43 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHLow miles or Higher miles?
Leading reported evidence
Replace before he got it
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Leading evidence: 'Replace before he got it' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'no bore scoring, there is a pretty good chance' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check bore scoring' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
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Suspected cause
If all the service has been done properly with all the replacement parts including IMS, RMS, AOS, Fuel Injectors, Coils, Spark Plugs, Sensors, constant oil changes, and there is proven to be NO bore scoring, there is a pretty good chance that your engine will last quite awhile longer before you will need a 20-30k rebuild.
wear parts have been replaced, perhaps multiple times
Suggestion or failed attempt
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Identified cause
1
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
It's much more likely the wear parts have been replaced, perhaps multiple times.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
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Suggestion
Low and high mileage 996�s should be checked for bore scoring.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion
PPI with bore scope or worst case oil testing beyond checking for metal certainly helps to identify if there is an issue.
Check signs of imsb degradation, otherwise no need
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
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Suggestion
Oil change every 3000 miles and check for signs of IMSB degradation, otherwise no need to change the bearing until the clutch is needed, which should be
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Suggestion
Both have their ups and downs, later can be more susceptible to bore scoring and has the single row IMSB which is an easy enough repair should you care to do it / have it replaced.
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Suggestion
Oil change every 3000 miles and check for signs of IMSB degradation, otherwise no need to change the bearing until the clutch is needed, which should be
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Oil change every 3000 miles and check for signs of IMSB degradation, otherwise no need to change the bearing until the clutch is needed, which should be
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
But I have serviced the he'll out of the car for nearly 20 years and am obsessive about oil changes, not to mention did all of the preventative things I could do early to prolong engine life.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
no bore scoring, there is a pretty good chance
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Identified cause
1
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
If all the service has been done properly with all the replacement parts including IMS, RMS, AOS, Fuel Injectors, Coils, Spark Plugs, Sensors, constant oil changes, and there is proven to be NO bore scoring, there is a pretty good chance that your engine will last quite awhile longer before you will need a 20-30k rebuild.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
43 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T161109Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Long-time Porsche window shopper, but getting more serious about a 996.
Question.... Would it be better to target a lower mileage vehicle and pay more up front, or go with a higher mileage vehicle that's less expensive? A lower mileage vehicle may not have had the critical maintenance performed (IMS/RMS), but the same could be true of a high-mileage vehicle. If I get a high-mileage vehicle, would I be better served to just drive it until something goes wrong (still doing regular maintenance, of course), or just go ahead and perhaps have the engine rebuilt to get a good start. With some of the prices I've seen for high-mileage 996's, there'd still be plenty in the piggy bank to fund an engine rebuild.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
Mike
Go for the higher mileage then fully appreciate the eventual 4.0 build!
either way take the prospect to a shop and have them perform a cylinder bore scope from the the bottom via sump plate (opposed to top side via spark plugs). Low and high mileage 996�s should be checked for bore scoring. It�s the most costly issue these days.
Welcome to the awesome world of the 996!
High or low mileage isn't as important as the service history of the car and performing a PPI including checking for bore scoring with a scope.
If the seller has taken good care of the car, he/she will have the service records and you can see how many rear main seals were replaced, intermediate shaft seals, intermediate shaft bearings, AOS, water pump, rubber/plastic parts under the hood, etc, as well as how often the oil was changed and when, as well as what oil was used.
These are critical items that if they haven't been taken care of previously, regardless of the miles, can and will create problems and can lead to the need for a 20-30k engine rebuild sooner than later. A rebuild is inevitable with a 20 year old engine. But many of us would like to keep the engine running in top shape, so we can choose what we want for a rebuild and when; instead of a surprise implosion before we are ready.
I have had my 02 C2 for 19 years and am doing a project every year to replace worn parts with new so I can enjoy it for another 20 years. It's not the cost to buy the car, it's the cost to keep your classic Porsche running in top form.
Hope this helps.
Edit Add: forgot to mention Fuel Injectors, Ignition Coils, and sensors, as other things that you need to look for in the service records as to have been replaced.
I've bought 3 ultra low mile , one a 20 yr old 996, a 10 yr old 85 turbo and and a 4 yr old 89 targa. zero issues other than normal maintenance. Also had a new 04 996 for 16 yrs with original imsb and zero issues other than oil change. PPI is your friend as stated above.
Sorry to hijack thread, I am in the same situation....how much should I be concerned about bore scoring in a 2003 C2 with 31k miles? PPI did not perform compression test or bore score check, but he did say no metal in oil at all. This PPI shop I hired is a Porsche specialist. Should I have a second PPI at a different shop just for bore score and compression?
The reason I ask is that
There are a lot of things that can cause bore scoring of which you can search RL on the topic. FSI and LN engineering have done a lot of videos on the topic. Such as high ethanol content gas, garage queens that are not properly driven but instead started, idled, moved and then parked again. Not replacing Ignition Coils, fuel injectors, sensors. Never changing the oil. Porsche says 15k miles which is ill advised imho. So you may only have 2 oil changes in 20 years. Not good for oil or engine. The more oil changes the better. Not doing the Porsche service schedule with replacements parts, especially after 20 years.
PPI with bore scope or worst case oil testing beyond checking for metal certainly helps to identify if there is an issue. You get the idea. Service records will tell you how well cared it has been. Remember, most people are cheap, especially with car service, and 20 year old garage queens can very well be underserviced and at risk without knowing it.
Not saying any of this to scare you. I drive mine around town and have tracked it since 2004. Never had any engine problems, nor show any bore scoring issues. But I have serviced the he'll out of the car for nearly 20 years and am obsessive about oil changes, not to mention did all of the preventative things I could do early to prolong engine life. It's an awesome car that I will never get rid of.
As I said earlier, it's not the cost to buy the car that is expensive, even with rising prices. It's the cost of maintaining the car so it's in top shape mechanically. Most owners have failed regardless of high or low mileage.
It does have original ignition coils and plugs. Or at least the "old style" coil packs, which led PPI to believe they are both original parts. At 31k miles, that's less than 3k per year since new.
If I can't obtain service history, should I opt for getting bore scope checked ? Should I do it anyway for peace of mind? I think so. They also noted oil was in good shape, not super dark. He said that if there were scored cylinders bores, there would be other signs or symptoms in which he would see? It is my understanding this is NOT the case, and just like IMS, there's no way to check without getting inside?
Look at it this way. If all the service has been done properly with all the replacement parts including IMS, RMS, AOS, Fuel Injectors, Coils, Spark Plugs, Sensors, constant oil changes, and there is proven to be NO bore scoring, there is a pretty good chance that your engine will last quite awhile longer before you will need a 20-30k rebuild.
If none of these things have been done, and it turns out you have bore scoring, you will need to spend 20-30k sooner for a rebuild.
Regardless, it's a 20 year old car and a rebuild will eventually need to be done. It may be next year or it may be in 7 more years. Just factor that into your planning. The good news is that they aren't making any more 996s. Certainly helps with future prices and your willingness to spend the money servicing the car in the future.
I would buy mine all over again, for the same price I paid in 2002. Plus put all of the money into servicing it all over again. Why, because it's an awesome car.
Edit Add: Water pump replacement is critical.
I watched a Jay Leno You Tube episode last night and he was asked if he preferred low mileage cars and he replied that oil is like blood and it needs to be circulating to keep the car in good health - he likes higher mileage cars that show regular use.
Also, I may add that the shop I used for PPI, was phenomenal, and I would certainly use them again. But the discrepancy here is in the fact that my local shop says bore check and compression test are crucial, and the PPI shop I used, says he rarely sees compression or bore scoring without any accompanying signs, and kind of made it like its OK not to check.
One data point: The local Porsche expert mechanic where I live is of the opinion with the 1999 996 that you should get the
lowest mileage car you could find
that passes a stringent PPI. Also, don't track it or you will tear it apart. Drive it in the 3-5K rage with occasional fun jumps to 6000'ish. Oil change every 3000 miles and check for signs of IMSB degradation, otherwise no need to change the bearing until the clutch is needed, which should be
way down the road
on a properly driven and maintained car.
Chose to follow his advice. Got mine Jan 2021, 27.5K miles, good records, mature previous owner, Only 200 stage 1 revs, maintained for years by Porsche specialists High-Tec Auto, California car all its life, extensive PPI - passed with flying colors. $29K, semi special color - Glacier White. So far has worked out great..
In my book maintenance records over low miles any day. Typically, cars that have been driven hard and often, will have a much better maintenance schedule and will address issues that come with usage, which is normal. Not too long ago we had someone post about their low mile car with an oil leak after moving the car out of storage after 6 months....go figure. PPI the car, drive it and enjoy. BTW, these cars make awesome road trip machines! I'm currently doing DC -> Hudson NY area -> CT -> Philly -> DC and will probably rack up about 1000 miles in under 2 weeks. Car has been an absolute joy from highways to country backroads to forrest roads.
Thanks for all the feedback!
Found an '01 C2 with 231K miles. Gentleman has owned it for 4 years and has all his maintenance records, but not a lot from previous owners. IMS was supposedly replaced before he got it. Car is current owner's DD, so he's put quite a few miles on it in 4 years (~ 91K). Has new tires and brakes, and looks good cosmetically. Has 2 sets of the turbo-twist rims (on car and spare). He said the engine has a little seepage, but nothing that drips onto the ground.
The price is right, but haven't decided if it's worth taking a chance on it. Who knows, maybe the owner is a member here and will recognize his car
Mike
Unless you are a gifted engine builder, you are going to have to factor in 20-30k for a rebuild sooner than later if it hasn't already been done. Nothing wrong with that if you get it for the right price. Keep in the back of your mind that a car with as many miles as it has, will have wear and tear on everything. Tough to even estimate in aggregate what those costs will be and when. Perfect project for someone mechanically gifted.
He's asking $10K. As GC996 said,
everything
has 231K miles on it, not just the engine.
Also found a very nice '01 cabriolet with 39K miles. Asking price is $33K.
Definitely something to keep in mind but the car has been driven often and sounds like decently maintained which is a good thing. Far better than as if it was sitting with this kind of mileage. There is a good thread with high mileage thread here with one owner with way past 400k miles on an original motor. $10k seems like a great price if it's in decent cosmetic price and the interior is not beat up. As a part of the PPI I'd ask to evaluate the suspension components as well if you end up considering the car. At this price, even with an engine rebuild at some point it would be a good deal I think.
The 10k seems attractive..but it depends on what you plan to do with it…or keep it long term.
either way, it’s a Porsche and they all become a bit of a money pit over time..according to my wife..lol
Pay $10k and drive the sh** out of it. Do routine maintenance and even if the engine blows, u can sell it as a roller for $5k. You will get more than $5k worth of enjoyment and you might have something that even goes for another 50k miles, it's made it this far!
The 2 sets of rims are worth $1k-2k alone.
Not
everything
on the car has 231k unless it has never been maintained. It's much more likely the wear parts have been replaced, perhaps multiple times. If it's cosmetically in acceptable shape I would think it's worth considering. You can hardly get a Corolla for $10k these days.
Thanks for all the great feedback and advice! I knew there was a good reason I joined this site
I'd really like to get a red/white/black vehicle, with beige interior. Don't see very many of those. I see a LOT of black and silver vehicles with either black or grey interior.
If anybody has a red/beige 996 coupe they're ready to sell, let me know
Mike
It 'looks" fine and they probably put a significant amount into it, but it's only the engine that has any real value, the body comes free. Thus you are back to a 147k mile engine on a car that suffered flood damage at some point. A branded titled, 147k mile TIP, no thanks.
You're going to get answers on both sides. Some of us purchased lower mileage examples, but made sure the maintenance history was documented. Also need to consider whether you want an early build (3.4L, cable throttle, etc.) or a later 3.6L. Both have their ups and downs, later can be more susceptible to bore scoring and has the single row IMSB which is an easy enough repair should you care to do it / have it replaced. The days of cheap low mileage cars I think is out the window, there's deals to be had so long as you look at sources outside of BAT. Prices are going up so it depends on how much you want to spend that will determine what options would be available. I wouldn't be afraid of a higher mileage car (~75/100k mi) if the price is right and the maintenance is documented. Just be smart about your decision and don't let a car pull you in if something seems fishy. Could also get something on the premise of having the engine rebuilt regardless, but some shops have a year or two waiting line in some cases (albeit definitely worth it and would love to go this route on a roller or something myself). Also it doesn't hurt to stretch your searching distance, taking a long road trip to pick up a 996 is hardly a bad way to spend a weekend.
I've been looking Nationwide, not just locally. There are quite a few 996's on the market, just haven't found what I'm looking for. I want a tiptronic, plus the color combo I'd like either doesn't seem to be popular, or the folks that have it don't want to give it up.
