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YOUR RESEARCHWhat to look for in a shop for a M96 rebuild?
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Install (that's all he does)
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I'm going the unpopular route (on this forum anyway) and having steel sleeves installed (that's all he does).
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I just went through a rebuild and after they started, they found out their lease wasn't getting renewed after 3/31.
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But let's say you don't yet need a rebuild immediately, then you are in an interesting position to slowly replace bolt-on parts with news parts which can be used after the rebuild.
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You get the idea, whatever you replace now can most likely be used later after the rebuild.
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Suggestion
If you haven't already, be sure to check with your local PCA chapter.
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Suggestion
As an example, you can replace the AOS with the UAOS, radiators and hoses, sump pan with a deep sump or UIDS, IMS with a solution on retro kit, Oem suspension with coilovers, exhaust, etc.
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I finally decided it's time to get my 996.2 engine rebuilt. While not verified, it has all the signs of bore scoring. I have thought long and hard about doing this myself, but I'd spend a fortune on the tools/lifts/engine stands/etc... before even getting to the engine itself.
I have compiled a list of about 13 shops in the area (many found recommended on the regional forums here). I want to contact each one to get a better understanding about how they approach the rebuild. Aside from labor rates and availability, what types of questions should I be asking?
Don't you think one of the first things to ask of these shops is whether they agree with your diagnosis? It is always good to suppress one's ego when approaching 'experts" for an opinion.
So truthfully, I'd check to confirm your diagnosis, and get it checked at a couple of different shops.
Ask for references for previous builds they've done so you can contact those customers.
Source: Someone who picked the wrong shop first, then had the motor rebuilt a second time. Do it once, and do it right.
As far as diagnosis goes, I do plan on verifying with the shop I choose. Having said that, my car literally spits oil out of the driver's side tail pipe, and drinks over a quart under 500 miles. Not to mention the ticking on the passenger side bank. Everything I've read and watched points to bore scoring. Anyway, thanks for the advice and keep them rolling in. I'll update this thread on my progress.
Sorry to hear Merlot. What do you want in a rebuild? What are you looking for and what are you going to use the car for? Street, track, both? Are you going to keep it for the long-term or get rid of it once it's rebuilt?
I'm most certainly keeping the car, especially after shelling out the cash for a rebuild. I just love it. I plan to drive mostly street, but want the ability to do a few track days. I'm happy with stock power, but if it's not much more I'd go to 3.8. I have not ruled out an LS swap either. If I go that route I'll just send the car to
CPE. But I'm currently leaning towards keeping it all Porsche.
If you haven't already, be sure to check with your local PCA chapter. They will know the shops in your area that have a good reputation for various types of work.
I think broad-stroke questions for the builder are:
Where do you send the block to get re-sleeved? (If you want\prefer LN Nickies you should say this up front.)
Which parts do you re-use, and which do you replace?
How many M96 engines have you rebuilt in the past?
meh u r 20min from me
i would suggest Slone at SSI in Baltimore
https://ssi-auto-motorsports.business.site/
they build and support many race and hpde cars. A very down to earth and realistic view on building these motors. He has access to the same platers for nicosil as lme, actually he has been using them longer then lne. If i were gonna pay for a rebuild he would have gone with him.
If I were in your shoes, the question I would be asking would be directed at my parts guy Mac at the dealer and it would be "what's the best deal you can cut me on a short block ?". You've got bore scoring, you need a new bottom end, the heads you can work dependent on budget.
As to the LS swap - Tyler makes nice looking parts, his in-house builds I am not convinced on, at least I'm not convinced for what I would use the car for, I don't really have any experience on his street car builds which it seems his work is mostly geared to.
If I was not going to rebuild the bottom end myself (which I wouldn't) I think if you can secure a factory short block at around the $9K number, that would be the route I would go. I think the factory motors are reliable, a known commodity and inexpensive compared to a performance shop full on rebuild. ****, if you're 20 min from
@De Jeeper
, I'll speak for him - if you bring him a short block and your heads, he'll help you get the thing back together... and if he complains, I'll throw in a 30 rack to the cause, that will grease the skids for ya.
Im sure i can figure out assembling a 3.6... the 3.4 top end wasnt that hard. Also food is a good motivstion. The 3.4 at ssi last year was $17k for a basic rebuilt, probably another $2-3k in little stuff. U got all kinds of decisions to make.
Ask them when their lease expires
I just went through a rebuild and after they started, they found out their lease wasn't getting renewed after 3/31. The engine was done in plenty of time but didn't give enough time for an elective LN re-sleeve.
From the comments above it sounds like you have several good choices in your area. I chose mine here in southern California because they specialized in Porsche rebuilds, the guy was factory trained, has been working on Porsche engines for 20 years and didn't have a long backlog. I couldn't find anything negative about them but to be honest, I didn't find as many experiences as I'd like. I didn't want a Porsche indy that didn't do a lot of rebuilds and would leave the car sitting outside while they were working on the engine.
A short block might be a good option for you since your bores are shot. My rebuild came to $19K out the door but LN Nickies would have cost $6K more. The last short block I saw in this forum cost the guy around $16K for the engine itself without labor, head work and other "while you're in there" stuff.
I bought my car as a roller and rebuilt my own M96 for my 997, going from 3.6 to 3.8 along the way. I took my time, found a good local machine shop, and found a very generous fellow forum member who had a few tools and had taken the Raby course.
It was not a terribly difficult job, but it is fraught with peril, as the stakes are quite high - a simple mistake and grenade you back to zero. I do not have a tremendous amount of experience in engine building, but I have some good skills, good tools, and a good, clean place to work.
This is not a job for the meek, but it can be done. I'm three years and (only) 3k miles past my rebuild, but I drive this car like it should be driven, and I have grown very confident in the quality of the engine.
Not sure if that's helpful. Good luck.
I have a 997 that spitted out oil at the tail pipes and I knew I had a problem. I took it to my Indy who verified I had bore scoring. The engine was rebuilt, but every step of the way I kept upgrading at a large cost. I stopped keeping track of the cost but I am certain it is over $40k. It is a super nice rebuild, but not sure if I would go this route again. I love the car and plan on keeping it for a long time, That said are there other options to keep the cost down that you should consider?
When I started out my plan was to keep the rebuild around $20k but it quickly went beyond $40K.
Sorry for you situation and wish you the best of luck
I would recommend also going the full meal deal. Pay once, cry once. For my 2001, I just went with a new shortblock, and bored out to 3.8, and I've been very happy with the result. I was able to get the shortblock for 6k USD from Porsche.
-Matt
There is a huge difference between direct plating a block and what we do with our Nickies sleeves. If you don't know the difference, might want to research that first. Yes, we do use Millennium (since before 2002 - they were founded in 1997) as well as other coaters for the cylinder bores, but one of the differences is what we do before and after that differentiates us from everyone else.
If bore scoring is your issue, then whether the shop will go with LN engineering Nickies was my first question all the way from Australia. I was lucky to get a case acceptable to LN from a US forum member. I want 3.4 to 3.8 LN cylinders. From there for me it's more personal. There are a range of IMS solutions, one shop I called was EPS or go away, so I went. I found a rural shop Autowerk Wyong which is fairly country Australia, with good knowledge that accepted there are many IMS fixes but would roll with me choosing the LN plain bearing. More important was customer service, no primmadona mechanics, and engaging with me. This shop is 6 hours from where I live. They would at least name a ball park figure, many shops wanted an open ended approach. They took calls on other problems I had with my suspension without fee. I have a good vibe about a family Porsche focused business over a big name. Tech questions were handled politely and with a sense of fun. Big shops, primmadonna mechanics, and no naming of a money ball park helped my choice, as well as good raps from Porsche forums Australia and google reviews. LN have done my nickies, time will tell. But that was my approach for an elective 3.4 to 3.8 for a car that passed its PPI on engine. Not on suspension other issues.
I compiled a nice list of about 15 shops (and may add more). Next week I'll start making some phone calls to narrow down the selection. In the meantime, I'm going to change the plugs, replace tubes(I think one is cracked as I got a misfire on cylinder 1 after washing it), and do some other maintenance items. Despite the bore scoring, she runs strong.
You must be new here 😃
Aside from it's appetite for oil and the constant clanking as the pistons rock in the bores, it's this forum that's got me worried it's gonna blow evey time i drive it. 😉
FWIW, it's worth it to (1) test your oil and (2) get your bores scoped. It may be minor scoring, major scoring, or even no scoring. You don't know until you look at it. Once you know, you can plan your strategy of mitigation or rebuild.
The two procedures listed above will also give you an idea of how much time you have until you may need a rebuild. As mentioned, you may not.
Yep, all of us will need a rebuild some day, either because we have scoring that will eventually deteriorate or we just want a fresh rebuild for the next 20 years of enjoying the car.
But let's say you don't yet need a rebuild immediately, then you are in an interesting position to slowly replace bolt-on parts with news parts which can be used after the rebuild. As an example, you can replace the AOS with the UAOS, radiators and hoses, sump pan with a deep sump or UIDS, IMS with a solution on retro kit, Oem suspension with coilovers, exhaust, etc. You get the idea, whatever you replace now can most likely be used later after the rebuild. The key is don't waste money if you don't have too, while taking your time in determining what you want to do with a rebuild and by which firm.
I am going thru the same exercise. I do not have borescoring and my car is in great shape. But I do want to rebuild my engine in the next couple of years for more power, internal enhancements for oil and water flow and cooling, as well as dependability on the street and track for the next 20 years of ownership. So instead of an immediate rebuild, I am replacing key parts that ultimately need a refresh or upgrade so by the time I am ready for a rebuild, everything else has been replaced.
Obviously the condition of your bores will dictate, but hopefully this info helps in the process.
The most important thing to think about these days, if you are considering the rebuild of your engine, is if the person rebuilding is using OEM Porsche parts and has the parts readily available. The parts for our cars are becoming more and more scarce, more and more shops are either having trouble locating parts in the US and are getting them direct from Europe. Also people are noticing that no new parts for our cars have been manufactured since the pandemic started in 2020. Also, we are not sure if there were parts on the boat that caught fire transporting cars from Europe? Do your research!
Hey! I rebuild my 987 engine about 5 years ago and ended up buying ALL of the tools. I'm actually trying to sell the tools now, for pennies on the dollar, so someone can at least use them. Old forum thread and videos.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...aS6vA1Tzha0G2c
https://www.planet-9.com/threads/eng...uestion.86847/
Please let me know if you are interested. I'm hoping to find a new home for them
-Nick
OH, you have too few messages to PM. I'm in 32034 US postal code. If you're not a scammer, and I don't have any reason at this point to think you are, what would my shipping be and what would be your preferred form of payment. I'm at a point on my car where I'm deciding between trying to do it myself or pay Raby to do it and wait 2 years.
not a spammer
i promise. If you look at the links I put there its my rebuild forum link and all the youtube videos from my project many years ago. It was on the planet-9 forum, but it's mostly inactive forum now.
you can email or text me.
[email removed]
[phone removed]
If you�re 15 minutes from the Del Memorial Bridge, add Tom @ Brandywine Motorwerks in Newark, DE to your list. He rebuilds M96 motors pretty frequently as he supports a bunch of 986/996 track and race cars. At least give him a call
That's a good question to ask these days, "can you even get all the parts for the rebuild?"
I wouldn't start the rebuild without all the parts on-hand except for the piston, which you'll be able to get from LN.
I'd hate to start a rebuild only to find out you'll have to wait indefinitely because main bearings, or a gasket in no longer available.
For sure I would be OK to sell the faultless too seperate. I'm not sure if you can DM me as I don't have many posts, but you can text me at [phone removed]
Chers. Nick
So I figured I'd post an update here as I finally found time to call a number of shops. I'm pretty much settled on Bodymotion in Ocean Twp. NJ. I'm scheduled to drop off my car there in July. Once there, the engine will be torn down and I'll go over my options with the owner/builder Mike. He's a Certified Porsche Master Tech with over 30 years of experience. He's built a number of these engines (over 150 in the last 15 years) for street and racing and seems quite knowledgeable. He mentioned he has some tricks to keep the engine from oil starvation which has been proven with his race winning engines. Once I decide which route I'll go (3.6 or larger), he will document everything with pictures. I cannot wait to drive this car on street and track with confidence!
As an opener to qualify a shop, tell them you think you have blown a head gasket and want to know what it will cost. If they give you a quote for that repair, walk away. You want to be told that blown head gaskets are rarer than hen�s teeth on these engines.
If they pass that test, ask what parts you can reuse with your rebuild. If it includes injectors, MAF, and O2 sensors, walk away.
Update #1
Spoke to builder and they have scoped the engine. #5 & #6 are badly scored. Next step will be tear down and pics to document the process, which he expects to happen in a few weeks.
Best of luck with the build! These really are very special and wonderful cars once they�ve had the issues addressed and you can just enjoy them for what they are and do best.
Have they given you a timeline for the build? Also, specs/pricing? Just wondering what the costs, and available options are compared to shipping it out?
Well, things are backed up as he's working on 2 other 996s which had their engines grenade, so it won't be a few weeks until they can start the tear down. As for prices, if everything looks good, we are starting in the 20s. I plan to go for reliability first, and power second (3.8) if the budget isn't too badly blown. I'm going the unpopular route (on this forum anyway) and having steel sleeves installed (that's all he does). He's done over 150 of them and hasn't had one issue, so it's sounds like he knows how to properly install them. He also has his own oil pickup solution he developed from racing the M96 equipped cars, so that should not be an issue if I do the occasional track day. I also plan to keep using my existing EPS IMS bearing as well. This shop is a PCA member and seems to be pretty active in their region, so I have complete confidence everything will be done right.
