20k a year on just broke down again. As the advertisements say, there is no substitute!

If it helps, send me a pm with your cell and I would be more than happy to answer any questions this am before you go to the dealer. The 996 is a great car. As I said before, I would buy it all over again. Looked at every model from the 964 to the 991, but continue to only want the 996.

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pm sent thanks!

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Glad to hear this, this is similar to what I've been telling my self. I will do all the basic to intermediate work and maybe maybe tackle some bigger issues if they arise (hopefully not) I found a really good mechanic that's about 20 mins away so that's a plus. thanks

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Some of that maintenance is just do it to be preventative on known issues. Once those are done, you can have a couple years maintenance free besides the typical oil change. This also depends on how much it's used, if only a single oil change mileage per year, you'll hardly spend much besides addressing things here and there for peace of mind. Plus with it being a weekend car, you can tackle things on your own, because if it's down for a period of time it won't stop your life and it will give you time to research and watch videos on how to handle certain jobs. There are certain things I won't mess with out of fear of screwing something up, which is where a good Indy comes into play. Like GC said, don't be fearful. Do some due diligence on what you're looking to buy, if maintenance records are there and it's had regular oil changes then I'd say go for it.

In one example, my solenoid failed that runs the hydraulic cam timing (Variocam is what it�s called in the early 996.1 engines; Variocam plus in the later 996.2 engines). That burned a transistor in my DME. I paid $2k to have the solenoid replaced and $770 for the DME repair (sent to Florida ECU Doctors). Then the other solenoid failed 6 month later. So that year was my $5k year. Otherwise, I also spent $2k on a new top one year and did a couple track days (new pads, brake flushes, new tires). In 4.5 years, I�ve spend $16k, but that included an $1800 paint correction and ceramic coating. I usually pay someone to have the work done, which is about 1/2 the cost.

Big thanks to everyone who reached out and glen who gave me a call this morning. I decided to pass on the 4s due to not being able to get a PPI in the near future and the dealership will not hold the car until one is available. I didn't want to risk an issue that could be extemly expensive, really wanted the car and a bit down about it but at the end of the day my gut has never let me down and hopefully it didn't this time. To be clear the dealership was allowing a PPI and would do one themselves or let a 3rd party do it, it just comes down to availability. Thanks again

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Sorry to hear the news. But at the end of the day all you have is your gut instincts. You will find the perfect 996. It's only a matter of time.

Good for you. There are other cars out there. And plenty of sucker buyers that will take that risk, but that�s not you.