need opinions on 04 C4S with 26k i found.

I found a 2004 C4S 6spd blk/blk at the local Porsche dealership and am looking to buy it. The car on the outside looks to be in good shape with just a few needed touch ups. The dealership unfortunately has no service records and know very little about it other than a old man traded it in. I went and drove it yesterday and seems to run very well and extremely tight They are asking $41,300 and was wondering you all opinions on price based on limited service history and the fact it will need the IMS bearing and full base line service. Thanks for any input you can provide. Here is the link. Blaine http://www.porscheofsanantonio.com/u...3f2ad23456.htm

$41,000 will get you a pretty nice 996TT, granted with more than 26k miles, but not that many more. Of course, you are buying from a Porsche dealer, so figure extra $$ for that privilege. I would think more like $35k.

thats what I was thinking too. I was going to offer 35000 to buy it. thanks BLAINE

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If the car was traded in at the dealer the dealer should know -- at least have handy -- the previous owner's name. Ask if it will contact the owner -- keeping his name private of course -- and ask if he can share any servicing details? Where he had the car serviced? Last services? Etc. If you get no help in this quest then the car likely had no servicing. Also, what you can try is get a CarFax report for the car and note where the car spent some time. Then call around to Porsche dealers in the area and with the car's VIN see if you can learn what if any servicing the car may have received at the dealer. Avoid trying to learn anything about the previous owner. Some dealers clam up due to privacy concerns. If you learn the car wasn't serviced at a dealer then it was either serviced at an indy or it wasn't serviced -- unless the "old man" did his own servicing. Up to you if you want to try calling some of the larger indy shops in area to try to lean if the car was serviced at any of these shops. If you can't learn of any service history I would be a bit leery of the car. However, that the engine still feels tight is a good sign, provided you drove the car long enough to get the engine fully up to operating temperature and kept it there a while. I'd also have a PPI done. I'd to see the car in the air and closely examine its engine/running gear and all hoses/fittings/lines/seals/gaskets/etc for any leak sign. Wonder what oil the engine has? Some owners have been known to run extremely thick oil and this can be done with a car traded in to mask a noisy engine. Absent any service records, you should budget for oil/filter service, plugs (and possibly coils depending upon the originals' condition), brake fluid/clutch fluid flush/bleed, and I'd like to toss in a coolant drain and refill with fresh coolant. If tires are wearing evenly then no need for an alignment, perhaps. Be sure you check the age of the tires. Porsche considered tires for these cars past their change by date at 6 years of age. If new tires are needed then I'd have a full/proper alignment done just to get the car to a known good alignment state. Check the radiator ducts for trash and if you spot some budget to have the bumper cover removed and the ducts thoroughly cleaned. If the radiator ducts are full of trash so likely are the body water drains. However, check these regardless of the condition of the radiator ducts. After you have the ducts cleaned out start setting aside money to pay for new radiators/condensers at some point. As for price I think I'm on safe ground stating it is high. I've never known a dealer yet that wasn't optimistic about the price of a car it had for sale. Goes with the territory. Remember: Price is not fact only an opinion. The listed price is just the dealer's opinion. You are entitled to (ideally) based on research to develop your own opinion. My usual advice is the dealer probably has no more in the car than low wholesale and the price for which the car will sell for therefore is somewhere between low wholesale or however low the seller is willing to go to however high you are willing to go.

Thank you for the extensive reply. I plan to offer them 35000 pending a good PPI with leak down and compression numbers. As far as trying to dig up service records I will see if they can call the previous owner for any information he can provide as to up to date service. As far as a full bearing service and base line for fluids do you think I should allocate about 2500-3000?? thanks Blaine

Looking at the pics, this car has the X51 power kit AND the sport exhaust... I would say the dealer price is in the right ballpark especially with only 26k miles!!! Regardless, do a PPI. Also, the Porsche dealer can always print out the service records assuming it was performed at any Porsche dealer. They will have you black out the names of previous owners.

Hope this helps you out somewhat http://www.vindecoderz.com/EN/check-...AA29944S621198 Every thing correct except it says the car is a convertible.... Maybe the dealer put in the wrong Vin Number on the advert...

$41K seems a bit high, but it is very low mileage and has the X51 power kit. I'd suggest a thorough independent PPI (will probably cost you $400 to $600, but worth it). Maintenance costs on these cars can be very high. As for a full service, with all fluids, plugs and coils, IMSB, clutch kit - probably about $4K.

Nice find. Inspect it and buy it. Rarely see x51 c4s. Good luck

ok thank for all the info guys. I had no idea it was a X51 package. That funny you mention that because all the other one I'm seeing don't have that exhaust option. What else comes with the X51 package? I will double check the VIN number on the car. Should it come up as a convertible?? Weird:/ I can see why everyone loves this forum. Sounds like a great group of knowledgeable guys. In reference to price clean trade on this thing with the few exterior flaws it has would have to be 32-33. Any Porsche dealers agree?? I will start the bidding at 35 and let y'all know where it goes . Blaine

Do you track your C4S?? If so what are thoughts? Blaine

I was also going to ask if any of y'all know a good independent mechanic in the San Antonio area? thank you Blaine

Looking for a black one in mint condition. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me.

Get the CARFAX. Offer $35ish. Got mine with about 45k miles(2003) in the upper 30's. Could have found one in the lower thirties, but I wanted blue with gray, and it had a good maintenance history. The dealer was asking around 40k for mine. Good luck!

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The X51 is on the rare side. I would be surprised if he gets it for $35k with 26k miles. But it won't hurt to try!

The dealer will not do 35 on it but will let me know there bottom line and I will make my decision. What is included in the X51 pkg anyway? thank you Blaine

In the long run, $1-2000 doesn't really matter that much. I'm always fascinated by how much time and effort some of us will put into finding the very best price, saving perhaps that amount; at a cost of perhaps $50 per hour (and many of us of course make more at whatever we happen to do), one ends up spending 2-3x as much, on an hourly cost basis. Mind you, nobody should get robbed by a dealer, and it's galling to see a dealer for example give a seller a lowball price because "That's not a very popular color", and then turn around and gold-plate the price tag because "That's a VERY rare, hard color to find!" But, it's a business just like any other. If we all sold widgets for what it cost us to make them or buy them, there'd be nothing left, would there? If it's the right one for you, it's right at $36k, or $39k as well. Good luck.

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What's included? 345 underrated horsepower... If you want more info than that, "search" is your friend...

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X51....blk n blk, go for it!

The X51 is a desirable option for many and adds value to the car. If you like it just go for it. They are awesome cars!

I'd join PCA and start looking for a turbo for that money.

Thanks for all the great replys. I have a update. I found all the service records to the car and it was all done locally here at San Antonio Porsche. Everything from the IMS bearing service back in 08 with the ceramic bearing, from regular oil changes and all the different service intervals including plugs, transmission fluid, belts. etc. The dealer came down to $38,300 so if I can move the needle to $37000 I'm going to pull the trigger pending a good PPI. Ill keep y'all posted. Look forward to getting to know some of y'all. Blaine

x51 is 345hp up from 320. includes different pistons, uprated cams, modified cylinder heads, different inlet and exhaust manifolds, new programming.

i had no idea the motor was that different on the X51 pkg with the pistons,upgraded cams and cylinder heads?? thanks

Beautiful car! Love WB cars, but I would agree that you could get a nice turbo for that money. Turbo = No IMSB but does come with a different set of fairly common issues, all easily addressed! Good luck!

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No way he could get a turbo for that price with only 26k miles... So did you buy it?

[QUOTE=theclutch;12347901]No way he could get a turbo for that price with only 26k miles... "Nice Turbo" not 26k mile turbo Don't know if the OP is specifically looking for sub 30k mile cars, but I bet he could get a Turbo with under 40-45k for that money! But no need to argue, because when it is all said and done the OP will be behind the wheel of a 911 of some trim, and that is all that matters

Buy it. At 37-39k, you're in a great range for an IMS-corrected, low mileage X51-optioned car. Yes, you could have a Turbo for 40ish. A tired one. With all the advantages and DISadvantages. You certainly don't need my, nor our collective, approval. But you've got mine, anyway. Good luck, and post pictures after you take ownership.

do it!

I am going by today to pull the trigger I think. If they take 36500 for it im in!! How can you tell visually that the car is a X-51 anyway?? Is it the exhaust tips on the car that give it away?? thanks Blaine

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One way is to look at the intake runners and see if they're black plastic or cast aluminum. X51 should be cast aluminum intake manifold. There are a few other ways but I feel this is the easiest to spot. Cast Aluminum Intake of X51 Black Plastic Intake of Standard

Thanks a lot for that reply. It has the cast runners! thanks again!! Blaine

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Yes, an X51, with those miles and the good maintenance records you've found is worth it in my eyes. Sure Turbos are nice, but I think this car will fit your needs nicely. With turbo you'll have slightly higher running cost, insurance etc, just from what I've researched. I chose my C4S for those reasons, but either way you'll be driving a great P-car. Keep us posted!

Look at the sticker with the option codes. That will tell you for sure.

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You didn't buy it, or did you?

not yet however I think they might be willing to take 35000 for it. I am finding some Turbos that are very tempting. Blaine

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If you offered $36500 and they didn't take it, what makes you believe they will take $35k? Not trying to give you a hard time. Either way, good luck in your search. $35k for X51+exhaust+26k miles would be a steal. But I doubt they'd sell it for that.

Since it has the ultra rare X51, $38k for this C4S is fair from a P dealer. I would not even go back and forth if I was serious on this car. Looks like it's still available..

Yes. At some point, the difference between negotiating and just d**king around becomes indistinguishable. It is the right car or it is not the right car. Nobody ever remembers the 'extra' $1000 they paid for a car. They just remember the car.

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+1

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+2 Now that you guys mentioned it, it was odd that the OP offered $36,500 (presumably rejected by the dealer) and then went back to $35,000... and then he says he's eyeing turbos now... It didn't make sense to me as the turbo he'd be looking at for the same price point would have some serious miles on it or serious issues. OR, as you say, he could just be on the "d**king" around part. I don't care either way as no harm no foul. But thought that the whole thing didn't add up.